<!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me..
<!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up
OK OK i started this thread so what i say is correct. No, i'm just kidding but listen to me anyway.
1. NO GORE RULE?? YOU CAN MAKE ANY MAP YOU WANT. You can make any freaking map you want for NS. Flayra isn't going to come to your house and sabotage your hardrive if you put a corpse in your map.
2. Gore on the HL engine admitedly, isn't likely to be scary unless cleverly or tastefully done.
3. NS is officially meant for a lot of things. Who cares if it's not supposed to be scary. Why should that stop ANYONE from trying to make a scary map. There is DEFINITELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, a way to make scary NS maps without breaking any "rules" but then again, none of these rules apply to someone who just wants to make a map.
4. Remember my "N corridor" reference on bast? don't you guys think that hall alone has a lot of atmosphere? It's done with simple, faint sound (the quiet hiss of the steam escaping the pipe) and good planning. It's cramped. There's only 2 ways out. It's scary. Hera's fog hallway isn't terrifying, but come on, you have to admit it is more intense than most places in NS.
I'm just think that scary stuff is fun and if anyone wants to make a scary map, do it. I'd love to play on it. BTW i've never played doom 3. Silent Hill is the scaryness.
Ok here's an expample. Just an example. I have no idea what sort of map limitations come into lpay here-->
You walk through a corridor lined with numbered doors and one of them is jarred open. You walk inside cautiously and find there is one light, dangling from the ceiling, blinking every so often. It reveals that the walls of the tiny room are lined with glass encased fades. Long dead, they float, suspended in water, but they seem to stare at you as you go deeper into the darkness.
Yes you can make any map you want. If you desire your map to become official, you must stick to the guidelines. Rules are rules.
I think that is possibly the best NS screenie I have ever seen lol. Not scary really, but, as someone said, spooky. Spooky is as good as it gets for me in NS generally.
The only time I feel scared is when comming. Therefore all NS maps scare me. Easily satisfied, me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: And er...yes you could do what you described ^^. I personally think maps with aliens in tubes suck. A great looking map can be ruined by the less than perfect models of aliens/humans that are stuck in glorified test tubes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry
A really fast flicker, like.. well you know if you go into a club, and they've got that flickering light that will give you sizures? Yeah, one of those. They make everything move really, really choppy and it looks so cool. I usually stand there and look at my hands and move them a bit when they turn on, its really neat, and it'd be fun to have it flicker a lot, then turn off for two seconds, then flicker again. And I mean flicker light, to complete darkness. It'd be fun to try and shoot a skulk like that, and it would have the advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame.
Scary was the first 15 minutes of Half-Life single player. The tram ride, the FBI agent looking at me through the door I couldnt open or the first time I had a snark chasing me into the elevator shaft.
Thats why I'm still playing H-L and its mods. Scary or spooky can be achieved in manys ways, especialy in NS, but I dont see a lot of that quality in many maps anymore.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ha.ze+Aug 14 2004, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ha.ze @ Aug 14 2004, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!!
I think I just had an aneurysm! brain explosion! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no, this quote in quote isnt funny any more <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
doom 3 isnt scary for mendasp? I just played it some hours at a friends pc. you never walked into the toilet after the accident mendasp, dont you? when you look at yourself in the mirror... I nearly felt off my chair!
back to topic: blood is scary. if is YOUR blood <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> the most terrifying thing is the fact that you cant see anything that is bad. but you EXSPECT anything like that. that is where the whole scene becomes... unstable. you WANT to see something scary but there is nothing. this tension can be taken to the climax by adding simple effects. best example is the corridor on bast, leading from refinery hive to the main aft elevator. the first time this steamjet started, my heard nearly stopped to beat.
the "problem" with ns is, that the alien players often dont play alien, they play marines with jaws instead of a lmg. thats why the game isnt as scary as it could be.
scaryness is something which can be achived by maps, but what would be the point in it? if you play a map several times, you know it, you know what to expect, how the map looks etc. and then a map isn't spooky or scary or whatsoever anymore. And you also can't get that back by adding lots of gorge, or blood. Because you are used to it. Sure you could create a creepy atmosphere, but a creepy atmosphere is not everything. I you play a map for a while, you know the hiding spots, know where to look etc. I recall the days when sensory was choosen at first because of it's cloaking effect. That made a really scary atmosphere for a while, because you had to expect a cloaked skulk everywhere. But then the usual habit got away from sc first. Scaryness is nothing you can only achive by the map itself. especially when it's a static map. To keep up a constant level of scaryness over time, you need the momentum of surprise. And that would require dynamic maps and a forced scary gameplay. You try to compare doom3 with ns. well doom3 is scary for you because you havn't played it much yet. Go and play it several times, and it won't be scary to you anymore.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 12 2004, 10:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 12 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what makes a scarymap:
-Dynamic lighting (such as flickering lights, shadow'd areas) -Ambience sound in background -BLOOD -screaming -MORE BLOOD -dead bodies -EVEN MORE BLOOD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I bet you I could make a scary map with no blood, screaming or dead bodies.
Think about the first section of SS2. That was pretty scary, and yet there was almost no blood, and only one dead body. And those weren't what was scary.
I have a dream map in my head called ns_tunnels. I am not a mapmaker and I don't know how to make those things but I have really simple idea. The map is in very deep underground with narrow tunnles and big elevator tunnel in te middle what is very long. Tunnels are very dark and you have to use your flashlights, there are little red spots but these things are not for lighting, but for leading the way for aliens. To get the lights on (which are not very powerfull) you have to go through really narrow and dark tunnel where is very deep tunnel what goes straight down, at the end. I am pixelling the map of this map in ms paint and when i it is done, then I want to hear your opininon and mybe i can find some mapmakers then XD.
But really scary map is what you dont know, a map what you havent played. That means that servers should change the maps in every week or so to custom maps... And also turn your damn gamma off.
Edit: But adding ambient music is a bad idea, at least it wont work on me.. Complete silence is better and much scarier. And I find ambient music beautiful and start listening it... Music does not work on me bechause I am too much fond of music and I begin to analyze it... Blood doesnt add scariness bechause i have seen blood in other games and they were not scary, and anyway... blood is a bad idea.
Now to the point. To make NS scarier (I have said this before somwhere), you have to put limits on respawning. Right now, marines or aliens dont care if they die or not and so they wont take the game seriously and there goes scaryness too then... They just die and they can respawn and attack again, they dont watch their step. If you put limits on respawning and make so that creatures can respawn only few times, then it would be scary.
Oh, and one thing more.. When you play against to aliens, then it isn't scary bechause you know that aliens are other people and you know how other people react..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now to the point. To make NS scarier (I have said this before somwhere), you have to put limits on respawning. Right now, marines or aliens dont care if they die or not and so they wont take the game seriously and there goes scaryness too then... They just die and they can respawn and attack again, they dont watch their step. If you put limits on respawning and make so that creatures can respawn only few times, then it would be scary.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Please no. just think about that for a while. u know what it would lead to? mass camping. camp camp camp, because the other guy is camping too etc etc uve prolly played cs or dod.
<!--QuoteBegin-Insane+Aug 14 2004, 06:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ Aug 14 2004, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 12 2004, 10:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 12 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what makes a scarymap:
-Dynamic lighting (such as flickering lights, shadow'd areas) -Ambience sound in background -BLOOD -screaming -MORE BLOOD -dead bodies -EVEN MORE BLOOD <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I bet you I could make a scary map with no blood, screaming or dead bodies.
Think about the first section of SS2. That was pretty scary, and yet there was almost no blood, and only one dead body. And those weren't what was scary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. In my pesonal experience I find that the most scary levels in a game that attempts to scare you are the areas where there is no trace of the people that were there prior to your arrival. Just stuff that would suggest that they were there, half empty coffe pots still steaming, open magazines and such. You can frighten people with little to no "gore".
<!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...]Complete silence is better and much scarier. [...] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes. silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds. sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt.Gravity+Aug 15 2004, 12:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Gravity @ Aug 15 2004, 12:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...]Complete silence is better and much scarier. [...] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes. silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds. sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I fully agree. I added the ambient sounds last in my map and I was really surprised at how much they added to the ambience and it almost made it feel like I was there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt.Gravity+Aug 15 2004, 06:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Gravity @ Aug 15 2004, 06:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Aug 14 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...]Complete silence is better and much scarier. [...] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes. silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds. sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, now imagine a place where you hear only your footsteps when you are walking in a dark room, and suddenly silenced skulk comes and kills you with no sound at all, bang and dead... and with no sound, i ment music, music as ambient music. Music is something what I take very seriously and I just take it as a music and start analyzing it, not take it as an atmosphere.. Right now, music what I have heard isnt scary at all, its like chill ambient moods, if you really want to add some music into it with no other opinion, then I suggest better dark ambient music bechause it really is spooky, not some cool ambient moods what is imagenary music where you imagine yourself in outer space etc.. And also those tryings of adding orchestral movie bacround music doesnt work. They only work when they are in right places. But you dont know how the game is and each game is diffferent, so you cannot add it.. Have you ever experienced complete silence? Actually there is no complete silence, you even hear your own blood moveing if there is nothing else to hear but you still hear something. And that may be spooky. But with no sound I ment more like deleting the music, but leaving the whisteling coffe can and working engine sounds etc.. Bechause music doesnt add reality actually, and reality is spookyness. You think, hey, where that music comes..
Ok, now to my idea. Have you ever seen those horror movies where is some spooky house and some nice funny droll music is playing and suddenly there is blood everywhere. Or have you ever seen Tšernobõl? The houses are left right as they were, like people still living in there. Old family pictures still hanging on the walls, bookselfs full of books, unemptied ash tray stil on the table where were just eaten and plates are still there... Thats what I am talking about. Somone mentioned that idea before here somwhere... Like adding whisteling coffe can and ash trays and a happy record playing and no people, only those aliens who ruined the electric systems and there are no lights.. There is darkness and happy music is playing from the radio or somwhere and suddenly you step on something and...
Like a hotel on Mars or something what was left as the catastrophy in that structure took place, the kharaas.. Oh, and you may add some kharaa eaten human body somwhere too bechause there was catastrophy you know... Yes, that would be cool, happy music is playing, coffe can is whisteling and it is dark and suddenly you discover eaten dead body in font of you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What i am saying is that, that spooky music (what now isnt so spooky for me) just helps you to get by with that horrifieing spookyness. You should add some slow happy moods or some trip-hop moods or something to create happy mood for marines when they discover that.. and die with great blenched fright.. Do you know why in asia, they drink tea when it is hot? Well, when you drink something cold, then your body is cold and air is hot, and you can feel the difference better. But when you drink hot and the air is hot too, the you dont feel the difference between those two things and you dont swet and you feel normal. The same thing is here, in NS, the atmosphere and mood should be different so that player feels the difference and begins to fear.
And aslo, imagine a complete dark room, there are only holes on the ceilings what lead to the surface and bright light is coming down, only that little spot. Around those spots, there is complete darkness, so that would give nice effect when the skulk is running there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Yesterday night I played very good map what was pretty scary andpretty big and interesting. ns_andromeda beta2. Well, it was on beta stage and there were bugs but the map was good, really good. There was that life atmosphere inthat, like people have been there and stuff. And many places were dark and you can turn the lights on/off and stuff. I specially liked the train in there, but they way of it was short and I could not see the point of it though...
But another problem in the maps are that they are boring. Only athmosphere is done with sounds so far.. Maps are empty, there are only those corridors and hallways with some containours in it. Most emptyer and boring map for me is ns_caged what is really empty. there are few computers where are few chairs and that is all. All other places are empty corridors where i cannot see point of these. If you create a map, then i suggest to think of what that map was used before the kharaas invasion took place.. I mean, all maps are just empty rooms where i cannot see point, why would anyone want to live or work in empty room? There cannot be any work done in empty room.. And I doupt that when the aliens invasion in there was discovered, humans had time to remove all the furniture and stuff... Mapmakers should think of the way of the map, they should think of the use of the place like that, they should think of the use of the rooms and adding life to them. Right now, they are just rooms. Rooms where are only empty walls.. I mean, when it is a resting room, then then there should be some couches and carpets but not those metallic textures.. Who would want to resti in the metallic cargo storage uh?
"Scares" and "Multiplayer" don't go together. You can cram in all the particle systems, blood decals, ambient_generics and damaged architecture you like; when you're running around with players of assorted ages, who spout "LOLZ! ONOSO ETT MEEEE!", fear goes out the window.
The way most of the discussion in here is going it sounds like y'all are just loading up the multiplayer map and walking around it like it's a single player map. When you are actually in a game how often do you actually go stare out the window to see outside details? Or count the number of wires and computers and such in a coridor when you are being chased by a fade. One reason there isn't as much detail in multiplayer maps is simply because multiplayer is ment to be fast paced. There is little point in going into fully detailing a map if people will rarely notice the details. In a single player map however you can take it at any pace you want and details are a very important part of immersion. Anyone doing single player mapping knows that they need to add all the ambiant sounds and details. It's just not as important to add everything in a multiplayer map. Natural-Selection presents a further complication in that it's already stretched the HL engine to it's breaking point. While I know many level designers could put a few more entities towards details and such it is still quite a ballancing act trying to ballance out entity counts, wpoly counts, and all the map compilling limits such as planes and light data.
Speaking of single player maps, anyone know what sort of effect the nightwatch maps are going for? With so many ns folks involved, I couldn't see the maps being anything less than ambient masterpieces. Is it going to be a straight run and gun, or more of a paced out exploration type game? (and is it ever going to be finished? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I think that NS can definitely be scary. kabuum, although your english leaves something to be desired, i really liked alot of your ideas. I wish i had the talent to put them into a map. I'm going to try that map your suggested.
I've never played a map that's really tried to be scary. I definitely think it would work.
<!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Aug 15 2004, 07:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Aug 15 2004, 07:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, now imagine a place where you hear only your footsteps when you are walking in a dark room, and suddenly silenced skulk comes and kills you with no sound at all, bang and dead... and with no sound, i ment music, music as ambient music. Music is something what I take very seriously and I just take it as a music and start analyzing it, not take it as an atmosphere.. Right now, music what I have heard isnt scary at all, its like chill ambient moods, if you really want to add some music into it with no other opinion, then I suggest better dark ambient music bechause it really is spooky, not some cool ambient moods what is imagenary music where you imagine yourself in outer space etc.. And also those tryings of adding orchestral movie bacround music doesnt work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> we are NOT talking about music. the most mappers dont have the time/skill to create their own music. so we are talking about ambient SOUNDS here. and sounds are never wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 14 2004, 07:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 14 2004, 07:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ha.ze+Aug 14 2004, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ha.ze @ Aug 14 2004, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Aug 13 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Aug 13 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-brute_force+Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 13 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 13 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Red-I+Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red-I @ Aug 13 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that aint scary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!!
I think I just had an aneurysm! brain explosion! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/edit - thought it was six! but it's 7 WOOT! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!
That roxors my soxors right ofxors..
btw - on topic....erm...Scary maps rock...don't forget:
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Aug 15 2004, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Aug 15 2004, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Speaking of single player maps, anyone know what sort of effect the nightwatch maps are going for? With so many ns folks involved, I couldn't see the maps being anything less than ambient masterpieces. Is it going to be a straight run and gun, or more of a paced out exploration type game? (and is it ever going to be finished? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, Adam Foster is inolved, so I'm confident that it will be the latter to a larger extent. One of the features they're pushing is that you should be able to play it in whatever style you like, so perhaps both could be an option depending on how you want to do things.
Hanz, do you really have to keep pimping your map here? Can't you make your own thread for it or something?
Well, my english is yeah, maybe little too rushed or something like that...ah never mind..
But talking about not looking out of the window, then I must say that I look out of the window. Then why the hell those windows are there? Maps should be only boxes, that would be cool (sarcasm). The fade is not attacking you all the time and i must say that I look maps very much. Call me wanderer if you like though... I like the windows in ns_ayumi very much. Most of the time you are seeking for resources and wandering around. And you see pretty much looking for skulks.
Oh, I have much to say but my eyes hurt and I must clear my mind now.. Ahh those good food smells..mmmm...
Ahh, **** that, I write my post, even if it is not so clear and I dunno what more....
Hmm, the multyplayer maps ment for fast playing? I dont like fast games, I like long games where you must put much effort in it. And why the hell did you make the NS with aliens what eat marines and stuff, why not man vs man with superfast speed and with plasma guns etc like quake or something if it is only "fast playing"? I have understood that NS wants to be different, then why are there biting aliens and some strategy elemnts in that FPS if it is not ment to be different. Why not to make multyplayer game where you can take it easy and scary. Then why the hell was this topic made if the NS isnt trying to be scary and different? People want it different. Why dont you play quake or unreal tournament if you want fast playing? All strategy games are slow and need lots of effort to play. NS isnt just the ordinary FPS. And i love 4 hour maps. I just finished one and it was sooo goood..
kabumm, i know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I love stalemates that are won only after hours of battling from room to room. I also agree with you when you say that detail is important. Anyone else find themselves looking out into space on ns_lost? i thought those were some sweet windows. I seriously think so much more can be achieved in these maps.
<!--QuoteBegin-Foxtrot_Uniform+Aug 16 2004, 10:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Foxtrot_Uniform @ Aug 16 2004, 10:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> kabumm, i know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I love stalemates that are won only after hours of battling from room to room. I also agree with you when you say that detail is important. Anyone else find themselves looking out into space on ns_lost? i thought those were some sweet windows. I seriously think so much more can be achieved in these maps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... exept you have a map as big as ns_source and you have to pray every day that the rad wont refuse calculating your light because of the huge amount of faces. but for co maps it should be ok.
kabumm I dont think anyone read your "2 pages of webbrowser" post, butI like your statement "Im like a wanderer". most of the mappers dont get the idea. this game is about exploration. you have to FIND OUT what is wrong on the map. you have to FIND out where the hives are, where possible lockdownpositions are, resnozzles...
a map that has got interesting looks will be much more fun to play for most players. but it seems that everyone want to hear the 5 voices out of the community that say "detailed maps cant be usedfor competitive play. just make three boxes, each with XXX-mount of resnozzles, then mirrow it." all I can say to this people (no matter if its player or mapper): If you like boxes, go play tetris!
and I will support any try to make a decent map. its a nice thing to see at least some people like rendy or moultano that create maps with a feel. this maps are the proove for all the work the mappers spend on, the ideas they had, they are creating some kind of "trueth" for natural selection. why this is so important? weapons are equal within the mods. the <u>MAPS</u> make a big difference. never forget. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Look at the first level of Unreal. Screaming, Smashed up consoles, Flickering lights, Mostly darkness, Shadows of things to come.
Now naturally this is a single player game right? So feeling alone is impossible in MP unless ofcourse your the last marine alive.
Now just because we have to remove that factor dosen't mean it won't be scary. Lighting, sounds, Shadows. These are the main factors to a scary map.
Don't give us **** about how Flayra decided to make the game PG, its stupid. Who cares if a map isn't offical. If it is a damn good map that is scary it could be on the Map cycle on almost every server. Look at the Ns trialer for example. That looks scary don't you agree? Now look at the game. What a let down.
If NS2 follows the same "pg because we want little 5 year olds playing! -_-" rule I will be setting my local computer store on fire. Don't ruin game play for others just for some whiney voices...
Comments
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me..
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up
1. NO GORE RULE?? YOU CAN MAKE ANY MAP YOU WANT. You can make any freaking map you want for NS. Flayra isn't going to come to your house and sabotage your hardrive if you put a corpse in your map.
2. Gore on the HL engine admitedly, isn't likely to be scary unless cleverly or tastefully done.
3. NS is officially meant for a lot of things. Who cares if it's not supposed to be scary. Why should that stop ANYONE from trying to make a scary map. There is DEFINITELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, a way to make scary NS maps without breaking any "rules" but then again, none of these rules apply to someone who just wants to make a map.
4. Remember my "N corridor" reference on bast? don't you guys think that hall alone has a lot of atmosphere? It's done with simple, faint sound (the quiet hiss of the steam escaping the pipe) and good planning. It's cramped. There's only 2 ways out. It's scary. Hera's fog hallway isn't terrifying, but come on, you have to admit it is more intense than most places in NS.
I'm just think that scary stuff is fun and if anyone wants to make a scary map, do it. I'd love to play on it. BTW i've never played doom 3. Silent Hill is the scaryness.
Ok here's an expample. Just an example. I have no idea what sort of map limitations come into lpay here-->
You walk through a corridor lined with numbered doors and one of them is jarred open. You walk inside cautiously and find there is one light, dangling from the ceiling, blinking every so often. It reveals that the walls of the tiny room are lined with glass encased fades. Long dead, they float, suspended in water, but they seem to stare at you as you go deeper into the darkness.
I think that is possibly the best NS screenie I have ever seen lol. Not scary really, but, as someone said, spooky. Spooky is as good as it gets for me in NS generally.
The only time I feel scared is when comming. Therefore all NS maps scare me. Easily satisfied, me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: And er...yes you could do what you described ^^. I personally think maps with aliens in tubes suck. A great looking map can be ruined by the less than perfect models of aliens/humans that are stuck in glorified test tubes.
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame.
Thats why I'm still playing H-L and its mods. Scary or spooky can be achieved in manys ways, especialy in NS, but I dont see a lot of that quality in many maps anymore.
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!!
I think I just had an aneurysm! brain explosion! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/edit - thought it was six! but it's 7 WOOT!
doom 3 isnt scary for mendasp? I just played it some hours at a friends pc. you never walked into the toilet after the accident mendasp, dont you? when you look at yourself in the mirror... I nearly felt off my chair!
back to topic:
blood is scary. if is YOUR blood <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> the most terrifying thing is the fact that you cant see anything that is bad. but you EXSPECT anything like that. that is where the whole scene becomes... unstable. you WANT to see something scary but there is nothing. this tension can be taken to the climax by adding simple effects. best example is the corridor on bast, leading from refinery hive to the main aft elevator. the first time this steamjet started, my heard nearly stopped to beat.
the "problem" with ns is, that the alien players often dont play alien, they play marines with jaws instead of a lmg. thats why the game isnt as scary as it could be.
if you play a map several times, you know it, you know what to expect, how the map looks etc. and then a map isn't spooky or scary or whatsoever anymore. And you also can't get that back by adding lots of gorge, or blood. Because you are used to it. Sure you could create a creepy atmosphere, but a creepy atmosphere is not everything.
I you play a map for a while, you know the hiding spots, know where to look etc. I recall the days when sensory was choosen at first because of it's cloaking effect. That made a really scary atmosphere for a while, because you had to expect a cloaked skulk everywhere. But then the usual habit got away from sc first.
Scaryness is nothing you can only achive by the map itself. especially when it's a static map. To keep up a constant level of scaryness over time, you need the momentum of surprise. And that would require dynamic maps and a forced scary gameplay.
You try to compare doom3 with ns. well doom3 is scary for you because you havn't played it much yet. Go and play it several times, and it won't be scary to you anymore.
-Dynamic lighting (such as flickering lights, shadow'd areas)
-Ambience sound in background
-BLOOD
-screaming
-MORE BLOOD
-dead bodies
-EVEN MORE BLOOD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I bet you I could make a scary map with no blood, screaming or dead bodies.
Think about the first section of SS2. That was pretty scary, and yet there was almost no blood, and only one dead body. And those weren't what was scary.
But really scary map is what you dont know, a map what you havent played. That means that servers should change the maps in every week or so to custom maps... And also turn your damn gamma off.
Edit:
But adding ambient music is a bad idea, at least it wont work on me.. Complete silence is better and much scarier. And I find ambient music beautiful and start listening it... Music does not work on me bechause I am too much fond of music and I begin to analyze it...
Blood doesnt add scariness bechause i have seen blood in other games and they were not scary, and anyway... blood is a bad idea.
Now to the point. To make NS scarier (I have said this before somwhere), you have to put limits on respawning. Right now, marines or aliens dont care if they die or not and so they wont take the game seriously and there goes scaryness too then... They just die and they can respawn and attack again, they dont watch their step. If you put limits on respawning and make so that creatures can respawn only few times, then it would be scary.
Oh, and one thing more.. When you play against to aliens, then it isn't scary bechause you know that aliens are other people and you know how other people react..
Thanks for attention.
No. Please no. just think about that for a while. u know what it would lead to? mass camping. camp camp camp, because the other guy is camping too etc etc uve prolly played cs or dod.
-Dynamic lighting (such as flickering lights, shadow'd areas)
-Ambience sound in background
-BLOOD
-screaming
-MORE BLOOD
-dead bodies
-EVEN MORE BLOOD <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I bet you I could make a scary map with no blood, screaming or dead bodies.
Think about the first section of SS2. That was pretty scary, and yet there was almost no blood, and only one dead body. And those weren't what was scary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. In my pesonal experience I find that the most scary levels in a game that attempts to scare you are the areas where there is no trace of the people that were there prior to your arrival. Just stuff that would suggest that they were there, half empty coffe pots still steaming, open magazines and such. You can frighten people with little to no "gore".
where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes.
silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds.
sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere.
where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes.
silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds.
sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully agree. I added the ambient sounds last in my map and I was really surprised at how much they added to the ambience and it almost made it feel like I was there.
where are you from? thats absolutely nonsense in my eyes.
silence COULD be scary, if the rest of the map is loud and noisy. if the map is completely quiet... than I would call anybody creating this map a newbie because he didnt got the idea behind ambient sounds.
sounds are a "must have" within ANY map. there are part of the environment/atmosphere. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, now imagine a place where you hear only your footsteps when you are walking in a dark room, and suddenly silenced skulk comes and kills you with no sound at all, bang and dead... and with no sound, i ment music, music as ambient music. Music is something what I take very seriously and I just take it as a music and start analyzing it, not take it as an atmosphere.. Right now, music what I have heard isnt scary at all, its like chill ambient moods, if you really want to add some music into it with no other opinion, then I suggest better dark ambient music bechause it really is spooky, not some cool ambient moods what is imagenary music where you imagine yourself in outer space etc.. And also those tryings of adding orchestral movie bacround music doesnt work. They only work when they are in right places. But you dont know how the game is and each game is diffferent, so you cannot add it..
Have you ever experienced complete silence? Actually there is no complete silence, you even hear your own blood moveing if there is nothing else to hear but you still hear something. And that may be spooky.
But with no sound I ment more like deleting the music, but leaving the whisteling coffe can and working engine sounds etc.. Bechause music doesnt add reality actually, and reality is spookyness. You think, hey, where that music comes..
Ok, now to my idea. Have you ever seen those horror movies where is some spooky house and some nice funny droll music is playing and suddenly there is blood everywhere. Or have you ever seen Tšernobõl? The houses are left right as they were, like people still living in there. Old family pictures still hanging on the walls, bookselfs full of books, unemptied ash tray stil on the table where were just eaten and plates are still there... Thats what I am talking about. Somone mentioned that idea before here somwhere... Like adding whisteling coffe can and ash trays and a happy record playing and no people, only those aliens who ruined the electric systems and there are no lights.. There is darkness and happy music is playing from the radio or somwhere and suddenly you step on something and...
Like a hotel on Mars or something what was left as the catastrophy in that structure took place, the kharaas.. Oh, and you may add some kharaa eaten human body somwhere too bechause there was catastrophy you know...
Yes, that would be cool, happy music is playing, coffe can is whisteling and it is dark and suddenly you discover eaten dead body in font of you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What i am saying is that, that spooky music (what now isnt so spooky for me) just helps you to get by with that horrifieing spookyness. You should add some slow happy moods or some trip-hop moods or something to create happy mood for marines when they discover that.. and die with great blenched fright..
Do you know why in asia, they drink tea when it is hot? Well, when you drink something cold, then your body is cold and air is hot, and you can feel the difference better. But when you drink hot and the air is hot too, the you dont feel the difference between those two things and you dont swet and you feel normal. The same thing is here, in NS, the atmosphere and mood should be different so that player feels the difference and begins to fear.
And aslo, imagine a complete dark room, there are only holes on the ceilings what lead to the surface and bright light is coming down, only that little spot. Around those spots, there is complete darkness, so that would give nice effect when the skulk is running there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Yesterday night I played very good map what was pretty scary andpretty big and interesting. ns_andromeda beta2. Well, it was on beta stage and there were bugs but the map was good, really good. There was that life atmosphere inthat, like people have been there and stuff. And many places were dark and you can turn the lights on/off and stuff. I specially liked the train in there, but they way of it was short and I could not see the point of it though...
But another problem in the maps are that they are boring. Only athmosphere is done with sounds so far.. Maps are empty, there are only those corridors and hallways with some containours in it. Most emptyer and boring map for me is ns_caged what is really empty. there are few computers where are few chairs and that is all. All other places are empty corridors where i cannot see point of these.
If you create a map, then i suggest to think of what that map was used before the kharaas invasion took place.. I mean, all maps are just empty rooms where i cannot see point, why would anyone want to live or work in empty room? There cannot be any work done in empty room.. And I doupt that when the aliens invasion in there was discovered, humans had time to remove all the furniture and stuff...
Mapmakers should think of the way of the map, they should think of the use of the place like that, they should think of the use of the rooms and adding life to them. Right now, they are just rooms. Rooms where are only empty walls..
I mean, when it is a resting room, then then there should be some couches and carpets but not those metallic textures.. Who would want to resti in the metallic cargo storage uh?
Leave it to the Silent Hills etc.
In a single player map however you can take it at any pace you want and details are a very important part of immersion. Anyone doing single player mapping knows that they need to add all the ambiant sounds and details. It's just not as important to add everything in a multiplayer map. Natural-Selection presents a further complication in that it's already stretched the HL engine to it's breaking point. While I know many level designers could put a few more entities towards details and such it is still quite a ballancing act trying to ballance out entity counts, wpoly counts, and all the map compilling limits such as planes and light data.
Die.
I've never played a map that's really tried to be scary. I definitely think it would work.
we are NOT talking about music. the most mappers dont have the time/skill to create their own music. so we are talking about ambient SOUNDS here. and sounds are never wrong.
DooM 3 isn't scary either... unless you're 10, then it may be scary... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously he is 10 if he thinks "blood, more blood and even more blood" and dead bodies are scary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't have much to say...I just like seeing quote in quote in quote
although, doom3 scared me :|... mendasp, hold me.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just wanted to see one more quote
but on an on topic note i rekon doom3 will be scary, havent played it yet, only just released here today (damn UK) not scary in the environments only but when a bad guy just jumps infront of u from round a corner and u have no idea he was gonna be there with all the environment enhancements to make it a little more scary, always shits me up <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't beat a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote! That roxors my soxors right ofxors! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On topic tho...wait, I have nothing to say...sorry <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OOC: I'm going to shat myself so many times playing Doom3 its not even funny. But it will be fun.. the one thing they need on that game is a co-op mode, which is a shame that they looked that over. Nothing makes you more brave than a buddy next to you, but nothing gets you more scared when your suddenly split up from him, then he pops around the corner, you two start talking and something just leaps out of the shadows and scares the living hell out of you in your false state of security.
And the N Corridor was the inspiration of every map I made that I havent shown here. It was cool, but I only knew how to do brushwork. A shame. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!!
I think I just had an aneurysm! brain explosion! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/edit - thought it was six! but it's 7 WOOT! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote in a Quote!
That roxors my soxors right ofxors..
btw - on topic....erm...Scary maps rock...don't forget:
Well, Adam Foster is inolved, so I'm confident that it will be the latter to a larger extent. One of the features they're pushing is that you should be able to play it in whatever style you like, so perhaps both could be an option depending on how you want to do things.
Hanz, do you really have to keep pimping your map here? Can't you make your own thread for it or something?
But talking about not looking out of the window, then I must say that I look out of the window. Then why the hell those windows are there? Maps should be only boxes, that would be cool (sarcasm). The fade is not attacking you all the time and i must say that I look maps very much. Call me wanderer if you like though...
I like the windows in ns_ayumi very much. Most of the time you are seeking for resources and wandering around. And you see pretty much looking for skulks.
Oh, I have much to say but my eyes hurt and I must clear my mind now..
Ahh those good food smells..mmmm...
Ahh, **** that, I write my post, even if it is not so clear and I dunno what more....
Hmm, the multyplayer maps ment for fast playing? I dont like fast games, I like long games where you must put much effort in it. And why the hell did you make the NS with aliens what eat marines and stuff, why not man vs man with superfast speed and with plasma guns etc like quake or something if it is only "fast playing"? I have understood that NS wants to be different, then why are there biting aliens and some strategy elemnts in that FPS if it is not ment to be different. Why not to make multyplayer game where you can take it easy and scary. Then why the hell was this topic made if the NS isnt trying to be scary and different? People want it different. Why dont you play quake or unreal tournament if you want fast playing? All strategy games are slow and need lots of effort to play. NS isnt just the ordinary FPS.
And i love 4 hour maps. I just finished one and it was sooo goood..
Ok, got to go now...
... exept you have a map as big as ns_source and you have to pray every day that the rad wont refuse calculating your light because of the huge amount of faces.
but for co maps it should be ok.
kabumm I dont think anyone read your "2 pages of webbrowser" post, butI like your statement "Im like a wanderer". most of the mappers dont get the idea. this game is about exploration. you have to FIND OUT what is wrong on the map. you have to FIND out where the hives are, where possible lockdownpositions are, resnozzles...
a map that has got interesting looks will be much more fun to play for most players.
but it seems that everyone want to hear the 5 voices out of the community that say "detailed maps cant be usedfor competitive play. just make three boxes, each with XXX-mount of resnozzles, then mirrow it." all I can say to this people (no matter if its player or mapper): If you like boxes, go play tetris!
and I will support any try to make a decent map. its a nice thing to see at least some people like rendy or moultano that create maps with a feel. this maps are the proove for all the work the mappers spend on, the ideas they had, they are creating some kind of "trueth" for natural selection. why this is so important? weapons are equal within the mods. the <u>MAPS</u> make a big difference. never forget. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Look at the first level of Unreal. Screaming, Smashed up consoles, Flickering lights, Mostly darkness, Shadows of things to come.
Now naturally this is a single player game right? So feeling alone is impossible in MP unless ofcourse your the last marine alive.
Now just because we have to remove that factor dosen't mean it won't be scary. Lighting, sounds, Shadows. These are the main factors to a scary map.
Don't give us **** about how Flayra decided to make the game PG, its stupid. Who cares if a map isn't offical. If it is a damn good map that is scary it could be on the Map cycle on almost every server. Look at the Ns trialer for example. That looks scary don't you agree? Now look at the game. What a let down.
If NS2 follows the same "pg because we want little 5 year olds playing! -_-" rule I will be setting my local computer store on fire. Don't ruin game play for others just for some whiney voices...