Unofficial Public Service Announcement Re. Cheat
esuna
Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
<i>Foreword:
This topic was originally posted, by myself, back in April, it was eventually locked due to petty squabbling, bitching and going entirely off topic. When it was locked by Nemesis Zero i instantly PM'd him asking if i can reopen, he said yes, so this thread is back again, for your edutainment.
Anyhow, can we keep the spam, flames and such elsewhere, this is not the place, this thread has been locked once and i do not want it locked again. You can read the original thread <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68650&hl=unofficial+public' target='_blank'>here</a>, it mostly contains the same information but a) not as nicely laid out and b) it's locked leaving no room for discussion.</i> Each of these videos (Barring Speedhack) was recorded in a closed environment with full consent of all players.
<b><span style='color:white'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Unofficial PSA RE: Cheats</span></span></b>
<span style='color:white'>Last updated 20/07/04</span>
I've been playing NS for well over a year now, and have been playing FPS games online since long before most people. There's nothing more annoying than spending your free time playing a game online only to have some muppet ruin it by hacking. But there is one thing that comes close, in my mind, and that's liberally throwing around "hackusations" at players that are most likely just better than you are. Personally, i have only been banned from one server for "hacking" and in my time i've had a small handful of complaints and "hackusations" thrown my way for how i'm playing. It's quite funny really, seeing that i'm not all that good at NS. But anyway, most people say "take it as a compliment", which i do from time to time, but it's really annoying to have people saying "bs" to every kill and hurling insults at you just because you're playing better.
So anyway, it dawned on my some time ago that a lot of people don't even know what it looks like when people are hacking, let alone seen them first hand, so i set out on my mission to record .avi's of actual hacks in action to hopefully educate a few people as to what hacks look like so the next time they're spectating a "hacker" they know what to look for and have a better idea as to whether the accused player is hacking. I say better idea since it can never be 100% proven without being there.
Anyway. Each of these videos is encoded with the XviD codec, if you are having trouble playing them, plaese google XviD and update your codec. The only modifications made to these videos is resizing, and occasionally i have masked names of accused players, for the sake of not starting a flame war.
Also, please note that i've only tried a small handful of cheats out there, but i have tried all the 'big name' cheats, but variations of each cheat are out there, and some have features that others do not.
Nomble has a database of cheat videos which you can download from <a href='http://nombliz.no-ip.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php' target='_blank'>here</a>. Beware though, some of the videos are very big. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Without further ado, onto the videos.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Aimbot</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/aimbot.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Aimbots come in many different flavours, and is usually the first thing that comes to mind when you get killed 10 times in a row from half a mile away in 1 shot. We all know what they do, they can quite easily turn the crappest of aims into a dead-eye shot. This video shows the "I'm a complete noob with an aimbot" look. I've not spent any time tweaking this aimbot, it snaps straight to the enemy and has misconfigured vecs, i know this much, recording a better demo is on my to-do list.
Anyway. Aimbots can be configured in many ways. They can 'snap' to a target if it enters your view cone, or, if you like, whenever the enemy sees you. It can be configured to track players through walls or not. You can also configure a type of lag to it. What happens is every shot you fire is perfect, but your view moves extremely smoothly and lags behind the target, making it a lot harder to detect through spectator mode, and if confronted with it, the accused can claim lag. This video doesn't, however, show any of those pretty effects, it's a crap aimbot, i wouldn't recommend watching it if you've seen an aimbot before.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Wallhack</span></b> [ videos <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/lambertwallhack.zip' target='_blank'>1</a> <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/wallhack2.zip' target='_blank'>2</a> ]
Wallhack is another one of those cheats that everyone seems to know, and loves to throw in the face of other players. In very simple terms, a wallhack lets you see through walls. And that's it. Simple concept and very effective. The first video shows a basic wallhack in action and also fullbright models, which i will talk about in a later section. The second video is another display of what it is capable of with other players. I know i'm a bad shot, you try shooting a skulk at 4fps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Speedhack</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/speedhack1.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
A speedhack is probably the most obvious cheat there is. Speedhacks basically allow you to do each of your actions many times faster, be it running, jumping or attacking. Most speedhacks have a timer on them so they can be only used every so often, i don't know exactly how they work, but they do. Speedhacks can also be 'excused' by saying that the user is laggy as it does appear that the user spikes for a few seconds, but usually it's so blatant it's impossible to excuse.
This video was not recorded by myself, i merely captured the .avi and censored the names. The demo is titled "cheater***speedhack.dem" and was posted by someone named Tom on these forums. I can't take credit for capturing the original demo.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> ESP</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/esp.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Next up is ESP, extra-sensory-perception. In my opinion the least obvious and most useful cheat there is out there. ESP can do a great deal of things including showing each player's health, armour, ammo, current weapon, if they're reloading, which way they're facing and many more things. It also causes all of your enemies to glow. As you can see from the video, it makes a huge difference without being at all detectable except by the likes of VAC and C-D. It might not give you extra "skill", but it'll tell you which enemy to attack first and when to attack, something that can be crucial in a battle.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Miscellaneous Tweaks</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/wfwwfb.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Ok, here's just a few miscellaneous visual hacks out there. This video shows the wireframe, white walls and fullbright modes. They can be toggled on and off easily, as you can see. Not much more to them.
This video is different to the rest, however for two reasons. First i had to record it under CS because for some reason it wouldn't run with NS. I've had it working under NS before, but for some reason it won't let me today. Oh well, the effect is exactly the same. The other thing that's different is that i had to overlay a mask to cover up the hack name. I don't want to edit any of these videos, but since i'm not allowed to name hacks here (for good reason) i've added a mask to cover it. Rest assured this is the only modification i've made to these .avis, other than resizing and compressing them.
Other cheats available are the likes of fullbright models (As showin in the first wallhack video), different crosshairs, a radar, and many other little things.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Anti-cheat Measures</span></b>
I guess i kinda forgot to add this section in the first rewrite. Anyway, anti-cheat. The big name anti-cheat measures out there for HL at present are Cheating-Death and VAC. Currently NS isn't VAC supported, but with the finalisation of 3.0, i'm pretty sure we'll see full VAC support, but i guess only time will tell for that one. C-D is currently optional, what it is is a small client hook, much like how cheats 'latch onto' HL, CD makes sure everything from client - server is kosher, if you will, whereas VAC is mostly serverside, but there is some client information in Steam, i believe, another one of Steam's finer points. As it stands, it takes very little time for a cheat to be picked up by CD or VAC, a lot quicker than a lot of people give them credit for, and anti-cheat works. Sure cheats find a way around them, but that only ever lasts a week or so. To quote 'Joolz', creator of two of the biggest all time cheats for HL, in a interview with PC Zone (UK PC mag): <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>PCZ:</b> If CD was adopted universally across all HL servers, hen it would kill Half-Life cheats?
<b>Joolz:</b> It would effectively, yes.
<b>PCZ:</b> There's no way to bypass CD?
<b>Joolz:</b> No. Not really. Not that's worthwhile.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->As you can see, even the cheat coders feel that the anti-cheat measures, in this case CD, are effective. Hopefully one day we'll see mandatory anti-cheat in NS, probably NS, and hopefully casual cheaters will be in decline. Of course the cheat coders will keep on coding and finding new ways around cheat detection, but your average nub that downloads their skills will be in for a hard time.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Found A Cheater?</span></b>
Well, i feel i should say a little word about what to do if you <i>think</i> you've found a cheater.
First and foremost do <b>not</b> scream "OMG U HACKAR!!11" or similar, because whether you're right or wrong, it can have negative effects. If you're right, they'll either disconnect, flame you, and work with the general asshattery. If you're wrong, it just bugs the hell out of the accused player, and others on the server. Instead, first thing you should do is bring down the console, type status and then condump.
Ok, now you have his SteamID. Next, get spectating, use the videos above as a reference, record a demo too as evidence and label it with a good name like nicknamedate or somesuch, this is only really so that it provides some information to the server owner.
So you think the player is an actual hacker? Once again, do not scream bloody murder at them, instead inform an admin, be this via forums, IRC, whatever. Submit the condump and the demo and let them ban the little SOB. And finally, do <b>not</b> post it on here. These forums do not tollerate complaints about hackers nor servers and your topic will be swiftly locked.
<span style='font-size:20pt;line-height:100%'><b><span style='color:white'>In closing....</span></b></span>
As you can see, there's a lot of cheats and tweaks out there, some are blatant, some are extremely subtle, i hope some of you have learned something about what cheats look like and will think twice before accusing someone about cheating. Thanks for reading.
EDIT(01/07/04): For clarification for some people who don't know. Cheats are 3rd party programs that operate outside of Half-Life. They aren't scripts, scripts manipulate the game from within the game, and adhere to the engine's "rules", a cheat can change the "rules", so to speak. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To do list:<ul><li>More Speedhack demos</li><li>Proper Aimbot</li><li>Misc other tweaks</li></ul>
This topic was originally posted, by myself, back in April, it was eventually locked due to petty squabbling, bitching and going entirely off topic. When it was locked by Nemesis Zero i instantly PM'd him asking if i can reopen, he said yes, so this thread is back again, for your edutainment.
Anyhow, can we keep the spam, flames and such elsewhere, this is not the place, this thread has been locked once and i do not want it locked again. You can read the original thread <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68650&hl=unofficial+public' target='_blank'>here</a>, it mostly contains the same information but a) not as nicely laid out and b) it's locked leaving no room for discussion.</i> Each of these videos (Barring Speedhack) was recorded in a closed environment with full consent of all players.
<b><span style='color:white'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Unofficial PSA RE: Cheats</span></span></b>
<span style='color:white'>Last updated 20/07/04</span>
I've been playing NS for well over a year now, and have been playing FPS games online since long before most people. There's nothing more annoying than spending your free time playing a game online only to have some muppet ruin it by hacking. But there is one thing that comes close, in my mind, and that's liberally throwing around "hackusations" at players that are most likely just better than you are. Personally, i have only been banned from one server for "hacking" and in my time i've had a small handful of complaints and "hackusations" thrown my way for how i'm playing. It's quite funny really, seeing that i'm not all that good at NS. But anyway, most people say "take it as a compliment", which i do from time to time, but it's really annoying to have people saying "bs" to every kill and hurling insults at you just because you're playing better.
So anyway, it dawned on my some time ago that a lot of people don't even know what it looks like when people are hacking, let alone seen them first hand, so i set out on my mission to record .avi's of actual hacks in action to hopefully educate a few people as to what hacks look like so the next time they're spectating a "hacker" they know what to look for and have a better idea as to whether the accused player is hacking. I say better idea since it can never be 100% proven without being there.
Anyway. Each of these videos is encoded with the XviD codec, if you are having trouble playing them, plaese google XviD and update your codec. The only modifications made to these videos is resizing, and occasionally i have masked names of accused players, for the sake of not starting a flame war.
Also, please note that i've only tried a small handful of cheats out there, but i have tried all the 'big name' cheats, but variations of each cheat are out there, and some have features that others do not.
Nomble has a database of cheat videos which you can download from <a href='http://nombliz.no-ip.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php' target='_blank'>here</a>. Beware though, some of the videos are very big. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Without further ado, onto the videos.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Aimbot</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/aimbot.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Aimbots come in many different flavours, and is usually the first thing that comes to mind when you get killed 10 times in a row from half a mile away in 1 shot. We all know what they do, they can quite easily turn the crappest of aims into a dead-eye shot. This video shows the "I'm a complete noob with an aimbot" look. I've not spent any time tweaking this aimbot, it snaps straight to the enemy and has misconfigured vecs, i know this much, recording a better demo is on my to-do list.
Anyway. Aimbots can be configured in many ways. They can 'snap' to a target if it enters your view cone, or, if you like, whenever the enemy sees you. It can be configured to track players through walls or not. You can also configure a type of lag to it. What happens is every shot you fire is perfect, but your view moves extremely smoothly and lags behind the target, making it a lot harder to detect through spectator mode, and if confronted with it, the accused can claim lag. This video doesn't, however, show any of those pretty effects, it's a crap aimbot, i wouldn't recommend watching it if you've seen an aimbot before.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Wallhack</span></b> [ videos <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/lambertwallhack.zip' target='_blank'>1</a> <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/wallhack2.zip' target='_blank'>2</a> ]
Wallhack is another one of those cheats that everyone seems to know, and loves to throw in the face of other players. In very simple terms, a wallhack lets you see through walls. And that's it. Simple concept and very effective. The first video shows a basic wallhack in action and also fullbright models, which i will talk about in a later section. The second video is another display of what it is capable of with other players. I know i'm a bad shot, you try shooting a skulk at 4fps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Speedhack</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/speedhack1.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
A speedhack is probably the most obvious cheat there is. Speedhacks basically allow you to do each of your actions many times faster, be it running, jumping or attacking. Most speedhacks have a timer on them so they can be only used every so often, i don't know exactly how they work, but they do. Speedhacks can also be 'excused' by saying that the user is laggy as it does appear that the user spikes for a few seconds, but usually it's so blatant it's impossible to excuse.
This video was not recorded by myself, i merely captured the .avi and censored the names. The demo is titled "cheater***speedhack.dem" and was posted by someone named Tom on these forums. I can't take credit for capturing the original demo.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> ESP</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/esp.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Next up is ESP, extra-sensory-perception. In my opinion the least obvious and most useful cheat there is out there. ESP can do a great deal of things including showing each player's health, armour, ammo, current weapon, if they're reloading, which way they're facing and many more things. It also causes all of your enemies to glow. As you can see from the video, it makes a huge difference without being at all detectable except by the likes of VAC and C-D. It might not give you extra "skill", but it'll tell you which enemy to attack first and when to attack, something that can be crucial in a battle.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Miscellaneous Tweaks</span></b> [ <a href='http://www.btinternet.com/~diesirae/misc/wfwwfb.zip' target='_blank'>video</a> ]
Ok, here's just a few miscellaneous visual hacks out there. This video shows the wireframe, white walls and fullbright modes. They can be toggled on and off easily, as you can see. Not much more to them.
This video is different to the rest, however for two reasons. First i had to record it under CS because for some reason it wouldn't run with NS. I've had it working under NS before, but for some reason it won't let me today. Oh well, the effect is exactly the same. The other thing that's different is that i had to overlay a mask to cover up the hack name. I don't want to edit any of these videos, but since i'm not allowed to name hacks here (for good reason) i've added a mask to cover it. Rest assured this is the only modification i've made to these .avis, other than resizing and compressing them.
Other cheats available are the likes of fullbright models (As showin in the first wallhack video), different crosshairs, a radar, and many other little things.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Anti-cheat Measures</span></b>
I guess i kinda forgot to add this section in the first rewrite. Anyway, anti-cheat. The big name anti-cheat measures out there for HL at present are Cheating-Death and VAC. Currently NS isn't VAC supported, but with the finalisation of 3.0, i'm pretty sure we'll see full VAC support, but i guess only time will tell for that one. C-D is currently optional, what it is is a small client hook, much like how cheats 'latch onto' HL, CD makes sure everything from client - server is kosher, if you will, whereas VAC is mostly serverside, but there is some client information in Steam, i believe, another one of Steam's finer points. As it stands, it takes very little time for a cheat to be picked up by CD or VAC, a lot quicker than a lot of people give them credit for, and anti-cheat works. Sure cheats find a way around them, but that only ever lasts a week or so. To quote 'Joolz', creator of two of the biggest all time cheats for HL, in a interview with PC Zone (UK PC mag): <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>PCZ:</b> If CD was adopted universally across all HL servers, hen it would kill Half-Life cheats?
<b>Joolz:</b> It would effectively, yes.
<b>PCZ:</b> There's no way to bypass CD?
<b>Joolz:</b> No. Not really. Not that's worthwhile.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->As you can see, even the cheat coders feel that the anti-cheat measures, in this case CD, are effective. Hopefully one day we'll see mandatory anti-cheat in NS, probably NS, and hopefully casual cheaters will be in decline. Of course the cheat coders will keep on coding and finding new ways around cheat detection, but your average nub that downloads their skills will be in for a hard time.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/images/misc/forumarrow.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><b><span style='color:white'> Found A Cheater?</span></b>
Well, i feel i should say a little word about what to do if you <i>think</i> you've found a cheater.
First and foremost do <b>not</b> scream "OMG U HACKAR!!11" or similar, because whether you're right or wrong, it can have negative effects. If you're right, they'll either disconnect, flame you, and work with the general asshattery. If you're wrong, it just bugs the hell out of the accused player, and others on the server. Instead, first thing you should do is bring down the console, type status and then condump.
Ok, now you have his SteamID. Next, get spectating, use the videos above as a reference, record a demo too as evidence and label it with a good name like nicknamedate or somesuch, this is only really so that it provides some information to the server owner.
So you think the player is an actual hacker? Once again, do not scream bloody murder at them, instead inform an admin, be this via forums, IRC, whatever. Submit the condump and the demo and let them ban the little SOB. And finally, do <b>not</b> post it on here. These forums do not tollerate complaints about hackers nor servers and your topic will be swiftly locked.
<span style='font-size:20pt;line-height:100%'><b><span style='color:white'>In closing....</span></b></span>
As you can see, there's a lot of cheats and tweaks out there, some are blatant, some are extremely subtle, i hope some of you have learned something about what cheats look like and will think twice before accusing someone about cheating. Thanks for reading.
EDIT(01/07/04): For clarification for some people who don't know. Cheats are 3rd party programs that operate outside of Half-Life. They aren't scripts, scripts manipulate the game from within the game, and adhere to the engine's "rules", a cheat can change the "rules", so to speak. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To do list:<ul><li>More Speedhack demos</li><li>Proper Aimbot</li><li>Misc other tweaks</li></ul>
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
are you sure they can determine health as well? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a lot of different flavours of ESP, i've only tested a few, and i know there's a few more that i haven't tried, so it's entirely possible about the box, heh.
<a href='http://www.counter-hack.net/' target='_blank'>http://www.counter-hack.net/</a>?
It's not as big of a deal as most people think. At least not in NS.
Its almost a compliment to be accused of hacking by the other team... get 3 or 4 LMG kills and its "OMG H4X BAN111!1!". Knife kills are even worse. This thread and these videos should be required reading or something...
The NS community is unbelievably paranoid when it comes to hacks, I see hackusations being tossed around nearly every game I play, but most of them are made without any evidence aside from the player playing well. <b>If you honestly think someone is hacking, spectate them for a few games while recording a demo!</b>
Realize that there are people out there who have played 5-12 hours of NS a day for almost two years and have brought their game to near perfection. Sometimes it is skill and not cheats.
FACT: NS is one of the more popular HL mods (3rd I believe)
FACT: There is currently no anti-cheat system whatsoever for NS, no VAC, nothing
I think there are more cheaters per capita in NS then there are in CS (meaning, maybe 8 out of 100 people cheat in CS, 15 out of 100 cheat in NS). I pull these numbers out of my **** like everything else of course.
While joe h4x0r has to update his hax every week to avoid VAC detection while playing CS, he can just come onto NS and fire up his 3 month old OGC and h4x away and nobody would be the wiser, except me, because anyone who is better than me is h4x.
Anyways, sure there are a few blatant hackers than anyone can see are cheaters, but how many people are just a little bit discrete about cheating, performing feats that everyone else dismisses as good luck perhaps. Maybe toggling an aimbot when skulks come down on him while he's building a crucial PG, or turning the speedhack on for a few secs to finish that onos off before it escapes.
Not to mention the other cheats such as the mentioned ESP which are undetectable unless, again, the person is blatantly obvious.
Then there's the whole risk/reward thing. Risks of getting caught cheating: get banned from just one server(or more if there are more operated by the same person/group). Reward: look l337.
People in this community have already shown they're willing to use things such as scripts, custom sounds and custom crosshairs to gain a very minimal advantage over others. How many do you think would go the next step and use h4x to gain a much more significant advantage, an advantage that the trusting community would pass off as the person simply being "better".
I'll tell you how many...more than any of us care to admit.
Bottom line: There are more cheaters than you think out there, but who's going to know, and who's going to do something about it? No one and nobody. h4x away, we're watching but it looks like skills to us.
Here's looking forward to VAC support for NS.
P.S. You all h4x <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.counter-hack.net/' target='_blank'>http://www.counter-hack.net/</a>? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah
I think its a lot more common on pubs rather than clanmatches.
As for the ns community being paranoid im not really worried about cheats and hacks I think its mostly the game tweaks.
Its hard for me to really appreciate watching good clans play togethor because I have to wonder who's doing what. I've had people show me many tweaks and I know how to do a few on my own and thats really whats made the competitive scene lose my interest.
Not that im saying every top clanner does this but just the fact that I know they could be and theres no way for me to tell bothers me.
At the same time you have people saying scripts do nothing important with 3 pages of stuff in their config <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Consistency checks interp right?
And ya I know its harder now though some things still work but I really got out of the scene before these changes took place.
Second, Rage, if I went along with your argumentation, and I don't, because the personal 'gain' out of cheating is vastly bigger in a twitch-game such as CS than it's in NS where even the best Fade won't win the game on his own, but still needs Gorges in the back, fellow aliens keeping the rest of the map in check, and will still die when faced with more than four marines and no tactical abilities, something he can not cheat, there'd still be one question: Why bother?
If someone manages to cheat so 'discreetly' that he does not die less often than a good player, does not kill much better than a good player, and does thus not influence the game much more than a good player would, then how does that limit my enjoyment of the game? I'm a slightly-below average player, I don't believe I could get the most kills, anyway. He doesn't 'dominate' the game far enough to be frustrating, so what do I care? Granted, it's a different story in the clanscene, but I'm faithfull our competive friends have their own solutions to that problem.
Consistency checks interp right?
And ya I know its harder now though some things still work but I really got out of the scene before these changes took place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theres no interp check except forcing it to 50ms as a minimum in Steam. Theres no conceivable way to abuse it anyhow.
"OH NOES I SHALL RENDER YOUR POSITION ONLY ONCE A SECOND WITH INSANELY HIGH SETTINGS, AND THUS BE UNABLE TO POINT AT YOUR SERVER BACKLOG POSITION TO REGISTER A HIT, HAX ME!"
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Do you have ever heard of Cheating Death ?
In good Old Europe it is a Standard on all servers.
If you dont use Anti-Cheat Tec you have to life with Cheaters <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
With CD and Consistency it is impossible for the normal Cheater to use his Cheats.
Only a cheatcoder can keep up the the CD updates.
I think most people argue about Cheaters because they dont want to believe that someone is out there who is better than yourself <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is always a better player !!!
btw. I?ve never seen any Cheaters in NS and i play it since the first Day about 15 Hours and more per Week.
P.S. Sorry for my bad English. Feel free to correct me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Even pub skulks now are good at waiting til you reload to ambush you, so what advantage would an aimbot provide? Wallhacking is built into NS anyway (albiet in a less useful form) and speedhacks are impossible to hide from detection.
The great majority of hackers I saw in 1.x were just "joyriding" anyway. Non-habitual users who just wanted to cheat a bit, like anyone does in a singleplayer game at one time or another. There were very few people who hacked in competitive, and even some of them were blatant.
I'm willing to bet that 19/20 times any admin banned for "hacking" the bannee was innocent of all charges. I know I was the victim of this many times. Most admins have become a lot more mature about the burden of proof now, anyway.
"OH NOES I SHALL RENDER YOUR POSITION ONLY ONCE A SECOND WITH INSANELY HIGH SETTINGS, AND THUS BE UNABLE TO POINT AT YOUR SERVER BACKLOG POSITION TO REGISTER A HIT, HAX ME!"
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Sadly thats not true. In any event theres no reason to debate zero would lock the thread if we did.
NS is a teamgame. It is impossible for one person to win the game.
Without a team thats supports you, you have no chance to win
Squishy, you can tell if someone is using that marine script (plus it isn't all that good anyway), I've never seen someone use it, plus it can be done manually (and you lose control and will keep walking if you mess up). Seriously you cannot 'tweak' very much, if anything.
alias ex_interp ""
(in the same console window, it seems to reset to .1 when you leave the console, aliasing it out will avoid this, but also make it so you can't adjust it again without restarting half life - trying to will lock up HL)
99% of pubbers will never read that
Whatever, great work esuna for the vids you made. now i know why the guy beat the whole 6 alien team in co every game... with only 1-2 deaths. He won the game alone!
99% of pubbers will never read that <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
98% of the pubbers doesn't even know there is a command called ex_interp <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sometimes you miss and register a hit, sometimes you hit and don't. The problem can be minimized with proper net settings(including ex_interp). Ideally every shot that looks like a hit on your side should be a hit server side.
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Because some people are petty enough to do whatever it takes to (ostensibly) be the best at a video game
One can still gain an advantage, or, at least put themselves at the same level as those who have real skill using cheats. With no anti-cheat system in place (C-D, not being a universal system, doesn't really count) one can easily avoid detection(provided one doesn't use obvious cheats such as speedhack x10 or snap-action aimbot). All one would likely need is to attach some sort of tag to their name, as the "Oh, he's in a clan, so that explains his skill" mentality is rather pervasive. Demos and spectate are unreliable at best, and will again, catch only the obvious cheaters, not to mention a discreet cheater can keep tabs on the situation and know to toggle off when he sees people in the spectate team after 3-4 people call h4x on him.
Oh, and the whole "one person can't win it all" is right in the extreme sense, but one marine with exceptional skills(downloaded or not) can tie up at least half the alien team and back up your spawn queue to the point where the rest of the marines are expanding unchecked.
There really is not much you can say or do. You either choose to have faith in humanity and believe every exceptional feat is due to skill or luck, or have distrust and suspect that every other skilled player is "teh h4x".
I still think you all h4x though. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->