<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you are FRIGGIN IDIOTS! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you lose all credibility at this point.
Even with unchained chambers I bet marines would win the majority of the time when there is a non-moron commander (aka no pub games). TURRETS ARE NOT THE WAY TO GO.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 09:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ~D-M-S is NOT a set order. You can choose which to put first. It all depends on your skills as an alien, and how you utilize it. Quaunaut told me he chooses Movement first in his clan, so its apparent that tactics can also change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why do all the top clans (the best aliens in the game, with teamwork far better than on a pub) go DC? Pretty much without exception.
Why dont you ask yourself that question? Its the most reliable, which is why it goes first.
The developers made this with limits in mind, meaning that one chamber per ONE hive. That was the plan, that was how it is supposed to stay. Defense provides the MOST benifits: Regeration being the most used. After that, its purely choice. Sensory can provide benifits for enemy locations, more damage using focus, or sneaking using cloaking. Movement cant provide a speed boost with clarity, or the most used: adrenaline, which I find the most useful.
But like I said, it provides the most bennifits, If you have a regenerating capability already present, I would normally get carpace, or if I dont want to chance it with my res as an Onos, I use redemption, which by the way, saved my neck 5 times today until I ran into a group of HMG heavies...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you lose all credibility at this point.
good day to you sir.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read what I said? I said anyone who thinks NSArms Lab is an unchained server IS a friggin idiot. That also applies for people who dont read my posts and yet somehow think they can reply to them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The developers made this with limits in mind, meaning that one chamber per ONE hive. That was the plan, that was how it is supposed to stay. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wasn't that the case with the evolutions as well though?
Apparantly nothing is written in stone if the devs think it makes for a better game. So saying "that was how it is supposed to stay" is really just arrogance on your part.
You've shown a slight advantage to the aliens with unchained chambers, about 1 game in ten. Right now, we can't even say whether that's an increase or a decrease because we unfortunately don't have stats from Tactical before they put on the unchained mod.
I wonder if there are any servers out there that are looking at adding the unchained mod? If so, it would be great if they could collect stats from the week before putting it on and then again a month later after putting it on and giving the regulars some time to adapt to it.
It seems like I've started a stat-collecting fad, since now everybody wants to do it... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Perhaps the stat manipulation fad should commence as well...
Using similar logic to yours.
*cuts down the time*
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Games ending with anywhere from 9 to 14 players (50 total cumulative) : 22 Marine Victories (44%) 28 Alien Victories (56%)
Wow! Only six games between them! How incredibly balanced is that?
...what do you mean the number itself doesn't matter?
Games ending with anywhere from 9 to 14 players (500 total cumulative) : 220 Marine Victories (44%) 280 Alien Victories (56%)
What the hell? It went up to 60 between them? What is this? Has somebody been screwing about with the server? It should still have six between them!
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<point of view change>
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Ok forget that for a while! Look at the percentages, they are not exactly the same! We all know normal NS is balanced exactly to yield 50/50 outcomes!
What do you mean comparison data?
Comparison data doesn't matter, there is no way at all to rebalance the game once you make this particular change... no way at all! Sure you can do it with every other change... but not this one!
taking stats from the NSA server will just skew your statistics even more to favour aliens, i expect. the skill level (on average) is pretty low, and low skill favours aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unchained the Chambers is good on a few servers, but wanting to incorporate the idea into NS so its on EVERY server, sucks. That is unfair, and the people who want it and people who dont want all have different opinions. So far, only NS boards have been tested on who wants it, and its a 5 to 1 deal here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why does it suck? Do you have a reason? Not everybody is going to agree on everything. If we needed a unanimous vote amongst the entire NS community to make any change, then patches might as well stop right now. The NS boards represent all types of players since posters of pretty much all mindsets post here. You're not going to get a more accurate poll result than that, and 5:1 is simply a huge margin in favor of unchained chambers. That's 83% in favor.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The developers made this with limits in mind, meaning that one chamber per ONE hive. That was the plan, that was how it is supposed to stay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That argument is meaningless. The devs made alien species with hive limits in mind, and that's how it was supposed to stay, but they were unlinked in 2.0 regardless. Things change, opinions change. The game has changed a lot since 1.0. Just because the devs implemented something(which obviously applies to <i>everything</i> in NS) doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But like I said, it provides the most bennifits, If you have a regenerating capability already present, I would normally get carpace, or if I dont want to chance it with my res as an Onos, I use redemption, which by the way, saved my neck 5 times today until I ran into a group of HMG heavies...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, yeah, we know. Ds are easily the best chamber as a first choice. Which makes DMS easily the best upgrade path. Which provides alien with exactly one feasible strategy they can use in that regard. Where's the variety? Doing the same thing every single game is not fun. Marines have a lot of viable choices in how to research their tech, why can't Aliens? We all know why DMS is the popular choice, but we don't think alien gameplay should be restricted to only one upgrade path. That's boring. Unchained chambers is designed to bring variety and fun to the alien team.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did you read what I said? I said anyone who thinks NSArms Lab is an unchained server IS a friggin idiot. That also applies for people who dont read my posts and yet somehow think they can reply to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's referring to the fact that you resorted to simple namecalling when it was obviously not needed.
I dont need to be called a name to be insulted. Having my posts mostly ignored is an insult all in its own.
As for integrating this into NS as a permanent fixture, no. If we want this, we should have half the servers feature this, and half of them NOT feature this. I can see where you are coming from, the aliens getting a flexability in their gameplay, but aliens already have a flexability in HOW they build. They dont need a range of a CC or a TF. They can build anywhere, any time, with any amount of res. Dont you see where this will end up? it's not about the units anymore, its about the fact that the aliens are a lot more free then the marines are. They dont need a commader, a certain limit, or any place they cant build. They are so flexible already.
Also, the marines deserve flexability in their research because there is SO DAMN MUCH of it. 6 arms lab upgrade, 2 obs upgrade, 2 proto lab upgrades, and 2 optional upgrades for a TF. The aliens only need 30 res to spend on 3 of the same type of chamber and bam, you got abilities. While aliens might not have the ability to recieve all the upgrades with 1 hive, there are still 3 to choose from. When you think about it, being aliens is much cheaper, flexible, and able to cover more area.
I'm not saying cancel the project. By all means, let it run on your servers and some-such for as long as you like. But if you try and make this a permanent change in NS, so every server is required to run it, I will disagree with it whole-heartedly. A majority of the people on the NS BOARDS want it implimented... not the players as a whole... (which I might remind you ranges in the thousands)
lol, a lot more free? They have one tech path that they're basically forced to take every game. They don't have the res to afford any luxuries for most of the game. As for location, the only chamber that isn't kept at the hive for safety's sake is sensory, which isn't even used most games thanks to your beloved chained chambers. 3 Ds are placed at the first hive, and the 3 movements are split between the 2 hives. That's it, that's the extent of the aliens' amazing flexibility. They can't afford more until they hold a good number of nodes for an extended period of time. Just because aliens operate differently in res management and have more freedom of movement doesn't mean they're more flexible; they clearly aren't. Where it counts, aliens are set in stone. Where's the RTS element for the alien team? Why aren't they allowed to strategize with the upgrade chambers like the marines can with their tech? Do you really think we should be severely limiting their options in a game that's supposed to be based on strategy?
If not balance, then what is your reasoning for being opposed to this? Just the fact that it doesn't make everyone happy? Well, I can tell you right now that a lot of the things that have been added to this game have not had nearly that level of support, but people dealt with it. You can't make everyone happy. Is it better to do nothing to satisfy the minority, or make a change that makes the majority happy? I understand that a lot of players don't participate in the community at all and some of them might not like it either, but we can't possibly take their opinions into account since they aren't providing them. It's asinine to oppose a change because we don't know what <i>everyone</i> is going to think of it; it's impossible to find out what everyone thinks so there's no point worrying about it. That's like saying the results of an election can't be considered valid unless the vast majority of the population votes. Until someone comes up with a poll of the entire NS playerbase, the one on the forums is the only one that means anything.
By the way, have you played on an unchained server yet?
Well, then make it optional. Make it so that its not a definate version, but a choice for a server to be "Chained" or "Unchained". Dont make changes just because 500 people liked it...
As for the Unchained Server: I have yet to. However, I can see how it would feel a lot like combat, being able to take more then one upgrade per slot, or just about every upgrade you see on the list without restrictions.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 11:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for the Unchained Server: I have yet to. However, I can see how it would feel a lot like combat, being able to take more then one upgrade per slot, or just about every upgrade you see on the list without restrictions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The plugin limits it to one upgrade per hive (if you lose a hive, you do not lose your upgrade until death, however). You cannot take more than one upgrade per category, either.
Again with the numbers thing. Yeah, 550 people like it. 550 out of 677(not counting "Don't care") who took the poll. 81% of people who took the poll approved of the idea. Why don't you say that instead? You seem to have a real problem with interpreting numbers. Make it optional? Continuously dividing the community just so we don't hurt anyone's feelings is not going to help anything. Why the incredible fear of change? Why is it so unfathomable to you that a small portion of the community not like a changelog at first? Think of it the other way around. Not doing this is like making a change that only 20% of the playerbase approves of. We'd only be stepping on more toes by passing this up than patching it in. If you're so big on optional stuff, then someone can probably make a plugin that chains them back together again, but I doubt it's going to be very popular for long. Certainly it makes sense that the minority opinion should be the one that's forced to use a plugin?
And no, it's not at all like Combat. It's like Classic, only aliens are fun again. And you can't take more than one of the same chamber type upgrade; please don't tell me you thought that all along. To be perfectly blunt, you aren't in any position to argue the disadvantages of this change if you can't be bothered to see it for yourself.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 30 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 30 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's like Classic, only aliens are fun again. And you can't take more than one of the same chamber type upgrade; please don't tell me you thought that all along. To be perfectly blunt, you aren't in any position to argue the disadvantages of this change if you can't be bothered to see it for yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Repeated, for emphasis.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 30 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 30 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Again with the numbers thing. Yeah, 550 people like it. 550 out of 677(not counting "Don't care") who took the poll. 81% of people who took the poll approved of the idea. Why don't you say that instead? You seem to have a real problem with interpreting numbers. Make it optional? Continuously dividing the community just so we don't hurt anyone's feelings is not going to help anything. Why the incredible fear of change? Why is it so unfathomable to you that a small portion of the community not like a changelog at first? Think of it the other way around. Not doing this is like making a change that only 20% of the playerbase approves of. We'd only be stepping on more toes by passing this up than patching it in. If you're so big on optional stuff, then someone can probably make a plugin that chains them back together again, but I doubt it's going to be very popular for long. Certainly it makes sense that the minority opinion should be the one that's forced to use a plugin? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait wait wait, you just stop and shut the hell up for a moment.
What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. It doesnt, meaning that your entire thought that since 500 out of 700 like it, means that everyone likes it. No, that 100 still doesnt, and that doesnt mean just because you won a forum poll that is only a fraction fo the actual community, doesnt mean your ideas and your thoughts that since "Well THEY like THIS" means that everyone who doesnt agree is beneath you.
No, if we dont like it, you dont put yourself above US, the people who play the game constantly. You can take that idea and shove it RIGHT UP your a$$.
Change is not bad, but change were some of us have to bear what others think is more important blows. You have 500 people to back you up. Whoop-de-doo-da. How many people play NS? Thousands. Since percentages matter so much to you I'd say you only have a fraction on your side. So, if you want to be like me and get off your sorry butt and get out there and take some real stats, and I dont mean on your little boards where everyone already agrees with you. I mean like put your **** in a game and ask them about it. Just any server. Do it over 40 times every day.
Sure, I havent played in an "unchain chambers" server, but when is the last time you stopped to think about the people who DONT want it, instead of the people who do? Wheather you like it or not you still have to deal with the nay-sayers. That is how it works. Yes, you work to make everyone happy. If you dont, you loose players.
Once again, do not think your idea is god and despite the fact that people dont like it, it gets implimented anyway. You never, EVER, put yourself over the community. Ever.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jul 1 2004, 01:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jul 1 2004, 01:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait wait wait, you just stop and shut the hell up for a moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sigh.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. It doesnt, meaning that your entire thought that since 500 out of 700 like it, means that everyone likes it. No, that 100 still doesnt, and that doesnt mean just because you won a forum poll that is only a fraction fo the actual community, doesnt mean your ideas and your thoughts that since "Well THEY like THIS" means that everyone who doesnt agree is beneath you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Until you can prove otherwise, I am simply running under the assumption that the forum's users as a whole are more or less a microcosm of the game's playerbase. Since there's no evidence to the contrary, shooting down ideas based on complete guesses of what other people might think is pointless. It's not an ideal situation but simply put, we have no choice but to assume that the forum represents the community. The forums draw the most vocal players from both sides of the fence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, if we dont like it, you dont put yourself above US, the people who play the game constantly. You can take that idea and shove it RIGHT UP your a$$.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who's "we?" I don't know why you're using singular words to refer to the unchained side of the debate when the poll shows you're outnumbered. On the other hand, this argument actually makes sense if you flip it around: why should the minority get to put itself above the majority? The poll is a simple democratic process and I'm just using the results.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Change is not bad, but change were some of us have to bear what others think is more important blows.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I already said numerous times, that applies to all forms of change. Somebody's going to get upset every time. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You have 500 people to back you up. Whoop-de-doo-da. How many people play NS? Thousands.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of those thousands didn't vote on the poll. So how they feel is pretty much inadmissable on either side of the argument. I'd love it if every single person who played NS would read that thread and come up with an informed opinion(preferably from experience, *cough*), but that's never going to happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since percentages matter so much to you I'd say you only have a fraction on your side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you have an even smaller fraction on yours. You're trying to play with words to make the poll results seem inconsequential but the flaw in that line of thinking is obvious. It's possible that every single person who didn't vote on the poll is against the idea, or vice versa. Does that mean the whole thing can be thrown out the window? Small-scale statistics show trends, not hard facts. In the case of this poll, the forum is the most accuracy we are going to get. Complaining about it is meaningless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, if you want to be like me and get off your sorry butt and get out there and take some real stats, and I dont mean on your little boards where everyone already agrees with you. I mean like put your **** in a game and ask them about it. Just any server. Do it over 40 times every day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As far as I'm aware, no one has ever done that for any change made to NS. Does that mean that none of them were justifiable? <i>Why do you believe that only a change that has been pre-approved by the entire community is acceptable?</i> Do you or do you not understand that this is impossible and we just have to settle with what we can get? Don't try to act like the forums are an extremely biased source. It's a completely neutral site, it doesn't cater to anyone. Pretty much anyone who's active in the community posts here once in a while at least. Do you have any reason to believe that the forum doesn't represent the community? More importantly, <b>what do you suggest we do about it?</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure, I havent played in an "unchain chambers" server, but when is the last time you stopped to think about the people who DONT want it, instead of the people who do? Wheather you like it or not you still have to deal with the nay-sayers. That is how it works. Yes, you work to make everyone happy. If you dont, you loose players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When was the last time you stopped to think about the people who DO want it, instead of the people who don't? If it were split down the middle then I can understand why one would lean towards remaining the same. However, this is a large majority we are talking about here. Completely ignoring this highly popular suggestion will step on more toes than implementing it. When two sides of an argument completely oppose eachother, neither solution is going to make everyone happy. I don't think there's much room for compromise on this issue. In that situation, what can you do except cater to the majority?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Once again, do not think your idea is god and despite the fact that people dont like it, it gets implimented anyway. You never, EVER, put yourself over the community. Ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, why "you" and "yourself?" I'm not being selfish here. This isn't my idea and I definitely am not the only one who supports it. You're the one who is trying to justify appeasing the minority. "The community" you are referring to is the group of players who never come to the forums, and for all you know they could be just as much in support of this idea as the forumgoers are. It's almost assuredly a fact, however, that the most passionate opponents(as well as supporters I'm sure) of this idea are already active in the community. People who don't come to the forums probably are absent because they just don't feel as strongly about the game as we do. You like to talk as if there are going to be riots in the streets and NS will die if this change goes in, but we have no reason to believe that the non-forumgoers feel so strongly about this issue.
In other words, most of the people who feel strongest about this idea already go to the forums, and thus voted on the poll. People who don't care enough to look at the forums probably aren't going to get their panties in a bunch about the change either.
you are an angry, angry little kid who has far too much of a vested interest in how the way chambers work in NS
every arguement you've made so far can be bent either way because they are completely subjective, you're flaming people in almost every post, and your own data supports unchained chambers, not undermines the idea
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah and what about the people currently who have to put up with someone dropping sensory and screwing the team for the rest of that round or the people who are sick of dms every single game
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jun 30 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jun 30 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. It doesnt, meaning that your entire thought that since 500 out of 700 like it, means that everyone likes it. No, that 100 still doesnt, and that doesnt mean just because you won a forum poll that is only a fraction fo the actual community, doesnt mean your ideas and your thoughts that since "Well THEY like THIS" means that everyone who doesnt agree is beneath you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to note that other polls in the past based upon additions/modifications to the game have never been nearly as overwhelmingly in support of that addition/modification as support has been shown on the poll for unchained chambers. The majority of the past additions/modifications had fairly close votes among the community.
Also, considering that these boards are virtually the only consistent medium for the devs to get community input. I would pose that a large number of the NS community knows this and could easily participate in such discussions and votes, but decide not to. In statistics, these kind of people are considered part of the winning side regardless of how they feel post facto because they had a chance to voice their opinion, but instead decided simply to adapt to whatever came next.
Thus, if the large majority of the people here on the boards support this idea... statistically the large majority of the people in the community as a whole will also support the idea by even larger margins (due partly to the definition stated in paragraph two).
Now instead of simply shooting down the idea by crying wolf and claiming mad imbalances, why not suggest how you would go about establishing more balance to the proposed system (if it is in fact imbalanced). Then we can argue about the system in a constructive manner instead of a "shoot it down and hope it never comes back from the dead" manner.
I would repeat that testamonials on these forums and others will show time and time again that the proposed system adds new flare and excitement to not only the alien game but also the marine game (whether you want to believe it or not). In lieu of this understanding that the system makes the game that much more fun it would behoove us to get it working in a means that is acceptable to as many people as possible and then hopefully have the devs integrate it into the next version (or at least consider the addition of an alternate ruleset/gamemode).
Most of us also don't find people beneath us simply because they disagree. Most of us DO find people beneath us that are not willing to express their disagreements in a logical and civilized manner. Name calling and premature assertions of so called "fact" are examples of what make people ignore other people.
People here are not so disgruntled that you are taking an effort to collect statistics to show some kind of comparison between the two systems. Many here are disgruntled that you asserted opinion as fact based on very limited and possibly biased / anomalous data. In statistics a percentage of something doesn't mean anything unless the data set is so immensely large that a repeat of the same size data set would come out to the exact same percentage. We're talking about data sets on the order of tens of thousands of entries per category being compared... and that's a bare minimum. If you're dead serious about compiling these stats in a meaningful way then you had better be ready to devote at least a few months to organize everything into meaningful categories and to acquire enough data to make the results mean anything. Treating this as some kind of weekend or even weeklong project if laughable to anyone with real scientific knowhow.
This is not to say that i do not applaud your effort. I personally am actually interested to see the results of such research, but I felt it necessary to inform you just the kind of effort you will have to go to in order to get people to earnestly listen. Until then, I would suggest using your disagreement to the system as a means of constructively altering the system that you think would be acceptable not only to those already in favor of the system but also to the majority of those in disfavor of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yeah and what about the people currently who have to put up with someone dropping sensory and screwing the team for the rest of that round or the people who are sick of dms every single game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have an unchained server for that. So go play on it. Thats what.
Well I havent played in any unchained servers... _yet_ . But in serves i play, marines wins like 9 of 10 games so this would balance that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Jul 1 2004, 02:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Jul 1 2004, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yeah and what about the people currently who have to put up with someone dropping sensory and screwing the team for the rest of that round or the people who are sick of dms every single game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have an unchained server for that. So go play on it. Thats what. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, go away with your "the most playable version should be the official one" nonsense. Progress is the enemy.
"How not to present an argument", by Recoup. I like your other titles too: "How to get really angry at people", "How to selectively ignore the opinions of others" and "How to baldly ignore the facts". Any more in the pipeline ?
The fact that 80% of the community want to try unchained speaks for itself. More than small percentage difference in wins between the two sides. Much more.
theres alot of arguing about percentages and who said what.. without trying to hijack this, can I just put out the 'manifesto' for the unchained party. I just get the impression some people are unsure about what it would entale.
* Build any chamber, any time ( resources willing ).
* Alien players may select <b>only one</b> upgrade per hive.
* only one upgrade per chamber ( no regen with cara ).
* enjoy vastly different gaming experiences, sens + def choke points, 2 hive lock down? cloak up a second hive, early cloaking/ silence then mid to late game regen. etc.. etc... etc....
if your going to argue at least state your beliefes as to <b> why </b> the above will be bad, rather then simply, "people dont want it".
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you lose all credibility at this point.
good day to you sir.
Then why do all the top clans (the best aliens in the game, with teamwork far better than on a pub) go DC? Pretty much without exception.
The developers made this with limits in mind, meaning that one chamber per ONE hive. That was the plan, that was how it is supposed to stay. Defense provides the MOST benifits: Regeration being the most used. After that, its purely choice. Sensory can provide benifits for enemy locations, more damage using focus, or sneaking using cloaking. Movement cant provide a speed boost with clarity, or the most used: adrenaline, which I find the most useful.
But like I said, it provides the most bennifits, If you have a regenerating capability already present, I would normally get carpace, or if I dont want to chance it with my res as an Onos, I use redemption, which by the way, saved my neck 5 times today until I ran into a group of HMG heavies...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you lose all credibility at this point.
good day to you sir.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read what I said? I said anyone who thinks NSArms Lab is an unchained server IS a friggin idiot. That also applies for people who dont read my posts and yet somehow think they can reply to them.
Wasn't that the case with the evolutions as well though?
Apparantly nothing is written in stone if the devs think it makes for a better game. So saying "that was how it is supposed to stay" is really just arrogance on your part.
You've shown a slight advantage to the aliens with unchained chambers, about 1 game in ten. Right now, we can't even say whether that's an increase or a decrease because we unfortunately don't have stats from Tactical before they put on the unchained mod.
I wonder if there are any servers out there that are looking at adding the unchained mod? If so, it would be great if they could collect stats from the week before putting it on and then again a month later after putting it on and giving the regulars some time to adapt to it.
Using similar logic to yours.
*cuts down the time*
-----
Games ending with anywhere from 9 to 14 players (50 total cumulative) :
22 Marine Victories (44%)
28 Alien Victories (56%)
Wow! Only six games between them! How incredibly balanced is that?
...what do you mean the number itself doesn't matter?
Games ending with anywhere from 9 to 14 players (500 total cumulative) :
220 Marine Victories (44%)
280 Alien Victories (56%)
What the hell? It went up to 60 between them? What is this? Has somebody been screwing about with the server? It should still have six between them!
-----
<point of view change>
-----
Ok forget that for a while! Look at the percentages, they are not exactly the same! We all know normal NS is balanced exactly to yield 50/50 outcomes!
What do you mean comparison data?
Comparison data doesn't matter, there is no way at all to rebalance the game once you make this particular change... no way at all! Sure you can do it with every other change... but not this one!
-----
Muh.
What a pointless thread...
Why does it suck? Do you have a reason? Not everybody is going to agree on everything. If we needed a unanimous vote amongst the entire NS community to make any change, then patches might as well stop right now. The NS boards represent all types of players since posters of pretty much all mindsets post here. You're not going to get a more accurate poll result than that, and 5:1 is simply a huge margin in favor of unchained chambers. That's 83% in favor.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The developers made this with limits in mind, meaning that one chamber per ONE hive. That was the plan, that was how it is supposed to stay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That argument is meaningless. The devs made alien species with hive limits in mind, and that's how it was supposed to stay, but they were unlinked in 2.0 regardless. Things change, opinions change. The game has changed a lot since 1.0. Just because the devs implemented something(which obviously applies to <i>everything</i> in NS) doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But like I said, it provides the most bennifits, If you have a regenerating capability already present, I would normally get carpace, or if I dont want to chance it with my res as an Onos, I use redemption, which by the way, saved my neck 5 times today until I ran into a group of HMG heavies...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, yeah, we know. Ds are easily the best chamber as a first choice. Which makes DMS easily the best upgrade path. Which provides alien with exactly one feasible strategy they can use in that regard. Where's the variety? Doing the same thing every single game is not fun. Marines have a lot of viable choices in how to research their tech, why can't Aliens? We all know why DMS is the popular choice, but we don't think alien gameplay should be restricted to only one upgrade path. That's boring. Unchained chambers is designed to bring variety and fun to the alien team.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did you read what I said? I said anyone who thinks NSArms Lab is an unchained server IS a friggin idiot. That also applies for people who dont read my posts and yet somehow think they can reply to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's referring to the fact that you resorted to simple namecalling when it was obviously not needed.
As for integrating this into NS as a permanent fixture, no. If we want this, we should have half the servers feature this, and half of them NOT feature this. I can see where you are coming from, the aliens getting a flexability in their gameplay, but aliens already have a flexability in HOW they build. They dont need a range of a CC or a TF. They can build anywhere, any time, with any amount of res. Dont you see where this will end up? it's not about the units anymore, its about the fact that the aliens are a lot more free then the marines are. They dont need a commader, a certain limit, or any place they cant build. They are so flexible already.
Also, the marines deserve flexability in their research because there is SO DAMN MUCH of it. 6 arms lab upgrade, 2 obs upgrade, 2 proto lab upgrades, and 2 optional upgrades for a TF. The aliens only need 30 res to spend on 3 of the same type of chamber and bam, you got abilities. While aliens might not have the ability to recieve all the upgrades with 1 hive, there are still 3 to choose from. When you think about it, being aliens is much cheaper, flexible, and able to cover more area.
I'm not saying cancel the project. By all means, let it run on your servers and some-such for as long as you like. But if you try and make this a permanent change in NS, so every server is required to run it, I will disagree with it whole-heartedly. A majority of the people on the NS BOARDS want it implimented... not the players as a whole... (which I might remind you ranges in the thousands)
If not balance, then what is your reasoning for being opposed to this? Just the fact that it doesn't make everyone happy? Well, I can tell you right now that a lot of the things that have been added to this game have not had nearly that level of support, but people dealt with it. You can't make everyone happy. Is it better to do nothing to satisfy the minority, or make a change that makes the majority happy? I understand that a lot of players don't participate in the community at all and some of them might not like it either, but we can't possibly take their opinions into account since they aren't providing them. It's asinine to oppose a change because we don't know what <i>everyone</i> is going to think of it; it's impossible to find out what everyone thinks so there's no point worrying about it. That's like saying the results of an election can't be considered valid unless the vast majority of the population votes. Until someone comes up with a poll of the entire NS playerbase, the one on the forums is the only one that means anything.
By the way, have you played on an unchained server yet?
As for the Unchained Server: I have yet to. However, I can see how it would feel a lot like combat, being able to take more then one upgrade per slot, or just about every upgrade you see on the list without restrictions.
The plugin limits it to one upgrade per hive (if you lose a hive, you do not lose your upgrade until death, however). You cannot take more than one upgrade per category, either.
And no, it's not at all like Combat. It's like Classic, only aliens are fun again. And you can't take more than one of the same chamber type upgrade; please don't tell me you thought that all along. To be perfectly blunt, you aren't in any position to argue the disadvantages of this change if you can't be bothered to see it for yourself.
Repeated, for emphasis.
Wait wait wait, you just stop and shut the hell up for a moment.
What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. It doesnt, meaning that your entire thought that since 500 out of 700 like it, means that everyone likes it. No, that 100 still doesnt, and that doesnt mean just because you won a forum poll that is only a fraction fo the actual community, doesnt mean your ideas and your thoughts that since "Well THEY like THIS" means that everyone who doesnt agree is beneath you.
No, if we dont like it, you dont put yourself above US, the people who play the game constantly. You can take that idea and shove it RIGHT UP your a$$.
Change is not bad, but change were some of us have to bear what others think is more important blows. You have 500 people to back you up. Whoop-de-doo-da. How many people play NS? Thousands. Since percentages matter so much to you I'd say you only have a fraction on your side. So, if you want to be like me and get off your sorry butt and get out there and take some real stats, and I dont mean on your little boards where everyone already agrees with you. I mean like put your **** in a game and ask them about it. Just any server. Do it over 40 times every day.
Sure, I havent played in an "unchain chambers" server, but when is the last time you stopped to think about the people who DONT want it, instead of the people who do? Wheather you like it or not you still have to deal with the nay-sayers. That is how it works. Yes, you work to make everyone happy. If you dont, you loose players.
Once again, do not think your idea is god and despite the fact that people dont like it, it gets implimented anyway. You never, EVER, put yourself over the community. Ever.
Sigh.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. It doesnt, meaning that your entire thought that since 500 out of 700 like it, means that everyone likes it. No, that 100 still doesnt, and that doesnt mean just because you won a forum poll that is only a fraction fo the actual community, doesnt mean your ideas and your thoughts that since "Well THEY like THIS" means that everyone who doesnt agree is beneath you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until you can prove otherwise, I am simply running under the assumption that the forum's users as a whole are more or less a microcosm of the game's playerbase. Since there's no evidence to the contrary, shooting down ideas based on complete guesses of what other people might think is pointless. It's not an ideal situation but simply put, we have no choice but to assume that the forum represents the community. The forums draw the most vocal players from both sides of the fence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, if we dont like it, you dont put yourself above US, the people who play the game constantly. You can take that idea and shove it RIGHT UP your a$$.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who's "we?" I don't know why you're using singular words to refer to the unchained side of the debate when the poll shows you're outnumbered. On the other hand, this argument actually makes sense if you flip it around: why should the minority get to put itself above the majority? The poll is a simple democratic process and I'm just using the results.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Change is not bad, but change were some of us have to bear what others think is more important blows.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I already said numerous times, that applies to all forms of change. Somebody's going to get upset every time. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You have 500 people to back you up. Whoop-de-doo-da. How many people play NS? Thousands.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of those thousands didn't vote on the poll. So how they feel is pretty much inadmissable on either side of the argument. I'd love it if every single person who played NS would read that thread and come up with an informed opinion(preferably from experience, *cough*), but that's never going to happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since percentages matter so much to you I'd say you only have a fraction on your side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you have an even smaller fraction on yours. You're trying to play with words to make the poll results seem inconsequential but the flaw in that line of thinking is obvious. It's possible that every single person who didn't vote on the poll is against the idea, or vice versa. Does that mean the whole thing can be thrown out the window? Small-scale statistics show trends, not hard facts. In the case of this poll, the forum is the most accuracy we are going to get. Complaining about it is meaningless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, if you want to be like me and get off your sorry butt and get out there and take some real stats, and I dont mean on your little boards where everyone already agrees with you. I mean like put your **** in a game and ask them about it. Just any server. Do it over 40 times every day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I'm aware, no one has ever done that for any change made to NS. Does that mean that none of them were justifiable? <i>Why do you believe that only a change that has been pre-approved by the entire community is acceptable?</i> Do you or do you not understand that this is impossible and we just have to settle with what we can get? Don't try to act like the forums are an extremely biased source. It's a completely neutral site, it doesn't cater to anyone. Pretty much anyone who's active in the community posts here once in a while at least. Do you have any reason to believe that the forum doesn't represent the community? More importantly, <b>what do you suggest we do about it?</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure, I havent played in an "unchain chambers" server, but when is the last time you stopped to think about the people who DONT want it, instead of the people who do? Wheather you like it or not you still have to deal with the nay-sayers. That is how it works. Yes, you work to make everyone happy. If you dont, you loose players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When was the last time you stopped to think about the people who DO want it, instead of the people who don't? If it were split down the middle then I can understand why one would lean towards remaining the same. However, this is a large majority we are talking about here. Completely ignoring this highly popular suggestion will step on more toes than implementing it. When two sides of an argument completely oppose eachother, neither solution is going to make everyone happy. I don't think there's much room for compromise on this issue. In that situation, what can you do except cater to the majority?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Once again, do not think your idea is god and despite the fact that people dont like it, it gets implimented anyway. You never, EVER, put yourself over the community. Ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, why "you" and "yourself?" I'm not being selfish here. This isn't my idea and I definitely am not the only one who supports it. You're the one who is trying to justify appeasing the minority. "The community" you are referring to is the group of players who never come to the forums, and for all you know they could be just as much in support of this idea as the forumgoers are. It's almost assuredly a fact, however, that the most passionate opponents(as well as supporters I'm sure) of this idea are already active in the community. People who don't come to the forums probably are absent because they just don't feel as strongly about the game as we do. You like to talk as if there are going to be riots in the streets and NS will die if this change goes in, but we have no reason to believe that the non-forumgoers feel so strongly about this issue.
In other words, most of the people who feel strongest about this idea already go to the forums, and thus voted on the poll. People who don't care enough to look at the forums probably aren't going to get their panties in a bunch about the change either.
every arguement you've made so far can be bent either way because they are completely subjective, you're flaming people in almost every post, and your own data supports unchained chambers, not undermines the idea
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What makes you think that your ideas and your new thoughts put themselves over the community? What makes you think that just because these people say so means we all have to deal with it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah and what about the people currently who have to put up with someone dropping sensory and screwing the team for the rest of that round or the people who are sick of dms every single game
please go away
I'd like to note that other polls in the past based upon additions/modifications to the game have never been nearly as overwhelmingly in support of that addition/modification as support has been shown on the poll for unchained chambers. The majority of the past additions/modifications had fairly close votes among the community.
Also, considering that these boards are virtually the only consistent medium for the devs to get community input. I would pose that a large number of the NS community knows this and could easily participate in such discussions and votes, but decide not to. In statistics, these kind of people are considered part of the winning side regardless of how they feel post facto because they had a chance to voice their opinion, but instead decided simply to adapt to whatever came next.
Thus, if the large majority of the people here on the boards support this idea... statistically the large majority of the people in the community as a whole will also support the idea by even larger margins (due partly to the definition stated in paragraph two).
Now instead of simply shooting down the idea by crying wolf and claiming mad imbalances, why not suggest how you would go about establishing more balance to the proposed system (if it is in fact imbalanced). Then we can argue about the system in a constructive manner instead of a "shoot it down and hope it never comes back from the dead" manner.
I would repeat that testamonials on these forums and others will show time and time again that the proposed system adds new flare and excitement to not only the alien game but also the marine game (whether you want to believe it or not). In lieu of this understanding that the system makes the game that much more fun it would behoove us to get it working in a means that is acceptable to as many people as possible and then hopefully have the devs integrate it into the next version (or at least consider the addition of an alternate ruleset/gamemode).
Most of us also don't find people beneath us simply because they disagree. Most of us DO find people beneath us that are not willing to express their disagreements in a logical and civilized manner. Name calling and premature assertions of so called "fact" are examples of what make people ignore other people.
People here are not so disgruntled that you are taking an effort to collect statistics to show some kind of comparison between the two systems. Many here are disgruntled that you asserted opinion as fact based on very limited and possibly biased / anomalous data. In statistics a percentage of something doesn't mean anything unless the data set is so immensely large that a repeat of the same size data set would come out to the exact same percentage. We're talking about data sets on the order of tens of thousands of entries per category being compared... and that's a bare minimum. If you're dead serious about compiling these stats in a meaningful way then you had better be ready to devote at least a few months to organize everything into meaningful categories and to acquire enough data to make the results mean anything. Treating this as some kind of weekend or even weeklong project if laughable to anyone with real scientific knowhow.
This is not to say that i do not applaud your effort. I personally am actually interested to see the results of such research, but I felt it necessary to inform you just the kind of effort you will have to go to in order to get people to earnestly listen. Until then, I would suggest using your disagreement to the system as a means of constructively altering the system that you think would be acceptable not only to those already in favor of the system but also to the majority of those in disfavor of it.
You have an unchained server for that. So go play on it. Thats what.
But in serves i play, marines wins like 9 of 10 games so this would balance that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You have an unchained server for that. So go play on it. Thats what. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, go away with your "the most playable version should be the official one" nonsense. Progress is the enemy.
The fact that 80% of the community want to try unchained speaks for itself. More than small percentage difference in wins between the two sides. Much more.
without trying to hijack this, can I just put out the 'manifesto' for the unchained party.
I just get the impression some people are unsure about what it would entale.
* Build any chamber, any time ( resources willing ).
* Alien players may select <b>only one</b> upgrade per hive.
* only one upgrade per chamber ( no regen with cara ).
* enjoy vastly different gaming experiences, sens + def choke points, 2 hive lock down? cloak up a second hive, early cloaking/ silence then mid to late game regen. etc.. etc... etc....
if your going to argue at least state your beliefes as to <b> why </b> the above will be bad, rather then simply, "people dont want it".
Recoup, titanium, enjoy your holiday.