It's sort of a double edged sword. Some marines like winning, some like fun strats.
But usually if a fun strat fails due to marine/alien skill differences, then your marines hate you for not doing a cookie cutter build.
Like at the very start, just drop an armory, drop shotties, drop them ammo (So they don't hump it for the next 30 seconds.), and go straight to the hive.
One of two things will happen:
1) The marines get in the hive, kill whoever was on the way. Blast the hive, and good game. Marines and aliens both say things similar to "lol" and "WTH?" with positive results. Sometimes you'll hear a "gg" in there.
2) The marines get in the hive, some die along the way. They blast at the hive but fail to kill defending skulks. The skulks then go to your base, eat you and your comm chair. Marines are like "OMG NOOB COMM" and scream at you in the mic with "Never comm again!".
The marines will always blame you, like a child blames the parent. When in truth it's really up to them how much fun they have.
I was playing Aliens, and they double hive locked down. We just used gorge healing and skulks to free the hives. The marines didn't have much resources and we were able to take over the map rather fast before they got lvl 3 weapons.
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
This sort of laming is what makes people dislike NS...
To be honest lamers don't like to be lamed, especially when they can't entertain themselves. If the comm is trying to get every node on the map in a jack assish fashion, vote eject him, or dont follow orders and dont build a node in the alien hive, instead shoot it.
I've tried really hard not to turret farm...4 turrets max per location.
It's hard to defend anything without a TF or an electification on a large pub. I've tried and tried...95% of the time it doesn't work because most of the marines are incompetent and don't listen.
I'd love to win games on pubs without having to lock things down, but it often doesn't work...
Too bad. Im locking down both hives and getting my forces rallied. I'll be packing HMG/HA with two hives locked down and every res node electrified if I want to damnit. Its called winning. Im not going to purpously let them walk over my defense just in the name of "being a good sport". Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Im going to outfit every marine with the latest tech, storm into their base and blow it to shizzle with HMG or Shotgun bullets. You dont like it? Tough.
Thats completely alright. Although experienced marines would eject you sometime in the middle, that is completely your choice. I realise this thread isn't going to change the whole NS world; Not every comm is going to read this thread and say "You know what, he's right, I've been doing that all along and its getting boring, lets try something new". And you know what? Thats just fine. The fourms are a place to read, learn, and <b>improve</b>. If you want to be stubborn and lock down those hives and just sit there teching up, you'll realize sooner or later that it gets boring, then blame it on no new updates to NS, b5 taking too long, what not, leave the game for a month until the new patch comes out, then do it all again. Chances are, Recoup, we won't be seeing you for too long.
For those who are more open minded about improvement, they get a new kick out of the game. Its about "Hey, you don't always need Heavies to win...I can be more efficient like this" or "I never knew catpacks were this useful...". Its about having more fun in the server you play on. And thats what we play games for, right? To have fun.
Lock those hives down. Get a minibase going at every res node. Electrify everything that you can. Spam medpacks in the hive for absolutely no reason because you have so much res, you don't even know what to do with it. Then, the next game, try a relocation, a shotgun rush, or even just take the hive res node and just LEAVE it undefended; spend that res on weapons 3, and you'll see how change can bring fun not only for you, but for the whole server.
When I have just locked down two hives, I dont sit around base for 30 minutes getting everything upped. I give my marines all the res I have worth of equipment, and we march to the hive. This is mere seconds after getting hive number 2 locked down. We get a phase gate up outside their hive, and we just die and come back in. If they dont have heavies, then fine. If we dont have HMG's, I give them shotguns and say "Well go anyway". I dont bide my time like some morons. I go for the hive when I take down number two, or at least start thinking of HOW im going to take out that last hive.
Albeit my relocate to the third hive strategy is pretty lame as well, but at least it's about necessity (assuming you want to win at all costs), but your strategy is incredibly stupid.
Your 6:1 marines probably could have LMGed that hive down from the start, but you had to drag it out and face hive 1 skulks with your HA+HMG and then blow the hive down effortlessly in the course of 20 minutes.
What did I just finish saying Rapier? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you were able to lock down two hives, that is the sign of poorly skilled aliens and supreme incompetence in the team as a whole. Either that, or your marines were over 3:1.
So give credit for your marines for winning the game, not yourself.
Ill take that as a no, you DIDNT read what I said.
I told you specifically that I take my team the SECOND the enemy's second hive goes down (give or take 1 or two marines to stay behind and build, just in case we dont make it on our first run) I take my marines and I send them for the enemy hive. In most cases, they will move together and build a Phase Gate, then I proceed to drop equipment at base. If they want to come and phase through to get it, fine. If they dont, that's fine too. In only 5 minutes I've probably gotten the phase gate up, my marines have killed the hive, and we are searching for DC gorges and/or skulks. I dont **** around for 20 to 30 minutes after locking down hive number 2. I head for their base.
Let me say this so all of you can see it:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I go for hive number 3 after killing hive number 2 almost imediately</span>
What this thread is about is a early-mid game 2-hive lockdown where the other team doesn't even get a second hive up. They lock it down with everything you can lock down with: 10 turrets, back-up turret factories, and electrification all around. This is only viable when the teams are obviously stacked in terms of skill on the marine team. Comms know they've won, sit back and enjoy it when they can do something about it.
This isn't about when you've seiged down the second hive. If you've seiged the second hive down, they've already had their chance, and they lost it.
So Recoup, any implications on my previous post I take back, but guys, don't derail the thread, please.
Instead of locking down two hives, let me see if you approve of this strategy. I call it "Locking down the hive." I decided to try this on a random server to see what gratitiude I'd get.
At the start I built an armory, passed out mines to my marines and ordered them to stick together and get to the hive.
Two out of six marines died along the way, losing eight mines.
When they got to the hive (I had to keep them healthy, as there was skulks/gorges along the way.), I dropped a turret factory in their spawn, ordered my marines to place mines all around the turret factory, I electrified it. Made a triangle of turrets. I dropped two IP's and an armory near the electrified turret factory. Mines and electrification stopped the skulks while the IP's went up. One of my marines were parasited to death. By this time my comm chair was almost dead (Rushing skulks.) so I dropped a comm chair in their base alongside the IP's, armory, and turret factory.
After some intense fighting and using the remaining resources on mines/med spam, we won.
After the game, marines comments were somthing like "i cant believe we won gj" The alien comments were like "that is so cheap" and "WTH was that".
The skulks were too afraid of the electricity, but when I made some turrets, they suddenly became frenzied and charged it. It was kind of funny. I can imagine an alien on the enemy team telling his allies to "stay back & parasite them to death".
Funny stuff indeed.
Why did I post this in this thread? To show that comms have ways of winning other than Cookie Cutter build orders.
The other great woe of modern NS.. alien teams who never attack.
If you're paraing people to death when they're rushing your hive then quite frankly you need to quit NS and go to a different mod where both sides have guns.
If its different, more likely than not its going to make for a fun game; unless your comm is intentially smurfing it.
I had one game where the comm relocated three times...in the same room. Ominous Kismet in ns_nothing. One base under the quadlift, and mine ladders to the sides for another 2 minibases (cc,armory,ip). Needless to say that we lost, but hell it was a LOT of fun. The whole server got a good laugh out of it. We call it a 'moral victory'; loosely regarded as playing a 30 minute game that we lost (while not turtling), or doing something fun and different like a 3-part-same-room-relocate.
what we need is more "moral victories".
In that game, jammano, I don't think I would've been disappointed to lose as marine. Thus its a "moral" victory; a loss, but in the end the team still had fun. You don't get 'moral' victories with cookiecutter two-hive-lockdown games. You get empty wins, and even worse losses. The kind of wins and losses that make you think "ugh...do I really have to play this out?"
I agree with you entirely. I don't play NS to not have to fire a gun. I play it so that I'm pushed by players who:
A. Are more skilled than me forcing me to out-think them (always fun)
B. Are good at out-thinking me so force me to improve my technical skill.
This is why siege cannons (while an integral part of the game) annoy me intensely, particularly when a com will put down 2 tfacts and 3 sieges for the easy win (note this has usually resulted by him being extremely {one might say Scottish, one might say Jewish - I however will say neither} tight with the resources and locking down every choke point). Wow gg and all that but NO, just NO. It's not a good game it's a boo00ooring game!
2 HIVE TURRETFARM LOCKDOWN GAMES ARE BORING!
This leads me onto a related topic. To temp com or not to?
Would you rather have a 3 minute round because everyone is bashful about comming due to the almost immediate backlash of comments you get for 'trying something new' or otherwise throwing the TSA handbook out of the window to promote some variety in the game?
OR
Would you rather have a 10-15 minute game where the aliens have pressurized you because of you making decisions that don't assure you a perfect win.
OR PERHAPS
Would you rather have what I had only 10 minutes ago on a so-called 'veterans only' server where I was flamed for temp-comming to get the game going and ABSOLUTELY ABUSED for getting out of the CC to kill off an alien that had got the RT nearest MS in ns_ayumi down to red. If they were all such vets they should have been able to deal with (and it's interesting that someone earlier suggested this) Motion Tracking straight off. I wish they had been able to but they immediately went into ::WhineMode:: as the base was assaulted by wave after wave of skulks and fades. But nevermind, it's only a game afterall. In total that's 10 minutes of their time I have 'wasted', which in the grand scheme of a let's say 80 year lifespan is not something to give someone that much abuse for.
In my honest opinion I believe that we lost the game because in my frenzy to get the game going I didn't bind my mic to my mouse (something I do for ease-of-use) and was unable to give marines health and such. But at the end of it all I'm thoroughly glad that I didn't as these were precisely the 'rines who sprouted *DON'T GET IN THE CC IF YOU'RE ONLY GONNA TEMP COM* constantly as I was trying to setabout constructing a base.
It's a pity that I'm so attentive to the text at the bottom of the screen when I'm comming - I like to know what the rines need/want in case I've overlooked something. It's also a pity that all I could see was CAPS flaming the whole round, which iwas not only distracting me from my job at hand, but also a complete misuse of the chat function (which in my mind would be best served to ask for structures, where the hive is etc...
To conclude it seems that NS has become an elitist game and is increasingly catering exclusively for those who are familiar with it (those so-called 'vets'). If you take a proper look at the game you may notice that its lack of gore, relatively easy menu system and absence of 'realistic' damage and accuracy modifiers aim it at a much wider audience. Why can't the 'vets' and the 'noobs' just get along?
I leave you with a suggestion: The next time a newish ns player wants to com, let him. You just might get something refreshing out of the experience, I'm sure he will.
P.S. As for that server (which I will not mention because that would just be 'childish' -something else I was accused of-) I will not be darkening its figurative doors again in the near future. I came for advanced gameplay, all I found was 'Lord of the Flies'. I may return there one day to see whether that ravenous mob of children had returned to the realms of civility upon whose values NS had once-upon-a-time hoped to build itself. And now for some mapping...
When I accused them of all being defeatist they all accused ME of whining and told me to leave. It made perfect sense to me and I was about to leave when one used the unoriginal and thoughtless stock-phrase 'noob com'. In the next map I thought I'd give them a taste of their own medecine and (perhaps fairly childishly) lamed in ms spamming: 'OMG we've lost!' and refusing to build anything. I think they got the message but I must have dont something wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> as I was kicked by the admin seconds later. Maybe he didn't like the point I was illustrating.
Oh one more thing, what are your opinions on <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> making WoL's. These have been limited to 8 ocs in the immediate area. Should this also be true of <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> farms?
A challenge for all coms out there remotely familiar with the game: for every "serious" (aka cookie-cutter) game you play, the next game you com try out something completely different, at least a relocation and at most a hive ip-rush or something.
When I accused them of all being defeatist they all accused ME of whining and told me to leave. It made perfect sense to me and I was about to leave when one used the unoriginal and thoughtless stock-phrase 'noob com'. In the next map I thought I'd give them a taste of their own medecine and (perhaps fairly childishly) lamed in ms spamming: 'OMG we've lost!' and refusing to build anything. I think they got the message but I must have dont something wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> as I was kicked by the admin seconds later. Maybe he didn't like the point I was illustrating.
Oh one more thing, what are your opinions on <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> making WoL's. These have been limited to 8 ocs in the immediate area. Should this also be true of <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> farms? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Turret farms are much more viable due to the fact that marines have a pooled res system. However, on aliens, you have a seperate res meter that measures your res that only YOU can use. Therefore, its much harder to do a WoL because you need to earn that res for yourself. Its your res, you choose how to spend it.
So when compared to turret farms, yes, go ahead, lame up the whole map. But as a player of the game, I would shun it unless you're swimming in res. Laming up a hive, however is a nessecity sometimes.
As for limiting turrets in an area. I don't really have an opinion on that. However you can turret farm that hive with 10 turrets, 100 res which could've been spent on upgrades or tech. 100 res which can be bilebombed very easily by a 14 res gorge (10 + 2 chamber upgrades). Its up to you to decide how you spend your res.
As for "temp comming". Its alright as long as its not at the beginning of the game. People think that you're doing them a favor by putting down two ips and an armory at the start of the game to get it going, then pop out and say "So...who wants to comm". If someone DID want to comm, more likely than not you ruined thier comming style and they're forced to play at a minor disadvantage. However, in a situation where the game is pretty much settled down in the mid-game, theres not much difference in styles of commanding. If your commander died to save the phasegate, pop in the chair and command for 30 seconds until he spawns back and let him have the chair back. Its only common sense to. Marines cannot function without a commander, and any commander, even one that is temporary, could mean the difference between holding that seige outpost and alamo'ing in MS.
For example, to save as much starting res as possible, I spread out my base. IP as far as it'll go, and buildings in corners so that skulks can't wedge in between them to make them harder to kill. This saves 20 res on mines, and I can always get out to kill that lone skulk chewing on the armory. Its not too risky, either because the buildings are so far away from the chair (unless two are there, one biting, one camping the chair, in which case you should stay in there and get a marine back in there). Lots of "temp commanders" do not use my strategy. They put two ips as close together as possible (which just SCREAMS spawncamp me), and an armory in the middle. They pop-out and I pop-in to try to salvage the game. What am I supposed to do with this base? Recycling it wastes res and time, And now I have to spend 20 res on mines where I shouldn't have. I'm playing at a disadvantage now. I'm not commanding at peak preformance because Res i should've had I don't.
But when I pop out to save the res node and die, I would scream for someone to get in the chair to take over until I get back. Because, you know, I like my marines alive and shooting things...even when i'm not. Whats different about mid-game comming? Not much. Drop a medpack here, ammo pack there, an occational waypoint or res node. Hell, I even give orders when i'm in the spawn queue, but I can't drop them a medpack or rt. But in the start there are hundreds of possibilities, and you may not choose the right one.
A game where you have the "No comm strategy" for a minute into the game then have a competent comm join in to kick start it is better than the guy who gets in drops two ips and an armory and gets out.
2.0... we were going to win... so waht i did was drop a continuous line of turrets all the way down tram tunnel
Marines built every one and i elecced em all... then built 2 lins of turrets down both sides of the tf's.... mined the tops of the tf's wtih the mine limit of mines (covered like half of it)
The thing was.... instead of becoming pissy at my endgame delays... the aliens all wanted to come see... so we let them in and the onos tried to run the "gauntlet" aka run across the top of all the tfacs and get to the other side witout dying (couldnt)
We had a jolly good time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~Jason
there used to be some screenies around this forum....
2.0... we were going to win... so waht i did was drop a continuous line of turrets all the way down tram tunnel
Marines built every one and i elecced em all... then built 2 lins of turrets down both sides of the tf's.... mined the tops of the tf's wtih the mine limit of mines (covered like half of it)
The thing was.... instead of becoming pissy at my endgame delays... the aliens all wanted to come see... so we let them in and the onos tried to run the "gauntlet" aka run across the top of all the tfacs and get to the other side witout dying (couldnt)
We had a jolly good time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~Jason
there used to be some screenies around this forum.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, when people join a game of NS, they probably want a serious game. On my regular server, we take a break sometimes and just jerk off. Ip-farming strats, PG farm strats, welder rushes, just for the hell of it. Thats alright too. The point is to have fun, and in that situation, it was obviously fun.
What I see is that, if you have, indeed, locked down two hives, there should be nothing stopping you from attacking their last hive. The only reason you would NOT be able to do it, is if you are meeting very stiff resistance along the way. Lets say they WoL all the hallways and its impossible to sneak it, so the only way in is a fierce gunbattle in heavy armory with HMG's and GL's. This means you have to wait for this technology and resources to come in. OC blockages are quite a **** to get around, so, if you have locked down two hives early on, then you have the rest of the map to worry about. But, if you already control two hives and at LEAST half the res nodes, you should be able to make quite a blunt strike against the enemy team, more often sucessful due to your control over spot-critical hives.
I take on your point about IPs and have now incorporated it into my game (ty), but gorges are very effective at working in pairs to WoL. I personally this that turret farms and WoLs are more of an annoyance than an effective defence with the exception that marines rely on a commander for more HP when attacking a structure (ignoring armouries - unlikely to be close to WoL's) whereas aliens can regen or use DCs or must rely on a nearby gorge. This gives more options and I think as a result WoLs are more deadly.
Then you have GLs and nades vs Bilebombs, both effective long-range anti-structure weaponry which I would say are even although bilebombs in NS are heavily underrated.
Just FYI by the time we'd lost both the RTs and were ultimately doomed I had built/researched: (not in this order)
2 RTs 2 (admittedly badly positioned) IPS Armoury Obs (+MT, Phase Tech) Upgrade Centre (Lvl1 Armour) Tfact (I was going for electrify which is why I tried so desperately to save the RT nearest base)
I am now going to assign some com-specific binds so that I can gain more experience on that side of the game since I have previously neglected it because of my 56k and 2hour drops. If I get autoed to aliens (I always auto for fairness and to give me a well-rounded skill level) I'll work on getting better at fade and onos. This all goes back to a previous comment in this thread about wanting to try out different areas of the game and getting the most out of it.
Lito, what is your server you keep talking about? Me? I skip around on servers. I just filter out all NS servers that are above 150 ping and skip around when it changes to a lag map (Like Bast.)
To a previous post: They were parasiting us because if they came close they would have gotten shocked. They were too stupid to suicide-chomp the turret factory.
Just because you've played a thousand games where a 2-hive lockdown results in a slow death you shouldn't be crying out on the forums for commanders to stop doing it. I agree that it can be boring but that's not the solution at all, there are many situations where it can infact lead to interesting games, a lot depends on the alien team.
Lockdowns can range from the minimalist (2 turrets) to the obscene (how much res do you have?) and they all have their places in NS. The later mainly crops up in siege maps which for most aren't an issue and when they do pop up on the classic maps it usually means you've got an inexperienced com. Other approaches, such as electrifying rts to force the alien team to make a concerted effort, early lockdowns combined with relocates, can make a 2-hive relocate quite a fun and challenging game.
It should never be easy for the marines to capture 2-hives. I think it would be more useful to inspire the aliens to actually do something about it, if they manage a solid 2-hive lockdown then you deserve to lose, it's not the commanders fault, it's yours. This is much akin to the crazy strategy where you either get "OMG Amazing" or "WTH Noob Com" where you're simply passing the blame on.
I´m really into these cray strats with pubs. Thing like up rushes, electrf rushes,sg rushes,relocs in 2 places(that`s damn funny try!)
I either won the game and every1 is lol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, or i lose and get n00bc0mm`s but that`s not the point.
Those are from both teams, in case u lock both hvies you get them up in 5min and then in worst case you read aliens whining "boooooorin"
<!--QuoteBegin-Meto+Aug 31 2004, 08:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Meto @ Aug 31 2004, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because you've played a thousand games where a 2-hive lockdown results in a slow death you shouldn't be crying out on the forums for commanders to stop doing it. I agree that it can be boring but that's not the solution at all, there are many situations where it can infact lead to interesting games, a lot depends on the alien team.
Lockdowns can range from the minimalist (2 turrets) to the obscene (how much res do you have?) and they all have their places in NS. The later mainly crops up in siege maps which for most aren't an issue and when they do pop up on the classic maps it usually means you've got an inexperienced com. Other approaches, such as electrifying rts to force the alien team to make a concerted effort, early lockdowns combined with relocates, can make a 2-hive relocate quite a fun and challenging game.
It should never be easy for the marines to capture 2-hives. I think it would be more useful to inspire the aliens to actually do something about it, if they manage a solid 2-hive lockdown then you deserve to lose, it's not the commanders fault, it's yours. This is much akin to the crazy strategy where you either get "OMG Amazing" or "WTH Noob Com" where you're simply passing the blame on.
Meto <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not crying, i'm not complaining, i'm suggesting. I honestly don't care if they do it. I Regular in servers where this rarely rarely happens. I'm trying to get the message out that this usually leads to boring games, and i'm compelling the commanders to try something new that will most definitely lead to something interesting, 100% guarenteed.
And its no one's fault that the game is a two-hive lockdown BUT the commander. The grunts arn't placing down the turrets, the grunts arn't giving the orders, its the commander. Its not very easy to get a two-hive lockdown unless:
1. Aliens are inexperienced, or have enough inexperienced players that the experienced players can't make a difference. 2. 'Skill stack' on marines, in which the obviously better players stack on the marine team.
A commander should notice this by watching the gameplay, looking at the scoreboard, looking at what situation they're in, and move in for the kill, not lock down both hives, electrify every resnode, and **** for heavy armor.
VERY often an inexperienced comm can win with a very good team.
'Many' situations where it can lead to interesting games is an overstatement.
Comments
One game I played I was single handedly wiping out MS, with the alien team yelling at me to leave the IPs up.
I didn't, I took everything down and ended the game quickly. The next match was a lot more fun.
And in case anyone suspects, I DID ask the comm if he was new, but there was no response. If you don't say you're new, you get no mercy.
But usually if a fun strat fails due to marine/alien skill differences, then your marines hate you for not doing a cookie cutter build.
Like at the very start, just drop an armory, drop shotties, drop them ammo (So they don't hump it for the next 30 seconds.), and go straight to the hive.
One of two things will happen:
1) The marines get in the hive, kill whoever was on the way. Blast the hive, and good game. Marines and aliens both say things similar to "lol" and "WTH?" with positive results. Sometimes you'll hear a "gg" in there.
2) The marines get in the hive, some die along the way. They blast at the hive but fail to kill defending skulks. The skulks then go to your base, eat you and your comm chair. Marines are like "OMG NOOB COMM" and scream at you in the mic with "Never comm again!".
The marines will always blame you, like a child blames the parent. When in truth it's really up to them how much fun they have.
I was playing Aliens, and they double hive locked down. We just used gorge healing and skulks to free the hives. The marines didn't have much resources and we were able to take over the map rather fast before they got lvl 3 weapons.
To be honest lamers don't like to be lamed, especially when they can't entertain themselves. If the comm is trying to get every node on the map in a jack assish fashion, vote eject him, or dont follow orders and dont build a node in the alien hive, instead shoot it.
It's hard to defend anything without a TF or an electification on a large pub. I've tried and tried...95% of the time it doesn't work because most of the marines are incompetent and don't listen.
I'd love to win games on pubs without having to lock things down, but it often doesn't work...
In a small match (<10v10), it's no problem...
Too bad. Im locking down both hives and getting my forces rallied. I'll be packing HMG/HA with two hives locked down and every res node electrified if I want to damnit. Its called winning. Im not going to purpously let them walk over my defense just in the name of "being a good sport". Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Im going to outfit every marine with the latest tech, storm into their base and blow it to shizzle with HMG or Shotgun bullets. You dont like it? Tough.
For those who are more open minded about improvement, they get a new kick out of the game. Its about "Hey, you don't always need Heavies to win...I can be more efficient like this" or "I never knew catpacks were this useful...". Its about having more fun in the server you play on. And thats what we play games for, right? To have fun.
Lock those hives down. Get a minibase going at every res node. Electrify everything that you can. Spam medpacks in the hive for absolutely no reason because you have so much res, you don't even know what to do with it. Then, the next game, try a relocation, a shotgun rush, or even just take the hive res node and just LEAVE it undefended; spend that res on weapons 3, and you'll see how change can bring fun not only for you, but for the whole server.
Albeit my relocate to the third hive strategy is pretty lame as well, but at least it's about necessity (assuming you want to win at all costs), but your strategy is incredibly stupid.
Your 6:1 marines probably could have LMGed that hive down from the start, but you had to drag it out and face hive 1 skulks with your HA+HMG and then blow the hive down effortlessly in the course of 20 minutes.
Look, dude.
If you were able to lock down two hives, that is the sign of poorly skilled aliens and supreme incompetence in the team as a whole. Either that, or your marines were over 3:1.
So give credit for your marines for winning the game, not yourself.
I told you specifically that I take my team the SECOND the enemy's second hive goes down (give or take 1 or two marines to stay behind and build, just in case we dont make it on our first run) I take my marines and I send them for the enemy hive. In most cases, they will move together and build a Phase Gate, then I proceed to drop equipment at base. If they want to come and phase through to get it, fine. If they dont, that's fine too. In only 5 minutes I've probably gotten the phase gate up, my marines have killed the hive, and we are searching for DC gorges and/or skulks. I dont **** around for 20 to 30 minutes after locking down hive number 2. I head for their base.
Let me say this so all of you can see it:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I go for hive number 3 after killing hive number 2 almost imediately</span>
This way all you blind folks can spot it.
This isn't about when you've seiged down the second hive. If you've seiged the second hive down, they've already had their chance, and they lost it.
So Recoup, any implications on my previous post I take back, but guys, don't derail the thread, please.
At the start I built an armory, passed out mines to my marines and ordered them to stick together and get to the hive.
Two out of six marines died along the way, losing eight mines.
When they got to the hive (I had to keep them healthy, as there was skulks/gorges along the way.), I dropped a turret factory in their spawn, ordered my marines to place mines all around the turret factory, I electrified it. Made a triangle of turrets. I dropped two IP's and an armory near the electrified turret factory. Mines and electrification stopped the skulks while the IP's went up. One of my marines were parasited to death. By this time my comm chair was almost dead (Rushing skulks.) so I dropped a comm chair in their base alongside the IP's, armory, and turret factory.
After some intense fighting and using the remaining resources on mines/med spam, we won.
After the game, marines comments were somthing like "i cant believe we won gj"
The alien comments were like "that is so cheap" and "WTH was that".
The skulks were too afraid of the electricity, but when I made some turrets, they suddenly became frenzied and charged it. It was kind of funny. I can imagine an alien on the enemy team telling his allies to "stay back & parasite them to death".
Funny stuff indeed.
Why did I post this in this thread? To show that comms have ways of winning other than Cookie Cutter build orders.
If you're paraing people to death when they're rushing your hive then quite frankly you need to quit NS and go to a different mod where both sides have guns.
I had one game where the comm relocated three times...in the same room. Ominous Kismet in ns_nothing. One base under the quadlift, and mine ladders to the sides for another 2 minibases (cc,armory,ip). Needless to say that we lost, but hell it was a LOT of fun. The whole server got a good laugh out of it. We call it a 'moral victory'; loosely regarded as playing a 30 minute game that we lost (while not turtling), or doing something fun and different like a 3-part-same-room-relocate.
what we need is more "moral victories".
In that game, jammano, I don't think I would've been disappointed to lose as marine. Thus its a "moral" victory; a loss, but in the end the team still had fun. You don't get 'moral' victories with cookiecutter two-hive-lockdown games. You get empty wins, and even worse losses. The kind of wins and losses that make you think "ugh...do I really have to play this out?"
A. Are more skilled than me forcing me to out-think them (always fun)
B. Are good at out-thinking me so force me to improve my technical skill.
This is why siege cannons (while an integral part of the game) annoy me intensely, particularly when a com will put down 2 tfacts and 3 sieges for the easy win (note this has usually resulted by him being extremely {one might say Scottish, one might say Jewish - I however will say neither} tight with the resources and locking down every choke point). Wow gg and all that but NO, just NO. It's not a good game it's a boo00ooring game!
2 HIVE TURRETFARM LOCKDOWN GAMES ARE BORING!
This leads me onto a related topic. To temp com or not to?
Would you rather have a 3 minute round because everyone is bashful about comming due to the almost immediate backlash of comments you get for 'trying something new' or otherwise throwing the TSA handbook out of the window to promote some variety in the game?
OR
Would you rather have a 10-15 minute game where the aliens have pressurized you because of you making decisions that don't assure you a perfect win.
OR PERHAPS
Would you rather have what I had only 10 minutes ago on a so-called 'veterans only' server where I was flamed for temp-comming to get the game going and ABSOLUTELY ABUSED for getting out of the CC to kill off an alien that had got the RT nearest MS in ns_ayumi down to red. If they were all such vets they should have been able to deal with (and it's interesting that someone earlier suggested this) Motion Tracking straight off. I wish they had been able to but they immediately went into ::WhineMode:: as the base was assaulted by wave after wave of skulks and fades. But nevermind, it's only a game afterall. In total that's 10 minutes of their time I have 'wasted', which in the grand scheme of a let's say 80 year lifespan is not something to give someone that much abuse for.
In my honest opinion I believe that we lost the game because in my frenzy to get the game going I didn't bind my mic to my mouse (something I do for ease-of-use) and was unable to give marines health and such. But at the end of it all I'm thoroughly glad that I didn't as these were precisely the 'rines who sprouted *DON'T GET IN THE CC IF YOU'RE ONLY GONNA TEMP COM* constantly as I was trying to setabout constructing a base.
It's a pity that I'm so attentive to the text at the bottom of the screen when I'm comming - I like to know what the rines need/want in case I've overlooked something. It's also a pity that all I could see was CAPS flaming the whole round, which iwas not only distracting me from my job at hand, but also a complete misuse of the chat function (which in my mind would be best served to ask for structures, where the hive is etc...
To conclude it seems that NS has become an elitist game and is increasingly catering exclusively for those who are familiar with it (those so-called 'vets'). If you take a proper look at the game you may notice that its lack of gore, relatively easy menu system and absence of 'realistic' damage and accuracy modifiers aim it at a much wider audience. Why can't the 'vets' and the 'noobs' just get along?
I leave you with a suggestion: The next time a newish ns player wants to com, let him. You just might get something refreshing out of the experience, I'm sure he will.
P.S. As for that server (which I will not mention because that would just be 'childish' -something else I was accused of-) I will not be darkening its figurative doors again in the near future. I came for advanced gameplay, all I found was 'Lord of the Flies'. I may return there one day to see whether that ravenous mob of children had returned to the realms of civility upon whose values NS had once-upon-a-time hoped to build itself. And now for some mapping...
When I accused them of all being defeatist they all accused ME of whining and told me to leave. It made perfect sense to me and I was about to leave when one used the unoriginal and thoughtless stock-phrase 'noob com'. In the next map I thought I'd give them a taste of their own medecine and (perhaps fairly childishly) lamed in ms spamming: 'OMG we've lost!' and refusing to build anything. I think they got the message but I must have dont something wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> as I was kicked by the admin seconds later. Maybe he didn't like the point I was illustrating.
Oh one more thing, what are your opinions on <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> making WoL's. These have been limited to 8 ocs in the immediate area. Should this also be true of <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> farms?
When I accused them of all being defeatist they all accused ME of whining and told me to leave. It made perfect sense to me and I was about to leave when one used the unoriginal and thoughtless stock-phrase 'noob com'. In the next map I thought I'd give them a taste of their own medecine and (perhaps fairly childishly) lamed in ms spamming: 'OMG we've lost!' and refusing to build anything. I think they got the message but I must have dont something wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> as I was kicked by the admin seconds later. Maybe he didn't like the point I was illustrating.
Oh one more thing, what are your opinions on <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> making WoL's. These have been limited to 8 ocs in the immediate area. Should this also be true of <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> farms? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Turret farms are much more viable due to the fact that marines have a pooled res system. However, on aliens, you have a seperate res meter that measures your res that only YOU can use. Therefore, its much harder to do a WoL because you need to earn that res for yourself. Its your res, you choose how to spend it.
So when compared to turret farms, yes, go ahead, lame up the whole map. But as a player of the game, I would shun it unless you're swimming in res. Laming up a hive, however is a nessecity sometimes.
As for limiting turrets in an area. I don't really have an opinion on that. However you can turret farm that hive with 10 turrets, 100 res which could've been spent on upgrades or tech. 100 res which can be bilebombed very easily by a 14 res gorge (10 + 2 chamber upgrades). Its up to you to decide how you spend your res.
As for "temp comming". Its alright as long as its not at the beginning of the game. People think that you're doing them a favor by putting down two ips and an armory at the start of the game to get it going, then pop out and say "So...who wants to comm". If someone DID want to comm, more likely than not you ruined thier comming style and they're forced to play at a minor disadvantage. However, in a situation where the game is pretty much settled down in the mid-game, theres not much difference in styles of commanding. If your commander died to save the phasegate, pop in the chair and command for 30 seconds until he spawns back and let him have the chair back. Its only common sense to. Marines cannot function without a commander, and any commander, even one that is temporary, could mean the difference between holding that seige outpost and alamo'ing in MS.
For example, to save as much starting res as possible, I spread out my base. IP as far as it'll go, and buildings in corners so that skulks can't wedge in between them to make them harder to kill. This saves 20 res on mines, and I can always get out to kill that lone skulk chewing on the armory. Its not too risky, either because the buildings are so far away from the chair (unless two are there, one biting, one camping the chair, in which case you should stay in there and get a marine back in there). Lots of "temp commanders" do not use my strategy. They put two ips as close together as possible (which just SCREAMS spawncamp me), and an armory in the middle. They pop-out and I pop-in to try to salvage the game. What am I supposed to do with this base? Recycling it wastes res and time, And now I have to spend 20 res on mines where I shouldn't have. I'm playing at a disadvantage now. I'm not commanding at peak preformance because Res i should've had I don't.
But when I pop out to save the res node and die, I would scream for someone to get in the chair to take over until I get back. Because, you know, I like my marines alive and shooting things...even when i'm not. Whats different about mid-game comming? Not much. Drop a medpack here, ammo pack there, an occational waypoint or res node. Hell, I even give orders when i'm in the spawn queue, but I can't drop them a medpack or rt. But in the start there are hundreds of possibilities, and you may not choose the right one.
A game where you have the "No comm strategy" for a minute into the game then have a competent comm join in to kick start it is better than the guy who gets in drops two ips and an armory and gets out.
Best thing i ever did...
Great wall of china in bast
2.0... we were going to win... so waht i did was drop a continuous line of turrets all the way down tram tunnel
Marines built every one and i elecced em all... then built 2 lins of turrets down both sides of the tf's.... mined the tops of the tf's wtih the mine limit of mines (covered like half of it)
The thing was.... instead of becoming pissy at my endgame delays... the aliens all wanted to come see... so we let them in and the onos tried to run the "gauntlet" aka run across the top of all the tfacs and get to the other side witout dying (couldnt)
We had a jolly good time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~Jason
there used to be some screenies around this forum....
Best thing i ever did...
Great wall of china in bast
2.0... we were going to win... so waht i did was drop a continuous line of turrets all the way down tram tunnel
Marines built every one and i elecced em all... then built 2 lins of turrets down both sides of the tf's.... mined the tops of the tf's wtih the mine limit of mines (covered like half of it)
The thing was.... instead of becoming pissy at my endgame delays... the aliens all wanted to come see... so we let them in and the onos tried to run the "gauntlet" aka run across the top of all the tfacs and get to the other side witout dying (couldnt)
We had a jolly good time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~Jason
there used to be some screenies around this forum.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, when people join a game of NS, they probably want a serious game. On my regular server, we take a break sometimes and just jerk off. Ip-farming strats, PG farm strats, welder rushes, just for the hell of it. Thats alright too. The point is to have fun, and in that situation, it was obviously fun.
Then you have GLs and nades vs Bilebombs, both effective long-range anti-structure weaponry which I would say are even although bilebombs in NS are heavily underrated.
Just FYI by the time we'd lost both the RTs and were ultimately doomed I had built/researched: (not in this order)
2 RTs
2 (admittedly badly positioned) IPS
Armoury
Obs (+MT, Phase Tech)
Upgrade Centre (Lvl1 Armour)
Tfact (I was going for electrify which is why I tried so desperately to save the RT nearest base)
I am now going to assign some com-specific binds so that I can gain more experience on that side of the game since I have previously neglected it because of my 56k and 2hour drops. If I get autoed to aliens (I always auto for fairness and to give me a well-rounded skill level) I'll work on getting better at fade and onos. This all goes back to a previous comment in this thread about wanting to try out different areas of the game and getting the most out of it.
To a previous post: They were parasiting us because if they came close they would have gotten shocked. They were too stupid to suicide-chomp the turret factory.
<3 u salty~
Lockdowns can range from the minimalist (2 turrets) to the obscene (how much res do you have?) and they all have their places in NS. The later mainly crops up in siege maps which for most aren't an issue and when they do pop up on the classic maps it usually means you've got an inexperienced com. Other approaches, such as electrifying rts to force the alien team to make a concerted effort, early lockdowns combined with relocates, can make a 2-hive relocate quite a fun and challenging game.
It should never be easy for the marines to capture 2-hives. I think it would be more useful to inspire the aliens to actually do something about it, if they manage a solid 2-hive lockdown then you deserve to lose, it's not the commanders fault, it's yours. This is much akin to the crazy strategy where you either get "OMG Amazing" or "WTH Noob Com" where you're simply passing the blame on.
Meto
I either won the game and every1 is lol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, or i lose and get n00bc0mm`s but that`s not the point.
Those are from both teams, in case u lock both hvies you get them up in 5min and then in worst case you read aliens whining "boooooorin"
conclusion make f4 legal in 2hive locks.....
Lockdowns can range from the minimalist (2 turrets) to the obscene (how much res do you have?) and they all have their places in NS. The later mainly crops up in siege maps which for most aren't an issue and when they do pop up on the classic maps it usually means you've got an inexperienced com. Other approaches, such as electrifying rts to force the alien team to make a concerted effort, early lockdowns combined with relocates, can make a 2-hive relocate quite a fun and challenging game.
It should never be easy for the marines to capture 2-hives. I think it would be more useful to inspire the aliens to actually do something about it, if they manage a solid 2-hive lockdown then you deserve to lose, it's not the commanders fault, it's yours. This is much akin to the crazy strategy where you either get "OMG Amazing" or "WTH Noob Com" where you're simply passing the blame on.
Meto <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not crying, i'm not complaining, i'm suggesting. I honestly don't care if they do it. I Regular in servers where this rarely rarely happens. I'm trying to get the message out that this usually leads to boring games, and i'm compelling the commanders to try something new that will most definitely lead to something interesting, 100% guarenteed.
And its no one's fault that the game is a two-hive lockdown BUT the commander. The grunts arn't placing down the turrets, the grunts arn't giving the orders, its the commander. Its not very easy to get a two-hive lockdown unless:
1. Aliens are inexperienced, or have enough inexperienced players that the experienced players can't make a difference.
2. 'Skill stack' on marines, in which the obviously better players stack on the marine team.
A commander should notice this by watching the gameplay, looking at the scoreboard, looking at what situation they're in, and move in for the kill, not lock down both hives, electrify every resnode, and **** for heavy armor.
VERY often an inexperienced comm can win with a very good team.
'Many' situations where it can lead to interesting games is an overstatement.