Stick it in and leave it there for a few betas, and see how it goes. We can talk about it forever, but it's only once it's in the game that we can really see what the flaws are.
The hive status artwork at the top right corner of the screen will have to be changed if this is added, and that could be months of intense work! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think unchaining the chambers would bring clanwars to another level! Now (with chained chambers) clanwars are won because of good regeneration fades ... unchained chambers will center the <b>tactics</b> in clanwars.
for as long as the votes go the way of yes hopefully <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no, because it'd remove another element of tactics from the alien side, of which few actually remain. This would remove yet another reason to actually work for all 3 hives, whereas in 1.04 there were more (higher evolutions, chambers, skills), and thus more tactics needed
I kind of see your point there, but it also removes one of the most useful aspects of the sc, ambushes or puts a big dependancy on cloaking as an upgrade.
[edit] that was to moomin not spacer. damn you spacer! [edit] also spacer, you still only can take one upgrade at one hive, so the hive dependancy is still there. unchaining the hives allows upgrades like cloaking and silence to be used when they are really needed : early game.
Hives still give you an armour/ hp boost dont they?
They still give you extra abilities (leap)
They allow you to get more upgrades (cara/ focus / silence)
There is still a huge gain from getting the 2nd hive, maybe not the third hive cause the abilities are **** <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I vote yes, if it fux everything up we can remove it, but we all know it won't. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And it's about bloody time this poll is created <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Jun 1 2004, 08:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Jun 1 2004, 08:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I read in an interview with Flayra that he would have liked to see more forward chamber building.
With this you could drop DC/SC clusters all around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But at the expense of less fades
You may actually see marines seige out area's that aren't hives moomin
Who knows
The counters for heavy alien infestation are already there, it's just that they are never used and have no need for heavy use.
edit: But even with unchained chambers I think the cost of gorging is the main reason why any structure of aliens going down is an almost unrecoverable blow to the team. I'm surprised people dont siege any DC in vents right now as it's a cheap and easy way of crippling the alien team. That said, most DCs are in hives to help defend against attacks.
cant hurt to try it. Sounds like a fair idea in principle. Although I voted "I dont care" because in truth I think that there are other issues to deal with first.
Sigh, i'm not going to bother reading this so I don't know if it's already been said. The argument for and against unchaining was brought up on IRC. and many failed to grasp what it was to achieve. Many thought that this will lead to all chambers being put out at the start of the game and will instantly mean an alien victory. I'll explain otherwise. In a 9 man/team public game :: 3 gorges for RTs 1 gorge for 3 chambers 2 fades 1 hive saver 1 lerk or two skulks whoring for whatever
I don't see how some will come to the conclusion that alien will instantly put out 3 of each chamber in the early game 1-3 minutes. With this you would need 9 players building nothing but chambers and have a res flow of less than 1 per 2 seconds each. Like hell aliens will win.
Oh, and isn't it going to be hard to kill a team full of gorges..
if aliens wanna dish out a 90 res investment, let them and gain the benefits it'll still be DC MC and SC in that order...but you would see SC happening a bit earlier too....for sneaky skulks and secret gorges...or just a real strong fade...
besides, if they have 2 hives, fighting for the last, they can atleast get the last upgrade that could help them win
I could go on, with this there are so many new tactics the marines could use
And yeh it would be nice to see seige's being used to do something other than kill a hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I exedentely pressed [view results (nul vote)] becaus it was the biggest button and i wanst paying attention :S
but i wanted to vote <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>YES</span></span>
so its one more yes than it says <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-MagiTek+May 31 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MagiTek @ May 31 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As others have mentioned, this idea has been suggested many times. I myself made a <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28860&hl=' target='_blank'>post</a> about it back in the 1.04 days, and I know others had done so even before that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68802&hl=' target='_blank'>Same Here</a>, but I guess I'm not cool enough to get a bandwagon started. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I dont see many disagreeing with this... besides the usual marine stackers that h8 every alien buff ever created.
<!--QuoteBegin-meatball+Jun 1 2004, 03:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (meatball @ Jun 1 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes... It would add some diversity to alien gameplay, and if it sucks it can always be changed back to normal and nobody will die just for trying <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You never know maybe <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showuser=12789' target='_blank'>Ryo-Ohki</a> will be taken out and shot for making flayra change his code <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Rue+Jun 1 2004, 10:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Jun 1 2004, 10:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-meatball+Jun 1 2004, 03:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (meatball @ Jun 1 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes... It would add some diversity to alien gameplay, and if it sucks it can always be changed back to normal and nobody will die just for trying <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You never know maybe <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showuser=12789' target='_blank'>Ryo-Ohki</a> will be taken out and shot for making flayra change his code <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lets hope that he wont
A) This wont make the slightest bit of difference. I mean you could only ever get 3 structures within the first lets say... 5 minutes. Nobody will want ONE of each chamber, they will still want level 3 of each! So essentially things would stay the same anyway, until after the 5 minute point, where generally games are already won by then. To put it simply, unless aliens were totally dominating, there's no way they'd have the res capabillity to have 3 DC 3 MC and 3 SC before the game is already won anyway.
B) It was bad enough unchaining lifeforms from the hive. So much complaining has gone on recently about how great 1.04 was "Yeah onos was rare and actually scary" etc. Well this is just taking it one step further. The next logical step is to make aliens able to do all moves at 1 hive!
Why do that you say?! Oh becuase a few people thought it might be a great idea and then they starting brainwashing people with this in the I&S forum with signature 'virus's' and avatars...
Some people actually do want to diversify their chamber res, lvl 1 cloak works just as well as lvl 3, it just takes time, lvl 1 regen allows you to regenerate, and as long as your hidden, you will. Lvl 1 cara is a whole lot better then none at all. Hell with my slot idea, we could add more points to balance that out without over-powering the alien team. Look below
And then compare to when its lvl three. The slot system would allow an easy way for aliens to choose their power ups and let them diversify how they want. If you want them chained to the chambers anyway, allow only two slots max unless all three chambers are up for that area. Another suggestion would be to add 1-2 extra slot points if you have five or more skills or the such.
Um...I would like to see some SC's next to Rt's like for instance horseshoe Rt on eclipse, wouldnt it be great if you had a SC in the vent <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just because there is a SC does not mean that I will get an upgrade from it, I will then have DC's or MC's to choose from
Oh and I hosted that image for you Thor-Stryker but I hope you understand that to get an upgrade from both the DC and MC you will require 2 hives? This isn't a pick and mix of upgrades so you cant get lvl1 cloaking and lvl2 focus.
Edit: Oh I didnt notice, please dont try and post you own idea for upgrades in this thread, mainly because this isn't about different ways to upgrade alines, its about the vote.
Kaze, changing your avatar to something you like the idea of is not exactly brainwashing now is it?
Comments
Voted for yes.
Nem' How long you going to leave this poll open for?
Always DEF,MOVE and than SENSE
It´s always the same prenciep
And this unchaining chamber would make clanwars much more funny with other much more tactic changes
That would be useful because there would be a lot more chambers around.
[edit] that was to moomin not spacer. damn you spacer!
[edit] also spacer, you still only can take one upgrade at one hive, so the hive dependancy is still there. unchaining the hives allows upgrades like cloaking and silence to be used when they are really needed : early game.
They still give you extra abilities (leap)
They allow you to get more upgrades (cara/ focus / silence)
There is still a huge gain from getting the 2nd hive, maybe not the third hive cause the abilities are **** <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And it's about bloody time this poll is created <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
With this you could drop DC/SC clusters all around.
With this you could drop DC/SC clusters all around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But at the expense of less fades
You may actually see marines seige out area's that aren't hives moomin
Who knows
The counters for heavy alien infestation are already there, it's just that they are never used and have no need for heavy use.
edit: But even with unchained chambers I think the cost of gorging is the main reason why any structure of aliens going down is an almost unrecoverable blow to the team. I'm surprised people dont siege any DC in vents right now as it's a cheap and easy way of crippling the alien team. That said, most DCs are in hives to help defend against attacks.
The argument for and against unchaining was brought up on IRC. and many failed to grasp what it was to achieve. Many thought that this will lead to all chambers being put out at the start of the game and will instantly mean an alien victory.
I'll explain otherwise.
In a 9 man/team public game ::
3 gorges for RTs
1 gorge for 3 chambers
2 fades
1 hive saver
1 lerk or two skulks whoring for whatever
I don't see how some will come to the conclusion that alien will instantly put out 3 of each chamber in the early game 1-3 minutes. With this you would need 9 players building nothing but chambers and have a res flow of less than 1 per 2 seconds each.
Like hell aliens will win.
Oh, and isn't it going to be hard to kill a team full of gorges..
Unchain the chambers. Make NS fun again.
it'll still be DC MC and SC in that order...but you would see SC happening a bit earlier too....for sneaky skulks and secret gorges...or just a real strong fade...
besides, if they have 2 hives, fighting for the last, they can atleast get the last upgrade that could help them win
3 gorges for RTs
1 gorge for 3 chambers
2 fades
1 hive saver
1 lerk or two skulks whoring for whatever<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or
3 gorges for RT's
5 Fades <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I could go on, with this there are so many new tactics the marines could use
And yeh it would be nice to see seige's being used to do something other than kill a hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I exedentely pressed [view results (nul vote)] becaus it was the biggest button and i wanst paying attention :S
but i wanted to vote
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>YES</span></span>
so its one more yes than it says <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
my reasons are in the other topic
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68802&hl=' target='_blank'>Same Here</a>, but I guess I'm not cool enough to get a bandwagon started. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I dont see many disagreeing with this... besides the usual marine stackers that h8 every alien buff ever created.
It would add some diversity to alien gameplay, and if it sucks it can always be changed back to normal and nobody will die just for trying
It would add some diversity to alien gameplay, and if it sucks it can always be changed back to normal and nobody will die just for trying <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never know maybe <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showuser=12789' target='_blank'>Ryo-Ohki</a> will be taken out and shot for making flayra change his code <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It would add some diversity to alien gameplay, and if it sucks it can always be changed back to normal and nobody will die just for trying <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never know maybe <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showuser=12789' target='_blank'>Ryo-Ohki</a> will be taken out and shot for making flayra change his code <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lets hope that he wont
A) This wont make the slightest bit of difference. I mean you could only ever get 3 structures within the first lets say... 5 minutes. Nobody will want ONE of each chamber, they will still want level 3 of each! So essentially things would stay the same anyway, until after the 5 minute point, where generally games are already won by then. To put it simply, unless aliens were totally dominating, there's no way they'd have the res capabillity to have 3 DC 3 MC and 3 SC before the game is already won anyway.
B) It was bad enough unchaining lifeforms from the hive. So much complaining has gone on recently about how great 1.04 was "Yeah onos was rare and actually scary" etc. Well this is just taking it one step further. The next logical step is to make aliens able to do all moves at 1 hive!
Why do that you say?! Oh becuase a few people thought it might be a great idea and then they starting brainwashing people with this in the I&S forum with signature 'virus's' and avatars...
Look below
<img src='http://i.1asphost.com/aclelland/thor2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Just because there is a SC does not mean that I will get an upgrade from it, I will then have DC's or MC's to choose from
Oh and I hosted that image for you Thor-Stryker but I hope you understand that to get an upgrade from both the DC and MC you will require 2 hives? This isn't a pick and mix of upgrades so you cant get lvl1 cloaking and lvl2 focus.
<a href='http://i.1asphost.com/aclelland/thor2.jpg' target='_blank'>Image Hosted here</a>
So this image shows an impossable situation
Edit: Oh I didnt notice, please dont try and post you own idea for upgrades in this thread, mainly because this isn't about different ways to upgrade alines, its about the vote.
Kaze, changing your avatar to something you like the idea of is not exactly brainwashing now is it?