Combat Is Not Balanced

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  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Thread Title+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thread Title)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat Is Not Balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Who gives a flying F#&@<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> The fact that people even CONSIDER combat when thinking of ideas and suggestions gives me the creeps. NS is more important people... and if it isn't to you, go back to bunny hopping in HLDM.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thread Title+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thread Title)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat Is Not Balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Who gives a flying F#&@<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> The fact that people even CONSIDER combat when thinking of ideas and suggestions gives me the creeps. NS is more important people... and if it isn't to you, go back to bunny hopping in HLDM. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    thank you, you totally hit the nail on the head.

    combat is meant to be a sidenot to the mod. a little tiny bity blip that people play to entertain themsefles every now and then NOT THE MAIN GAME

    its good enough now
  • DementedDemented Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18573Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thread Title+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thread Title)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat Is Not Balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Who gives a flying F#&@<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> The fact that people even CONSIDER combat when thinking of ideas and suggestions gives me the creeps. NS is more important people... and if it isn't to you, go back to bunny hopping in HLDM. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You shouldn't neglect combat completly either. Its arguably quite balanced, and at any rate moreso than NS classic, which has yet to be balanced. Its the fades and lategame marines that need to be fixed (What about allowing marines to advance beyond Lvl 10?). Too much NS classic gets a little dull anyway.
  • Seph_KimaraSeph_Kimara Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Demented+Aug 15 2004, 07:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Demented @ Aug 15 2004, 07:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Aug 14 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thread Title+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thread Title)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat Is Not Balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Who gives a flying F#&@<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> The fact that people even CONSIDER combat when thinking of ideas and suggestions gives me the creeps. NS is more important people... and if it isn't to you, go back to bunny hopping in HLDM. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You shouldn't neglect combat completly either. Its arguably quite balanced, and at any rate moreso than NS classic, which has yet to be balanced. Its the fades and lategame marines that need to be fixed (What about allowing marines to advance beyond Lvl 10?). Too much NS classic gets a little dull anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    FORSOOTH! THOU HAST OFFENDED THE GREAT GODS BY SAYING THAT CLASSIC CAN GET DULL AND THAT COMBAT SHOULD BE REGARDED! BLASPHEMER! BURN FOR YOUR SINS! BURN!

    <span style='font-size:5pt;line-height:100%'>AKA "omgWTH ololol combat sux ns rox" people peeve me</span>
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    Demented... all combat is doing is keeping ideas and suggestions that would do NS a great deal of good from being implimented.

    "Such and such would greatly help the LA/LMG > Skulk issue"

    "WAHT EBOUT TEH COMBATZZZZ WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!112"


    Now... Everyone look at the gorge and feel less angery.

    <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    no... Urge... to kill... still rising.... more gorges!


    <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    ahhhh much better...
  • IcenorIcenor Join Date: 2004-08-16 Member: 30653Members
    What I find most annoying is the fact that theres no effectiv counter weapon against Fades.
    And Fades that are fast, heavly armored, and got a good melee attack have no real weakness are hard as hell to kill.

    Why isnt there any Marine version of web? To counter the Fades hit and run tactics.
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
    edited August 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Icenor+Aug 17 2004, 02:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Icenor @ Aug 17 2004, 02:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What I find most annoying is the fact that theres no effectiv counter weapon against Fades.
    And Fades that are fast, heavly armored, and got a good melee attack have no real weakness are hard as hell to kill.

    Why isnt there any Marine version of web? To counter the Fades hit and run tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah your right, and its not really that they are heavily armoured tho, its the fact that a good player will always blink out before he is near death.

    When I play co, I usually only die a very few times every game, and the skill of the other team only affects my kill score.

    EDIT: To simplify, they will only stop me killing them, but they will never kill me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ModChaosControlModChaosControl HiveMind NS bot creator Join Date: 2004-03-31 Member: 27613Members
    I dont see an issue with combat.
  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-keep it *G*angsta+Aug 17 2004, 02:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (keep it *G*angsta @ Aug 17 2004, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah your right, and its not really that they are heavily armoured tho, its the fact that a good player will always blink out before he is near death.

    When I play co, I usually only die a very few times every game, and the skill of the other team only affects my kill score.

    EDIT: To simplify, they will only stop me killing them, but they will never kill me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your entire "unbalanced" thread is based on the idea that the alien team is getting levels as fast as the marine team. While you've given us a good example of aliens that know how to use their advantages as a team, I daresay your marines haven't figured out how to use theirs.

    When a fade comes in, good marines don't chase him around the freaking room, they run to the doors and block him from leaving. They've got distance weapons after all. Yeah, they'll still die at the door, but that extra second or two of delay can make the difference between the marines getting nothing for that encounter or putting the fade into the spawn queue and getting experience.

    Marines that use their advantages effectively can level up faster because of their distance weapons. If they sacrifice a single marine as "bait" and then take out one skulk, the marines have actually gone up slightly more than the skulks because the experience was divvied up among one fewer marines. If more than one skulk comes out, that's just more experience for the marine team sitting back with their combined fire.

    Keep using the same marine as bait and all the non-bait marines will have level 2 before any of the skulks do -- unless the skulks keep letting the same guy get the kill. In which case one skulk will have level 2 at about the same time. Once marines have level advantage it gets even easier.

    To counter this, the alien team has to try to attack. Of course, attacking is not the skulks strong point. And a well co-ordinated marine team knows this so has a base guard waiting.

    Now, that all being said, I too believe that the fade is somewhat overpowered.. unfortunately, the way things are set up, it almost has to be just to balance the underpower of the skulks.
  • DantemssDantemss Join Date: 2003-12-13 Member: 24305Members
    Fades cost 3 points. They have to be good. Same for focus and xenocide. However, the onos... :/
  • Rapier7Rapier7 Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
    Onos in combat is overpowered. So are fades.

    But I'd like to see NS balanced first before CO.
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
    Yer Kwil I read what you saying man good points actually.

    But I dont agree with you that skulks are underpowered.

    Before marines get armour upgrades/shotgun the slulk marine war is pretty much even. Esp if you get second hive ability first.

    But anyway about what you were saying, I actually just played on a 22 man server playing co, this was very different to my regular 14 man server, I actaully found comabt on that 22 man much more even. The marines had the numbers to take down the fades quickly, and what you say about blocking fades, well yeah they didnt even have to do it purposly with so many <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    I also found the games to be alot shorter, with either skulk or hive rush early winning the game.

    However on my regular 14 man, with only 7 marines (which cant all stick together, CC rush?) the biggest group your gonna encounter is say 4-5 tops. This is where marines struggle esp when fades come into the picture, if alien team rush to get 2 fades (which they should really) they will be able to pick off marines out of this group easily, this then leaves a few for skulks to pick off. Aliens level up, fades get level 8 quickly, gg.

    Problem is, game was designed around a 12 man server wasnt it?
  • DantemssDantemss Join Date: 2003-12-13 Member: 24305Members
    edited August 2004
    If fades weren't bugged, they wouldn't be so good. I hope the devs fix this for beta 5. It's not a small bug and it has been around since 1.04, at least. Other lifeforms had it too, but it was fixed for them. The fade was forgotten.
  • keep_it_Gangstakeep_it_Gangsta Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Dantemss+Aug 18 2004, 03:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dantemss @ Aug 18 2004, 03:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If fades weren't bugged, they wouldn't be so good. I hope the devs fix this for beta 5. It's not a small bug and it has been around since 1.04, at least. Other lifeforms had it too, but it was fixed for them. The fade was forgotten. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yer man, but you just gotta learn to aim for the balls <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    Just PLEASE make it so Fades ad Onos respawn as skulks and then the game auto-matically makes them re-evolve (maybe 15 and 20 seconds respectively) while making those eggs invincible. Then, everything will be fine (and maybe limit Fades them to one defensive upgrade)
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    If the eggs are invincible, what happens if a marine player gets in a shotgun shot by netcode, framerate, or sheer dumb luck, right when the alien isn't an egg? The "invul" godmode cheat command has problems with NS classes, since you don't have to die to change, and I imagine any other kind of invulnerability would have similar problems.
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    Fine, then just extend the time that alien stays dead instead of force-egging. The effect is the same basically, forcing the higher lifeforms to NOT be suicidal.
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