Once again, knockback is representative of a wierd philosophy towards aliens resulting from inexperienced marines whining about it being difficult to kill aliens.
I personally believe that quite a bit of this has to do with combat mode. Combat mode needed slightly nerfed aliens so that the marines could actually take them down. With exception of the poorly thought up combat spawn system, it's actually a very fun game to play.
However, classic NS is a totally different story. The rules of classic NS are completely different than combat rules. The problem is that the developers have tried to create a balance in between both modes. What needs to happen is to have combat and classic be seperated more as games. To have combat mode have slightly nerfed aliens, but classic mode have normal (beefed up) aliens.
It totally blows to have the fear factor gone. I want to fear seeing the Onos because I know that there is no way I can rambo him to death like I can now with a level 3 shotty.
Yeah, also get rid of this completely <span style='font-family:Optima'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>BS</span></span></span> 10' knockback bug. It's really a morale killer for the game. What's the fun in trying to ambush a marine when you know you don't stand a chance after that first bite? Unless you're the lucky skulk with early game focus, at which point every marine is going "OMG F0CUS N00B!!!!" I really hate those type of marines.
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+May 22 2004, 09:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ May 22 2004, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally believe that quite a bit of this has to do with combat mode. Combat mode needed slightly nerfed aliens so that the marines could actually take them down. With exception of the poorly thought up combat spawn system, it's actually a very fun game to play.
However, classic NS is a totally different story. The rules of classic NS are completely different than combat rules. The problem is that the developers have tried to create a balance in between both modes. What needs to happen is to have combat and classic be seperated more as games. To have combat mode have slightly nerfed aliens, but classic mode have normal (beefed up) aliens.
It totally blows to have the fear factor gone. I want to fear seeing the Onos because I know that there is no way I can rambo him to death like I can now with a level 3 shotty. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with what you say. In combat since aliens can have multiple upgrades, it is best that aliens is nerfed a bit (e.g like this new Beta 4a). However, in combat. Aliens must be strengthen back. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Rue+May 22 2004, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ May 22 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe if one of the mods attached a poll to this thread asking yes/no to knockback
Say yes gets >60% then they take it out of beta5, I thought thats what beta's were for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There was already a poll about <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51177&hl=knockback' target='_blank'>knockback</a> made by Flayra. It was for 2.01 though.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rue+May 23 2004, 03:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ May 23 2004, 03:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe if one of the mods attached a poll to this thread asking yes/no to knockback
Say yes gets >60% then they take it out of beta5, I thought thats what beta's were for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...Why would buggy knockback be something people want? I mean, it's one of the most annoying things that are in the game at this point in time, and the only people who WOULD still want it are those who play only as marines.
And for future reference, if people ARE talking about knockback, assume they're talking about the buggy variant. Pushing a marine forward by a few inches isn't THAT bad.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room.
<!--QuoteBegin-sej+May 23 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sej @ May 23 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Perhaps NS was a game which was beautiful in its imperfections. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly how I feel... I miss the buggy 1.04 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Devs have done a superb job at balancing and de-bugging the game, but in the process it has lost a lot of it's original concept.
Get over 1.04, it wasn't good. The only upsides were the fade blink and the not-so-annoying lerks, and the fact that grenade launchers were used for building destruction, not for instant creation of no mans land. The paper aliens and the various fps dependancies outweighed all of that. If 1.04 was released again, but "fixed", aliens would die so fast it wouldn't be funny, what with the hitboxes. And HMGs would still do normal damage to buildings instead of half.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+May 23 2004, 11:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ May 23 2004, 11:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Get over 1.04, it wasn't good. The only upsides were the fade blink and the not-so-annoying lerks, and the fact that grenade launchers were used for building destruction, not for instant creation of no mans land. The paper aliens and the various fps dependancies outweighed all of that. If 1.04 was released again, but "fixed", aliens would die so fast it wouldn't be funny, what with the hitboxes. And HMGs would still do normal damage to buildings instead of half. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree...
The only thing I also find nice about 1.04 is the fear which marines have if they didn't timely get JP/HMGs. It's the FEAR!!! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I feel we should still work on the current Beta 4a but improve it just a bit more. Maybe either by nerfing marines a lil or beefing aliens a lil. You might not know... Maybe BOTH but that would be an overkill.
Hm. That alone might be enough to strengthen the skulk back to reasonable levels. If an ambush can be successful, it will encourage ambushing. Ambushing isn't really encouraged in beta 4 because skulks are just meat to happy-hopper marines whether it's from down the hall or right around the corner.
So if the skulk is back up to reasonable levels, will we see a corresponding fade nerf to keep Kharaa from totally dominating marines?
Personally i think it adds a certain dimension to skulking, some style, some finesse, and plus, try bunnyhopping down a corridor to a marine, and tell me if it makes a difference. No, you still end up flat on the dead stuck with a respawn screen.
Even with a fast bunnyhop i mostly ambush, and in clan matches, i never dream of bunnyhoppin into a singlemarine unless its a group attack with skulks hopping from different directions. Bunnyhoppin for me, is primarily a means of transportation.
Please end this myth of the bunnyhop. Because it really isnt that godly.
But i have the same problem as you. I cant help but feel ns has changed and some of the magic has gone, but at the same time i cant identify why i feel this way.
Perhaps NS was a game which was beautiful in its imperfections.
Comments
I personally believe that quite a bit of this has to do with combat mode. Combat mode needed slightly nerfed aliens so that the marines could actually take them down. With exception of the poorly thought up combat spawn system, it's actually a very fun game to play.
However, classic NS is a totally different story. The rules of classic NS are completely different than combat rules. The problem is that the developers have tried to create a balance in between both modes. What needs to happen is to have combat and classic be seperated more as games. To have combat mode have slightly nerfed aliens, but classic mode have normal (beefed up) aliens.
It totally blows to have the fear factor gone. I want to fear seeing the Onos because I know that there is no way I can rambo him to death like I can now with a level 3 shotty.
Yeah, also get rid of this completely <span style='font-family:Optima'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>BS</span></span></span> 10' knockback bug. It's really a morale killer for the game. What's the fun in trying to ambush a marine when you know you don't stand a chance after that first bite? Unless you're the lucky skulk with early game focus, at which point every marine is going "OMG F0CUS N00B!!!!" I really hate those type of marines.
However, classic NS is a totally different story. The rules of classic NS are completely different than combat rules. The problem is that the developers have tried to create a balance in between both modes. What needs to happen is to have combat and classic be seperated more as games. To have combat mode have slightly nerfed aliens, but classic mode have normal (beefed up) aliens.
It totally blows to have the fear factor gone. I want to fear seeing the Onos because I know that there is no way I can rambo him to death like I can now with a level 3 shotty. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with what you say. In combat since aliens can have multiple upgrades, it is best that aliens is nerfed a bit (e.g like this new Beta 4a). However, in combat. Aliens must be strengthen back. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Say yes gets >60% then they take it out of beta5, I thought thats what beta's were for?
Say yes gets >60% then they take it out of beta5, I thought thats what beta's were for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was already a poll about <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51177&hl=knockback' target='_blank'>knockback</a> made by Flayra. It was for 2.01 though.
Say yes gets >60% then they take it out of beta5, I thought thats what beta's were for? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Why would buggy knockback be something people want? I mean, it's one of the most annoying things that are in the game at this point in time, and the only people who WOULD still want it are those who play only as marines.
And for future reference, if people ARE talking about knockback, assume they're talking about the buggy variant. Pushing a marine forward by a few inches isn't THAT bad.
Resolved for beta 5.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
taken from <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0000004' target='_blank'>The Bug Database</a>
I mean, ahem. Nice to hear about the progress of beta 5. Yeah.
Resolved for beta 5.
The velocity adjustment is now cut to 1/10 normal if the player is in midair, so that the lack of friction doesn't cause them to be thrown across the entire room.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
taken from <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0000004' target='_blank'>The Bug Database</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HALLELUJAH!
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly how I feel... I miss the buggy 1.04 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Devs have done a superb job at balancing and de-bugging the game, but in the process it has lost a lot of it's original concept.
The paper aliens and the various fps dependancies outweighed all of that. If 1.04 was released again, but "fixed", aliens would die so fast it wouldn't be funny, what with the hitboxes. And HMGs would still do normal damage to buildings instead of half.
The paper aliens and the various fps dependancies outweighed all of that. If 1.04 was released again, but "fixed", aliens would die so fast it wouldn't be funny, what with the hitboxes. And HMGs would still do normal damage to buildings instead of half. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree...
The only thing I also find nice about 1.04 is the fear which marines have if they didn't timely get JP/HMGs. It's the FEAR!!! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I feel we should still work on the current Beta 4a but improve it just a bit more. Maybe either by nerfing marines a lil or beefing aliens a lil. You might not know... Maybe BOTH but that would be an overkill.
So if the skulk is back up to reasonable levels, will we see a corresponding fade nerf to keep Kharaa from totally dominating marines?
Personally i think it adds a certain dimension to skulking, some style, some finesse, and plus, try bunnyhopping down a corridor to a marine, and tell me if it makes a difference. No, you still end up flat on the dead stuck with a respawn screen.
Even with a fast bunnyhop i mostly ambush, and in clan matches, i never dream of bunnyhoppin into a singlemarine unless its a group attack with skulks hopping from different directions. Bunnyhoppin for me, is primarily a means of transportation.
Please end this myth of the bunnyhop. Because it really isnt that godly.
But i have the same problem as you. I cant help but feel ns has changed and some of the magic has gone, but at the same time i cant identify why i feel this way.
Perhaps NS was a game which was beautiful in its imperfections.