Ns_shiva

moultano · April 2005

the cords now run between the ceiling pips and the supports. I took out the other terminals, cause they really sucked the life out of the playability of the room.

carioca · April 2005

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
the new marine start reminds me the ayumi pressure control hive without vents.

you could include the old ms at some part of the map strong recomend between cafeteria and crio chambers or at the hallway near the data core.

Foxtrot_Uniform · April 2005

or behind some glass so you can just see it and wish you could play around in it.

Boris · April 2005

Is the 2nd comm chair comming back? That's the one single most admired feature of this map when I introduced it on my server with shivab1.

*CHANTS: "Bring back the 2nd comm chair!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' />

moultano · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Apr 26 2005, 12:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Is the 2nd comm chair comming back? That's the one single most admired feature of this map when I introduced it on my server with shivab1.

*CHANTS: "Bring back the 2nd comm chair!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If you can come up with a way to make the chair unrecyclable until the area is welded open, then I will immediately bring it back . . .

Unfortunately, that second chair was just free res for marines.<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />
I liked it too.

Decimator · April 2005

Would it be possible to make the chair drop from above the commander's height when the area is welded? Or perhaps a large elevator so it descends into view?

carioca · April 2005

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
func_see_ trough alpha for comander 0 so the comander cant see this second comand chair and they cant click and have to weld to clik or see or you make a more se trough out of the chair so comander never will clickand recicle.

Boris · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ Apr 26 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
func_see_ trough alpha for comander 0 so the comander cant see this second comand chair and they cant click and have to weld to clik or see or you make a more se trough out of the chair so comander never will clickand recicle. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If this works, or there is just a way to basically disable the command from clicking the command chair by blocking the view or something, I would love to see the chair back!

If anyone else has some tricks on how to make a building not-clickable by the commander, please post it here, so moultano can put that auxilary command back in! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Would it be possible to make the chair drop from above the commander's height when the area is welded? Or perhaps a large elevator so it descends into view? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
That's an interesting idea...maybe a really quick elevator so the player doesn't really see it come down, it's just THERE.

moultano · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Decimator @ Apr 26 2005, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Would it be possible to make the chair drop from above the commander's height when the area is welded? Or perhaps a large elevator so it descends into view?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That might work, but then you have the problem of a large obstruction to the commanders view when he's anywhere in the area.

In other news, here's the new cc enclosure.

<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rmoulton/cc.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

MrBen · April 2005

Enclosures are never a good thing, the commander getting out of that chair to defend base is in a world of ****.

moultano · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Apr 26 2005, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Enclosures are never a good thing, the commander getting out of that chair to defend base is in a world of ****.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yeah I got pretty reamed on the CAL forums for the previous cc placement. I posted this same thing over on those forums, and I'll see if people think its exposed enough.

carioca · April 2005

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
if you build a tall elevator more than comander view somethin at 1000 units tall the comand cant see just the elvator pitch when you weld taht will pass trough the comander height, but you have to palce some hint/skip brushes to save the world polies of that tall elevator..

moultano · April 2005

It would still get in the way. It would be a big black shape obscuring anything behind it.
I'm thinking that drag select might also be able to get it.

carioca · April 2005

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /> make so depth you cant click.
make a abyssys elevator coming the comand module from the hell of the limits of hl1 engine like 1500 units deep so the elvator coming up and they dont block the map view ^^.
or jsut hide the comchair beneath the floor and then after welding they pop up.
or jsut make a room beneath where we hdie trhe chair and then they move in the horizont line to going up.

Viper_two_nine_A · April 2005

moultano do you have any idea when the next release will be ready?

(i would like to put out another update on shiva on the news site <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /> )

Crispy · April 2005

Thinking back to Quake, I wonder if you could teleport the CC into place.

Quake's spawning monsters often just consisted of rooms off to one side of the map which teleported their contents into the map when triggered by the player. I'm wondering if the CC is the sort of entitity which can be teleported, or not.

If it did work, the problem would be that you'd see the CC teleporting in, which wouldn't be that authentic. If you could have a Holo display of a CC, and could teleport the working CC to almost the exact same position, then it might look OK.

+++

A different way would be the func_door that pushes the CC up from a pit. If you covered the pit with a doubledoor it would look pretty kickass. Throw in some steam as the CC rises and you have a relentlessly entityhogging set piece!

moultano · April 2005

Alright, I think I've gotten just about everything.

Beta 4 release this weekend.

At the moment I still have some r_speed issues in places and two vis errors. I also haven't changed the area east of airlock yet. However, I think this new version is worlds better than the previous. As soon as I get a change to package everything up, assuming there are no glaring errors, I'll send it out.

moultano · April 2005

ns_shivab4 release

- Completely rebuilt Marine Start. (Much more defensible now)
- Enlarged most egregious hallways substantially. (Still some work to be done)
- Fixed many stuck issues and exploitative structure placement areas. (Coolant is much easier to walk around.)
- Fixed inability to place coolant hive (not sure about this one, but I think I did.)
- Consolidated and removed siege locations for coolant.
- Enlarged siege location for datacore, and added a vent to it.
- Added a vent between draft shafts and maintenance.
- Moved chemical storage node to the center of the room.
- Shortened tracks in maintenance.
- Fixed most problem r_speed areas.
- Tweaked many visuals. (Lighting is better now and check out shiva core particle system.)

Still to do:
- Rework connection between airlock and cryochambers
- find and fix the two remaining vis errors.
- work on r_speeds between cryochambers and sublevel control.

Many many many thanks to everyone who playtested my map, everyone who put up with it in the CAL preseason, and everyone who took the time to give feedback. Hope you enjoy the new version. As always, drown me in feedback. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

<a href='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ns_shivab4.zip' target='_blank'>Download</a>

<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ms2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Xtof · April 2005

Hi moultano,

It's been a while, real life got in the way. The download link is <span style='color:red'>dead</span> mate, and I am so eager to see the result of the changes.

EDIT: well now it's suddenly working (I tried it 10 times the other time), perhaps it has to do with the fact that you just uploaded it or something.
END EDIT

CU
Christophe

moultano · April 2005

fixed.

Viper_two_nine_A · April 2005

ok news on the german page is up ... ill go to sleep an then update the english one ..

carioca · April 2005

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />
moultano i have new ideas for details in your map.

firt include a cook machine at mess hall.
turn the behind hallway in mess hall a foodstorage(that midle joint hallways room could be nice turn that flat in a food storage).

the airlock hive remove slopes acess in trade of a be cool placed deck/catwalk 'U' conecting both door in a 'U' systen plus include a rail in it and place docking controls in that. the middle airlock doors must be open and remove that welder point. so thsi will make a massive runing out airlock.
if you dont wanana or the r_speeds is toohigh dont open midle door but palce ladders in the edge of the new catwalk/deck "U".

aling the strips at the draf shaft ladders with that texture bend texture hex stuff.

include pipes behind res node at data core or include a computer.

cables dressing light isnt good or relocate to conect to wall or remove at ms.

all elevator are too much fast cut off marines or onos head.

Foxtrot_Uniform · April 2005

like those ideas.

moultano get someoen to run your map 24/7.

JazzX · May 2005

First, some much deserved praise:

I really like the changes you made to the Marine Start in this version, r_speeds are much much lower, its easier to navigate, and it doesn't feel as cramped as before.

Glad to see there are now ladders to crawl out of the pits in Draft Shafts, for those of us who can't resist falling into them once in a while...

Additionally I don't see how you did it, but the r_speeds in both Airlock and Datacore hives are MUCH improved, from unacceptably high levels, down to something quite managable, excellent work there.

Now my concerns:

I'm still not sold on the water in Datacore hive or on the weldable which controls it. I do like the fact that the panel near the weldable now explains what is going on, but I'm not sure even that is going to make it all that obvious to people playing the map for the first time. Water makes a Marine's life difficult, and gives Commanders headaches because it makes dropping meds and ammo incredibly difficult. My feeling is with the water up (weldable still intact) the hive is going to be impenetrable unless the marines get up top and spawn camp (see below), while they shotgun it down. However if the Marines lower the water they are probably going to have an extremely easy time sieging down the hive, by placing a TF in Databurst Transmission, a very long and straight hallway which the Aliens have no easy access to. Placing a vent there, similar to the new Datacore -> Tunnel vent, might do the trick but it could also just as easily make the hive completely unsiegable, regardless of the state of the water.

When I saw the "new" default water level in Datacore I decided to check the info_team_starts in that hive because spawning into water is a campable death trap, but what I found is probably worse. Having them all clumped up like that in two groups is just begging the marines to get a player on either side and just blow away anything that spawns in, and the Aliens would have absolutely no chance to escape. Additionally you can easily cover all those spawns with mines, because they are extremely predictable.

Aside from Datacore my other really large concern is (and has always been) the Double Node. I'll preface this by saying I don't like nodes behind weldables in general, because of the level of control it gives the Marines over it. I think ns_lost went from an average map to one of the absolute best maps in the game when it removed its weldable node and gave the marines Beta Deck in its place (and in the place of Los Paranois). The fact that you placed that trigger_hurt to kill nodes that were dropped before welding just compounds the issue, as now that node is completely, 100% in the control of the Marines. They get ultimate authority over the status of that node, and I'm not happy about that for a whole variety of reasons.

I think the solution is just to remove that node and weldable entirely, and make Shiva Core a single node. You don't need the node (even without it you have 10 nodes on the map) and without it your res distribution has a node close to each hive, and 3 others which are closer to the Marine Start, and that's a really good setup in my opinion. I think having Shiva Core as a double node just makes the Marines setup a base there (either via relocation, or by Phase Gate + Turrets) and while it isn't a choke point between Airlock and Datacore, it does place them a little to close for comfort. I know you stated that one of the reasons that Datacore has water, and the double needs to be welded was to prevent Marines from relocating there everytime, but I think just getting rid of that node removes that problem completely.

Overall though I like this new version, and I look forward to playing some real games on it again.

Crispy · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JazzX @ May 4 2005, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm still not sold on the water in Datacore hive or on the weldable which controls it. I do like the fact that the panel near the weldable now explains what is going on, but I'm not sure even that is going to make it all that obvious to people playing the map for the first time.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The great thing about playing Marines for the first time vs. Aliens, is that you have a Commander. People who go commander usually have a good knowledge of the map (even if they've never Commed on it before) prior to gettin in the CC, so I don't see this as a problem.

The other bits do make a lot of sense, but I'd hate to lose the water in that Hive, if you could fiddle the spawn points a bit maybe that would make it more acceptable.

Lt_Gravity · May 2005

had a 75 minutes game on shiva yesterday. and her we go:

- I like the idea of welding a certain point to drop the water in one of the hives (sorry forgot the name) BUT this weldable should be closer to the hive. right now the distancefrom the ms to this weldpoint is too short!

pics:
<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
NONONONO that fan-texture just looks plain wrong!

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
so... the elevator should stop here cause of "collision". you know what to do.

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
EXTREMELY dangerous place. even took some trys to get out as jp.

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
erm... no further questions <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
if you look from the ceiling right in the hive direction, we have a beautiful vis error here. there was another one I found but I didnt made a screenshot so I forgot where it was <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva6.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
and what do we have here? yes, its a turret. the commander is able to place buildings underneath the floor. you should add a func_nobuild between the floor and the glass.

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
not even jumping lets you ascent this bevel. the other trims in the hive have different slopes so you can just walk up. the broken grate on the floor is also a pain.

<img src='http://mitglied.lycos.de/centercross/bilder/shiva8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
didnt checked in b4 but you cant shoot through this func_wall. func_illusionary, a clipbrush and Im happy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

a last word:
I hardly could make out the changes but the ms is still to small in my eyes. all necessary marine buildings use up the complete space. all after all a fantastic map, we had a lot of fun.

JazzX · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ May 4 2005, 06:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The great thing about playing Marines for the first time vs. Aliens, is that you have a Commander. People who go commander usually have a good knowledge of the map (even if they've never Commed on it before) prior to gettin in the CC, so I don't see this as a problem.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Do you remember how incredibly long it took people to find out about the "hidden" res node on the 1.0 version of ns_caged? Granted there was no popupmap at that point (and the upper-right corner minimap was totally useless). Like two weeks after 3.0 Final was released I was on a server and no-one knew how to open the Phasegates on the new version of Daimos (this was a combat-only server, that was only running official maps) and there is a <u>gigantic holographic picture of a Welder</u> above the weldable there. This strikes me as far more cryptic then Daimos'.

Sirus · June 2005

The only problem with removing the water is that it removes a very unique characteristic of the map. I haven't had a chance to play, honestly, I dont hang around the mapping forum often, but it's very unique and adds flavor to the map. Try your best to balance it, but it's a great idea. Try and keep it.

Viper_two_nine_A · June 2005

found an error in datacore hive yesterday:
when coming from the hive taking the right exit, there is a chamfer plunging down ~ 70°.
when trying to gestate there you will be killed ~1 sec after you changed to an egg

Viper_two_nine_A · June 2005

from the other side ..

Ns_shiva

Comments