The main balance problem I see in NS is the suckiness of Hive 3. Almost all of the Hive 3 abilities suck ****. They need to unnerf them and then I think the game will get more interesting.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Almost all of the Hive 3 abilities suck ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Xenocide is the ultimate skulk attack, and a very inexpensive base-wrecker. Webs are one of the most powerful abilities in the game. A gorge that knows what it is doing can take on a marine one-on-one. Primal Scream is getting a bunch of huge buffs. It's going to be scary when beta5 rolls around. Acid Rocket- I have to agree with you. Charge is unbelievably powerful when coupled with adrenaline. That might just be the way I play as an Onos, but it works for me.
Okay, so I see two (2) abilities that are a bit weak. One is already in the process of being buffed up, but even including it in our list, that's not "almost all" abilities.
i think NS is balanced if both teams know what they are doing and are equally skilled. the problem i find recently is that with an influx of noobs the skilled players are dominating most pubs. on a server with all regs and teams that have balanced skill the game could go in either direction and usually for more then 30+ minutes
just an example i commed a game on ns_nothing where both teams were equal and it came down to my team having gen, cargo, and MS and i had 5 sieges targeting viaduct constantly with 5 obs's. i was siegeing it for literally 5 minutes beuase the aliens had 5+ gorges with a ton of chambers constantly healing the hive. i won becuase finally a marine was able to sneak to powersilo and get a phasegate in the hive, and at the same time a random rambo went to viaduct and shot a chamber which made the sieges shoot it and kill all 5 gorges so we got both hives at once. but the game lasted 40 minutes becuase we were in a gridlock due to aliens not being able to do anything because marines were as equally skilled and vice versa.
Really? You're actually the first non-"members" I've seen say that (quite possibly including members as well, I can't say for sure). I have, however, seen people of various level say the opposite. The fact that I can't even remember the last idea from I&S that was implemented doesn't exactly help either. Except maybe grenades, but IMO, ideas that can be fully covered with the thread title only really shouldn't count.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Aug 20 2004, 07:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 20 2004, 07:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1.04 had a scaling res model. It didn't work either. Maybe if only aliens got scaling res it would work, but that seems kinda unfair. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know it did, I was here back then too you know. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> However I still felt that 1.04's res model was better than the one we've now. The problem with 1.04 was however that the marines got so rediculess much res in large game even with 2 RTs that they would be able to tech up way too fast. I guess if a scalable model is to be used the upgrade costs need to be scalable too.
The game is unbalanced for larger games and pubs. This has ALWAYS been the case, and reviewing my posts circa 1.0x, it has always been favored towards marines.
Many things have been changed, but the game is still unbalanced. Mainly, the res model is completely indiscriminate towards the size of the marine team, while the res model is discriminate towards the size of the alien team. This is further worsened since a lot of res spent by the the marine team is on global effects, like MT, Armor 1, especially during the ever-important early game. To add insult to injury, skulks have to re-buy their upgrades after they die. Marines do not have to rebuy their Armor 1 or MT upon respawn.
Quote from Dec 1 2002:
"As marine, let's say 9vs9, you have 4 entirely useless CS rejects. The commander who is intelligent doesn't ever give them any equipment, but does make resource nodes when one of them asks for one. The rejects run around and kill stuff, but not effectively at all. But the team is getting TONS of money! In relation of player usefulness to resources received, newbies are GOLD MINES. If your alien enemy team is equally deficient, you have an advantage because of the way marines utilize their resources. Yes, they'll be getting the same amount of resources as you, but this time the newbies will be taking from the alien pool, as how alien resources work."
What has changed in this regard? Essentially nothing. RFK was added but does not come close to correcting inherent alien deficiencies, and gives the marines a little boost too. Plus since then, the effectiveness of alien armor was drastically reduced. What did aliens get in return? 1-hive larger life forms. Whoopde-freakin-do!
20 months later, and the game is still unbalanced in the same direction. Is this acceptable?
the main balance issue is A- people like to play on HUGE servers, and B- people like to suck like none other so they need buffs in pubs, which in turn throws off clan play.
I think the team needs to decide if they want ns to be fun and easy to play on pubs for not the greatest players, or if they want fun balanced games in competive play
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Aug 21 2004, 04:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Aug 21 2004, 04:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the team needs to decide if they want ns to be fun and easy to play on pubs for not the greatest players, or if they want fun balanced games in competive play <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. But I guess it's like a double edged sword here, pub play will attract more players but killing the competative scene even more. Competative play will kill pub play... *shrug*
Or, you know, you could make some slight changes to the competitive mode (can't remember what it's called. The one with FF on and all that). There's nothing wrong with that, and since the game can't be balanced for public and competitive play at the same time when the teams (supposedly) rely on a different amount of teamwork, it's a pretty bad idea to keep insisting that it won't be done.
<!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Aug 21 2004, 03:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Aug 21 2004, 03:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Aug 21 2004, 04:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Aug 21 2004, 04:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the team needs to decide if they want ns to be fun and easy to play on pubs for not the greatest players, or if they want fun balanced games in competive play <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. But I guess it's like a double edged sword here, pub play will attract more players but killing the competative scene even more. Competative play will kill pub play... *shrug* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> but if the game is awesome enough (which I think NS is) I think people will be willing to learn how to be good , and in time the competetive scene will grow
<!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Aug 20 2004, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Aug 20 2004, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually simply making gorges cheapers, like 2 res probably will help too. That way the alien team won't hesitate to plop down an RT and go back to skulk and repeat. As it is now, it really takes quite some time to earn that 10 res, so during most PCWs you would have at least 1 perm gorge. Not to mention this will help pub play too as more people would contirbute with an RT or chamber of some kind. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You would have to balance bile bomb out a well because then anyone can gorge anywhere taking down rts way too fast.
There are many factors in NS... Some features are too weak, some are too strong, and others are not even used (COUGH SENSORY), but all in all, we must wait for beta 5... let's hope it solves most of the problems.
<!--QuoteBegin-SmoodCroozn+Aug 21 2004, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Aug 21 2004, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You would have to balance bile bomb out a well because then anyone can gorge anywhere taking down rts way too fast.
There are many factors in NS... Some features are too weak, some are too strong, and others are not even used (COUGH SENSORY), but all in all, we must wait for beta 5... let's hope it solves most of the problems. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think BB is faster than a skulk biting an RT at all. Right now it's just so utterly boring to eat an RT (My God you even run out of energy). Besides you'll have to consider the time it takes to evolve which makes you a fatty who's basicly free res for marines.
Comments
Xenocide is the ultimate skulk attack, and a very inexpensive base-wrecker.
Webs are one of the most powerful abilities in the game. A gorge that knows what it is doing can take on a marine one-on-one.
Primal Scream is getting a bunch of huge buffs. It's going to be scary when beta5 rolls around.
Acid Rocket- I have to agree with you.
Charge is unbelievably powerful when coupled with adrenaline. That might just be the way I play as an Onos, but it works for me.
Okay, so I see two (2) abilities that are a bit weak. One is already in the process of being buffed up, but even including it in our list, that's not "almost all" abilities.
just an example i commed a game on ns_nothing where both teams were equal and it came down to my team having gen, cargo, and MS and i had 5 sieges targeting viaduct constantly with 5 obs's. i was siegeing it for literally 5 minutes beuase the aliens had 5+ gorges with a ton of chambers constantly healing the hive. i won becuase finally a marine was able to sneak to powersilo and get a phasegate in the hive, and at the same time a random rambo went to viaduct and shot a chamber which made the sieges shoot it and kill all 5 gorges so we got both hives at once. but the game lasted 40 minutes becuase we were in a gridlock due to aliens not being able to do anything because marines were as equally skilled and vice versa.
Really? You're actually the first non-"members" I've seen say that (quite possibly including members as well, I can't say for sure). I have, however, seen people of various level say the opposite.
The fact that I can't even remember the last idea from I&S that was implemented doesn't exactly help either. Except maybe grenades, but IMO, ideas that can be fully covered with the thread title only really shouldn't count.
I know it did, I was here back then too you know. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> However I still felt that 1.04's res model was better than the one we've now. The problem with 1.04 was however that the marines got so rediculess much res in large game even with 2 RTs that they would be able to tech up way too fast. I guess if a scalable model is to be used the upgrade costs need to be scalable too.
Many things have been changed, but the game is still unbalanced. Mainly, the res model is completely indiscriminate towards the size of the marine team, while the res model is discriminate towards the size of the alien team. This is further worsened since a lot of res spent by the the marine team is on global effects, like MT, Armor 1, especially during the ever-important early game. To add insult to injury, skulks have to re-buy their upgrades after they die. Marines do not have to rebuy their Armor 1 or MT upon respawn.
Quote from Dec 1 2002:
"As marine, let's say 9vs9, you have 4 entirely useless CS rejects. The commander who is intelligent doesn't ever give them any equipment, but does make resource nodes when one of them asks for one. The rejects run around and kill stuff, but not effectively at all. But the team is getting TONS of money! In relation of player usefulness to resources received, newbies are GOLD MINES. If your alien enemy team is equally deficient, you have an advantage because of the way marines utilize their resources. Yes, they'll be getting the same amount of resources as you, but this time the newbies will be taking from the alien pool, as how alien resources work."
What has changed in this regard? Essentially nothing. RFK was added but does not come close to correcting inherent alien deficiencies, and gives the marines a little boost too. Plus since then, the effectiveness of alien armor was drastically reduced. What did aliens get in return? 1-hive larger life forms. Whoopde-freakin-do!
20 months later, and the game is still unbalanced in the same direction. Is this acceptable?
I think the team needs to decide if they want ns to be fun and easy to play on pubs for not the greatest players, or if they want fun balanced games in competive play
Agreed. But I guess it's like a double edged sword here, pub play will attract more players but killing the competative scene even more. Competative play will kill pub play... *shrug*
I feel the same way about combat, I might add.
witch is good <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ns does need some new things, i myself, find myself getting extremly bored of ns
Agreed. But I guess it's like a double edged sword here, pub play will attract more players but killing the competative scene even more. Competative play will kill pub play... *shrug* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
but if the game is awesome enough (which I think NS is) I think people will be willing to learn how to be good , and in time the competetive scene will grow
You would have to balance bile bomb out a well because then anyone can gorge anywhere taking down rts way too fast.
There are many factors in NS... Some features are too weak, some are too strong, and others are not even used (COUGH SENSORY), but all in all, we must wait for beta 5... let's hope it solves most of the problems.
There are many factors in NS... Some features are too weak, some are too strong, and others are not even used (COUGH SENSORY), but all in all, we must wait for beta 5... let's hope it solves most of the problems. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think BB is faster than a skulk biting an RT at all. Right now it's just so utterly boring to eat an RT (My God you even run out of energy). Besides you'll have to consider the time it takes to evolve which makes you a fatty who's basicly free res for marines.