Carapace

Rushakra

<div class="IPBDescription">Underused?</div> Lately, there has been a distinct lack of Carapace going on. I see it on the mid- to late-game Skulk and sometimes on a pack of battle Gorges. I haven't seen a Cara Fade or Onos in a month.

I happen to like Carapace, and I want you to like it, too.

So, share with the rest of the board some uses for Carapace and we'll see if we can't make it a viable skill again. I'm rather tired of the cookie-cutter classes there are now.

Rushakra

Probably the best use I've seen for Carapace is on the 2-Hive Fade. Fades are made for hit-and-run, not extended battles. If you run into a squad of 3+ marines and take too long with the killing, you're dead. Go bye-bye.

Why WOULDN'T you get Carapace? You think 60-80 extra health (from the Regen3 while you're fighting / fleeing) is going to save you from that shotgun blast or pistol clip? Eh.. no.

You've got Blink, you can get around fast. If you need healing you can zip on back to your Hive or to a nearby Gorge and return to the front in time to still do some damage. You've got Metabolize, it's a built-in Regeneration. Hell, you can use it mid-fight if they're particularly bad shots.

Obviously the Carapace Fade isn't great for taking out electrified structures.. but if you've a Gorge near you and Metabolize (wait, why are you hitting a Node if there's a Gorge near you at Hive 2? Go kill a marine!) that extra armor really cuts down on the elec. damage.

Fades are paper in 3.0. Carapace makes you a lithium sheet (used in printing presses), or at the very least, aluminum foil. Go, my Cara Fades! Destroy!

Sky

Regen + Meta + Adren + quick fingers = magical mystical invincible bladed messiah of d00m. Meta doesn't heal fast enough on its own. And the whole point of fading is to harass the marines continuously, which is hard to do if you have to keep blinking back to the hive.

juice

Well said, but cara fades just don't cut it. You have to think of the overall destruction you'll cause over time. As long as you're careful, regen gives you the ability to do much more damage because you heal back to full health/armor so quickly, especially with meta.

Blink in, slash, blink out. Repeat. You can at least delay the marines and waste their ammo as other teammates attack. But, like I said, be careful. Good wussy regen fades are the most devastating if you look at the big picture.

Carapace is good if you're not that great at fade though. Gives you extra time if you get stuck on a corner, etc. Which brings me to another problem with cara... you'll be more easily frustrated when you have to go back to heal often, and may stay in the fray longer than you would with regen, sort of negating the "never die" aspect.

kolokol

Regen wins, unless they are right outside a point you wish to defend. The whole point of fades is to be in there for as much time as possible, if youre always in their face they are taking damadge or using up their ammo. Hopefully they are mainly missing but for the odd hit your do take you need regen. Idealy you should be back in their face in less than 2 seconds. If your using your fade to go in..get a kill, get hurt bad then spend a long time healing then your not using the fade efectively. Instead you should take minimal damadge and be constanly running in and out. As soon as your close to a marine swipe and blink away. If their just out of range when youve landed in the middle of the pack, blink away, you shouldnt be on the ground near them for more than a fraction of a second.

jamespun

Haha,try this![clelrity+carapace=superkiller.
I can use this skill+fade or skulk to kill all marine(is real,6 marine) <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo-->

DC_Darkling

for a fade I never get anything but cara

Rushakra

*Cough*

The point of this thread isn't to show why Carapace sucks, please re-read. If anything you're defeating the point. The reason for this thread is to show that Carapace is still a viable evolutionary choice, not just for Fades, but for any lifeform.

We know every Regeneration strategy already. It's boring. Show that you can pwnz0r with Cara. Go!

Norml_E_High

Well, when im swimming in res I go cara celerity gorge, because I can drop MC or DC as needed for situations. DC acts as regen, MC for adren, and voila I practically have 4 upgrades when near the chambers.

As a fade, I don't go without carapace celerity. Ever. Only time I go regen fade is when two hives are locked down and they are electrifying everything.

Challenger

The reason I prefer Regen is because fades are mostly a delaying and hit-and-run unit. They're there to stand their ground and delay the enemy as much as possible... By going Carapace, you have to run back to the hive, or a gorge, to heal, leaving free ground for the enemy to advance if you have to retreat, while with Regen you can still roam around and be opportunist in your attacks. Otherwise, I agree the 25% extra lifetime Carapace gives is nice.

Norml_E_High

Well, I didnt mention I hardly go fade at one hive anyway. When I do that, the marines probalby have both hives, and if not I'll use that res to drop our hive. With two hives metabolize takes care of needing to go to a hive grog or DCs. If you do need to go to a hive, celerity makes the trip very quick.

Forlorn

Cara is the best defensive upgrade for gorges


You get plus 50 armor, and makes you 1/3 tougher. It turns you from wussy gorge to "I take 2/3's of your LMG clip to kill gorge".

kiddiegrinder

I personally always use cara as skulk simply because of the extra hits they can take because of it, not to mention its an excellent counter to a shotgun hit which usually kills a skulk in one hit

Swift_Idiot

Cara is good for everything except onos and gorge, and that last one can be debated.

DJ_Niems

I use cara' all the time when I go gorging. When you running around doing your business like dropping res and building offence areas, a marine can easily sneak up behind you and waste you without having to reload. Also if you do see him, he can run after you and catch up, and like many a time before, knife your fat backside.

When you have cara, and if used correctly with celerity, you have the few precious seconds you need to dive for cover somewhere he can't get you, or you can outrun him (I think cele gorge is same speed as a light marine? Have not compared yet) around a corner to a hive or something. I try using redemp to, but early in the game it is not too reliable. This is also helpful in bile assaults with your teammates at marine bases: it's easy for them to get away when they [your teammates] need to heal, but you gonna neet to be a galiant gorge with some speed who can take some punishment from the marines, just because you're overweight and have an ugly face :{

With an Onos, cara even gives you more armour than health, so you can sit there in their base, wasting their arms / proto lab with the whole team shooting you (asuming the average one doesnt have a HMG), and when low on health, you can just charge out of there is you have your 3rd hive. Easy (well, if you're on DSL, and not 64k like me which can take up to a second to select charge in a biiig firefight <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> *sob*).

Necrosis

Fadewise its good for defence, and if you've a competent gorge then there'll be lots of DCs to heal at.

Failing that, take adren and just spam meta until you go blind.







I like Cara onos, its very nice if you intend to battering ram some rines or soak up a lot of damage. Suicide stuff.

NGE

And debated it shall be!


It's incredibly useful for the gorge, if you think about it- it adds an additional 100 health points overall at the hive one level. The 50 armor it gives is 120% of the gorges starting armor, making it quite large in terms of bonus given. A gorge is going to be destroyed up close without a chance of escape should it have regen or no upgrade, and redemption is putting your fate into luck.

I'd go as far to say that it's more of a waste on skulks- 2 res for 40 extra hp. It does definatly help, but you still don't have enough to be a real threat. You're gone in one SG blast still, and it doesn't help much for anything other than early on. Sure, it's 200% of its initial armor- that's still only 20 more armor. It's still the strongest D chamber choice for skulks, regardless.

It's by far and large useless on the onos. You can pretty much regen the bonus cara gives you mid combat with the onos. It's a little less useless than redemption. Maybe.

It's very nice to use carapace on the lerk, should you decide to engage rines up close. A lv 2 shotgun will kill a lerk in one hit should it not have carapace- otherwise, it'll always survive the first blast. Regen is equally viable for most situations- You'll have to play more conservatively, but you'll be able to stay on the field for extended periods of time.

And the fade. Redempt fade, is useless. Ok, now that that's out of my system, I'll go over the pros and cons quickly of the other two. Regen will allow the fade to stay on the field, harrasing and killing the Rines as neccasary. Carapace, however, allows the fade to engage multiple shotgunners and/or upgraded rines, and come out of the situation alive, even with some error. You're facing the obvious disadvantage of only being able to heal at the hive, or at DC's or the gorge(s). Dc's and gorge(s) will take a while, however. At the two hive level, the fade can quickly blink back to either hive for a quick heal, or metab to heal light damage quickly, making cara even more powerful on it, yet stacked regen/metab makes it so you'll never really need to go to the hive again to heal unless you want to save a small amount of time if you're nearby. Both are quite viable choices on the fade.

Carapace definatly has it's advantages. You've got to upgrade appropriatly- depending on your play style, and the situation.

DC_Darkling

as I always say:

"regen heals you, but cara makes you survive to be healed"

TOmekki

most of the time, waiting for another hive to be finished before you go fade, is not an option. the marines must be stopped now, or the hive will go down. this is why you need regen. but, if i go fade at 2 hives, i usually take cara+cele fade. ah the speed... altho celerity-blinking around ns_agora at 20 fps makes my eyes bleed >:(

UKchaos

Cara fades takes ages to heal using meta though. I dont see the appeal of using it over regen unless you have easy access to DCs or a hive. For me, the armour bonus doesnt justify the increased down-time.

Wirhe

I always used cara as a skulk, but I don't think that it's worth 2 res anymore. It's not bad, still very useful, but skulk is just cannon-fodder with a average lifespan of 3 seconds (if camped, hehe <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). It's still pretty useful for a gorge and lerk -even though it doesn't stop 1 shot kills (like sg-blasts, not insta-gibs).

TheAdj

Recognize what upgrade is good for what play style and situation. Carapace is mainly for a brunt force assault on marines. You can blink in and beat the hell out of marines, even if they have shotguns. It makes it difficult to kill you, even if you make a mistake. It's also good for making marines empty their clips on you. Common clan tactics include using a cara and a regen fade. Cara fade blinks in and takes mad damage, then the regen fade finishes off the rines as they reload. Regen is mainly for constant harassment, because it can't take mad damage like a cara fade. Blinking into more than 2 shotgunners isn't wise with regen, because you most likely won't survive the initial attack. This is why cara is useful, because it can absorb extra damage that allows you to get damage into marines and escape, which is your goal.

severijn

The homing missile lerk: Scent of fear + carapace + celerity = auch! Everything smaller then an HA dies.

DC_Darkling

I hardly use metab. Most fades (MOST) apear on 2 hives.. With MCs aswell. great, celerity.

get to DCs/hive and you are back in action long before regen is getting you back up

Chods

if dc is dropped at the start of the game i always get cara skulk. at 2 hives with mcs and dcs, i get regen/silence skulk and then hopefully regen/adren fade.

i was playing ns 3.0 with bots the other day and i went cara onos and laughed when i saw 700hp, 750 armour. why do people complain the onos is weak?

Trevelyan

<!--QuoteBegin-Chods+Jun 11 2004, 10:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chods @ Jun 11 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if dc is dropped at the start of the game i always get cara skulk. at 2 hives with mcs and dcs, i get regen/silence skulk and then hopefully regen/adren fade.

i was playing ns 3.0 with bots the other day and i went cara onos and laughed when i saw 700hp, 750 armour. why do people complain the onos is weak? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats a WHOPING 25 HMG rounds... at the expense of dieing to any LA marine that chases you out of wherever you were attacking.

Chods

<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jun 11 2004, 10:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jun 11 2004, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Chods+Jun 11 2004, 10:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chods @ Jun 11 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if dc is dropped at the start of the game i always get cara skulk. at 2 hives with mcs and dcs, i get regen/silence skulk and then hopefully regen/adren fade.

i was playing ns 3.0 with bots the other day and i went cara onos and laughed when i saw 700hp, 750 armour. why do people complain the onos is weak? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats a WHOPING 25 HMG rounds... at the expense of dieing to any LA marine that chases you out of wherever you were attacking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha damn, hmg sounds heapz powerful

bots could only tickle my **** with their lmgs <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

aonomus

Regen is meant for longevity away from support such as a gorge or dc's, while cara is meant for short quick battles that you can heal from, you can't afford to retreat half the map on cara alone, you will die.

Neither is better, just depends on the situation

kiddiegrinder

<!--QuoteBegin-D.C. Darkling+Jun 11 2004, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D.C. Darkling @ Jun 11 2004, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hardly use metab. Most fades (MOST) apear on 2 hives.. With MCs aswell. great, celerity.

get to DCs/hive and you are back in action long before regen is getting you back up <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If i was honest though i prefer to blink in quick, only hit em once or twice an get out asap....reason being if i get regen i can then heal quicker with meta + regen and attack em once again...but this can depend on their level of weapons.

If they have level 3 weapons im more inclined to get cara but if they have level 1 or 2 an only level one armor i usually always get regen an simply try an rush in rush out annoyingly to keep them from moving in on the map

kolokol

Tbh fades are too weak, even with cara to do enough damadge before they have to run for it. This makes regen and constantly popping in and out much more effective. By poping in and out i mean taking minimal damadge and being back in their face inside 2 seconds, your aim is to waste their ammo. However before second hive this is laughable without celerity as anyone can hurt you really bad before you can get back round the corner. With celerity you can constantly fly in and out. Fly in one swipe fly out, metab twice fly in one swipe fly out metab repeat. Never ever take a second swipe unless you know its going to work, if you miss run and come back in.
Using the fade any other way means you are at a serious risk of death when taking on more than 2.

NuclearCoreMeltdown

I really only use carapace if I'm a gorge, cause that'll save me some time perhaps to get away. Onos dont really benifit from Carapace much cause they only get as somone said 200 more armor, while with regen, they heal 60 a tick, which, regardless if they have an HMG, that carapace isnt gonna save you. For lerk, I dont like it much either, cause with regen, you can harass much easier, and can get out of sticky situations safer. Skulks, it depends on how fast those DCs come up, if they come up within a min of the start, then I'll get it, otherwise, level 1 or 2 weapons really dont matter, you're gonna die just as fast. Fades do benifit, but as said before, unless you're defending, its not as good as regen. Carapace depends on playing style really, if you're more conservative and less agressive, its perfect for ya.