InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
edited July 2004
Sigh.. I know it's difficult for some of you to even get through a doorway without scraping all the skin off your cheeks, but try not to be asshats about this, yeah? Christ, it's probably his first or second map. Cut him a little slack.
As for comments.. work on the scale. That room seems rather big, especially considering the level of detail you have in there.
On the subject of detail, since I'm guessing you might be having difficulty in that area, you might find these tutorials useful:
<!--QuoteBegin--Ripzaw-+Jul 20 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Ripzaw- @ Jul 20 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-k\o\w+Jul 20 2004, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k\o\w @ Jul 20 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dude.... you totally shot down my e-penif size. I feel so owned <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stop flaming and add some constructive C&C. Or is that too much to handle?
Edit : Spelling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I tried last week: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74426&st=0&#entry1145947' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...0&#entry1145947</a>
he didn't listen.
then what does he do? he posts this horrible horrible thread.
so, I try again: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75484&st=0&#entry1152309' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...0&#entry1152309</a>
and what does he do? he continues posting more and more horrible horrible pictures of this VHE abortion.
Okay, if you people are just going to keep shooting him down, there will be some serious consequences. He's a new mapper, he's starting out, and he's looking for help. If you can't or don't want to help him, then just leave him alone and go back to your own maps.
k/o/w especially, consider this your official warning. One more comment of this nature out of you, and you'll be serving a temporary suspension.
<!--QuoteBegin-Greedo386+Jul 20 2004, 02:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Greedo386 @ Jul 20 2004, 02:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay, if you people are just going to keep shooting him down, there will be some serious consequences. He's a new mapper, he's starting out, and he's looking for help. If you can't or don't want to help him, then just leave him alone and go back to your own maps.
k/o/w especially, consider this your official warning. One more comment of this nature out of you, and you'll be serving a temporary suspension. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He's not that new - he's been using hammer for over a year, specifically working with it for over 4 weeks...
<!--QuoteBegin-Jean Luc Picard+Jul 20 2004, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jean Luc Picard @ Jul 20 2004, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> kow, lemme tell you something... if at first you dont succede, try try again.
You know what that means?
I'll tell ya
It means I'm going to KEEP TRYING untill I GET IT RIGHT.
And since my idea of what' right isn't the same as all of your's, I need to post it up to get the crits I need, now don't I! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And you should keep trying. Like I said before, the key to mapping is practice, practice, and more practice. Keep going until you have something you seriously like. You seriously can't tell me that you like this readyroom. Do you not notice the fact that it's a very square room, and is so HUGE that some walls have the same textured tiled a few hundred times? Keep practicing, everyone gets good at mapping as long as they put some effort into it.
I find a good technique is to blatantly rip off other peoples maps. take some screenshots of something you've never created in VHE, then go ahead and work on it until it looks atleast somewhat like the original. It'll help you fine tune your attention to detail and will help you discover new mapping techniques that you haven't used before. And please, keep screenshots to yourself until you actually think they're atleast close detailwise to some of the other maps posted here. You can't tell me you could say something positive about the screenshots you posted if it had been someone else that made them.
oh, and kow, the problem is, I don't KNOW what's good in ppl's opinion... I'm only me! So i need to post here to see if ppl like it or not... and if they don't, I'll try to fix it so they do!
and no, it may not have been positive... but I wouldnt have been a smart **** either
Oh come on.. please. You've seen the level of quality most of the maps have around here. Were you really expecting positive replies like "nice work" etc.? I respect the fact that you're new, but come on.. even nz-nexus would've known this.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Give it time... I hear most maps take around 8 months to more than a year to get looking right...
<!--QuoteBegin-JezPuh+Jul 20 2004, 03:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JezPuh @ Jul 20 2004, 03:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Where did kows posts go? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the ministry of truth has passed through this thread.
Jean Luc deserves a chance to learn how to map and KOW was being offesnive and mean. Do I really need to continue? Keep up the good work, Jean Luc. <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
mmm... well... I can't say it's empty any more... I worked on adding some things here and there.. I have some screens but after I looked at em I realized some textures were off... I'll fix that then re-take em <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is it still... too empty? I'm at the limit of what I can do on this machine... as you can see, I'm already at a low 9 fps... ... ... which is surprising for me... especialy for a simple room like this... tis what I get trying to improve the picture by maxing out all my settings in the video controls and in the NS video controls...
Change your resolution to 800*600 and try to use openGL (i see it has been said already, but it looks like you are still in software mode!) If you do you will be able to have a LOT more fps, and its prettier.
Options --> Video --> Renderer --> OpenGL
Looks like your have two sets of custom join signs, maybe only choose one ? Also, whats the r_speeds in there ? (r_speeds 1 in console) The r_speeds are probably too high that's another reason you are getting a crappy framerate. Reduce the size of the room and scale up the textures so it's not tiling a lot like that, it will help lowering the r_speeds.
Yes, it is still too empty. Compare your readyroom to ns_nothings readyroom. What does that have what you don't have? Firstly, it isn't a big cube. That's one thing to start with. Secondly, it has more than 4 textures. Now, I'm not mocking you, but I'm trying to give you advice, so don't take this the wrong way.
I suggest you should read some architecture tutorials.
The stairs are something different compared to other parts of your readyroom. I like the way you put lights there, it's something that I would call unique architecture. I know it might seem like a variation because all maps have this kinds of little things but I like it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> The two "fences" around it, however, don't fit in very well. Maybe add some infestation there too?
You are getting better. Some progress to previous shots, but there is so much to improve. Keep it up and never stop learning new mapping technicues and such . <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hint: If you feel you can't get rid of the boxyness, you might want to try a different approach. I mean, if you start by making a huge box and then add all the detail.., it can be very problematic to add the detail afterwards. There are many way of mapping and one should find the one that suits him best. In example, there are mappers that first make all the floors. Also, some mappers first build the basic aarchitecture and then start to add detail.
Myself, I find it easier to start with a single small floor brush, texture it and align it. Then I put a couple of shorter brushes around it, morph them a little (to prevent dull and flat floors) and find a texture that suits the first brush. Often I don't even have any plans. I just try things out and see how they work. Then, eventually, I think this would be suitable for my map and start working on it.
Look at the ready rooms for the official maps. In particular look at Bast and Ayumi. Now look at yours. Bast has wonderful theming, it's by far the most interesting ready room out there. Ayumi represents the other end of the scale; it's very simple, but it still keeps the scheme of the actual map and small visual flourishes, like the entrance to the alien spawn. These two should be the gold standard for you. Don't forget that the ready room is the first thing people will see - you'll want to make it good.
I know you haven't been mapping long, but everything I've seen has been uniquely unambitious. I'd rather you aimed higher at this stage and failed spectacularly than became competant at making complete dross. Spend the next few hours running around the official maps and best user made maps. Keep a piece of paper handy and jot down what impresses you as well as what turns you off. Look at this list before you reopen hammer.
mmm, yeah, I can't get out of software mode (onboard video) though I thought it was in open gl (as I can play games that require 3D acceleration... 0o')
I'm gonna save up for a vid card... least it'll make it look less pixelated.
As to the texture sizing... I thought that made em look streatched? Eh, I'll try it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In all seriousness... I forgot to check R-speeds... but I think it's high-time I gave up on this particular room and re-started it, floor up, as suggested... that's what I normally do actualy, but I don't know why I didn't here 0o'
JezPuh, I simply said I was 16... 2 ppl answered your question of age in the nsmapping channel. My, and someone else!
Either way, I scrapped that room and started anew... hopefully I can get it to work (it's going to be... different... than the other one... that's for sure)
huh? Ok, dude, now are you trying to confuse me or what??? Lol?
BTW- I have finished the main walls of the new readyroom... it's all one texture atm and I only have a light so I can see if it'll compile... I might post 2 pics to see if you guys like the architecture better, or I might wait longer till I do some texturing...
damn... vertex editing and clipping brushes to form more complex shapes takes a CRAP load of patience... I need to meditate now! XD
Well... I did some texturing... nothings permanent yet... I'm going to compile and get some pics... mainly to see if you guys think the architecture is any better...
I still don't know what to do for the join teams ATM... I'm thinking of making a staircase down to kharrah and a staircase up to marines... not sure where to put obs or random yet 0o'
<!--QuoteBegin-Jean Luc Picard+Jul 21 2004, 07:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jean Luc Picard @ Jul 21 2004, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> huh? Ok, dude, now are you trying to confuse me or what??? Lol?
BTW- I have finished the main walls of the new readyroom... it's all one texture atm and I only have a light so I can see if it'll compile... I might post 2 pics to see if you guys like the architecture better, or I might wait longer till I do some texturing...
damn... vertex editing and clipping brushes to form more complex shapes takes a CRAP load of patience... I need to meditate now! XD
Well... I did some texturing... nothings permanent yet... I'm going to compile and get some pics... mainly to see if you guys think the architecture is any better...
I still don't know what to do for the join teams ATM... I'm thinking of making a staircase down to kharrah and a staircase up to marines... not sure where to put obs or random yet 0o' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wow. just, wow.
Hey, you should probably start working on the secret room now. You've put so much work into the ready room. I can't wait to play this awesome map.
I restarted it because it was horrible... it's actually ok I think now... not done with texutres... but the screens I took for architecture ideas... were all black...
I hate you STEAM! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean from the first RR (pre-now) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
God DAMNIT!
I still keep getting blank screenshots... anyone know any ideas??? How to fix it???
And another problem.. for some reason, my slopes don't like to show up.. they become invisible... man, I don'tk now what's going on... it's like Hammer hates me now!
seriously, we dont need: a- any more pictures of "secret rooms" b- any more pictures of he readyroom
what we need: a- ingame shots b- possible layout, artwork etc. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ecause the rr may be important later on when you have to convince the players to play your map. but a rr and even a secret room is quite uselesse without anything behind it.
btw: I have to admit that he is really WORKING at it. that may be a good start... maybe some day we will see somethig that he can be really proud of. *best wishes*
Comments
As for comments.. work on the scale. That room seems rather big, especially considering the level of detail you have in there.
On the subject of detail, since I'm guessing you might be having difficulty in that area, you might find these tutorials useful:
<a href='http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL&id=10' target='_blank'>http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=t...s&game=HL&id=10</a>
<a href='http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&id=93' target='_blank'>http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&id=93</a>
Good luck!
Stop flaming and add some constructive C&C. Or is that too much to handle?
Edit : Spelling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried last week:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74426&st=0&#entry1145947' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...0&#entry1145947</a>
he didn't listen.
then what does he do? he posts this horrible horrible thread.
so, I try again:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75484&st=0&#entry1152309' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...0&#entry1152309</a>
and what does he do? he continues posting more and more horrible horrible pictures of this VHE abortion.
Please don't tell me I haven't tried to help him.
You know what that means?
I'll tell ya
It means I'm going to KEEP TRYING untill I GET IT RIGHT.
And since my idea of what' right isn't the same as all of your's, I need to post it up to get the crits I need, now don't I!
k/o/w especially, consider this your official warning. One more comment of this nature out of you, and you'll be serving a temporary suspension.
k/o/w especially, consider this your official warning. One more comment of this nature out of you, and you'll be serving a temporary suspension. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not that new - he's been using hammer for over a year, specifically working with it for over 4 weeks...
You know what that means?
I'll tell ya
It means I'm going to KEEP TRYING untill I GET IT RIGHT.
And since my idea of what' right isn't the same as all of your's, I need to post it up to get the crits I need, now don't I! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you should keep trying. Like I said before, the key to mapping is practice, practice, and more practice. Keep going until you have something you seriously like. You seriously can't tell me that you like this readyroom. Do you not notice the fact that it's a very square room, and is so HUGE that some walls have the same textured tiled a few hundred times? Keep practicing, everyone gets good at mapping as long as they put some effort into it.
I find a good technique is to blatantly rip off other peoples maps. take some screenshots of something you've never created in VHE, then go ahead and work on it until it looks atleast somewhat like the original. It'll help you fine tune your attention to detail and will help you discover new mapping techniques that you haven't used before. And please, keep screenshots to yourself until you actually think they're atleast close detailwise to some of the other maps posted here. You can't tell me you could say something positive about the screenshots you posted if it had been someone else that made them.
oh, and kow, the problem is, I don't KNOW what's good in ppl's opinion... I'm only me! So i need to post here to see if ppl like it or not... and if they don't, I'll try to fix it so they do!
and no, it may not have been positive... but I wouldnt have been a smart **** either
guess I'll be back in a few months?
I think the ministry of truth has passed through this thread.
big brother is watching...
Actually, I don't know what more to do... lol
<img src='http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Images/ns_zreadyroom0008.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Images/ns_zreadyroom0009.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Images/ns_zreadyroom0010.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Images/ns_zreadyroom0011.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Images/ns_zreadyroom0012.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Is it still... too empty? I'm at the limit of what I can do on this machine... as you can see, I'm already at a low 9 fps... ... ... which is surprising for me... especialy for a simple room like this... tis what I get trying to improve the picture by maxing out all my settings in the video controls and in the NS video controls...
Change your resolution to 800*600 and try to use openGL (i see it has been said already, but it looks like you are still in software mode!) If you do you will be able to have a LOT more fps, and its prettier.
Options --> Video --> Renderer --> OpenGL
Looks like your have two sets of custom join signs, maybe only choose one ? Also, whats the r_speeds in there ? (r_speeds 1 in console) The r_speeds are probably too high that's another reason you are getting a crappy framerate. Reduce the size of the room and scale up the textures so it's not tiling a lot like that, it will help lowering the r_speeds.
Keep working there is some improvement, good luck
I suggest you should read some architecture tutorials.
You are getting better. Some progress to previous shots, but there is so much to improve. Keep it up and never stop learning new mapping technicues and such . <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hint: If you feel you can't get rid of the boxyness, you might want to try a different approach. I mean, if you start by making a huge box and then add all the detail.., it can be very problematic to add the detail afterwards. There are many way of mapping and one should find the one that suits him best. In example, there are mappers that first make all the floors. Also, some mappers first build the basic aarchitecture and then start to add detail.
Myself, I find it easier to start with a single small floor brush, texture it and align it. Then I put a couple of shorter brushes around it, morph them a little (to prevent dull and flat floors) and find a texture that suits the first brush. Often I don't even have any plans. I just try things out and see how they work. Then, eventually, I think this would be suitable for my map and start working on it.
Look at the ready rooms for the official maps. In particular look at Bast and Ayumi. Now look at yours. Bast has wonderful theming, it's by far the most interesting ready room out there. Ayumi represents the other end of the scale; it's very simple, but it still keeps the scheme of the actual map and small visual flourishes, like the entrance to the alien spawn. These two should be the gold standard for you. Don't forget that the ready room is the first thing people will see - you'll want to make it good.
I know you haven't been mapping long, but everything I've seen has been uniquely unambitious. I'd rather you aimed higher at this stage and failed spectacularly than became competant at making complete dross. Spend the next few hours running around the official maps and best user made maps. Keep a piece of paper handy and jot down what impresses you as well as what turns you off. Look at this list before you reopen hammer.
I'm gonna save up for a vid card... least it'll make it look less pixelated.
As to the texture sizing... I thought that made em look streatched? Eh, I'll try it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In all seriousness... I forgot to check R-speeds... but I think it's high-time I gave up on this particular room and re-started it, floor up, as suggested... that's what I normally do actualy, but I don't know why I didn't here 0o'
JezPuh, I simply said I was 16... 2 ppl answered your question of age in the nsmapping channel. My, and someone else!
Either way, I scrapped that room and started anew... hopefully I can get it to work (it's going to be... different... than the other one... that's for sure)
BTW- I have finished the main walls of the new readyroom... it's all one texture atm and I only have a light so I can see if it'll compile... I might post 2 pics to see if you guys like the architecture better, or I might wait longer till I do some texturing...
damn... vertex editing and clipping brushes to form more complex shapes takes a CRAP load of patience... I need to meditate now! XD
Well... I did some texturing... nothings permanent yet... I'm going to compile and get some pics... mainly to see if you guys think the architecture is any better...
I still don't know what to do for the join teams ATM... I'm thinking of making a staircase down to kharrah and a staircase up to marines... not sure where to put obs or random yet 0o'
BTW- I have finished the main walls of the new readyroom... it's all one texture atm and I only have a light so I can see if it'll compile... I might post 2 pics to see if you guys like the architecture better, or I might wait longer till I do some texturing...
damn... vertex editing and clipping brushes to form more complex shapes takes a CRAP load of patience... I need to meditate now! XD
Well... I did some texturing... nothings permanent yet... I'm going to compile and get some pics... mainly to see if you guys think the architecture is any better...
I still don't know what to do for the join teams ATM... I'm thinking of making a staircase down to kharrah and a staircase up to marines... not sure where to put obs or random yet 0o' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow. just, wow.
Hey, you should probably start working on the secret room now. You've put so much work into the ready room. I can't wait to play this awesome map.
I hate you STEAM! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean from the first RR (pre-now) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
God DAMNIT!
I still keep getting blank screenshots... anyone know any ideas??? How to fix it???
And another problem.. for some reason, my slopes don't like to show up.. they become invisible... man, I don'tk now what's going on... it's like Hammer hates me now!
a- any more pictures of "secret rooms"
b- any more pictures of he readyroom
what we need:
a- ingame shots
b- possible layout, artwork etc. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ecause the rr may be important later on when you have to convince the players to play your map. but a rr and even a secret room is quite uselesse without anything behind it.
btw: I have to admit that he is really WORKING at it. that may be a good start... maybe some day we will see somethig that he can be really proud of. *best wishes*