Why Are We Settling For Second Best
HanzGrub3r
Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
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Example: XP-Cagey's Tools Expanding The NS Level-Design Team, Pushed the game and engine to its limit.
On another note, theres only so many 'original' things you can do with a set sci-fi environment with very specific map requirements, it doesn't surprise me that we aren't seeing anything particularly new.
"COME GET SOME TEABAGS!" *bang**bang*
The truth is that most don't so therefore it is seen by many mappers including myself as a waste of time to write anything more than a sentence or 2 regauding this.
Players care about the map first and your nice little historical points of reference regauding a backstory later if they are bored, drunk, or have no life.
Avitar, you don't need to have a written story in the map info to make a story with a map. The old bast had a story without needing words; you came off a landing ship and explored the depths of a research station... you had to pass an airlock to get out of your spaceship landing area... there was atmosphere there that was more than atmosphere, it was storytelling. Newer maps, including some officials, seem to be just rooms strung together; spaceship design often seems to be made to accomodate infestation before it arrived (!). In fact, if I was a good enough mapper, I'd try the following project: map a complete spaceship, with working rooms and everything; and THEN infest it. It would make perfect sense, and sealing off rooms for gameplay would be easy cheese. Of course, it'd be a long project, but a good learning experience overall. All in all, that was dumb.
When I make a level, I try and visualise different atmopsheres and personalities for every room, so each room does not have the same aura and so doesn't end up being the same all the way through. It's one thing to come up with a style that looks good, but its another to have that style twist and change throughout the map - imagine knowing a person who was in the same mood all the time; even if they are likable in that mood, you'll eventually find their presence rather annoying.
Anyway, I'm getting that feeling I'm starting to talk mecrab so I'll end there, but I hope some people at least are following what I'm getting at.
I'm not saying that every NS map being made now has this problem, I'm just trying to fleshen out what Hans is getting at in my own way.
Soul baby!
on a side note merkaba, the old hera was my favourite map, i feel all the recent changes hav lost the spirit of the original <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
again, its all a matter of preference, you said yourself your not a great mapper. Well, then, you should be the one taking advice from the ones who do know what they are doing. Cause, simply, most ppl are already doing what you oh so kindly suggested.
You also have to remember, this is an mp game. With multiplayer, you can't get too in depth before you start hindering gameplay and such. Mp has to be kept as simple as possible.
Also, none of us really care how long you have been here. If you have a good idea, fine, most of us listen. But you sound like one of the guys that hang around the S/I forum a lot... Most of us have been here from the beginning, and mapping very well since, includin myself. So, in that sense, you are the new guy. You can't walk in and expect everyone to take every word you say, you need to prove yourself not to be an idiot first.
It's just having an idea of what you want to create beforehand. You don't need a backstory for the map in order to do that...
It's just having an idea of what you want to create beforehand. You don't need a backstory for the map in order to do that...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly did help me though. I had no idea how I wanted my map to look - no layout, no concepts or anything, I just built as I went. Now, it might not have been the actual backstory that I used when building the rooms since I only thought "what purpose does this room have." However, I'd like to think that my backstory helped alot, a research facility somewhere on a big red planet, and that they were mining rocks and one of them got stuck, turns out there was infestation on it, hive grows and TSA is called in etc etc. It gave me a good idea of how the place could look and all that.
Anyway. HanzGruber, you answered everyone's posts except mine. >:/
It's just having an idea of what you want to create beforehand. You don't need a backstory for the map in order to do that...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly did help me though. I had no idea how I wanted my map to look - no layout, no concepts or anything, I just built as I went. Now, it might not have been the actual backstory that I used when building the rooms since I only thought "what purpose does this room have." However, I'd like to think that my backstory helped alot, a research facility somewhere on a big red planet, and that they were mining rocks and one of them got stuck, turns out there was infestation on it, hive grows and TSA is called in etc etc. It gave me a good idea of how the place could look and all that.
Anyway. HanzGruber, you answered everyone's posts except mine. >:/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Giving purpose to every room is creating that feeling I was talking about, brute.
It's just having an idea of what you want to create beforehand. You don't need a backstory for the map in order to do that...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly did help me though. I had no idea how I wanted my map to look - no layout, no concepts or anything, I just built as I went. Now, it might not have been the actual backstory that I used when building the rooms since I only thought "what purpose does this room have." However, I'd like to think that my backstory helped alot, a research facility somewhere on a big red planet, and that they were mining rocks and one of them got stuck, turns out there was infestation on it, hive grows and TSA is called in etc etc. It gave me a good idea of how the place could look and all that.
Anyway. HanzGruber, you answered everyone's posts except mine. >:/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Giving purpose to every room is creating that feeling I was talking about, brute. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but I can't do that without something behind that room. Something to actually give that room purpose. Does every room in sava feel like it's got a purpose? (I wouldn't know, I haven't tested it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
A good map tells you a story, you get a feeling of the place, of the situation and what happened. I mean.. I don't play NS to read stories.. if I want to read a story I read a book.
Took the words right out of my mouth... Well said, Tequila <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Like the how the wall_lab set over-used in the same fashion as Eclipse way back at V1.x?
He drew the "asteroid impact point" and made it affect all the rooms in the area. Thus, when you're playing this map, it's unavoidable to realize that an asteroid hit the station, and brought infestation.
One of the biggest problems with making maps with soul is hive placement. Everyone is talking about where the crew quarters should be, but think about hives. I see a lot of maps where a room is big for the sake of putting a hive there; no matter that plasma generators is right next to crew quarters (!). Look at bast: a hive is in feedwater because the infestation seeks out water. The hive is in engine and refinery because the infestation wants heat. It's logical and makes sense. Notice that the engine room hive is disgustingly close to marine start; even within siege range. You can clearly see that the theory was more important than the superficial gameplay.
It doesn't make sense to have a infested wall_lab room that's strategically placed a third of the map away from MS. What's the point? Some of these rooms are called "Data core" or something, although they could just as easily be called "Plasma generators" or "Central Computer" or "Bridge control." Think: what would infestation like? Why did it choose Data core, of all places?
If you think that the engine room should be near the engine of your spaceship, but is also near the MS, that's fine. You can work around gameplay problems with corridor and vent placement. You should realize more that the infestation went to a room, instead of the room being built in preparation for infestation.
Finally, something I'd REALLY like to see used more often is a sensible marine start. No offense to the mappers of the other maps, but the only marine starts in all the official maps that I think are good are bast and nothing. Why? The marines have to get to the MS somehow. They don't magically spawn in the room. You can see in bast that they've come off the docking elevator of the ship (which is above). In nothing, they've come off those elevators. But in a map like veil, the marines are just... there. No offense to the actual map, which is great, just the MS is not really explaining to me how they got there.