To The Comms Of Ns
Lito
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20560Members
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20560Members
<div class="IPBDescription">stop locking down stuff</div> You're a great comm. You've got a two hive lockdown: Phase gates, lots of turrets and even electrification. These nublets on the alien team have no chance to survive, and must make thier time.
<b>BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRING</b>
I'm not going to even get into why locking down hives are a stupid idea in the first place. The main point of this thread is to tell you that two hive lockdown games arn't fun for either side. Sure you're going to win the game, but its a heartless and unfun win. These games ride on the notion that "Its just a matter of time" before the marines get all the res nodes, electrify them all and then move on the hive with heavy hmgs and full upgrades
<b>STOP IT!</b>
These games arn't fun for BOTH teams, win or lose. I'd rather have an epic game where I lose than play out a two-hive turretfarm, nodeelec game. Not only are they not fun, it shows inexperience, incompetence and ingorance of a commander. You fully well know that the game is over. Don't drag it out. Move in for the kill. You don't need every non-occupied node on the map before you kill that hive. You don't need to turretfarm every location of strategic importance.
Know your marines. Know their abilities and play within them. If you can clearly see that your marines are handling the alien team with one hand tied behind their backs, then exploit it! If they can handle skulks with lmgs anywhere on the map, chances are they can handle them even better with shotguns while rushing that hive.
<b>MOVE IN!</b>
Get the game over with, so the skill stack can even them out with a new game.
Say it with me now boys and girls
<b>2 HIVE TURRETFARM LOCKDOWN GAMES ARE BORING!</b>
Why do we play games? We play games because we want to have fun. How do we have fun? Do we have to win to have fun? Usually this is the case, but it doesn't have to be! These types of games are NOT fun and completely contradict the reason why we play games!
Go for the nonstandard win. Try a new strategy. Get motion tracking first for once in your life. Try catpacks. Try grenade launcher rush. TRY SOMETHING NEW.
<b>BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRING</b>
I'm not going to even get into why locking down hives are a stupid idea in the first place. The main point of this thread is to tell you that two hive lockdown games arn't fun for either side. Sure you're going to win the game, but its a heartless and unfun win. These games ride on the notion that "Its just a matter of time" before the marines get all the res nodes, electrify them all and then move on the hive with heavy hmgs and full upgrades
<b>STOP IT!</b>
These games arn't fun for BOTH teams, win or lose. I'd rather have an epic game where I lose than play out a two-hive turretfarm, nodeelec game. Not only are they not fun, it shows inexperience, incompetence and ingorance of a commander. You fully well know that the game is over. Don't drag it out. Move in for the kill. You don't need every non-occupied node on the map before you kill that hive. You don't need to turretfarm every location of strategic importance.
Know your marines. Know their abilities and play within them. If you can clearly see that your marines are handling the alien team with one hand tied behind their backs, then exploit it! If they can handle skulks with lmgs anywhere on the map, chances are they can handle them even better with shotguns while rushing that hive.
<b>MOVE IN!</b>
Get the game over with, so the skill stack can even them out with a new game.
Say it with me now boys and girls
<b>2 HIVE TURRETFARM LOCKDOWN GAMES ARE BORING!</b>
Why do we play games? We play games because we want to have fun. How do we have fun? Do we have to win to have fun? Usually this is the case, but it doesn't have to be! These types of games are NOT fun and completely contradict the reason why we play games!
Go for the nonstandard win. Try a new strategy. Get motion tracking first for once in your life. Try catpacks. Try grenade launcher rush. TRY SOMETHING NEW.
Comments
if you're admin to a server just ban the damn commander. but if you're not, there's not much you can do.
pubs are open to the public so just let people do what they want.
I don't lock down hives normally. What I normally go is make my rines mine the area they're going to siege. No turrets, no electrification. Just mines and siege cannons. Sometimes an Armory if they need it.
Best strat ever:
Jet pack / shotgun rush.
It takes four clips of a shotgun to down a hive. With JP's as early as fades and they have shotguns, it's very easy to just have your marines fly around or on the hive and focus fire it to death.
If you've got a 2 hive lockdown it means that the skill of your marines are obviously higher than that of your opposition. An experienced alien team will NEVER let marines get a 2 hive lockdown if they can help it. They understand that while they can lock down 1 hive, they can break it if they have 2, this is why aliens will fight the HARDEST to save a second hive if it happens to go under attack. 2 hives gives them a fighting chance. When they lose that chance, they lose the will to fight. Thats boring.
At worst a two hive lockdown should be a pg next to an electrified res node. Build both, elec, move on to finish the game.
a 2 hive lockdown is almost always a definite win. Its like when you play an RPG and use a memory reader to change some values to give you 999999999 money or 9999 stats. Whatever the game throws at you you know you're going to get past it, so why bother playing?
<b><i><u>2 HIVE TURRETFARM LOCKDOWN GAMES ARE BORING!</u></i></b>
I don't lock down hives normally. What I normally go is make my rines mine the area they're going to siege. No turrets, no electrification. Just mines and siege cannons. Sometimes an Armory if they need it.
Best strat ever:
Jet pack / shotgun rush.
It takes four clips of a shotgun to down a hive. With JP's as early as fades and they have shotguns, it's very easy to just have your marines fly around or on the hive and focus fire it to death. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes yes yes, you can win. And with ease. But is that fun? Does winning mean you enjoyed the game at all? I don't think so. I want a good, hard-fought battle (or better yet, a glorious loss!) in which both teams have huge amounts of fun. That's all. It's a game, enjoy it. <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <3 <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2hive lockdown is usually suicide. takes res, time, effort and is boring. However if you fight vs SC its another story.
The res is worth it simply cause kharaa WON'T get kills and RFK. Time is also ok. Kharaa won't pose a big thread sp you can techup faster. Boring, maybe for the kharaa but rines can have loads of fun.
If kharaa find a 2 hive lock boring let them adapt and try to break it. thats not boring, thats hard work. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
However, that generally requires somebody strongly reminding the marines to hurry their yay-we've-won-this-I-can-rambo-now butts up.
Some people say that winning isn't fun. Well it may be a boring, overpowered, unbalanced strat, but it gets you the win.
Now on NS if I wanted to have fun, it'd be some retarded strat that my marines would get **** at me for doing that would only work with skilled marines (Clanners.)
Sort of like going solo hero with mass moon wells on Warcraft III. It's fun, it's not overpowered, but on NS doing somthing like "The One Man Shotgunner w/ Alamo base" won't be fun at all in their eyes.
One game I practically mined the aliens to death. LMG and mines was all I used to win with offensive push. The marines were complaining for me to get them other stuff. They called me a bad comm, even though we won.
Then on a different server I did a two hive lockdown cause they went sensory first and everyone was telling me I was a pro comm, a good comm and I should play on their server more.
I predict someone will complain how the alien team isn't having any fun. My response: They're the enemy team, it's their fault they aren't having fun. It's like a newbie on an RTS game with a couple teir one units VS a good player with a full army of the highest teir units.
If I wanted the Alien team to have fun I'd play an Alamo game (One res node. Mass turret farm/mines, comm chairs blocking door ways. Marines with hvy armor/welders/lvl 3 HMG's. It's no fun for the marines. (Except a few, like me. I find alamo games fun.) Longest Alamo I've ever had was two hours. The aliens were like "Good game! n_n" while the marines were like "omg u sux!!11!one!1!"
It's all in the eyes of the beholder. More marines want to win than to have fun.
It used to be spawncamping, but now its teams dragging their feet.
IE:
3 fades dance around your base, hit the IP every now and again to kill a spawning rine, swipe your upgrade buildings, then blink back out. Yes, they're attacking the base, and they're not really spawncamping per se... but they drag the game out by 20 mins because they want to do everything except take out the IP and CC. This can cause a lot of frustration, especially since many servers don't have any way to check if its being abused.
OR
You're in the hive, you try to rush out but get squished by HA HMG with catpacks. Its all over. BUT NO! The marines build a tfac, pg, pile of sieges, and proceed to SIEGE your hive. Or it gets better, then put up a tfac and NORMAL TURRETS and proceed to kill your hive that way. This is not spawncamping either, but its horribly horribly lame.
In both cases the players cant complain. If you're on the losing side you're just a whiner, and if you're on the winning side then you're not complaining because you're winning. Your only hope of justice is an Admin on your team who's been playing for the entire round and KNOWS whats been happening... because anyone who joins will just say "nah, they're just whining cos they lost".
It takes the shine off a lot of games, and generally leads to people quitting the server. Nefarious game slacking and skill stacking is cheap and hard to really "prove" because it involves constant monitoring of games, and people don't want to have to do that. And rightly so.
So instead we appeal to the players..... but really, how many of them are going to listen?
Then there wouldn`t be any glorious fight without...
jsut hand shotties and bg...
I miss the games where the comm was the actual decisive factor in a game. 'Cause frankly, you can be a crap comm, and still win with a leet team. So you're just a medpack dispencing, upgrade getting comm who drops the occational shotgun when they need it. Feel pretty leet, don't you?
Instead, think back to that really great game. The aliens gave you hell as you desperately tried to seige down that second hive. If it weren't for those shotguns and properly placed meds, you probably would've lost it ages ago. Your team must of taken down 3 fades atleast! They finally got the turret factory down, but not before you got that quick scan in for another volley of seiges to get that hive down! You send in your marines to clean up the mess and then move on to the last hive. Congradulations are thrown around, compliments on marksmentship here and there, and the label of "Decent commander" is thrown around with your name.
Those games don't happen with 2 hive super turret lockdowns, my friend.
so instead of having the lockdown, you might as well have all or at least some of your marines rush to teh first hive and spawn camp while you just chill in your comm chair. Isn't that just as boring for the commander as it is for the aliens?
Just leave the damn game and join a different server if you run into these situations.
So you're just a medpack dispencing, upgrade getting comm who drops the occational shotgun when they need it.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again
"I am become AutoCommander, dispenser of meds an ammo"
Notice all the "moderates", "somewhats", etc in the paragraph above. This is because a good comm should in fact be an average commander. The problem in NS is most people suck at RTS, and are terrible commanders. The only reason people stand out is because they understand the game, not because they excel at it. A seasoned starcraft player that's played for many a year would annihilate most commanders in terms of skill after some practice, including most clan commanders.
A kickass commander would totally know what is going on in a game. That comm would know what the aliens are doing, predict their movements, be ready for surprises, and be all over the map, all the time. That comm would rarely miss meds, and would be anywhere that they were needed BEFORE they were needed. When a marine says "are you watching me all game or something, you always med me right as I need it", you are doing your job as commander. A great commander would never be behind the game, they would be in front of it, ALWAYS being where they were needed, BEFORE they were needed.
The mark of an excellent commander is being dynamic, fluid, mobile, and very sharp. Be where you need to be when you need to be, do what you need to do when you need to do it, and be highly motivated. Wimpy comms don't inspire ANYONE to do anything, and that's a No-Go. If you don't fit these criterion, do your team and don't get in the chair. No one wants to go lock down 2 hives, turret farm everything, and sit back while the res flows in. That's boring, time-consuming, and wasting everyone's time. No one learns from that except how NOT TO PLAY. Try that strategy in WC3 or any other RTS and see how quickly you're annihilated. The only reason it works in NS is because of a moderate team inbalance and the disorganization of most alien teams in pubs. Play the game like it was intended and see how much complex and diverse NS can actually be.
I can win with mass towers at my expansions and theirs (Turret farming in this game.) and a SOLO hero. No millitary units. Just mass towers and a solo hero.
This works on average players. I'm not an average WC3 player. I'm higher than that. I pretty much just kill workers/heroes/milltiary units with my one hero until their gold mine runs out. Then since they can't expand (No army to take town towers.) they're doomed.
Those games last an hour.
we do our best in the games and we wanted fun, but with those who lame around in NS, dropping mc/sc without asking, what can we do? they dun listen they dun learn. its ok for marines having 3~4 noobs* since we could just ignore them (never med them), but with freedoms to build with gorge, that problems.
or should we just ask all the marines to have one hand tied up so that aliens stand a chance
We must've capped all the top half of the nodes (cafeteria and above on ns_mineshaft) and i just starting to elec them, alien were in the bottom half but just couldn't expand becaues of my elec'd nodes, so they simply blocked themselves into there hive with millions of oc's.
Needless to say this game went on for about 40 minutes when it was won in te first 5.
Insted of trying to win, i simply capped every node possible, leaving aliens with a whole two nodes, and farmed that big middle room that slopes upwards (sorry don't know mineshaft well at all, but it's ok because no one ever seems to play it anymore) and sat there, waited for 300 res, and kitted my whole team out with the whole lot, mines welders, ha/hmgs sgs whatever they wanted, and simply walked into the hive set up a tf and elec'd it to death <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
GG. lameness for aliens <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b><edits> i don't know what point this post was supposed to make, but i suppose it shows it's not always rines fualt.</edits></b>
farming is usefull when you have so much res it makes hardly a difference anywayz.
2 hive lockdowns ALWAYS pay of if you can keep them. Id o nt think there lame. Most teams are around 9 players each. If 6 to 9 players can't atleast defend another hive area then the one they started in, they deserve to lose painfully.
There is no impossible, anything can be done. So instead of nagging about 2 hive locks, ppl should improvise and try to get them DOWN.
its not that hard. Depends on a few things but still, it can be done. I solo'd to much hive locks alone, getting killed on the last block of a tf or something. imagine if there were 2 simple skulks.
<b><edits> i don't know what point this post was supposed to make, but i suppose it shows it's not always rines fualt.</edits></b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No but it does a good job of proving why you should be CC banned for life <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
GLs, catpacks, sieges.
I fail to see why you had to counter their OCs with an elec tfac in hive. The difference between rines and aliens is that rines have many ways of wiping out static defense at range... aliens lack this ability, instead having to get up close and personal.
Use the res on equipment, not turrets. Every turret you put down was a potential shotgun for your marines, which would've been geared towards your hive.
That turret you place in that hive, its going to stay there until its dead. Its never going to walk up and move to a new location. But shotguns can move around and inflict damage across the whole map.
Yes, its true that its the aliens fault that they let you get a 2 hive lockdown, but nothing they do can entice the marines to finish the game off any faster. Whose fault is that? The lame commander who feels that he should milk the win for all its worth.
I don't see how turret farm lockdowns pay off either. Do those turrets PREVENT a hive from going up? By all means, no. A gorge could sneak in and put it up. Do the turrets take down the hive? Yes, but it'd take a hell of a long time. Does it tell you that a hive is there? By all means yes, but the same thing can be done for <i>free</i> if you scanned it using an obs, or just sent a marine over to take a look. So what do the farms do? The only USEFUL purpose is to kill the occational skulk that is foolish enough to attack it. 1-3 res. Congradulations, you spent 60+ res to get 1 - 3 res in return.
If thats all it needed to do, then why not just stick a res node and phase gate an electrify it? Serves the same purpose at less than half the cost. And, gee, that res could be used to suit up your marines for that last run on the hive you've been meaning to get down for the last 30 minutes.
What's the implication here?: the marine team obviously has really good players if they can do this or the alien team lacks teamwork///has nub players. Comms that bad should be beaten easily since they waste so much res on everything else but upgrades...
I see how doing hive lockdowns and taking forever to finish the game can be quite annoying. But if you run into these kinds of situations just leave because whining about it isn't really going to do much. Pubs are open to players of all sorts and many, who are just learning to command, will eventually learn to finish the games efficiently. (I know i learned my lesson -_-. I used to do mass turret farms but realized it was just a waste of time and res after losing to good players.)
The fourms is where we contribute and learn, and i thought that it would benefit whoever cared to read from a bit of insight from commanders that dared to try something new.
They have to realize that not everything needs to be defended. The old japanese board game 'Go' is described as a sharing game. You can't have the whole board, so don't try to take it. Some places are going to have to give if you're assaulting other places, and that is completely alright as long as you keep the big picture in perspective.
This is my story:
At the start I rushed my marines down to the hive exits and turret farmed them up. Every exit to the hive was covered with turrets, mines, and electrification. Even vent exits were covered. My marines killed stragglers. The aliens were trapped inside their hive. I then captured the entire map.
After that I ordered my marines to wait and not kill the hive. I then expanded on EVERY res node on the map. Every res node had:
-Electirifcation
-3 IP's
-Armory
-Turret factory electrified and upgraded
-Mixed turrets
-Phase Gate
-Observatory
-Comm chair
-Mines
I then made mass electrified turret factories in the alien spawn. Luckily on this server F4 doesn't work so they were stuck spawning in only to die.
Finally my marines called mutiny on me, kicked me out of the comm chair, and sieged the hive (Why'd they siege it? I don't get it -_-;;)
This was the most vile thing I've ever done on NS. A nearly two hour game of torturing the aliens.
This is my story:
At the start I rushed my marines down to the hive exits and turret farmed them up. Every exit to the hive was covered with turrets, mines, and electrification. Even vent exits were covered. My marines killed stragglers. The aliens were trapped inside their hive. I then captured the entire map.
After that I ordered my marines to wait and not kill the hive. I then expanded on EVERY res node on the map. Every res node had:
-Electirifcation
-3 IP's
-Armory
-Turret factory electrified and upgraded
-Mixed turrets
-Phase Gate
-Observatory
-Comm chair
-Mines
I then made mass electrified turret factories in the alien spawn. Luckily on this server F4 doesn't work so they were stuck spawning in only to die.
Finally my marines called mutiny on me, kicked me out of the comm chair, and sieged the hive (Why'd they siege it? I don't get it -_-;;)
This was the most vile thing I've ever done on NS. A nearly two hour game of torturing the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ooooh you are evil! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->