GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets not turn this into a flamewar of the valid uses of scripting, this is just a plugin to allow server ops to use a feature that was meant to be in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets not turn this into a flamewar of the valid uses of scripting, this is just a plugin to allow server ops to use a feature that was meant to be in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are!
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 9 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 9 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets not turn this into a flamewar of the valid uses of scripting, this is just a plugin to allow server ops to use a feature that was meant to be in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I respect you opinion. I may even agree with it.
But there's no need to be so negative.
And you can always run your own server if you don't like those available. Hell, you can even create a community, encourage decent play, spend good money on services, police admins and nurture the playing environment you want.
Typing a few things in a forum is easy, but writing a game, learning to code or running servers require a lot of dedication.
Just something to mull over, not a personal attack, so please don't take it as such.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 9 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 9 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seriously, the one thing common between all top competetive HL players of any mod:
<b>They all have 100 fps or pretty damn close to it</b>
And the reason is, it's not even a debate, either you have high FPS or play a gimped game. HL was designed on 100 fps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's really kind of sad.
Here I thought it was based on skill as opposed to wallet size. Ah well, good to know, I guess.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I wish I could still see the other thread, where voogru had posted something about commands that were executed in scripts.. I couldnt see the reply.. but what had you posted about that voogru?
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jul 9 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jul 9 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 9 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 9 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jul 9 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Jul 4 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets not turn this into a flamewar of the valid uses of scripting, this is just a plugin to allow server ops to use a feature that was meant to be in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I respect you opinion. I may even agree with it.
But there's no need to be so negative.
And you can always run your own server if you don't like those available. Hell, you can even create a community, encourage decent play, spend good money on services, police admins and nurture the playing environment you want.
Typing a few things in a forum is easy, but writing a game, learning to code or running servers require a lot of dedication.
Just something to mull over, not a personal attack, so please don't take it as such. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Could you please tell me something to be positive over?
2. Actually, I have a plan in the works for a server with #cri.
3. Typing in the forum may be easy, but the reason I type in these forums is to make sure the game I have spent so much time on doesn't go to waste.
You have three things in the development of a game like NS:
- Coders (makes it happen)
- Bug testers (looks for game problems)
- Avid competetive players (looks for gameplay problems)
And the sad fact is, the last one is the least represented in NS's development. It may be time consuming to code, or running a server, but it's also just as time consuming to actually play the game. And out of the 100 or so people who really play this game and stay good at it, I'd say about only 5 people or so out of the 100 are actually listened to. And 5 is being optimistic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's really kind of sad.
Here I thought it was based on skill as opposed to wallet size. Ah well, good to know, I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Your ways are stuck in the console days. lol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah but really, I love how people look for 100 things to blame why they get killed by others... (h4x, scripts, rate hacks...) but the #1 culprit for sure is how high your fps is over theirs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish I could still see the other thread, where voogru had posted something about commands that were executed in scripts.. I couldnt see the reply.. but what had you posted about that voogru?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That he needs to remove the exec and ';' command?
Or he may find a way to leave in simple scripts but take out complex ones?
Yeah, if scripts go in b5 big stlye, like every good server has mp_blockscripts 1. i'm gonna have to go play another game, beacuse it's just not fun with the amount of lag/no scripts like lastinv client side. This game's gonna die for people without 40FPS +
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 9 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 9 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 9 2004, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 9 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So if all scripting does is offer convenience then why are you so upset about it. Its like being mad about automatic transmission in cars or someone having a butler.
Also, Forlorn, I thought that nothing has been FPS related since 1.04? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So if all it offers is convience, lets remove it and make the game worse!
....that's a good idea?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pretty much sums it up. So now that you've figured out that all it does is make setting up the same function more inconvenient (in the setup, not necessarily the game) with a few exceptions that are useless for almost everyone except people who rely on this little bit of convenience for health reasons. Whats the reason to implement this again in such an unthoughtout manner?
Oh right, I forget. The whole reason is obvious in the subtitle of this thread "all scripters must die". A bit of glee at the hope that competitive players will suddenly be utterly dumbfounded without their evil scripts. Well yeah, not only is that a really noble cause, its also not going to happen.
I've noticed that a few people are constantly complaining about how scripts keep them on an even playing field when they have a crap frame rate and others have a better one. All I have to say to this is, buy a G4 MX 420 card for 20 bucks and then you will be on that even playing field you so desperately desire.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps...
</drama> I love your arguement; "The game is getting worse because server ops get the ability to block scripts"..
Don't you consider yourself a bit overly dramatic here? How does blocking scripts worsen NS? It allows server operators to choose if they allow players to script on *their* server. Don't like it? Don't play there. The horror!
Scripting wont be removed from NS, players can still script, your autoexec.cfg will still be fine and your scripts won't die, they'll simply be blocked by people who dislike it.
As for serverside lastinv, there's no reason this wont get fixed in NS when it's brought to the dev's attention.
<!--QuoteBegin-Tekish+Jul 10 2004, 07:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tekish @ Jul 10 2004, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've noticed that a few people are constantly complaining about how scripts keep them on an even playing field when they have a crap frame rate and others have a better one. All I have to say to this is, buy a G4 MX 420 card for 20 bucks and then you will be on that even playing field you so desperately desire.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They don't preform consistanly, and not NS
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't you consider yourself a bit overly dramatic here? How does blocking scripts worsen NS? It allows server operators to choose if they allow players to script on *their* server. Don't like it? Don't play there. The horror!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. No
2. How does it make it better?
For ways that it makes it worse:
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes
c.) It further divides the community between pr0 scriptos and ant1 scriptors.
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You still don't get it do you? You have an opinion, fine. But stop acting like everyone has accepted it as facts, wich is simply not true.
I like it how you constantly manage to contradict yourself. Scripts don't make much of a difference skill-wise, been the conclusion many mentioned in previous posts. Yet here you set it as a condition to enter the more 'proffesional' scene. What am I supposed to make out of this? Scripts <b>do</b> offer a considerable difference?
PS: Been managing myself just <u>fine</u> without scripts, in the 'pr0' scene or otherwise.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Tekish+Jul 10 2004, 08:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tekish @ Jul 10 2004, 08:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've noticed that a few people are constantly complaining about how scripts keep them on an even playing field when they have a crap frame rate and others have a better one. All I have to say to this is, buy a G4 MX 420 card for 20 bucks and then you will be on that even playing field you so desperately desire.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good luck finding a decent video card for games other then HL for PCI.. its impossible.
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You still don't get it do you? You have an opinion, fine. But stop acting like everyone has accepted it as facts, wich is simply not true.
I like it how you constantly manage to contradict yourself. Scripts don't make much of a difference skill-wise, been the conclusion many mentioned in previous posts. Yet here you set it as a condition to enter the more 'proffesional' scene. What am I supposed to make out of this? Scripts <b>do</b> offer a considerable difference?
PS: Been managing myself just <u>fine</u> without scripts, in the 'pr0' scene or otherwise. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nothing I say about scripts is an oppinon. It's quite simply the truth. I know it may sound hard to accept, but really it's just a video game and there is a science to it.
Also, where did I contradict myself? Yes, scripts don't make much of a difference skill wise, because scripts are only convience and are there to give you alternative methods of control
For example, we have the +3jumps script, as opposed to using my mousewheel.
I never stated it nessesary to use scripts to be a top clanner. Never once. However, a pubber coming into the NS clan scene who suddenly sees everyone scripting as opposed to his little succluded sever with ignorant admins and regulars who are like "OMG SCRIPTS BAN", well in this case the said wannabe clanner may find it more trouble than it's worth to be a clanner, simply because he doesn't understand the scripting issue. You don't NEED scripts, but they do exist for those who want them.
That's all there is to it. Why is this hard to understand? Scripts offer an advantage, much like tons of other things offer advantages to gaming: A mousewheel, 100 fps, headphones, etc. etc.
Oh and you play for a team? Which one would that be? I've never heard of travis dane, are you a euro? Maybe we can pcw (scrim) sometime.
Here's an idea, I know it's already been stated in this thread but I think I'll repeat it for emphasis:
<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>FILTER OUT MP_BLOCKSCRIPTS SERVERS</span></b>
Mp_blockscripts was supposed to be in 3.0 all along, but it's been bugged. All that's happening is a bug is being fixed.
I don't understand this. People were complaining when it appeared that no development was being done, and when development occurs, people start complaining about what was done.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nothing I say about scripts is an oppinon. It's quite simply the truth. I know it may sound hard to accept, but really it's just a video game and there is a science to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd expect this kind of ignorance from a 12yearold, I made a comment about this kind of behaviour on my previous reply, and i'm not going to make it again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never stated it nessesary to use scripts to be a top clanner. Never once. However, a pubber coming into the NS clan scene who suddenly sees everyone scripting as opposed to his little succluded sever with ignorant admins and regulars who are like "OMG SCRIPTS BAN", well in this case the said wannabe clanner may find it more trouble than it's worth to be a clanner, simply because he doesn't understand the scripting issue. You don't NEED scripts, but they do exist for those who want them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people are free to choose wether to use them, then were exactly is the issue for this new 'wannabe' clanner? He gets introduced into new viewpoints on the issue, that's it. Unless ofcourse, clans are going to force their players to use scripts, let's hope things don't get that dire.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's all there is to it. Why is this hard to understand? Scripts offer an advantage, much like tons of other things offer advantages to gaming: A mousewheel, 100 fps, headphones, etc. etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ofcourse alot of things will be gaining players an advantages, however, it's (possibly) up to the game (or modification) developers to decide what is allowed to give you an extra boost. A fast PC is ofcourse something noone will condem you for, scripts on the other hand, are alot more sensitive. And in the end it are the devs (and possibly the server operators) to give the final say in it.
Scripts are simply a sensitive issue, hence my comment to refrain from your 'look-im-right-and-youre-wrong-period' behaviour.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd expect this kind of ignorance from a 12yearold, I made a comment about this kind of behaviour on my previous reply, and i'm not going to make it again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you are the one who thinks scripting is controversial like homosexual marrige, where there is no black and white and it's all full of shades of grey, then I'd say you are the ignorant one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If people are free to choose wether to use them, then were exactly is the issue for this new 'wannabe' clanner? He gets introduced into new viewpoints on the issue, that's it. Unless ofcourse, clans are going to force their players to use scripts, let's hope things don't get that dire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong - He'll most likely be taken aback from the clan community, hesiste whether or not to join it. Unless he sees the light - that there is nothing more to scripting than there is playing the game, then he will he probably back down, as his only experience is his little community banning scripts, having zero tolerance for it, and telling him scripts are evil/cheap/cheating.
Oh and what clan are you part of dude? Or are you even in one? I'm just curious to know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wrong - He'll most likely be taken aback from the clan community, hesiste whether or not to join it. Unless he sees the light - that there is nothing more to scripting than there is playing the game, then he will he probably back down, as his only experience is his little community banning scripts, having zero tolerance for it, and telling him scripts are evil/cheap/cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm curious, tell me, <b>why</b> are you acting like NSPlayers are little kids, with their minds free for molding? May sound stupid, but that's certainly the impression you're giving me. You're trying to protect their opinions from the evil admins and the bad servers? Seriously, that's just redicelous.
As I stated earlier, a player would only encounter players with different perspectives and opinions towards scripting. And no, he's not going to act like a young kid just arriving on his new school, overwhelmed by the difference.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 10 2004, 12:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 10 2004, 12:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They don't preform consistanly, and not NS <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Neither does my 9600 XT. The inconsistancies you speak of is NS pushing the HL engine beyond it's limits, causing drops in frame rate.
My friend has the worst onboard card I have ever seen, and he can play NS just fine, at a steady 60-100 fps - oddly enough, better than my card.
<!--QuoteBegin-devicenull+Jul 10 2004, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Jul 10 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good luck finding a decent video card for games other then HL for PCI.. its impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never said it wasn't. All I'm saying is that you can easily improve your HL performance with a video card that wasn't created in 1986.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Jul 10 2004, 01:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Jul 10 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wrong - He'll most likely be taken aback from the clan community, hesiste whether or not to join it. Unless he sees the light - that there is nothing more to scripting than there is playing the game, then he will he probably back down, as his only experience is his little community banning scripts, having zero tolerance for it, and telling him scripts are evil/cheap/cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm curious, tell me, <b>why</b> are you acting like NSPlayers are little kids, with their minds free for molding? May sound stupid, but that's certainly the impression you're giving me. You're trying to protect their opinions from the evil admins and the bad servers? Seriously, that's just redicelous.
As I stated earlier, a player would only encounter players with different perspectives and opinions towards scripting. And no, he's not going to act like a young kid just arriving on his new school, overwhelmed by the difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not trying to protect anyone; rather I would not like to see an atmosphere of anti-scripting servers/scripting servers. It will create a divide. Now this is an oppinion, and I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that in NS, where you have the most disproportionate clanner/non-clanner ratio out of all the HL games, then I would expect something like sv_blockscripts to create an even bigger divide.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 10 2004, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 10 2004, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not trying to protect anyone; rather I would not like to see an atmosphere of anti-scripting servers/scripting servers. It will create a divide. Now this is an oppinion, and I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that in NS, where you have the most disproportionate clanner/non-clanner ratio out of all the HL games, then I would expect something like sv_blockscripts to create an even bigger divide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like the entire public scene will reside on anti-scripting. A mixture rather. If I recall correctly the block variable is 0 by default, so the 'damage' would be limited exclusively to server admins that stand by an anti-scripting policy. So either way, scripting on such a server will be tedious. A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.
Also, I don't think <u>forcing</u> script allowance on servers would be good progress, let alone decrease the 'anti' and 'pro' division. You'll only end up with abbreviated admins that start to ban scripters on sight (wich isn't always the most accurate method).
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Jul 10 2004, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Jul 10 2004, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 10 2004, 08:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 10 2004, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not trying to protect anyone; rather I would not like to see an atmosphere of anti-scripting servers/scripting servers. It will create a divide. Now this is an oppinion, and I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that in NS, where you have the most disproportionate clanner/non-clanner ratio out of all the HL games, then I would expect something like sv_blockscripts to create an even bigger divide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like the entire public scene will reside on anti-scripting. A mixture rather. If I recall correctly the block variable is 0 by default, so the 'damage' would be limited exclusively to server admins that stand by an anti-scripting policy. So either way, scripting on such a server will be tedious. A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.
Also, I don't think <u>forcing</u> script allowance on servers would be good progress, let alone decrease the 'anti' and 'pro' division. You'll only end up with abbreviated admins that start to ban scripters on sight (wich isn't always the most accurate method). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure about the even mix.
Also,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's to be suspicious about? Why would an admin have anything to worry about in the first place, even if the player scripts?
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!
<!--QuoteBegin-JHunz+Jul 10 2004, 05:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JHunz @ Jul 10 2004, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, about a week ago a guy posted a thread containing a script that let him exploit the no-energy no-sound leap bug. I'm going to go with that one.
[Edit] At least he claimed it did, I didn't try it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That script is abusive, yes, but the reason it works is due to a bug in the client to server weapon switching, as far as I know it. The bug busters have been on it for a long time now and hopefully it will be fixed in beta 5 by simply fixing the way you change your weapons.
But damn, I trip on the first one about scripts. GJ JHunz! This is indeed abusive. But still... this is basically the aimbot of scripts. Also there may be limitations to this script, such as not being able to execute any other commands because so many commands are being spammed by the script, and also it may not properly use the '-' part of a command, meaning you will be stuck walking to the left/right. I don't think this is useful in combat, but it would be a cheap way to move around the map.
The script itself isn't abusive, it's actually the script just abusing a bug in the game in the end. Much like the 1.04 pistol was insta cannon of doom with a script, you just put on a ROF cap on the pistol and it's fixed and no long abusable by script.
I should have mentioned that this script was the only abusive one.
Also, there is another script which you may have heard about, the one that makes you run faster. Now for aliens, since you can bhop, this is useless, but for marines it makes you run as fast as a skulk.
You may think, "wow so incredibly lame/unfair" but it's not. You can't shoot your gun, change a walk direction, or do anything else but move in the last direction you held down. I've actually gone out of my way on pubs to see how I could use this one to a great effect, but so far the resuts:
- Get to an area about .5 seconds earlier - Get killed by an ambush, unable to fire back at the skulk since the script executes itself.
My final oppinion of this: Completely worthless. The advantage of being able to move one foot faster is not worth the risk of being completely harmless if attacked.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 10 2004, 11:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 10 2004, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's to be suspicious about? Why would an admin have anything to worry about in the first place, even if the player scripts?
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, we're not really discussing the reason why admins have these policies... Rather the fact that the block variable will actually start blocking now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Jul 10 2004, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Jul 10 2004, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 10 2004, 11:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 10 2004, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's to be suspicious about? Why would an admin have anything to worry about in the first place, even if the player scripts?
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, we're not really discussing the reason why admins have these policies... Rather the fact that the block variable will actually start blocking now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The whole point of putting in this filter is to block scripts. Obviously there is a point to everything, so I ask, what is the point to blocking scripts?
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 11 2004, 01:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 11 2004, 01:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The whole point of putting in this filter is to block scripts. Obviously there is a point to everything, so I ask, what is the point to blocking scripts?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The point to the variable is to render server admin's able to block scripts. Why the admins feel like doing so, obviously depends on the admin in question. But I think we've stated enough obvious matters now. You're not really going to convince the dev's to completely remove the variable, so your best bet would be to rant on about it in script-blocked servers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Please - end the bleeding heart attempts to make those of us who don't script respect you for all the <i>difficulty</i> you go through in competitive scripting.
OH WOE IS YOU, RIGHT?
Listen - There are at least three groups of people out there: those who competitively script, those who don't (and are against it), and those that don't give a damn either way. There is no way that any script champion (such as Forlorn) is EVER, EVER going to convice the second group that scripts are kosher. Trying to make these anti-scripters feel <i>SORRY</i> for you when your boneheaded scripts take functionality away from the game (as described in this 'speed' script, of sorts) is something that's not going to happen - so get off it.
So how about this, fellas: we agree to disagree. Don't like your scripts blocked? Find a new server that allows them and have a fantastic day.
The Dev's have decided to let server admins decide whether or not they want to block scripts. You'd really have to take it up with them. The server I regular on plans to block scripts, and I'm fine with that. While your concern that the folks who regular on that server won't do well in competitive play (and therefore a server blocking scripts would be ruined) because we won't be used to scripts/scripting is heartwarming, that assumes that we do have an interest in competitive play. While there are folks who play on public servers and would be interested in competitive play, it seems the vast majority of us would rather just play as we do now.
That may be a blanket statement, but it wouldn't be any worse than you assuming everybody wants to get into competitive play (as you seem to in your arguments, from what I can gather from them). I'd think even you would get tired arguing with every server owner, so it might be best to let it go, and just play on a server that doesn't block scripts.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I respect you opinion. I may even agree with it.
But there's no need to be so negative.
And you can always run your own server if you don't like those available. Hell, you can even create a community, encourage decent play, spend good money on services, police admins and nurture the playing environment you want.
Typing a few things in a forum is easy, but writing a game, learning to code or running servers require a lot of dedication.
Just something to mull over, not a personal attack, so please don't take it as such.
<b>They all have 100 fps or pretty damn close to it</b>
And the reason is, it's not even a debate, either you have high FPS or play a gimped game. HL was designed on 100 fps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's really kind of sad.
Here I thought it was based on skill as opposed to wallet size. Ah well, good to know, I guess.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a world where Americans are dying for oil, it's nice to see one man striving to give people freedom of expression.
Freedom of expression includes the right to express a desire NOT to do something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So people are allowed to make their servers worse now? Guess that is how progressive the NS devs are! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I respect you opinion. I may even agree with it.
But there's no need to be so negative.
And you can always run your own server if you don't like those available. Hell, you can even create a community, encourage decent play, spend good money on services, police admins and nurture the playing environment you want.
Typing a few things in a forum is easy, but writing a game, learning to code or running servers require a lot of dedication.
Just something to mull over, not a personal attack, so please don't take it as such. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Could you please tell me something to be positive over?
2. Actually, I have a plan in the works for a server with #cri.
3. Typing in the forum may be easy, but the reason I type in these forums is to make sure the game I have spent so much time on doesn't go to waste.
You have three things in the development of a game like NS:
- Coders (makes it happen)
- Bug testers (looks for game problems)
- Avid competetive players (looks for gameplay problems)
And the sad fact is, the last one is the least represented in NS's development. It may be time consuming to code, or running a server, but it's also just as time consuming to actually play the game. And out of the 100 or so people who really play this game and stay good at it, I'd say about only 5 people or so out of the 100 are actually listened to. And 5 is being optimistic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's really kind of sad.
Here I thought it was based on skill as opposed to wallet size. Ah well, good to know, I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Your ways are stuck in the console days. lol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah but really, I love how people look for 100 things to blame why they get killed by others... (h4x, scripts, rate hacks...) but the #1 culprit for sure is how high your fps is over theirs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish I could still see the other thread, where voogru had posted something about commands that were executed in scripts.. I couldnt see the reply.. but what had you posted about that voogru?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That he needs to remove the exec and ';' command?
Or he may find a way to leave in simple scripts but take out complex ones?
This game's gonna die for people without 40FPS +
Also, Forlorn, I thought that nothing has been FPS related since 1.04? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if all it offers is convience, lets remove it and make the game worse!
....that's a good idea?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much sums it up. So now that you've figured out that all it does is make setting up the same function more inconvenient (in the setup, not necessarily the game) with a few exceptions that are useless for almost everyone except people who rely on this little bit of convenience for health reasons. Whats the reason to implement this again in such an unthoughtout manner?
Oh right, I forget. The whole reason is obvious in the subtitle of this thread "all scripters must die". A bit of glee at the hope that competitive players will suddenly be utterly dumbfounded without their evil scripts. Well yeah, not only is that a really noble cause, its also not going to happen.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps...
I love your arguement; "The game is getting worse because server ops get the ability to block scripts"..
Don't you consider yourself a bit overly dramatic here? How does blocking scripts worsen NS? It allows server operators to choose if they allow players to script on *their* server. Don't like it? Don't play there. The horror!
Scripting wont be removed from NS, players can still script, your autoexec.cfg will still be fine and your scripts won't die, they'll simply be blocked by people who dislike it.
As for serverside lastinv, there's no reason this wont get fixed in NS when it's brought to the dev's attention.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't preform consistanly, and not NS
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't you consider yourself a bit overly dramatic here? How does blocking scripts worsen NS? It allows server operators to choose if they allow players to script on *their* server. Don't like it? Don't play there. The horror!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. No
2. How does it make it better?
For ways that it makes it worse:
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes
c.) It further divides the community between pr0 scriptos and ant1 scriptors.
2. How does it make it better?
For ways that it makes it worse:
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You still don't get it do you? You have an opinion, fine. But stop acting like everyone has accepted it as facts, wich is simply not true.
I like it how you constantly manage to contradict yourself. Scripts don't make much of a difference skill-wise, been the conclusion many mentioned in previous posts. Yet here you set it as a condition to enter the more 'proffesional' scene. What am I supposed to make out of this? Scripts <b>do</b> offer a considerable difference?
PS: Been managing myself just <u>fine</u> without scripts, in the 'pr0' scene or otherwise.
You have to have a video card from the stoneage to be unable to play any HL games at a decent frame rate. When that's the case, I think it's time to upgrade, not start scripting.
Hell, I've even seen 1 1/2+ year old terrible onboard cards perform at a solid 100fps... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good luck finding a decent video card for games other then HL for PCI.. its impossible.
2. How does it make it better?
For ways that it makes it worse:
a.) The server becomes worse (not an oppinion), you just removed convience
b.) The people who play there will have a harder time moving into competetive play where scripts are widely accepted as much as good aim and fast reflexes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You still don't get it do you? You have an opinion, fine. But stop acting like everyone has accepted it as facts, wich is simply not true.
I like it how you constantly manage to contradict yourself. Scripts don't make much of a difference skill-wise, been the conclusion many mentioned in previous posts. Yet here you set it as a condition to enter the more 'proffesional' scene. What am I supposed to make out of this? Scripts <b>do</b> offer a considerable difference?
PS: Been managing myself just <u>fine</u> without scripts, in the 'pr0' scene or otherwise. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing I say about scripts is an oppinon. It's quite simply the truth. I know it may sound hard to accept, but really it's just a video game and there is a science to it.
Also, where did I contradict myself? Yes, scripts don't make much of a difference skill wise, because scripts are only convience and are there to give you alternative methods of control
For example, we have the +3jumps script, as opposed to using my mousewheel.
I never stated it nessesary to use scripts to be a top clanner. Never once. However, a pubber coming into the NS clan scene who suddenly sees everyone scripting as opposed to his little succluded sever with ignorant admins and regulars who are like "OMG SCRIPTS BAN", well in this case the said wannabe clanner may find it more trouble than it's worth to be a clanner, simply because he doesn't understand the scripting issue. You don't NEED scripts, but they do exist for those who want them.
That's all there is to it. Why is this hard to understand? Scripts offer an advantage, much like tons of other things offer advantages to gaming: A mousewheel, 100 fps, headphones, etc. etc.
Oh and you play for a team? Which one would that be? I've never heard of travis dane, are you a euro? Maybe we can pcw (scrim) sometime.
<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>FILTER OUT MP_BLOCKSCRIPTS SERVERS</span></b>
Mp_blockscripts was supposed to be in 3.0 all along, but it's been bugged. All that's happening is a bug is being fixed.
I don't understand this. People were complaining when it appeared that no development was being done, and when development occurs, people start complaining about what was done.
I'd expect this kind of ignorance from a 12yearold, I made a comment about this kind of behaviour on my previous reply, and i'm not going to make it again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never stated it nessesary to use scripts to be a top clanner. Never once. However, a pubber coming into the NS clan scene who suddenly sees everyone scripting as opposed to his little succluded sever with ignorant admins and regulars who are like "OMG SCRIPTS BAN", well in this case the said wannabe clanner may find it more trouble than it's worth to be a clanner, simply because he doesn't understand the scripting issue. You don't NEED scripts, but they do exist for those who want them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people are free to choose wether to use them, then were exactly is the issue for this new 'wannabe' clanner? He gets introduced into new viewpoints on the issue, that's it. Unless ofcourse, clans are going to force their players to use scripts, let's hope things don't get that dire.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's all there is to it. Why is this hard to understand? Scripts offer an advantage, much like tons of other things offer advantages to gaming: A mousewheel, 100 fps, headphones, etc. etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ofcourse alot of things will be gaining players an advantages, however, it's (possibly) up to the game (or modification) developers to decide what is allowed to give you an extra boost. A fast PC is ofcourse something noone will condem you for, scripts on the other hand, are alot more sensitive. And in the end it are the devs (and possibly the server operators) to give the final say in it.
Scripts are simply a sensitive issue, hence my comment to refrain from your 'look-im-right-and-youre-wrong-period' behaviour.
If you are the one who thinks scripting is controversial like homosexual marrige, where there is no black and white and it's all full of shades of grey, then I'd say you are the ignorant one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If people are free to choose wether to use them, then were exactly is the issue for this new 'wannabe' clanner? He gets introduced into new viewpoints on the issue, that's it. Unless ofcourse, clans are going to force their players to use scripts, let's hope things don't get that dire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong - He'll most likely be taken aback from the clan community, hesiste whether or not to join it. Unless he sees the light - that there is nothing more to scripting than there is playing the game, then he will he probably back down, as his only experience is his little community banning scripts, having zero tolerance for it, and telling him scripts are evil/cheap/cheating.
Oh and what clan are you part of dude? Or are you even in one? I'm just curious to know.
I'm curious, tell me, <b>why</b> are you acting like NSPlayers are little kids, with their minds free for molding? May sound stupid, but that's certainly the impression you're giving me. You're trying to protect their opinions from the evil admins and the bad servers? Seriously, that's just redicelous.
As I stated earlier, a player would only encounter players with different perspectives and opinions towards scripting. And no, he's not going to act like a young kid just arriving on his new school, overwhelmed by the difference.
Neither does my 9600 XT. The inconsistancies you speak of is NS pushing the HL engine beyond it's limits, causing drops in frame rate.
My friend has the worst onboard card I have ever seen, and he can play NS just fine, at a steady 60-100 fps - oddly enough, better than my card.
<!--QuoteBegin-devicenull+Jul 10 2004, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Jul 10 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good luck finding a decent video card for games other then HL for PCI.. its impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never said it wasn't. All I'm saying is that you can easily improve your HL performance with a video card that wasn't created in 1986.
I'm curious, tell me, <b>why</b> are you acting like NSPlayers are little kids, with their minds free for molding? May sound stupid, but that's certainly the impression you're giving me. You're trying to protect their opinions from the evil admins and the bad servers? Seriously, that's just redicelous.
As I stated earlier, a player would only encounter players with different perspectives and opinions towards scripting. And no, he's not going to act like a young kid just arriving on his new school, overwhelmed by the difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not trying to protect anyone; rather I would not like to see an atmosphere of anti-scripting servers/scripting servers. It will create a divide. Now this is an oppinion, and I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that in NS, where you have the most disproportionate clanner/non-clanner ratio out of all the HL games, then I would expect something like sv_blockscripts to create an even bigger divide.
It's not like the entire public scene will reside on anti-scripting. A mixture rather. If I recall correctly the block variable is 0 by default, so the 'damage' would be limited exclusively to server admins that stand by an anti-scripting policy. So either way, scripting on such a server will be tedious. A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.
Also, I don't think <u>forcing</u> script allowance on servers would be good progress, let alone decrease the 'anti' and 'pro' division. You'll only end up with abbreviated admins that start to ban scripters on sight (wich isn't always the most accurate method).
It's not like the entire public scene will reside on anti-scripting. A mixture rather. If I recall correctly the block variable is 0 by default, so the 'damage' would be limited exclusively to server admins that stand by an anti-scripting policy. So either way, scripting on such a server will be tedious. A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.
Also, I don't think <u>forcing</u> script allowance on servers would be good progress, let alone decrease the 'anti' and 'pro' division. You'll only end up with abbreviated admins that start to ban scripters on sight (wich isn't always the most accurate method). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure about the even mix.
Also,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A block variable simply takes away any suspicsions between admins and players, wich is a pretty good thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's to be suspicious about? Why would an admin have anything to worry about in the first place, even if the player scripts?
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!
[Edit] At least he claimed it did, I didn't try it
[Edit] At least he claimed it did, I didn't try it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That script is abusive, yes, but the reason it works is due to a bug in the client to server weapon switching, as far as I know it. The bug busters have been on it for a long time now and hopefully it will be fixed in beta 5 by simply fixing the way you change your weapons.
But damn, I trip on the first one about scripts. GJ JHunz! This is indeed abusive. But still... this is basically the aimbot of scripts. Also there may be limitations to this script, such as not being able to execute any other commands because so many commands are being spammed by the script, and also it may not properly use the '-' part of a command, meaning you will be stuck walking to the left/right. I don't think this is useful in combat, but it would be a cheap way to move around the map.
The script itself isn't abusive, it's actually the script just abusing a bug in the game in the end. Much like the 1.04 pistol was insta cannon of doom with a script, you just put on a ROF cap on the pistol and it's fixed and no long abusable by script.
I should have mentioned that this script was the only abusive one.
Also, there is another script which you may have heard about, the one that makes you run faster. Now for aliens, since you can bhop, this is useless, but for marines it makes you run as fast as a skulk.
You may think, "wow so incredibly lame/unfair" but it's not. You can't shoot your gun, change a walk direction, or do anything else but move in the last direction you held down. I've actually gone out of my way on pubs to see how I could use this one to a great effect, but so far the resuts:
- Get to an area about .5 seconds earlier
- Get killed by an ambush, unable to fire back at the skulk since the script executes itself.
My final oppinion of this: Completely worthless. The advantage of being able to move one foot faster is not worth the risk of being completely harmless if attacked.
Any other script?
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we're not really discussing the reason why admins have these policies...
Rather the fact that the block variable will actually start blocking now.
Name any script, or any script you think is abusive and I'll tell you why the script isn't abusive. Not using any oppinions, either. Pure facts baby!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we're not really discussing the reason why admins have these policies...
Rather the fact that the block variable will actually start blocking now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole point of putting in this filter is to block scripts. Obviously there is a point to everything, so I ask, what is the point to blocking scripts?
The point to the variable is to render server admin's able to block scripts. Why the admins feel like doing so, obviously depends on the admin in question. But I think we've stated enough obvious matters now. You're not really going to convince the dev's to completely remove the variable, so your best bet would be to rant on about it in script-blocked servers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
OH WOE IS YOU, RIGHT?
Listen - There are at least three groups of people out there: those who competitively script, those who don't (and are against it), and those that don't give a damn either way. There is no way that any script champion (such as Forlorn) is EVER, EVER going to convice the second group that scripts are kosher. Trying to make these anti-scripters feel <i>SORRY</i> for you when your boneheaded scripts take functionality away from the game (as described in this 'speed' script, of sorts) is something that's not going to happen - so get off it.
So how about this, fellas: we agree to disagree. Don't like your scripts blocked? Find a new server that allows them and have a fantastic day.
Not that I ever thought you could have put any sort of weight behind your argument to begain with...
That may be a blanket statement, but it wouldn't be any worse than you assuming everybody wants to get into competitive play (as you seem to in your arguments, from what I can gather from them). I'd think even you would get tired arguing with every server owner, so it might be best to let it go, and just play on a server that doesn't block scripts.