i have had mozilla crash on me.... *thinks really hard* about 14 times...
most of which is by overload... (forums with 187 images hotlinked... and i've got 6 tabs of them opened)...
i use full mozilla... i needed the e-mail client... i made the switch because IE stopped saving my cookies... and as an avid forum-reader, i need to be logged in automatically.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+May 24 2004, 09:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ May 24 2004, 09:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only way would be to make an exact copy of the one they're used to but provide reasons they would want it. Such as less pop-ups, less chances of viruses. But remember, it HAS to be a clone, they have to be able to start it up and not notice any difference in them. That is your average user, and if you're getting into the IT and Networking world, you WILL have to adapt to that train of thought or otherwise, you will go insane. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Except people aren't idiots.
Back at home, I moved all the PCs over to Mozilla so I wouldn't have to deal with monstrous IE problems such as spyware and browser hijacking. I don't think anyone noticed - except that my mother did comment on all the popup adverts disappearing. Occasionally a web page renders badly or is broken, in which case my mother blames the people who built the site and moves on. When I'm back at home and I have a chance to check on the machine, the story's always the same - no spyware, no viruses. Not bad, really.
My dad's moved over to Linux (his choice), and uses OpenOffice.org for opening all his work stuff. In the rare event of it not opening a file properly, he starts up Microsoft Office 97 in Wine. He's no computer expert, and wouldn't have a clue with a bash command prompt, but he still manages to do various admin things without problems. He set up a new dialup internet account in Kppp a while ago without any prompting from me. I gave him the root password recently, and he hasn't broken the machine. YaST is more than enough for him.
There's this weird attitude that Microsoft software is somehow perfect from a usability point of view, and that any free software - even if the 'back' button is just a different colour or the bookmarks are called 'Bookmarks' instead of favourites - will immediately stump anyone and everyone who isn't a computer expert. It honestly isn't the case, and people figure out the differences <i>very</i> quickly. And given a choice, they'll almost always choose Mozilla.
So nobody knows how to disable these damn visual styles? Silly how IE has a built in option to do it yet nobody has even made a plug-in or extension for Firefox... :X
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+May 24 2004, 06:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ May 24 2004, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So nobody knows how to disable these damn visual styles? Silly how IE has a built in option to do it yet nobody has even made a plug-in or extension for Firefox... :X <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I might be able to help, if I knew what the hell you were talking about. Could you describe for me what these XP visual styles are?
Here are the visual styles Firefox is using. Its a Windows XP thing, which looks fine with windows applications, but looks horrible on interweb, thus why MS included the option to turn them off in IE6. I can find no such option or extension or plug-in or CSS hack *ANYWHERE* in Firefox.
DruBoBack In BeigeJoin Date: 2002-02-06Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
Well, I'm using firefox personally, and my forum interface looks like the second screenshot you posted. But that's because my XP is in 'windows classic' mode.
One thing you can check is if there's a little button in the bottom left corner like in the screenshot below: <img src='http://208.35.225.137/jrhodes/style.png' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> That's how firefox changes website themes. But I think all the mozilloids use the Windows default '3d buttons' object wherever 3d buttons lie, and IE cheats.
Unfortunately, the current default menu appearance in Firefox is some sort of a compromise between the flat Windows XP menus and the 3D appearance of older versions of Windows. If you want the menus to appear native to the Windows Classic appearance, add the following code to your userChrome.css file:
What exactly did you have to spend 4 hours editing config files for anyway, Doom? Every time a new version of Firefox comes out, I do a clean install and I'm back up and running in 15 minutes, after I download a few extensions. I've never even looked at half the advanced features and it works just fine.
um... not trying to flame or anything but how exactly is this a Firefox problem? Shouldn't XP itself have a tool that lets you select which programs you want to use visual styles? Firefox uses what the shell uses right? so isn't the problem the shell?
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+May 24 2004, 08:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ May 24 2004, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Here are the visual styles Firefox is using. Its a Windows XP thing, which looks fine with windows applications, but looks horrible on interweb, thus why MS included the option to turn them off in IE6. I can find no such option or extension or plug-in or CSS hack *ANYWHERE* in Firefox. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, I see... heres a crazy idea: try running it in win98 compatability mode (I'm not an XP user so I'm not sure that means what I think it means...). Other than that it might have to be changed in the source, which I might do for money, but otherwise wading through other peoples code (especially in such large volumes) gives me nightmares.
<!--QuoteBegin-version91x+May 24 2004, 11:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ May 24 2004, 11:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> um... not trying to flame or anything but how exactly is this a Firefox problem? Shouldn't XP itself have a tool that lets you select which programs you want to use visual styles? Firefox uses what the shell uses right? so isn't the problem the shell? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, I want the title bar (title, icon, max/min/close buttons) to all stay XP style to match, oh dunno, every other freakin program I'm running, and also have the File, Edit, etc menus match too, but just have the web pages themselves render w/o the styles.
I don't think its too much to ask, since IE6 does it with the tick of a simple check box, considering every other browser has to scream "OMG IE EVAL" at the top of their lungs.
So no, its not a XP problem, its a Firefox lack of feature problem.
yes but IE is made by the same company.. they have a checkbox instead of an app, because dare they say that their products are of equal importance to the others.
also if you use windowblinds instead of these visualstyles you can do just that. im quite sure theres a winXP theme.
Cept windowblinds has the uncanny tendancy to gobble the resources <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hand me the Gun and Ask me Again: I didn't say they were idiots or anything. That an average user from what I know of, would notice such differences and start complaining. You have to remember, there are still a lot of people out there that may still even be in their mid-twenties that may not be well experienced in computers. I remember when I was first learning how to use them, I had a better rationality than most did, but I was still afraid of tweaking some settings in Windows because I wasn't sure of what they did. When it comes to software and OSes, you pretty much have to make a clone of what they're used to for them to even try it. I have tinkered in LINUX, a requirement of my courses in college, and the instructor even said himself that you have to work in the LINUX console at times for it to work effectively. Of course, this guy can just be one of those LINUX pureists but I don't know. But from my experience, the LINUX GUI still takes quit a bit of time to load even without any alterations and a lot of memory, and looks and acts different enough to throw many users off. But I do admit that in this region, people aren't really computer literate. I for the most part live in a hick town that resides next to a hick city, so my views of average users may be lower than what is really out there.
There is no "official" linux gui. If your current one feels slow (im guessing kde, the most sluggish of em all), use a lighter one. Try XFCE. If thats not light enough, go fluxbox or something.
DOOM: never realized that you can do that in IE. If you really want it, suggest it to the Firefox people.
FamDiaper-Wearing Dog On A BallJoin Date: 2002-02-17Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited May 2004
I don't hate Microsoft, I just hate their neglect of IE.
For DOOM:
<span style='color:blue'>1.</span> Go to: <a href='http://home.comcast.net/~jkeis10/' target='_blank'>http://home.comcast.net/~jkeis10/</a> <span style='color:blue'>2.</span> Click the <b>Install MozFBRH</b> link. <span style='color:blue'>3.</span> Install and restart Firefox (and hope you dont hit the bug where it crashes after installing a new extension <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). <span style='color:blue'>4.</span> Load Firefox back up and type in <b>about:config</b> in the address bar. <span style='color:blue'>5.</span> Right click and select New->Boolean <span style='color:blue'>6.</span> Enter <b>browser.urlbar.autoFill</b> as the preference name <span style='color:blue'>7.</span> Enter <b>true</b> as the preference value <span style='color:blue'>8.</span> Restart Firefox.
Worked for me, in-line autocomplete with no hitches whatsoever. I'll try and get you an answer to that second problem after my exams, I should be revising. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
most of which is by overload... (forums with 187 images hotlinked... and i've got 6 tabs of them opened)...
i use full mozilla... i needed the e-mail client... i made the switch because IE stopped saving my cookies... and as an avid forum-reader, i need to be logged in automatically.
Except people aren't idiots.
Back at home, I moved all the PCs over to Mozilla so I wouldn't have to deal with monstrous IE problems such as spyware and browser hijacking. I don't think anyone noticed - except that my mother did comment on all the popup adverts disappearing. Occasionally a web page renders badly or is broken, in which case my mother blames the people who built the site and moves on. When I'm back at home and I have a chance to check on the machine, the story's always the same - no spyware, no viruses. Not bad, really.
My dad's moved over to Linux (his choice), and uses OpenOffice.org for opening all his work stuff. In the rare event of it not opening a file properly, he starts up Microsoft Office 97 in Wine. He's no computer expert, and wouldn't have a clue with a bash command prompt, but he still manages to do various admin things without problems. He set up a new dialup internet account in Kppp a while ago without any prompting from me. I gave him the root password recently, and he hasn't broken the machine. YaST is more than enough for him.
There's this weird attitude that Microsoft software is somehow perfect from a usability point of view, and that any free software - even if the 'back' button is just a different colour or the bookmarks are called 'Bookmarks' instead of favourites - will immediately stump anyone and everyone who isn't a computer expert. It honestly isn't the case, and people figure out the differences <i>very</i> quickly. And given a choice, they'll almost always choose Mozilla.
I might be able to help, if I knew what the hell you were talking about. Could you describe for me what these XP visual styles are?
One thing you can check is if there's a little button in the bottom left corner like in the screenshot below:
<img src='http://208.35.225.137/jrhodes/style.png' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
That's how firefox changes website themes. But I think all the mozilloids use the Windows default '3d buttons' object wherever 3d buttons lie, and IE cheats.
Use Windows Classic (9x/Me/2000) styled menus
Unfortunately, the current default menu appearance in Firefox is some sort of a compromise between the flat Windows XP menus and the 3D appearance of older versions of Windows. If you want the menus to appear native to the Windows Classic appearance, add the following code to your userChrome.css file:
/* Windows Classic (9x/Me/2000) style Menus */
menupopup, popup {
border: 2px solid !important;
-moz-border-top-colors: ThreeDLightShadow ThreeDHighlight;
-moz-border-right-colors: ThreeDDarkShadow ThreeDShadow;
-moz-border-bottom-colors: ThreeDDarkShadow ThreeDShadow;
-moz-border-left-colors: ThreeDLightShadow ThreeDHighlight;
padding: 1px !important;
}
menubar > menu[disabled="true"] {
border: 1px solid transparent !important;
}
menubar > menu[_moz-menuactive="true"] {
border-top: 1px solid ThreeDHighlight !important;
border-right: 1px solid ThreeDShadow !important;
border-bottom: 1px solid ThreeDShadow !important;
border-left: 1px solid ThreeDHighlight !important;
background-color: transparent !important;
color: MenuText !important;
}
menubar > menu[_moz-menuactive="true"][open="true"] {
border-top: 1px solid ThreeDShadow !important;
border-right: 1px solid ThreeDHighlight !important;
border-bottom: 1px solid ThreeDHighlight !important;
border-left: 1px solid ThreeDShadow !important;
}
And just turning off visual styles would be fuguly...
Think of it like using Windows XP right after install w/o adjusting any of its settings. Its horrible. Same thing w/ Firefox.
Ah, I see... heres a crazy idea: try running it in win98 compatability mode (I'm not an XP user so I'm not sure that means what I think it means...). Other than that it might have to be changed in the source, which I might do for money, but otherwise wading through other peoples code (especially in such large volumes) gives me nightmares.
The thing is, I want the title bar (title, icon, max/min/close buttons) to all stay XP style to match, oh dunno, every other freakin program I'm running, and also have the File, Edit, etc menus match too, but just have the web pages themselves render w/o the styles.
I don't think its too much to ask, since IE6 does it with the tick of a simple check box, considering every other browser has to scream "OMG IE EVAL" at the top of their lungs.
So no, its not a XP problem, its a Firefox lack of feature problem.
also if you use windowblinds instead of these visualstyles you can do just that. im quite sure theres a winXP theme.
But i don't think that helps.
What about using plain ole Mozilla?
DOOM: never realized that you can do that in IE. If you really want it, suggest it to the Firefox people.
I don't hate Microsoft.
For DOOM:
<span style='color:blue'>1.</span> Go to: <a href='http://home.comcast.net/~jkeis10/' target='_blank'>http://home.comcast.net/~jkeis10/</a>
<span style='color:blue'>2.</span> Click the <b>Install MozFBRH</b> link.
<span style='color:blue'>3.</span> Install and restart Firefox (and hope you dont hit the bug where it crashes after installing a new extension <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
<span style='color:blue'>4.</span> Load Firefox back up and type in <b>about:config</b> in the address bar.
<span style='color:blue'>5.</span> Right click and select New->Boolean
<span style='color:blue'>6.</span> Enter <b>browser.urlbar.autoFill</b> as the preference name
<span style='color:blue'>7.</span> Enter <b>true</b> as the preference value
<span style='color:blue'>8.</span> Restart Firefox.
Worked for me, in-line autocomplete with no hitches whatsoever. I'll try and get you an answer to that second problem after my exams, I should be revising. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still nothing on the Visual styles though, but meh its just a minor inconvenience I guess.