<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+May 22 2004, 01:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ May 22 2004, 01:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How many players dropped within the first minute (because they joined the server to play NS:C not NS) is not accounted for.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The PJ (the server) has been encouraging classic NS gameplay over CO gameplay for quite some time. Most of our regulars and frequent players appreciate this, and come here to play specifically expecting this when they join. We truly do get a *wide* diversification of players on the server, from the top clan players, to the average joe pubber, to the brand-new-just-downloaded-NS-named-(2)NSPlayer player, ... to, umm, myself... :-)
Some nights all you get are some of NS's best players, competing closely with one another round after round, and other nights (though, granted, not so much over the weekends) you do get the players who wonder aloud how you're supposed to "buy" weapons. (ugh)
So, discounting player counts shifting dramatically during NS games is probably not as significant on this server in particular, as it would be for, say, CO maps. For CO games you may very well have a valid concern on this, though! I.e., three people in the server, one drops, and game ends. Once the server has more than 12 players, though, as zzSleeper said, we do primarily feature NS maps on the server (thanks to the awesome new mapcycle.txt functionality!)
<i>This thread</i>, though, was started originally to address the <b>10-minute CO timer</b>, and wasn't intended to address classic NS! (I only included those stats since I had them handy!) Probably, my including of these stats in the same post is probably what set this whole thread up for the skew. So, if anything, the stats of the <i>CO games</i> are what should be called into question on this particular server, since as of two weeks ago, classic NS maps are pretty much the predominant mode of gameplay here.
[Let me disclaim this by first stating that] Classic NS seems to pretty much be balanced, at least on the PJ, just by looking <b>blindly</b> at the stats. Yes, you get team stacking. Yes, you have a "pub" server that is open to all. But, you do have the law of averages which shows that over time, on a particular server, one team on a game tends to win more than the other. Maybe if we looked at a 12-slot server instead of an 18-slot server, you'd get different results. Or if we looked at any other server. However, I have yet to see anyone else posting any of these stats. Could we please get any other interested server ops to chime in here on this? I can provide help on how to construct some simple regexps for pulling this information out, if needed. It's pretty easy to do, as long as you have access to the logs.
Back on topic --- we're going to be upping the CO timelimit on the PJ server to 15 minutes, and hopefully will have some time (before the next patch that may or may not have already addressed this) to see if this makes any difference in balancing the win:loss ratio between the two teams. 10 minutes is seeming just a *touch* too short, as shown by the stats, and now by the poll we're running on our clan boards for our players to weigh their votes in on....
I can't say what the server actually runs, I'm just pointing out that these statistics alone show nothing.
Another thing that is not mentioned is how many wins are games under 2:00 (or 5:00 in classic or whatever cutoff time for a rush/insta-win game is to you).
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+May 22 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ May 22 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well that shoots the whole "Marines are too overpowered" out the window... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No. Marines are badly overpowered, but not on pubs where marines aim sucks.
Also, I think a lot of these stats have combat accounted for, where alien often rule since they are totally overpowered in combat (they can over-tech while marines cant reach the top of their techtree)
<!--QuoteBegin-coris+May 23 2004, 02:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coris @ May 23 2004, 02:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+May 22 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ May 22 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well that shoots the whole "Marines are too overpowered" out the window... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. Marines are badly overpowered, but not on pubs where marines aim sucks.
Also, I think a lot of these stats have combat accounted for, where alien often rule since they are totally overpowered in combat (they can over-tech while marines cant reach the top of their techtree) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, it unfortunatly all comes down to players, and you can't balance those, not by tweaking the game anyway. The team with the better players is going to win. Having the best commander in the world helps, but if the field marines are utter carp, they will still lose. (assuming the kharra team is made up of players at the commanders skill level)
Comments
The PJ (the server) has been encouraging classic NS gameplay over CO gameplay for quite some time. Most of our regulars and frequent players appreciate this, and come here to play specifically expecting this when they join. We truly do get a *wide* diversification of players on the server, from the top clan players, to the average joe pubber, to the brand-new-just-downloaded-NS-named-(2)NSPlayer player, ... to, umm, myself... :-)
Some nights all you get are some of NS's best players, competing closely with one another round after round, and other nights (though, granted, not so much over the weekends) you do get the players who wonder aloud how you're supposed to "buy" weapons. (ugh)
So, discounting player counts shifting dramatically during NS games is probably not as significant on this server in particular, as it would be for, say, CO maps. For CO games you may very well have a valid concern on this, though! I.e., three people in the server, one drops, and game ends. Once the server has more than 12 players, though, as zzSleeper said, we do primarily feature NS maps on the server (thanks to the awesome new mapcycle.txt functionality!)
<i>This thread</i>, though, was started originally to address the <b>10-minute CO timer</b>, and wasn't intended to address classic NS! (I only included those stats since I had them handy!) Probably, my including of these stats in the same post is probably what set this whole thread up for the skew. So, if anything, the stats of the <i>CO games</i> are what should be called into question on this particular server, since as of two weeks ago, classic NS maps are pretty much the predominant mode of gameplay here.
[Let me disclaim this by first stating that] Classic NS seems to pretty much be balanced, at least on the PJ, just by looking <b>blindly</b> at the stats. Yes, you get team stacking. Yes, you have a "pub" server that is open to all. But, you do have the law of averages which shows that over time, on a particular server, one team on a game tends to win more than the other. Maybe if we looked at a 12-slot server instead of an 18-slot server, you'd get different results. Or if we looked at any other server. However, I have yet to see anyone else posting any of these stats. Could we please get any other interested server ops to chime in here on this? I can provide help on how to construct some simple regexps for pulling this information out, if needed. It's pretty easy to do, as long as you have access to the logs.
Back on topic --- we're going to be upping the CO timelimit on the PJ server to 15 minutes, and hopefully will have some time (before the next patch that may or may not have already addressed this) to see if this makes any difference in balancing the win:loss ratio between the two teams. 10 minutes is seeming just a *touch* too short, as shown by the stats, and now by the poll we're running on our clan boards for our players to weigh their votes in on....
-f!
Another thing that is not mentioned is how many wins are games under 2:00 (or 5:00 in classic or whatever cutoff time for a rush/insta-win game is to you).
<a href='http://nsstats.warmfuzzyland.com/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://nsstats.warmfuzzyland.com/maps.php</a>
<a href='http://cs-stat.medialt.ru/psychostatsns/maps.html' target='_blank'>http://cs-stat.medialt.ru/psychostatsns/maps.html</a>
<a href='http://dexworld.org/stats/ns/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://dexworld.org/stats/ns/maps.php</a>
<a href='http://stats.dssghq.net/ns/maps.html' target='_blank'>http://stats.dssghq.net/ns/maps.html</a>
<a href='http://ns.clanhk.org/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://ns.clanhk.org/maps.php</a>
Some of these have combat included. You might have to scroll down to see some of the original NS stats.
No. Marines are badly overpowered, but not on pubs where marines aim sucks.
Also, I think a lot of these stats have combat accounted for, where alien often rule since they are totally overpowered in combat (they can over-tech while marines cant reach the top of their techtree)
No. Marines are badly overpowered, but not on pubs where marines aim sucks.
Also, I think a lot of these stats have combat accounted for, where alien often rule since they are totally overpowered in combat (they can over-tech while marines cant reach the top of their techtree) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, it unfortunatly all comes down to players, and you can't balance those, not by tweaking the game anyway. The team with the better players is going to win. Having the best commander in the world helps, but if the field marines are utter carp, they will still lose. (assuming the kharra team is made up of players at the commanders skill level)