<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Feb 2 2005, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Feb 2 2005, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Probably mentioned before but does anyone else see a strange problem with having 2 full built CCs? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 10 free res for the marines? I haven't noticed it had two ccs before, I just looked at the minimap and saw it. Remove the second cc.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat Popsicle+Feb 28 2005, 11:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Meat Popsicle @ Feb 28 2005, 11:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so has this been submitted yet? if so got any feedback? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's been submitted. There is a possibility of it being in 3.1, but there are some serious balance concerns. I'm not sure if it's been playtested, but the possibility of its official inclusion will probably rest on whether I can keep up enough to balance it after the release of 3.0
Keep an eye on my mapping guidelines in the Competitive Discussion Forum to help resolve your balance issues. They're being updated, slowly, but if you have a particular problem that I haven't covered yet then PM me ftw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It'd be a shame to see such a nice map kept from official status...
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
welp, I'm back from spring break and I've got a new version compiling. I've improved the visuals in some of the lacking areas, reworked the lower left area to be more interesting and have more vents, and generally turned down the suck and turned up the awesome.
is that the download in your sig up-to-date? or are you still compiling? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Mar 14 2005, 01:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Mar 14 2005, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> is that the download in your sig up-to-date? or are you still compiling? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> At the moment I'm having bad surface extents issues. I'll let you know when I get them resolved.
Changelog:<ul><li>Added lots of sounds</li><li>Added vents from airlock hive to both seige locations.</li><li>Added weldable on one of said vents.</li><li>Removed second CC (maybe someday it will return <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )</li><li><b>Made area south of cryochambers not suck.</b></li><li>Added new monitor screen (one of several to come)</li><li>Added nifty little particle system to shiva core and a trigger hurt at the bottom.</li><li>Dropped bounce factor to increase contrast back to earlier levels. (makes Marine start less bleed eyes bright)</li><li>Reworked area north of Airlock. Much prettier now.</li></ul>Still to do:<ul><li>Figure out how to add a trigger hurt to the draft shafts while still making it realistic that skulks die if they touch the bottom ever so lightly.</li><li>Fix up the area south east of Marine start</li><li>Add easter eggs.</li></ul>
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-ssjyoda+Mar 15 2005, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ssjyoda @ Mar 15 2005, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i still dont get how altair is official and this isn't... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well, we still don't know how it plays . . . <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I'm starting up a beta test server for the map. This might be rocky since I've never run a dedicated server before, and at some point in the next 24 hours I'm going to need to get started on my computer music homework (which really eats the cpu cycles) but its here. I'd love to hear what people think of the map.
Look for ns_shiva test server. Its running ns_shivab2a
Will that be the texture ingame? because I want to read all the little text to see if their are more easter eggs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Love your map dude, I really do. I hope it gets official, the sooner the better.
<u><b>Marine-start:</b></u> I like the marine start, but it would be good to make it a bit bigger. In the next picture you can see my basic layout which is just fine. But once you want to squeeze in a turret factory and the additional turrets it gets cramped. Add to that the fact that when you are pushed back into your base by the aliens and you play with let's say 10 marines, there is not much place to manouver. I would suggest: - to make the marine start a bit bigger in width and/or depth. - to perhaps rotate 90° the commandchair and/or make more room around the commandchair so that when you hop out of the commandchair you are not faced with your back to the marinestart. This is necessary when a lone skulk attacks your base and you want to hop out to kill him (so that you are not faced with your back to the aliens). <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/7794/marinestarttdv9ox.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u><b>Hives</b></u> <span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Airlock</b></u></span> I think the problem with this hive is that: - it's too deep. When you secure (with turret factory) near the ressnode or when you reloc to the ressnode the aliens must have a hard time to take it back, and ... - the fact that the two entrances/exits are close to eachother makes it hard to hit and run. Imagine the marines having heavy-machineguns and shotties they can take down the incoming higher lifeforms rather easily. Perhaps you should move the right entrance/exit or add a secon entrance/exit to the right side of the hive. In this picture you can see by the range of the turret factory how close the entrances/exits are to eachother. <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/9298/airlockhivetf8fx.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I don't like the ramp indicated by the red arrows: <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/1702/airlockrampindicated2rx.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I would rather see the texture of the ramp as in this picture (or a similar see-through textur): <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/5529/airlockrampexample7wu.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Another problem near the Airlock hive (at shipment processing) is at the weldable doors. Once the marines have welded the doors, this room becomes inaccesible. But the rines can still build structures in it before or even after it has been welded. -> A solution might be to add a vent that leads towards this room, but that might be abused by the aliens to build structures in there that the rines have difficulty to reach (for instance by building a phasegate throught the wall). -> Another solution might be to make only one of the two doors close, preferably the door that is the most far away from the hive. <img src='http://img65.exs.cx/img65/7884/shipmentprocessingweldable3vb.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Datacore</b></u></span> I like the fact that the water has to be drained from the weldable at 'Sublevel Control', which is a suitable name. I don't think 'Datacore' is a suitable name for that hive as there are no computers or high-tech machines to be seen. I think you should alter the name to something that has to do with draining away the water with the big pipes that are present in that hive. I would also suggest to change the level of the water (because I think that relocating to a hive should allways be an option even if this hive is far away there can be a situation where such a reloc is needed. For instance when the base gets raped). My first idea was to make the water come as high and as far as the white line. But then I came up with another idea: change the gradient of the ramp so that the waterlevel will come up to where the red line is: <img src='http://img134.exs.cx/img134/4599/datacorehivewaterlimit1ao.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The reason of my second idea is simple: it would encourage to first weld the weldable at 'Sublevel Control' in order to place the turret factory more strategically: <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/1177/datacorehivetf2ew.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> One thing I noticed (but which is just a minor issue) is that before the water is welded away there is water everywhere in the hive: <img src='http://img65.exs.cx/img65/8900/datacorehivewater4va.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> This spot in the hive is very difficult to reach. I know you can compare it to a vent, but I was wondering if it's not better: -> to add a second ladder (the ladder that is indicated in white is an existing ladder but doesn't make it possible to reach that spot indicated in red) or another way to make it reachable (for instance when there is a sensory chamber over there) -> or to add a vent so that you can access that spot <img src='http://img217.exs.cx/img217/2220/datacorehiveunaccesebleroombis.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Coolant Exchange</b></u></span> When this hive is locked down, this hive is a dead trap for onos who try to take it out (depending of course where you lock it down), but for fades it's not that bad. As you can see in the image I posted you can build up there, once you've secured it there, don't count on an ono to take it out. It's fades work or at two hives the gorge can come in to bilebom. Can you tell me why you made the area that I indicated in red a 'no build zone', as structures (besides the resource tower) cannot be build there. <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/8364/coolantexchangehive8vy.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I think you should change this area. It might be good to make the ladder higher (first I thought to move it to where the red arrow points). But what is more important: you should make it possible (with a ledge?) to go up to where the marine is. This would allow the possible ono to hit and run the locked-down hive. <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/7157/coolantexchangehiveladder8fp.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This map is a piece of art. It's a pitty you have to touch a piece of art to make it more playable ^^ .
These were just my thoughts, I don't claim to know the truth. But I am convinced that the more information you get the better you will know what to do with your map. I have more information to share later on, but now it's bedtime as I have to wake up early tomorrow.
I hope this info was usefull.
Greetz, XtOf
Thanks to <a href='http://imageshack.us/' target='_blank'>imageshack</a> for hosting the pictures.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2005
Moultano
I am trying to join your server. I have just downloaded the bsp but half-life crashes out with the 'cant open ns_shiva.wad' error. Please can you sort that out as i want to play this map!!!!
[EDIT]Just realised that the download from the server didn't include the wad file. I'll have to download your map by other means. Just letting you know.[/EDIT]
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Just played this map (privately...) and it looks to me that the map is marine biased, because there isn't much room for bhopping skulks, and too many corridors. I think there needs to be a few more rooms, and a few less corridors. Just my opinion, though.
.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> THANKYOU! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> that's a great help. I'll look into all of that. Some of those are already fixed. I can't thank you enough. That's extremely helpful.
Edit: My reasoning for the water was just as you said, it prevents relocating. Because that hive is really large, and there is a double node nearby (and games in which the middle hive is locked down tend to be very drawn out and boring) I wanted the marines to really have to work to relocate there.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 28 2005, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 28 2005, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Xtof+Mar 26 2005, 05:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xtof @ Mar 26 2005, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hello multano, .... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> THANKYOU! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> that's a great help. I'll look into all of that. Some of those are already fixed. I can't thank you enough. That's extremely helpful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm glad my 'little' contribution has helped you with the 'huge' work you have put into this map. In my experience it is often easier for an outsider to give a fresh opinion on something a person has been working on for a long time.
<u>So what is on the menu today? Well, let's talk about the <b><span style='color:green'>elevators</span></b></u>: The locations where the elevators are situated is just fine. The amount of elevators - four in total - is good, and they work (almost -> see Ono stuck isue later on) perfect when being in-the-field as a marine or as an alien. The thing I want to address is the control the commander has over the elevators. In my opinion (and not only mine) the commander should have control over the elevators (as he is logged into the system) and being able to make elevators go up and down is as such part of the game and the gameplay. <u>There are (or at least there should be) two ways to move the elevators:</u> 1) by clicking on the switches 2) by clicking on the elevator itself From the commander point-of-view I think <b>it is important that he can move the elevators by (2) clicking on the elevator itself</b> and it is <u>less important</u> that he is able to do that by (1) clicking on the switches (this for the evident reason that the surface of the elevator is bigger then the switches). Speaking about switches, I was wondering if you could make them a bit bigger as they are sometimes difficult to spot (but that's perhaps just so the first time you play the map, after a while you know where they are). <u>Here are the results of <b>my</b> test (I give you the location where the elevator is situated)</u>: <span style='color:red'>red</span> = bad <b>bold</b> = good
</li><li>Elevator is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Upper switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Lower switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <span style='color:red'>no dammage</span>
</li></ul> <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Left</i></b></u></span> <ul>
</li><li>Elevator <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Upper switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Lower switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <b>dammage</b>
</li></ul> <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Right</i></b></u></span> <ul>
</li><li>Elevator is <b>clickable</b> <span style='color:red'>at a certain angle</span> -> if you move from a top down view to the right, then at a certain angle you can activate it
</li><li>Upper switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Lower switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <b>dammage</b>
</li></ul>
I think the best thing to do is to make it unable to build structures under elevators, it would mainly hinder the gameplay. I'm not a mapper myself (I've tried it but I suck at it), and know very little about hammer and how to make ns_maps with it, so I don't know whether making it unable to build is an issue: <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Cryochambers</b></u></span> The structure takes dammage, but it can block an ono (and the cute gorgie) from going up. If you can't make the surfaces under the elevators unbuildable (which I doubt, unless it's a clipnode issue, which I also don't know.). If there is no workaround I suggest you increase the dammage the elevator(s) brings to the structures, so that the structure dissapears instantly by the first hit taken. <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 15 2005, 07:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 15 2005, 07:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->98.4% clipnodes! WOOOO!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/979/cryochamberstfunderelevatorwit.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Left</i></b></u></span> same as <span style='color:green'><u>Cryochambers</u></span> <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Right</i></b></u></span> same as <span style='color:green'><u>Cryochambers</u></span> <span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Shiva Core (<i>near </i>double)</b></u></span> As mentioned above: Structures built under elevator takes <span style='color:red'>no dammage</span>. <img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/3705/shivacoretfunderelevator2lk.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> You may argue that the ono can use the ladders (that you can see at both sides of the elevator) to go up and down, as he actually fits in there. But when for instance an Ono goes down with the elevator and there is a turret factory under it (which takes no dammage), the ono is stuck. He cannot go up and he cannot crouch through the gap you see in the next picture (in the picture the Ono is crouching). <img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7616/shivacoreelevatorono9ye.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Another issue I encountered at <span style='color:green'><u><b>Shiva Core (<i>near </i>double)</b></u></span>: As you can see in the next picture (which is taken from the position - with the elevator down- looking at double) it is not possible to shoot through that texture, you should be able to do that since the texture that you used oughts to make that possible. <b>If</b> for instance double is taken by the marines the aliens cannot use certain abilities from up-there, which I think is necessary in order to take it back: -> the skulk cannot parasite -> the gorge cannot bilebomb -> the lerk is not able to spore the rines -> the fade cannot use acid-rocket <b>If</b> for instance double is taken by the aliens, which are defending the place eventually helped by oc's: -> the marines cannot shoot aliens or structures from there. <img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/2189/shivacoreelevator1ai.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> As I was testing I noticed something else. I post it, because it might be usefull for you (As I said, I don't know that much about mapping or how to make them properly). I went to the other side of that texture to see if I could shoot through that texture from there, which didn't work as you can see in the red circle. <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/3394/shivacorebulletimpact0ww.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Then - rather by accident - I flew with my jetpack towards the bullet-impacts just to notice that when I went as close as you can see in the picture; the bullet-impact had dissapeared. Perhaps this is a sign of what might be wrong with how you handled the placement of that texture. I was wondering if perhaps it isn't better to remove that texture alltogether. The decision is up to you: -> <u>On one hand</u> keeping that texture <b>slows down both races</b> from going through and forces them to use the elevator or the ladder as it is there for a purpose (both the elevator and the texture)!! -> But - <u>on the other hand</u> - taking that texture away would allow : - <b>the aliens</b> (the skulk to move faster in both directions, the gorge to jump down faster, the lerk to fly through in both directions, the fade to hit and run in both directions, and the Ono to jump down) to move faster too. And it would be easier for the gorge to build oc's (chambers in general) there as he doesn't have to egg on that platform. - As for <b>the marines</b>: they can jump down the elevator, and when they have jetpacks it is a time-saver in both directions. But I have to admit that when the marines are moving in a Heavy-Armor train, it is better for them to stick together and - as such - to use the elevator. I'm just giving you food for thought. <img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/9233/shivacorebulletimpactgone2lg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I noticed that you can build up there (this is the platform between the elevator and double, the place I mentioned where the gorges would easily build oc's to cover up double), it's up to you to see whether you should get rid of that. Look three pictures bellow from here to see a top-down view and the neutral spectator/reader will better understand what I mean (as I think you don't want stuff to be built there by the marines-team). <img src='http://img235.exs.cx/img235/673/shivacorebuildable9ge.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I noticed a bug: I had put the phasegate there (with sv_cheats 1, and bigdig -> builds structures automatically), I phased through and wanted to weld the weldable (to get access to the second node at 'double'), only to notice it didn't work (probably because the phase gate is in the way). The solution is - I think - to put the weldable higher. <img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1562/shivacoredoubleweldbug4hs.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I came up with this 'crazy' idea, starting from the fact that I think that 'Shiva Core' is perhaps not open enough. Also my idea would change double more into a room and less into a corridor, because I think NolSinkler has a point. <!--QuoteBegin-NolSinkler+Mar 28 2005, 03:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Mar 28 2005, 03:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just played this map (privately...) and it looks to me that the map is marine biased, because there isn't much room for bhopping skulks, and <b>too many corridors. I think there needs to be a few more rooms, and a few less corridors.</b> Just my opinion, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Although you can debate on the fact if more openness is really necessary and suitable at the Shiva Core (which is a potential double ressnode), I will just suggest this idea (before it gets lost, not that I will forget about - what I think is - a good idea ^^): -> The way it is now, the weldable makes the wall of the 'potential double ressnode' move into the ground. -> Make it so that double is transformed into two pipes (make them transparent if possible, this would add to the atmosphere) - with each the size of a ressnode - coming down from the ceiling into the ressnodes (you have to imagine that the pipes go down further into the ground as a source of power, but that the ressnodes take that power out of the stations resources). - The pipe of <b>the available ressnode</b> - that you don't have to weld - is broken (let's say for about 2/3 of the heigth and on the same place as it is open now, so that you can access it. - Then the <b>weldable ressnode</b> at the second pipe makes it so <u>that both pipes go into the ceiling</u> => This way the second ressnode becomes available and the 'room' becomes more open. Perhaps you can make it so that once it is welded you can fit in a Turret Factory or a Phasegate between the two ressnodes. With this idea - of the pipes in mind - you could change the name from 'Shiva Core' to 'Shiva Core Power', or even bettter (or perhaps just more simple) into 'Core <b>Power</b>' ('Core Powerstation' would not be that good I think). <img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1087/shivacoredoubleidea5wn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> After this first idea for 'Shiva Core' I came up with an alternative/additional idea (depending on the way you might want to implement it as you can implement both ideas together). As it has been stated in this topic - some rooms are a bit tight - and I think that 'Shiva Core' is a bit tight for a good fight. This is the suggestion I came up with, as you can see in the next picture, enlarge the room to where the red lines come: <img src='http://img235.exs.cx/img235/6957/shivacorebigpicturesuggestion1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> One last thing before I go to sleep: I noticed that there is no appropriate siege-spot for 'Shiva Core (double)'. One place I was thinking of and that is easy to alter is the corridor South-East of 'Shiva Core', you can make that corridor into a corner room.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Again, great work! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I believe I've fixed most of the issues with the elevators interacting structures, I'll investigate where the commander can activate them. I'm thinking I'll keep the damage relatively low so that you still have time to get out if you happen to get caught underneath.
Your ideas for shiva core are fantastic. I suspect that the limiting factor on what I implement is going to be r_speeds. That room has a ton of polygons in it, and opening it up too much really shoots them through the roof. I'll see what I can do though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <span style='color:red'><b><3</b></span> your feedback! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> you rock!
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> moultano i like the swing pool at hive but a back exit like a vent will be nice.
the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot. i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room.
i show:
the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms. blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms.
the grreen line is where the textures could look complete and interconect.
i show up here the drill shaft the red dot where i fall with my oni and stay lock inside with out lader or elevator, maybe a clip brush covering or steam pusing u up, or some kind of fence around it would protect the charging onos.
could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive <a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.
could add thsi vent in that hive to near hallway for gorges bile pg near hive and make a back door for alien escape or a new way to arrive by jet pack to hive. <a href='http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=nsshivab2a00122ht.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img32.exs.cx/img32/2950/nsshivab2a00122ht.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
this vent could lead be up in this point and change this peace of detail in a siege room. <a href='http://img110.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img110&image=nsshivab2a00136mp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img110.exs.cx/img110/1406/nsshivab2a00136mp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here a nice feature relocate the door at red line to where the arrow indicate and make walls in the blue lines so u have a siege room inside of a hive and nice break of the double acess bye the doors.
Thanks a lot m<b><u>o</u></b>ultano, I do the best I can to help you out.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe I've fixed most of the issues with the elevators interacting structures, I'll investigate where the commander can activate them. I'm thinking I'll keep the damage relatively low so that you still have time to get out if you happen to get caught underneath.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-> I think it is <u>fine to keep the dammage relatively low</u> in order to not kill marines and aliens when they are under an elevator. But I encountered a situation at one elevator, where I was under the elevator and I made the elevator go down. The problem was that the elevator went down and I got stuck because the elevator didn't go up again <u>automatically</u> (I'll post a picture of that later)! I'll examine that with all the elevators. -> Besides keeping the dammage relatively low, I think it is necessary to <u>make the zone under the elevator a no-build zone</u>. Can you give me any confirmation on that?
Your ideas for shiva core are <b>fantastic</b>. I suspect that the limiting factor on what I implement is going to be r_speeds. That room has a ton of polygons in it, and opening it up too much really shoots them through the roof. I'll see what I can do though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks a lot for appreciating my idea. It was exactly my thought that the r_speeds can cause a problem and be the limiting factor. Aren't the r_speeds are influenced by the polygons <u>and</u> by what you can see from your point of view? If the later is true, I'm sure you can work things out at 'Shiva Core' by replacing some stuff (adding walls to block the line of sight). Can you please give me confirmation whether the amount of what you can see influences the r_speeds (I did a search but couldn't come up with any usefull results). If that is the case I can perhaps give you my thoughts on changing some stuff over there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 30 2005, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 30 2005, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->moultano, dispite the fact that he spelled your name wrong, If you don't include XtoF in your map credits I will hunt you down and kill you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol swiftspear, you actually make me feel good about myself. By the way it's not XtoF but Xtof or XtOf <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the new view: <a href='http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=nsshivab2a00025yt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img49.exs.cx/img49/481/nsshivab2a00025yt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot. i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room. i show: the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms. blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms. the grreen line is where the textures could look complete and interconect. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carioca, isn't that the old marine start in that picture instead of the new one?
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00035cn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/6784/nsshivab2a00035cn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> i show up here the drill shaft the red dot where i fall with my oni and stay lock inside with out lader or elevator, maybe a clip brush covering or steam pusing u up, or some kind of fence around it would protect the charging onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> M<u><b>o</b></u>ultano: What you want to do with the 'Draft Shafts'? -> Make it so that when you fall into it you die ? -> Make a ladder into the shaft? -> Or a combination of both (I'll add a picture later to try to show my concept)? <span style='color:red'>WARNING!</span> you are about to read a very stupid question: do ladders eat up clipnodes (I really have no idea about that)?
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a0005b2xv.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8600/nsshivab2a0005b2xv.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> here the ladder going up in cryo chambers or a ladder and a second elevator that second could be broke a 1/3 of the way up. <a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00057vz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/310/nsshivab2a00057vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think that idea is worth implementing, that one elevator should be more then enough and that ladder is not necessary. I have another idea to change parts of that area and will post that later on.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive <a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'> <img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that there needs to be a vent/connection between Database Transmission and Airlock. But I think that your vent is to 'straight' (In my opinion, the lower alien-lifeforms would be able to go to fast from Datacore to Airlock) and I see another option (which I will post later on, and which suits the 'feel' of the map better). Carioca, I hope you are aware that <u>there is a vent</u> leading from Airlock to where the elevator is beneath Cryochambers! <u>To ALL the readers: there are vents, but you have to FIND THEM !!</u> (I'm not saying that there are enough vents, but the vents that are present in the map at the moment are leet!!).
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> could add thsi vent in that hive to near hallway for gorges bile pg near hive and make a back door for alien escape or a new way to arrive by jet pack to hive. <a href='http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=nsshivab2a00122ht.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img32.exs.cx/img32/2950/nsshivab2a00122ht.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> this vent could lead be up in this point and change this peace of detail in a siege room. <a href='http://img110.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img110&image=nsshivab2a00136mp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img110.exs.cx/img110/1406/nsshivab2a00136mp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion this is a good idea, I will look into it myself, but it seems to be good !!
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a00140pq.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/5760/nsshivab2a00140pq.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> here a nice feature relocate the door at red line to where the arrow indicate and make walls in the blue lines so u have a siege room inside of a hive and nice break of the double acess bye the doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carioca (are you from France, because sometimes it is very hard to understand what you mean). I agree that (to my knowledge, as I haven't really tested it) Airlock and Datacore are not easy to siege. Could you please clarify more the way you see it, because the way it is now <u>those doors are weldable, and once welded they close</u>. So how would you do it? I for instance, and in your example, would make it so that (considering we keep the doors weldable) the door (once they are welded) the most far from the hive would open completly and the door closest to the hive would close completly. This would make it easy to siege. However, in this situation the aliens can only/mainly protect and attack the marines from the left entrance/exit of Airlock, which in my opinion would not be enough. I will look into that too.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> xtof i dont mistake the images i show up your image of ms to show how is now and how i wanna change i edit the image including textures in the floor and put lines to show up what i change in the image.
the new vent i sugest because the exist ones are dam slow and hide so i see this issue better in a dead area like that corner.
the hive could be out of that double door and weld stuff i will be happy if u make that door details of the wall instead of a siege room.
xtof im not french, i m brasilian so i speak portuguese not english that languague i try speak but i'm not good in it.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Xtof+Mar 30 2005, 02:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xtof @ Mar 30 2005, 02:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the new view: <a href='http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=nsshivab2a00025yt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img49.exs.cx/img49/481/nsshivab2a00025yt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot. i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room. i show: the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms. blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms. the green line is where the textures could look complete and interconect. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carioca, isn't that the old marine start in that picture instead of the new one?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> xtof i dont mistake the images i show up your image of ms to show how is now and how i wanna change i edit the image including textures in the floor and put lines to show up what i change in the image.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <u>Can you please (please) explain the logic behind what you say, it would help us all a lot, as to WHY you want to change it THAT way</u>. <!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive <a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'> <img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that there needs to be a vent/connection between Database Transmission and Airlock. But I think that your vent is to 'straight' (In my opinion, the lower alien-lifeforms would be able to go to fast from Datacore to Airlock) and I see another option (which I will post later on, and which suits the 'feel' of the map better). Carioca, I hope you are aware that <u>there is a vent</u> leading from Airlock to where the elevator is beneath Cryochambers! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the new vent i sugest because the exist ones are dam slow and hide so i see this issue better in a dead area like that corner.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:red'>EDIT:</span> This is a CONCEPT I came up with and I would like to know people's opinion: About the <b><span style='color:green'>hive</span></b>: 1) Do you think a change is needed at Airlock Hive? Yes or No and most importantly WHY you think Yes or No (I can't read your minds, I'm planning to learn it but at the moment I just can't). 2) If Yes and you look at the next picture (my reason for making that change is to make Airlokc easier <u>to siege</u> AND to make it easier for aliens <u>to hit and run</u>, so that they can take back the 'locked down hive'): - do you think it is good to take away the the right entrance (as in the picture) <u>or</u> would you keep it so that there are THREE entrances to the hive? - if you don't agree to the suggested change then WHAT is your proposal? Change it or keep it the way it is? About the <b><span style='color:blue'>vent</span></b>: 1) Do you think it is a good addition? Yes or no and please explain. <img src='http://img38.exs.cx/img38/4954/airlockproposal0ty.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> This is HOW it could look from inside 'Airlock Hive' with the change that I suggested: <img src='http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7906/airlockhivenewentrance4vq.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <span style='color:red'>END EDIT</span> <!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the hive could be out of that double door and weld stuff i will be happy if u make that door details of the wall instead of a siege room. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No comprende mate, I don't understand what you are saying.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> xtof im not french, i m brasilian so i speak portuguese not english that languague i try speak but i'm not good in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well good luck with practicing your english.
Comments
10 free res for the marines? I haven't noticed it had two ccs before, I just looked at the minimap and saw it.
Remove the second cc.
It's been submitted. There is a possibility of it being in 3.1, but there are some serious balance concerns. I'm not sure if it's been playtested, but the possibility of its official inclusion will probably rest on whether I can keep up enough to balance it after the release of 3.0
It'd be a shame to see such a nice map kept from official status...
At the moment I'm having bad surface extents issues. I'll let you know when I get them resolved.
and I thought 89.5% may be little short... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
check this **** out.
<a href='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ns_shivab2a.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ns_shivab2a.zip</a>
Changelog:<ul><li>Added lots of sounds</li><li>Added vents from airlock hive to both seige locations.</li><li>Added weldable on one of said vents.</li><li>Removed second CC (maybe someday it will return <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )</li><li><b>Made area south of cryochambers not suck.</b></li><li>Added new monitor screen (one of several to come)</li><li>Added nifty little particle system to shiva core and a trigger hurt at the bottom.</li><li>Dropped bounce factor to increase contrast back to earlier levels. (makes Marine start less bleed eyes bright)</li><li>Reworked area north of Airlock. Much prettier now.</li></ul>Still to do:<ul><li>Figure out how to add a trigger hurt to the draft shafts while still making it realistic that skulks die if they touch the bottom ever so lightly.</li><li>Fix up the area south east of Marine start</li><li>Add easter eggs.</li></ul>
well, we still don't know how it plays . . . <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Look for ns_shiva test server. Its running ns_shivab2a
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Love your map dude, I really do. I hope it gets official, the sooner the better.
<u><b>Marine-start:</b></u>
I like the marine start, but it would be good to make it a bit bigger. In the next picture you can see my basic layout which is just fine. But once you want to squeeze in a turret factory and the additional turrets it gets cramped. Add to that the fact that when you are pushed back into your base by the aliens and you play with let's say 10 marines, there is not much place to manouver. I would suggest:
- to make the marine start a bit bigger in width and/or depth.
- to perhaps rotate 90° the commandchair and/or make more room around the commandchair so that when you hop out of the commandchair you are not faced with your back to the marinestart. This is necessary when a lone skulk attacks your base and you want to hop out to kill him (so that you are not faced with your back to the aliens).
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/7794/marinestarttdv9ox.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u><b>Hives</b></u>
<span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Airlock</b></u></span>
I think the problem with this hive is that:
- it's too deep. When you secure (with turret factory) near the ressnode or when you reloc to the ressnode the aliens must have a hard time to take it back, and ...
- the fact that the two entrances/exits are close to eachother makes it hard to hit and run. Imagine the marines having heavy-machineguns and shotties they can take down the incoming higher lifeforms rather easily.
Perhaps you should move the right entrance/exit or add a secon entrance/exit to the right side of the hive.
In this picture you can see by the range of the turret factory how close the entrances/exits are to eachother.
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/9298/airlockhivetf8fx.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I don't like the ramp indicated by the red arrows:
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/1702/airlockrampindicated2rx.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I would rather see the texture of the ramp as in this picture (or a similar see-through textur):
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/5529/airlockrampexample7wu.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Another problem near the Airlock hive (at shipment processing) is at the weldable doors. Once the marines have welded the doors, this room becomes inaccesible. But the rines can still build structures in it before or even after it has been welded.
-> A solution might be to add a vent that leads towards this room, but that might be abused by the aliens to build structures in there that the rines have difficulty to reach (for instance by building a phasegate throught the wall).
-> Another solution might be to make only one of the two doors close, preferably the door that is the most far away from the hive.
<img src='http://img65.exs.cx/img65/7884/shipmentprocessingweldable3vb.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Datacore</b></u></span>
I like the fact that the water has to be drained from the weldable at 'Sublevel Control', which is a suitable name. I don't think 'Datacore' is a suitable name for that hive as there are no computers or high-tech machines to be seen. I think you should alter the name to something that has to do with draining away the water with the big pipes that are present in that hive.
I would also suggest to change the level of the water (because I think that relocating to a hive should allways be an option even if this hive is far away there can be a situation where such a reloc is needed. For instance when the base gets raped). My first idea was to make the water come as high and as far as the white line. But then I came up with another idea: change the gradient of the ramp so that the waterlevel will come up to where the red line is:
<img src='http://img134.exs.cx/img134/4599/datacorehivewaterlimit1ao.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The reason of my second idea is simple: it would encourage to first weld the weldable at 'Sublevel Control' in order to place the turret factory more strategically:
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/1177/datacorehivetf2ew.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
One thing I noticed (but which is just a minor issue) is that before the water is welded away there is water everywhere in the hive:
<img src='http://img65.exs.cx/img65/8900/datacorehivewater4va.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This spot in the hive is very difficult to reach. I know you can compare it to a vent, but I was wondering if it's not better:
-> to add a second ladder (the ladder that is indicated in white is an existing ladder but doesn't make it possible to reach that spot indicated in red) or another way to make it reachable (for instance when there is a sensory chamber over there)
-> or to add a vent so that you can access that spot
<img src='http://img217.exs.cx/img217/2220/datacorehiveunaccesebleroombis.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'>-> <u><b>Coolant Exchange</b></u></span>
When this hive is locked down, this hive is a dead trap for onos who try to take it out (depending of course where you lock it down), but for fades it's not that bad. As you can see in the image I posted you can build up there, once you've secured it there, don't count on an ono to take it out. It's fades work or at two hives the gorge can come in to bilebom.
Can you tell me why you made the area that I indicated in red a 'no build zone', as structures (besides the resource tower) cannot be build there.
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/8364/coolantexchangehive8vy.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I think you should change this area. It might be good to make the ladder higher (first I thought to move it to where the red arrow points). But what is more important: you should make it possible (with a ledge?) to go up to where the marine is. This would allow the possible ono to hit and run the locked-down hive.
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/7157/coolantexchangehiveladder8fp.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This map is a piece of art. It's a pitty you have to touch a piece of art to make it more playable ^^ .
These were just my thoughts, I don't claim to know the truth. But I am convinced that the more information you get the better you will know what to do with your map. I have more information to share later on, but now it's bedtime as I have to wake up early tomorrow.
I hope this info was usefull.
Greetz,
XtOf
Thanks to <a href='http://imageshack.us/' target='_blank'>imageshack</a> for hosting the pictures.
I am trying to join your server. I have just downloaded the bsp but half-life crashes out with the 'cant open ns_shiva.wad' error. Please can you sort that out as i want to play this map!!!!
[EDIT]Just realised that the download from the server didn't include the wad file. I'll have to download your map by other means. Just letting you know.[/EDIT]
.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THANKYOU! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
that's a great help. I'll look into all of that. Some of those are already fixed.
I can't thank you enough. That's extremely helpful.
Edit: My reasoning for the water was just as you said, it prevents relocating. Because that hive is really large, and there is a double node nearby (and games in which the middle hive is locked down tend to be very drawn out and boring) I wanted the marines to really have to work to relocate there.
.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THANKYOU! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
that's a great help. I'll look into all of that. Some of those are already fixed.
I can't thank you enough. That's extremely helpful.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad my 'little' contribution has helped you with the 'huge' work you have put into this map. In my experience it is often easier for an outsider to give a fresh opinion on something a person has been working on for a long time.
<u>So what is on the menu today? Well, let's talk about the <b><span style='color:green'>elevators</span></b></u>:
The locations where the elevators are situated is just fine. The amount of elevators - four in total - is good, and they work (almost -> see Ono stuck isue later on) perfect when being in-the-field as a marine or as an alien.
The thing I want to address is the control the commander has over the elevators. In my opinion (and not only mine) the commander should have control over the elevators (as he is logged into the system) and being able to make elevators go up and down is as such part of the game and the gameplay.
<u>There are (or at least there should be) two ways to move the elevators:</u>
1) by clicking on the switches
2) by clicking on the elevator itself
From the commander point-of-view I think <b>it is important that he can move the elevators by (2) clicking on the elevator itself</b> and it is <u>less important</u> that he is able to do that by (1) clicking on the switches (this for the evident reason that the surface of the elevator is bigger then the switches). Speaking about switches, I was wondering if you could make them a bit bigger as they are sometimes difficult to spot (but that's perhaps just so the first time you play the map, after a while you know where they are).
<u>Here are the results of <b>my</b> test (I give you the location where the elevator is situated)</u>:
<span style='color:red'>red</span> = bad
<b>bold</b> = good
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Cryochambers</b></u></span>
<ul>
</li><li>Elevator is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Upper switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Lower switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <b>dammage</b>
</li></ul>
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Shiva Core (<i>near </i>double)</b></u></span>
<ul>
</li><li>Elevator is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Upper switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Lower switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <span style='color:red'>no dammage</span>
</li></ul>
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Left</i></b></u></span>
<ul>
</li><li>Elevator <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Upper switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Lower switch <b>is clickable</b>
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <b>dammage</b>
</li></ul>
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Right</i></b></u></span>
<ul>
</li><li>Elevator is <b>clickable</b> <span style='color:red'>at a certain angle</span> -> if you move from a top down view to the right, then at a certain angle you can activate it
</li><li>Upper switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Lower switch is <span style='color:red'>not</span> clickable
</li><li>Structures built under elevator takes <b>dammage</b>
</li></ul>
I think the best thing to do is to make it unable to build structures under elevators, it would mainly hinder the gameplay. I'm not a mapper myself (I've tried it but I suck at it), and know very little about hammer and how to make ns_maps with it, so I don't know whether making it unable to build is an issue:
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Cryochambers</b></u></span>
The structure takes dammage, but it can block an ono (and the cute gorgie) from going up. If you can't make the surfaces under the elevators unbuildable (which I doubt, unless it's a clipnode issue, which I also don't know.). If there is no workaround I suggest you increase the dammage the elevator(s) brings to the structures, so that the structure dissapears instantly by the first hit taken.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 15 2005, 07:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 15 2005, 07:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->98.4% clipnodes! WOOOO!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/979/cryochamberstfunderelevatorwit.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Left</i></b></u></span>
same as <span style='color:green'><u>Cryochambers</u></span>
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Maintenance Bay <i>Right</i></b></u></span>
same as <span style='color:green'><u>Cryochambers</u></span>
<span style='color:green'>=> <u><b>Shiva Core (<i>near </i>double)</b></u></span>
As mentioned above: Structures built under elevator takes <span style='color:red'>no dammage</span>.
<img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/3705/shivacoretfunderelevator2lk.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
You may argue that the ono can use the ladders (that you can see at both sides of the elevator) to go up and down, as he actually fits in there. But when for instance an Ono goes down with the elevator and there is a turret factory under it (which takes no dammage), the ono is stuck. He cannot go up and he cannot crouch through the gap you see in the next picture (in the picture the Ono is crouching).
<img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7616/shivacoreelevatorono9ye.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Another issue I encountered at <span style='color:green'><u><b>Shiva Core (<i>near </i>double)</b></u></span>:
As you can see in the next picture (which is taken from the position - with the elevator down- looking at double) it is not possible to shoot through that texture, you should be able to do that since the texture that you used oughts to make that possible.
<b>If</b> for instance double is taken by the marines the aliens cannot use certain abilities from up-there, which I think is necessary in order to take it back:
-> the skulk cannot parasite
-> the gorge cannot bilebomb
-> the lerk is not able to spore the rines
-> the fade cannot use acid-rocket
<b>If</b> for instance double is taken by the aliens, which are defending the place eventually helped by oc's:
-> the marines cannot shoot aliens or structures from there.
<img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/2189/shivacoreelevator1ai.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
As I was testing I noticed something else. I post it, because it might be usefull for you (As I said, I don't know that much about mapping or how to make them properly). I went to the other side of that texture to see if I could shoot through that texture from there, which didn't work as you can see in the red circle.
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/3394/shivacorebulletimpact0ww.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Then - rather by accident - I flew with my jetpack towards the bullet-impacts just to notice that when I went as close as you can see in the picture; the bullet-impact had dissapeared. Perhaps this is a sign of what might be wrong with how you handled the placement of that texture.
I was wondering if perhaps it isn't better to remove that texture alltogether. The decision is up to you:
-> <u>On one hand</u> keeping that texture <b>slows down both races</b> from going through and forces them to use the elevator or the ladder as it is there for a purpose (both the elevator and the texture)!!
-> But - <u>on the other hand</u> - taking that texture away would allow :
- <b>the aliens</b> (the skulk to move faster in both directions, the gorge to jump down faster, the lerk to fly through in both directions, the fade to hit and run in both directions, and the Ono to jump down) to move faster too. And it would be easier for the gorge to build oc's (chambers in general) there as he doesn't have to egg on that platform.
- As for <b>the marines</b>: they can jump down the elevator, and when they have jetpacks it is a time-saver in both directions. But I have to admit that when the marines are moving in a Heavy-Armor train, it is better for them to stick together and - as such - to use the elevator.
I'm just giving you food for thought.
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/9233/shivacorebulletimpactgone2lg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I noticed that you can build up there (this is the platform between the elevator and double, the place I mentioned where the gorges would easily build oc's to cover up double), it's up to you to see whether you should get rid of that. Look three pictures bellow from here to see a top-down view and the neutral spectator/reader will better understand what I mean (as I think you don't want stuff to be built there by the marines-team).
<img src='http://img235.exs.cx/img235/673/shivacorebuildable9ge.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I noticed a bug: I had put the phasegate there (with sv_cheats 1, and bigdig -> builds structures automatically), I phased through and wanted to weld the weldable (to get access to the second node at 'double'), only to notice it didn't work (probably because the phase gate is in the way). The solution is - I think - to put the weldable higher.
<img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1562/shivacoredoubleweldbug4hs.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I came up with this 'crazy' idea, starting from the fact that I think that 'Shiva Core' is perhaps not open enough. Also my idea would change double more into a room and less into a corridor, because I think NolSinkler has a point.
<!--QuoteBegin-NolSinkler+Mar 28 2005, 03:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Mar 28 2005, 03:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just played this map (privately...) and it looks to me that the map is marine biased, because there isn't much room for bhopping skulks, and <b>too many corridors. I think there needs to be a few more rooms, and a few less corridors.</b> Just my opinion, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although you can debate on the fact if more openness is really necessary and suitable at the Shiva Core (which is a potential double ressnode), I will just suggest this idea (before it gets lost, not that I will forget about - what I think is - a good idea ^^):
-> The way it is now, the weldable makes the wall of the 'potential double ressnode' move into the ground.
-> Make it so that double is transformed into two pipes (make them transparent if possible, this would add to the atmosphere) - with each the size of a ressnode - coming down from the ceiling into the ressnodes (you have to imagine that the pipes go down further into the ground as a source of power, but that the ressnodes take that power out of the stations resources).
- The pipe of <b>the available ressnode</b> - that you don't have to weld - is broken (let's say for about 2/3 of the heigth and on the same place as it is open now, so that you can access it.
- Then the <b>weldable ressnode</b> at the second pipe makes it so <u>that both pipes go into the ceiling</u> => This way the second ressnode becomes available and the 'room' becomes more open. Perhaps you can make it so that once it is welded you can fit in a Turret Factory or a Phasegate between the two ressnodes. With this idea - of the pipes in mind - you could change the name from 'Shiva Core' to 'Shiva Core Power', or even bettter (or perhaps just more simple) into 'Core <b>Power</b>' ('Core Powerstation' would not be that good I think).
<img src='http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1087/shivacoredoubleidea5wn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
After this first idea for 'Shiva Core' I came up with an alternative/additional idea (depending on the way you might want to implement it as you can implement both ideas together). As it has been stated in this topic - some rooms are a bit tight - and I think that 'Shiva Core' is a bit tight for a good fight. This is the suggestion I came up with, as you can see in the next picture, enlarge the room to where the red lines come:
<img src='http://img235.exs.cx/img235/6957/shivacorebigpicturesuggestion1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
One last thing before I go to sleep: I noticed that there is no appropriate siege-spot for 'Shiva Core (double)'. One place I was thinking of and that is easy to alter is the corridor South-East of 'Shiva Core', you can make that corridor into a corner room.
Gotto sleep now,
Hope I was helpfull,
XtOf
I believe I've fixed most of the issues with the elevators interacting structures, I'll investigate where the commander can activate them. I'm thinking I'll keep the damage relatively low so that you still have time to get out if you happen to get caught underneath.
Your ideas for shiva core are fantastic. I suspect that the limiting factor on what I implement is going to be r_speeds. That room has a ton of polygons in it, and opening it up too much really shoots them through the roof. I'll see what I can do though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:red'><b><3</b></span> your feedback! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> you rock!
the new view:
<a href='http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=nsshivab2a00025yt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img49.exs.cx/img49/481/nsshivab2a00025yt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
old view of ms:
<img src='http://img70.exs.cx/img70/7794/marinestarttdv9ox.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot.
i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room.
i show:
the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms.
blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms.
the grreen line is where the textures could look complete and interconect.
<a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00035cn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/6784/nsshivab2a00035cn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
i show up here the drill shaft the red dot where i fall with my oni and stay lock inside with out lader or elevator, maybe a clip brush covering or steam pusing u up, or some kind of fence around it would protect the charging onos.
<a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a0005b2xv.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8600/nsshivab2a0005b2xv.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here the ladder going up in cryo chambers or a ladder and a second elevator that second could be broke a 1/3 of the way up.
<a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00057vz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/310/nsshivab2a00057vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive
<a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.
could add thsi vent in that hive to near hallway for gorges bile pg near hive and make a back door for alien escape or a new way to arrive by jet pack to hive.
<a href='http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=nsshivab2a00122ht.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img32.exs.cx/img32/2950/nsshivab2a00122ht.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
this vent could lead be up in this point and change this peace of detail in a siege room.
<a href='http://img110.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img110&image=nsshivab2a00136mp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img110.exs.cx/img110/1406/nsshivab2a00136mp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a00140pq.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/5760/nsshivab2a00140pq.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here a nice feature relocate the door at red line to where the arrow indicate and make walls in the blue lines so u have a siege room inside of a hive and nice break of the double acess bye the doors.
Thanks a lot m<b><u>o</u></b>ultano, I do the best I can to help you out.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I believe I've fixed most of the issues with the elevators interacting structures, I'll investigate where the commander can activate them. I'm thinking I'll keep the damage relatively low so that you still have time to get out if you happen to get caught underneath.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-> I think it is <u>fine to keep the dammage relatively low</u> in order to not kill marines and aliens when they are under an elevator. But I encountered a situation at one elevator, where I was under the elevator and I made the elevator go down. The problem was that the elevator went down and I got stuck because the elevator didn't go up again <u>automatically</u> (I'll post a picture of that later)! I'll examine that with all the elevators.
-> Besides keeping the dammage relatively low, I think it is necessary to <u>make the zone under the elevator a no-build zone</u>. Can you give me any confirmation on that?
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Your ideas for shiva core are <b>fantastic</b>. I suspect that the limiting factor on what I implement is going to be r_speeds. That room has a ton of polygons in it, and opening it up too much really shoots them through the roof. I'll see what I can do though.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks a lot for appreciating my idea.
It was exactly my thought that the r_speeds can cause a problem and be the limiting factor. Aren't the r_speeds are influenced by the polygons <u>and</u> by what you can see from your point of view? If the later is true, I'm sure you can work things out at 'Shiva Core' by replacing some stuff (adding walls to block the line of sight). Can you please give me confirmation whether the amount of what you can see influences the r_speeds (I did a search but couldn't come up with any usefull results). If that is the case I can perhaps give you my thoughts on changing some stuff over there.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Mar 30 2005, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:red'><b><3</b></span> your feedback! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> you rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks again mate, but what does <3 mean?
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 30 2005, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 30 2005, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->moultano, dispite the fact that he spelled your name wrong, If you don't include XtoF in your map credits I will hunt you down and kill you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol swiftspear, you actually make me feel good about myself. By the way it's not XtoF but Xtof or XtOf <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
the new view:
<a href='http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=nsshivab2a00025yt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img49.exs.cx/img49/481/nsshivab2a00025yt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot.
i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room.
i show:
the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms.
blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms.
the grreen line is where the textures could look complete and interconect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carioca, isn't that the old marine start in that picture instead of the new one?
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00035cn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/6784/nsshivab2a00035cn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
i show up here the drill shaft the red dot where i fall with my oni and stay lock inside with out lader or elevator, maybe a clip brush covering or steam pusing u up, or some kind of fence around it would protect the charging onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
M<u><b>o</b></u>ultano: What you want to do with the 'Draft Shafts'?
-> Make it so that when you fall into it you die ?
-> Make a ladder into the shaft?
-> Or a combination of both (I'll add a picture later to try to show my concept)?
<span style='color:red'>WARNING!</span> you are about to read a very stupid question: do ladders eat up clipnodes (I really have no idea about that)?
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a0005b2xv.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/8600/nsshivab2a0005b2xv.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here the ladder going up in cryo chambers or a ladder and a second elevator that second could be broke a 1/3 of the way up.
<a href='http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=nsshivab2a00057vz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img42.exs.cx/img42/310/nsshivab2a00057vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that idea is worth implementing, that one elevator should be more then enough and that ladder is not necessary. I have another idea to change parts of that area and will post that later on.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive
<a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'>
<img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that there needs to be a vent/connection between Database Transmission and Airlock. But I think that your vent is to 'straight' (In my opinion, the lower alien-lifeforms would be able to go to fast from Datacore to Airlock) and I see another option (which I will post later on, and which suits the 'feel' of the map better). Carioca, I hope you are aware that <u>there is a vent</u> leading from Airlock to where the elevator is beneath Cryochambers!
<u>To ALL the readers: there are vents, but you have to FIND THEM !!</u> (I'm not saying that there are enough vents, but the vents that are present in the map at the moment are leet!!).
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
could add thsi vent in that hive to near hallway for gorges bile pg near hive and make a back door for alien escape or a new way to arrive by jet pack to hive.
<a href='http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=nsshivab2a00122ht.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img32.exs.cx/img32/2950/nsshivab2a00122ht.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
this vent could lead be up in this point and change this peace of detail in a siege room.
<a href='http://img110.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img110&image=nsshivab2a00136mp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img110.exs.cx/img110/1406/nsshivab2a00136mp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion this is a good idea, I will look into it myself, but it seems to be good !!
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<a href='http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=nsshivab2a00140pq.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img40.exs.cx/img40/5760/nsshivab2a00140pq.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here a nice feature relocate the door at red line to where the arrow indicate and make walls in the blue lines so u have a siege room inside of a hive and nice break of the double acess bye the doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carioca (are you from France, because sometimes it is very hard to understand what you mean). I agree that (to my knowledge, as I haven't really tested it) Airlock and Datacore are not easy to siege.
Could you please clarify more the way you see it, because the way it is now <u>those doors are weldable, and once welded they close</u>. So how would you do it? I for instance, and in your example, would make it so that (considering we keep the doors weldable) the door (once they are welded) the most far from the hive would open completly and the door closest to the hive would close completly. This would make it easy to siege. However, in this situation the aliens can only/mainly protect and attack the marines from the left entrance/exit of Airlock, which in my opinion would not be enough. I will look into that too.
Greetz,
<b>XtOf</b>
the new vent i sugest because the exist ones are dam slow and hide so i see this issue better in a dead area like that corner.
the hive could be out of that double door and weld stuff i will be happy if u make that door details of the wall instead of a siege room.
xtof im not french, i m brasilian so i speak portuguese not english that languague i try speak but i'm not good in it.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Xtof+Mar 30 2005, 02:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xtof @ Mar 30 2005, 02:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
the new view:
<a href='http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=nsshivab2a00025yt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img49.exs.cx/img49/481/nsshivab2a00025yt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the ms plz remake that floor look terrible could u make the lower corridor of the ms look like the up parti soon will post a screen shoot.
i dunno but one place u walk in a lower hallway beaneath a room where have a elevator you could add lader or broken elevator to give some cover or turn more acessable the up room.
i show:
the red arrow indicate the new controls place, and the red line the new width of the pass around the pipe ms.
blue arrow indicate the new place of res node of ms.
the green line is where the textures could look complete and interconect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carioca, isn't that the old marine start in that picture instead of the new one?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> xtof i dont mistake the images i show up your image of ms to show how is now and how i wanna change i edit the image including textures in the floor and put lines to show up what i change in the image.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u>Can you please (please) explain the logic behind what you say, it would help us all a lot, as to WHY you want to change it THAT way</u>.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 30 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
could you add this vent in the ceiling betwen thsi flat corner and the air lock hive
<a href='http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=nsshivab2a00063vz.jpg' target='_blank'>
<img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/632/nsshivab2a00063vz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the air hive with only 2 exits could be better with a back vent in one of that vent corner or make less open the hive, maybe a railing in the ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that there needs to be a vent/connection between Database Transmission and Airlock. But I think that your vent is to 'straight' (In my opinion, the lower alien-lifeforms would be able to go to fast from Datacore to Airlock) and I see another option (which I will post later on, and which suits the 'feel' of the map better). Carioca, I hope you are aware that <u>there is a vent</u> leading from Airlock to where the elevator is beneath Cryochambers!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
the new vent i sugest because the exist ones are dam slow and hide so i see this issue better in a dead area like that corner.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>EDIT:</span>
This is a CONCEPT I came up with and I would like to know people's opinion:
About the <b><span style='color:green'>hive</span></b>:
1) Do you think a change is needed at Airlock Hive? Yes or No and most importantly WHY you think Yes or No (I can't read your minds, I'm planning to learn it but at the moment I just can't).
2) If Yes and you look at the next picture (my reason for making that change is to make Airlokc easier <u>to siege</u> AND to make it easier for aliens <u>to hit and run</u>, so that they can take back the 'locked down hive'):
- do you think it is good to take away the the right entrance (as in the picture) <u>or</u> would you keep it so that there are THREE entrances to the hive?
- if you don't agree to the suggested change then WHAT is your proposal? Change it or keep it the way it is?
About the <b><span style='color:blue'>vent</span></b>:
1) Do you think it is a good addition? Yes or no and please explain.
<img src='http://img38.exs.cx/img38/4954/airlockproposal0ty.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This is HOW it could look from inside 'Airlock Hive' with the change that I suggested:
<img src='http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7906/airlockhivenewentrance4vq.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>END EDIT</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
the hive could be out of that double door and weld stuff i will be happy if u make that door details of the wall instead of a siege room.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No comprende mate, I don't understand what you are saying.
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Mar 31 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
xtof im not french, i m brasilian so i speak portuguese not english that languague i try speak but i'm not good in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well good luck with practicing your english.
Greetz,
XtOf