Lotr Rotk Question...

Mullet · May 2004

At the end of the movie when Frodo, Gandalf, Bilbo, etc, are going away on the boat, are they dead and going to heaven? It does make some sense if you think about it...

Frodo died when he was stabbed, Gandalf died when he faught Balrog, and etc. Then in ROTK, Gandalf tells pippin or merry that dieing is only the next adventure. At the end, Gandalf says they are finishing their adventure.....

What the hay? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

Snidely · May 2004

They just couldn't stand being around Sam, Merry and Pippin any more. They actually sail around the corner, then jump off the boat and go to Gandalf's place for weed.

xioutlawix · May 2004

Read the books <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

j/k

They're going to the undying lands, where the valar (think gods) dwell.
In the book at least, Frodo never really recovers from his wound inflicted by the lord of the nazgul, supposedly the land of the gods is a real place, white shores, beautiful mountains, unearthly light, heals all wounds, everyone's happy and know no pain, yadda yadda typical stuff.

The elves gradually start returning to this land as they grow more and more weary of middle-earth, its really all quite sad and expressed much better in the books =)

Edit - I like snidely's interpreation better.

Cyndane · May 2004

Yup... I like his description better too.. I would grow sick of them as well.

Tykjen · May 2004

and gandalf is only with frodo cause of the weed

Insane · May 2004

Gandalf talking about the dying thing is actually inaccurate as far as the book is concerned. What he says is pretty much verbatim for the book's description of Frodo's experiences as he reaches Valinor (the undying lands), which, in the Silmarillion is described as a real place, and could actually be reached from Middle-Earth before the Downfall of Númenor.

As, xioutlawix says, that's where the ship sails to. As for what actually happens when Hobbits die (the different races have different fates), the books don't say, and I don't think that Gandalf knows.

Yes, there's a chance I do know too much about these things, but I retain knowledge pretty easily without any particular effort. Usually one reading/viewing of something is enough to cement it in my head for easy recall later. It's a pity that I can't remember useful things like where I left my phone. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

RyoOhki · May 2004

Part of the reason they sail away is because of the wounds they suffered, but the main reason is that they're all Ring-bearers. With the power of the Rings gone thanks to the destruction of the One Ring, those who bore the rings feel a great sense of loss. The look on Frodo's face as he hangs over the Pit of Doom shows that it pains him greatly to lose the Ring. Gandalf carries one of the Elvan rings, as does Galadrial. Just before they leave for Valinor Frodo says that Sam will join him one day because Sam was a ring-bearer for a short time. Apart from the elves of course who are all going anyway.

The only dwarf who goes to Valinor is Gimli I believe; Legolas takes him with him some 20 years after the end of RoTK. That date might be innacurate; it's been a while since I've read the books.

Epidemic · May 2004

It strikes me, the feeling after a big adrenaline rush like meeting, nazgul ring and etc.. could be abit of what frodo feels, maybe a part of him feel he doesnt belong in that time/space

Hida_Tsuzua · May 2004

In some ways, Frodo and the others (mortal) on the boat are dead and going to heaven. The reason why man is not allowed to go to the Undying Lands/Valinor (this was a major issue in the second age) is that everything there doesn't age is any way noticeable to him (Valinor and Elves do age, just with the world, elves can age in another way but that doesn't factor in here). This means that while everything around him isn't changing and happy, he ages quickly and faces his mortality. This in turn leads to jealously and hate which removes all joy for living. However in Frodo's, Bilbo's, and later Sam's and Glimi's case, they have accepted the mortality fully and are prepared to die. Thus going on the boat is akin to death.

For more, check <a href='http://greenbooks.theonering.net/questions/files/071503.html' target='_blank'>Here</a>

Swiftspear · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ May 29 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> In the book at least, Frodo never really recovers from his wound inflicted by the lord of the nazgul, supposedly the land of the gods is a real place, white shores, beautiful mountains, unearthly light, heals all wounds, everyone's happy and know no pain, yadda yadda typical stuff.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Thank you... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

EvenFlow · May 2004

Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way ?

ElvenThief · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way ?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

-Look! It's a bird!
-No. It's an eagle.
-No. It's an eagle bearing the dude with the ring we want so bad. Too bad they didn't try to be sneaky and walk it in. *swipe*

EvenFlow · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (E-Th33ph @ May 31 2004, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way ?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

-Look! It's a bird!
-No. It's an eagle.
-No. It's an eagle bearing the dude with the ring we want so bad. Too bad they didn't try to be sneaky and walk it in. *swipe*  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> , but seriously, all he would've had to deal with is a bunch of crows and a couple of those flying dragon things, there wasn't even anyone guarding the entrance to the volcano.

Supernorn · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way?
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Because the story would have been really boring?

Narfwak · May 2004

If you want to know what the heck Valinor and all that jazz is about, read the Silmarillion. It's basically a rough history of Middle Earth up to the Lord of the Rings saga in the form of a collection of short stories and myths. It's great reading for a true Tolkien fan.

Seph_Kimara · May 2004

And if you like metal music, get Nightfall in Middle Earth by Blind Guardian [/pimp]

Epidemic · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ May 31 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way?
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Because the story would have been really boring?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Then we have underestimated frodo. He both carries the burden of the ring and the burden to make the story interesting <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Hida_Tsuzua · May 2004

The eagles are a sore point in Tolkien's world as they are nearly literal feathered deus ex machina. They are the semi-living semi-spirit (like Ents) servents of Manwe the head of the Valar (paganish gods or powerful angels). My personal guess is that if Manwe let his eagles let them get away with it too easy God would be **** (as it seemed Valar can't really deal with man much) and remake the world again or something. Also, the eagles be snipered off or something.

DarkDude · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ May 31 2004, 04:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (E-Th33ph @ May 31 2004, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Someone please tell my why Gandalf couldn't hook Frodo up with one of those giant eagles in the first place instead of making him walk all that way ?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

-Look! It's a bird!
-No. It's an eagle.
-No. It's an eagle bearing the dude with the ring we want so bad. Too bad they didn't try to be sneaky and walk it in. *swipe* </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> , but seriously, all he would've had to deal with is a bunch of crows and a couple of those flying dragon things, there wasn't even anyone guarding the entrance to the volcano.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, and we <i>all</i> know how easy it is to fly past 7 flesh eating dragons. Much less carrying a Hobbit, and a bitchy one at that.

Lotr Rotk Question...

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