<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Aug 9 2004, 11:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Aug 9 2004, 11:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 9 2004, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 9 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What's that, Zel? I've had more difficulty with removing Detonators... for those, you have to actually grab something like Detonator R.I.P., or they'll leave crap all over the machine... setting your new card to use the nV opengl32.dll, or other such stupidity. With an ATi, you just have to remember to remove the control panel, THEN the drivers, THEN pull the card.
Though I guess if your card literally fried, that could be a problem in getting the drivers out, as they wouldn't see the card there and would disable themselves.
And CWAG, the X800 XTPE would be the card I'd buy myself, if I didn't have back-bills to deal with at the moment. :b
(edit) And yes, you HAVE to remove the control panel and drivers before you install the new ones, when updating Catalysts. You do NOT install them 'over the top' of the old ones. Only part that annoys compu-nubs. (/color) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> wouldn't it still be possible to uninstall them if you just plugged in a working (ati) card? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, good luck with that <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
You could, but it'd have to be the same make/model. So if I had an R9500 Pro, you'd have to put in another R9500 Pro, not an R9500 non-pro or R9700.
Found that out when I was switching up to the 9500 from an older 9000, and thought I could just swap the cards and leave the drivers. Ker-NOPE! Had to swap 'em back, remove the drivers, swap them to their final position, and install the new drivers. Not much of a hassle, if you think of it logically.
And much less of a PITA, as noted, than trying to uninstall nVidia drivers if you want to switch to an ATi. Ended up having to format a system that had a cheap third-party (like there are any other kind) nVidia GF4 440MX, that was going up to an R9700 Pro. Even Detonator RIP didn't pull out all the hinky crap the Detonators left behind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Go Gainward. ATI's are sucky, i have one in my laptop. Its very fast but its crap, cant update drivers for it, PowerPlay doesnt work, etc. im never buying ATI again <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you tell that the Non-Mobility ones are sucky when you haven't even tried one? You can use the OMEGA drivers, they support all ATI Mobility cards and fix lots of bugs.
the omega ati drivers own you. i use them with my 9600 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes, most of the cards we deal with are fried, or the windows is so fouled up due to a faulty DDR DIMM or harddrive that uninstallation properly is impossible.
sure, in perfect conditions, upgrading from one radeon to another could go smoothly, but where i get my experience; its generally an ignorant customer changing their card from whatever dell or gateway gave them to whatever geforce the repair shop has on the shelf. I dont deal with gamers or even people that can change their own parts; i deal with the general populace; your mom; and the hardware company's primary audience.
nvidias are infinitely easier because the drivers included with windows always work automatically and even perform well. theres no need to even install the detonators in many situations.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
So you're basing your opinions as a gamer on the ease of use in cleaning up after a moron (read: generic target audience who will buy whatever has the biggest number tacked on) screws something over, rather than actual performance and everyday ease of use? Much less image quality, efficiency of cooling, and compliance to standards?
If you are going to get a 9800 Pro, get the MSI one from <a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-127-127&depa=1' target='_blank'>Newegg - MSI 9800 Pro</a> because it comes with the 9800 xt core and the bios is already a xt heh and all you have to do is oc it.. It also comes with a bigass heatsink with a fan on it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 10 2004, 02:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 10 2004, 02:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you're basing your opinions as a gamer on the ease of use in cleaning up after a moron (read: generic target audience who will buy whatever has the biggest number tacked on) screws something over, rather than actual performance and everyday ease of use? Much less image quality, efficiency of cooling, and compliance to standards? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Touché.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mullet+Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it true that the new video card (as in, not released yet...) nvidia is working on has 32 pipelines? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****.
<!--QuoteBegin-404NotFound+Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mullet+Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it true that the new video card (as in, not released yet...) nvidia is working on has 32 pipelines? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3...
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 10 2004, 01:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 10 2004, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-404NotFound+Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mullet+Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it true that the new video card (as in, not released yet...) nvidia is working on has 32 pipelines? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, and that 1GB of video ram is just an insane requirement for the High Quality settings on the Unreal3.0 engine.
When will video card makers start putting upgradable ram slots on vid cards? I know i'd like to throw some more ram on my 5900XT lol
<!--QuoteBegin-404NotFound+Aug 10 2004, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 10 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Aug 10 2004, 01:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Aug 10 2004, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-404NotFound+Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 10 2004, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mullet+Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Aug 10 2004, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it true that the new video card (as in, not released yet...) nvidia is working on has 32 pipelines? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, and that 1GB of video ram is just an insane requirement for the High Quality settings on the Unreal3.0 engine.
When will video card makers start putting upgradable ram slots on vid cards? I know i'd like to throw some more ram on my 5900XT lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well adding more ram will not make much of a difference to the performance of your videocard.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 9 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 9 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, the drivers have much improved. I cannot rightly suggest a third-party manufacturer... I've only bought Built By ATi cards, and have had no problem. Gotta love a chipset maker who will stand beside their product enough to make their own cards, rather than just pawning off their chip to third-parties. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Should be able to find an R9800 Pro 128 for approximately $174, if you live in the USA.. Best Buy was just running a sale for that price. Also note that if you have the cash, the X800 XTPE is the fastest card on the market... and at $500, it's cheaper than nVidia's slower 6800 UE, which retails for $700+ as a pre-overclocked golden sample. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't find a Radeon 9800 Pro anywhere for less than like $195. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/edit Why get the 256mb card? It has absolutely NO difference in benchmarks and games. I think the biggest difference I saw was like 1-3 fps. Why pay 100 dollars more for 1-3 fps?
Not 100 dollars worth of performance. Go check out benchmarks on your video card. Try <a href='http://www.tomshardware.com/' target='_blank'>Tom's Hardware</a>. Every comparison I've seen for the 9800 pro 128mb and 256 shows practically no difference. Most of the sites recommend going for the 128mb anyways.
<a href='http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030604/radeon_9800-01.html' target='_blank'>link to comparison</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The GPU cooler is the same as on the 128-MB card. Otherwise, there are no other noteworthy external differences to report. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The benchmark results of the new Radeon 9800 Pro with 256 MB are sobering when compared to those of the 128-MB variant. It's only in extreme situations (in the highest resolutions and high FSAA settings) that any difference could be seen. In these areas, however, the frame rates are at a low level, which is therefore not realistic and certainly not worth the extra $100.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
VideoRAM can can make a huge difference if the game exceed the amount of MB in textures as your card has <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> For games that dont use that much it will be insignificant <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
With an ATi, you just have to remember to remove the control panel, THEN the drivers, THEN pull the card.
Though I guess if your card literally fried, that could be a problem in getting the drivers out, as they wouldn't see the card there and would disable themselves.
And CWAG, the X800 XTPE would be the card I'd buy myself, if I didn't have back-bills to deal with at the moment. :b
(edit) And yes, you HAVE to remove the control panel and drivers before you install the new ones, when updating Catalysts. You do NOT install them 'over the top' of the old ones. Only part that annoys compu-nubs. (/color) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wouldn't it still be possible to uninstall them if you just plugged in a working (ati) card? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, good luck with that <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Found that out when I was switching up to the 9500 from an older 9000, and thought I could just swap the cards and leave the drivers. Ker-NOPE! Had to swap 'em back, remove the drivers, swap them to their final position, and install the new drivers. Not much of a hassle, if you think of it logically.
And much less of a PITA, as noted, than trying to uninstall nVidia drivers if you want to switch to an ATi. Ended up having to format a system that had a cheap third-party (like there are any other kind) nVidia GF4 440MX, that was going up to an R9700 Pro. Even Detonator RIP didn't pull out all the hinky crap the Detonators left behind.
How can you tell that the Non-Mobility ones are sucky when you haven't even tried one? You can use the OMEGA drivers, they support all ATI Mobility cards and fix lots of bugs.
I own a 9800 PRO myself, and I love it.
sure, in perfect conditions, upgrading from one radeon to another could go smoothly, but where i get my experience; its generally an ignorant customer changing their card from whatever dell or gateway gave them to whatever geforce the repair shop has on the shelf. I dont deal with gamers or even people that can change their own parts; i deal with the general populace; your mom; and the hardware company's primary audience.
nvidias are infinitely easier because the drivers included with windows always work automatically and even perform well. theres no need to even install the detonators in many situations.
Touché.
I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****.
I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3...
I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and that 1GB of video ram is just an insane requirement for the High Quality settings on the Unreal3.0 engine.
When will video card makers start putting upgradable ram slots on vid cards? I know i'd like to throw some more ram on my 5900XT lol
I have no idea... but that would seem like a HUGE step. I do'nt think such a big leap has ever been made.
If they did, however, it would kick all kinds of ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maby it has a chance of being able to run Unreal E. 3... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and that 1GB of video ram is just an insane requirement for the High Quality settings on the Unreal3.0 engine.
When will video card makers start putting upgradable ram slots on vid cards? I know i'd like to throw some more ram on my 5900XT lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well adding more ram will not make much of a difference to the performance of your videocard.
good choice?
edit: fixed the URL to the PRO card, my bad
Should be able to find an R9800 Pro 128 for approximately $174, if you live in the USA.. Best Buy was just running a sale for that price. Also note that if you have the cash, the X800 XTPE is the fastest card on the market... and at $500, it's cheaper than nVidia's slower 6800 UE, which retails for $700+ as a pre-overclocked golden sample. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't find a Radeon 9800 Pro anywhere for less than like $195. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/edit Why get the 256mb card? It has absolutely NO difference in benchmarks and games. I think the biggest difference I saw was like 1-3 fps. Why pay 100 dollars more for 1-3 fps?
In short said, most games can't use up the full power of the newer GFX cards yet..
<a href='http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030604/radeon_9800-01.html' target='_blank'>link to comparison</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The GPU cooler is the same as on the 128-MB card. Otherwise, there are no other noteworthy external differences to report.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The benchmark results of the new Radeon 9800 Pro with 256 MB are sobering when compared to those of the 128-MB variant. It's only in extreme situations (in the highest resolutions and high FSAA settings) that any difference could be seen. In these areas, however, the frame rates are at a low level, which is therefore not realistic and certainly not worth the extra $100.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->