Sensory Chambers?

Waddy

<div class="IPBDescription">Why not build them from the start?</div>I have been playing NS for about a month now, and cloaking is one of favorite upgrades. On most servers though, I can not get it because no one drops a sensory chamber unless everything is going well. So I decided to drop one, and I got alot of "why did you drop a Sensory Chamber" and other stuff that is similar to that. So my question is: is there a negative to dropping a sensory chamber early on in the round? I have searched around other sites, but I found nothing about it.

Wither

Since the early games of 1.0, people decided DC -> MC -> SC is the best order to go. In 1.0 and it's patches, this was true. In 2.0 and 3.0 however, early sensory's not that horrible but people are still used to the old dc mc sc order. There's no real downside, but you can't get carapace or regen as a fade if you have sensory, which will cause you to die sooner.

Deranged

many people prefer defense off the start simply because carapace = just a bit more life, and since rines are usually upgrading as well it's worth it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

so ya people will get mad if you drop a sc first, however I've been on servers where there has been toss ups between mc and sc so hope you can drop one there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->..


I prefer the classic order myself though

Waddy

Thanks for explaining that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .

Wirhe

It's simple: when marines learn that your first chamber is any other than DC, they rush for electricity. Without regen fade or a second hive, it's as good as game over. Also, DC is absolutely necessary for every life-form. Lerks die of one shotgun blast, onos is too slow to lumber back to a hive, and fade needs regen as well; skulks can use that extra-AP too.

Second chamber, IMO, can be whatever you want. There is always some MC whiners on every server, so if you can bear it; just place the SC <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

(Myself, I'm too **** off to care; every time I ask SC or MC, someone goes gorge and places an MC. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> )

Mastodon

The kids just aren't l337 enough to go sensory first <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

V_MAN

SC requires a lot of teamwork and skill on the part of the aliens for it to work as a first hive upgrade unfortuantly the same level of team work isn't required by the marines to counter it. Motion tracking and a competant commander who can scan/place obs towers at key locations will make cloaking useless.

I've seen SC first work in clan wars tho but only because the other team playing as marines expected DC first, they countered it with MT of course but we maintained the upper hand long enough to get the second hive up and then get DCS.

john_sheu

SC first does require a fair bit of teamwork, for example gorges dropping forward SC's so skulks can go focus. I see a lot more SC first in clan games, scrims, and PUGs, for example.

But if you get the other players to stop flaming you for long enough to get a sensible reply out of them, the reason why they (the more experienced players) are mad is, often, not just because you dropped SC. (We, the experienced players <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> are good enough to take what comes, and often enjoy an SC game once in a while). The problem is that people don't usually <b>ask</b> before they drop SC. DC is the <i>de facto</i> default, anything else usually requires a bit of asking around and consensus. So ask before you drop SC; the real rewarding games are when everybody agrees!

-Cheers, and welcome to NS!

Maveric

Every version prior to this one dug everyone into the D>M>S pattern you see before you. But aye, DCs are far to valuable to be replaced; regeneration and carapace will always be #1, because they do their job brilliantly, and can only truely be countered by bigger marine weapons and upgrades.


Cloaking is, however, devistating in Combat games. Coupled with focus, silence, regen and carapace (6 points total... 3 more and you can fade; but you'd be level 10 at that point) you can become rather deadly. Again, please note that carapace and regeneration are in that forumula.

amarc

On larger maps Sensory first has some nice advantages - it makes it alot easier to skulks to defend your resource nodes and Scent of Fear gives the team a nice logistical advantage. The downside is that Sensory requires a lot of teamwork: you can't just rely on your Fades to secure and protect that second Hive. As a rule don't drop Sensory unless your team is communicating very well, but if they are then SC first is a great way to gain the upper hand.

Petco

Like people say.. SCs don't really help the higher life forms such as fades or onoses or even gorges. DC > MC > SC is or MC > DC > SC is best possible ways esp for higher life forms. Why people hate SC as first? Well it's just that countering cloaking and focus can be simple but thats usally not why people choose not to put sc first. Putting sc first usally weakens the power of higher lifeforms. People just think that DC and MC first is always the best way esp for higher lifeforms (As I repeated several times). Why pick DC as first chamber? Because lets say 4 guys out of 12 is saving for a fade and their are 4 gorges on the team 3 are building rts and securing and the last one is saving for hive. Then the gorge puts the hive up while 4 other guys are fades. Ok fade with cloaking is for a 1 person encounter. Fade with focus is a one person encounter. And SOF well I don't know. Ok ignore everything I said and main point about not picking SC or maybe sometimes MC (But people still perfer MC more than SC as first) is because well SC upgrades and so can be countered such as observatorys in main places, rines sticking in groups, electrify RTs, and so. Focus is just armor 1 and SCs dont really help much in higher lifeforms. Well thas why people don't pick SC as first chamber in my opinion but when 2.0 just came out aliens always got sc and they won because new cloaking features and so and marines and their commander prob don't know much on countering it. Also SC is not picked because of some team work requirements like people said but it's like you have to get a 2nd hive secure as soon as you can and put down the hive and put down the DC because even with SC + DC you have a fair chance of winning just as DC and mc. I've been on aliens where some guy dropped a MC on first hive and then some guy accidently dropped a sc but we won...

Wirhe

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like people say.. SCs don't really help the higher life forms such as fades or onoses or even gorges. DC > MC > SC is or MC > DC > SC is best possible ways esp for higher life forms.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

SC is not as useful to onos and fade as it is to others. Easy conclusion: if 75% of the team benefits at the expense of that 25%, it is a very good option -not other way around. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Waddy

Thanks again for all the help, but I have one more question about chambers in general. If you have only one hive, can you build more than 1 type of upgrade chamber, or are you limited to the amount you can build. It is probably a noob question, but I played a round yesterday where there were Chambers all over placed almost randomly. Can you build more than 1 per hive? Thanks for any more help.

gazOzz

<!--QuoteBegin-Tails+May 10 2004, 03:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tails @ May 10 2004, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like people say.. SCs don't really help the higher life forms such as fades or onoses or even gorges. DC > MC > SC is or MC > DC > SC is best possible ways esp for higher life forms.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

SC is not as useful to onos and fade as it is to others. Easy conclusion: if 75% of the team benefits at the expense of that 25%, it is a very good option -not other way around. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ofcourse this is only true; if your team knows how to win without higher lifeforms...

john_sheu

<!--QuoteBegin-Waddy+May 10 2004, 09:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Waddy @ May 10 2004, 09:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks again for all the help, but I have one more question about chambers in general. If you have only one hive, can you build more than 1 type of upgrade chamber, or are you limited to the amount you can build. It is probably a noob question, but I played a round yesterday where there were Chambers all over placed almost randomly. Can you build more than 1 per hive? Thanks for any more help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No problemo, man <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

You can build however many chambers as long as you have the res (and as long as the room limit isn't reached). However, they must all be of the same type/two types/three types if you have one/two/three hives. At the beginning of the round you start with one hive; thus you can only drop 1 type of chamber. Once it's dropped, you're locked into that type---that's the fuss about SC or DC first. A second hive means a second type, and so on.

-Cheers, John Sheu

Wirhe

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ofcourse this is only true; if your team knows how to win without higher lifeforms...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like missing one, specific chamber would make those lifeforms obsolete... NOT. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

gazOzz

Instead; you have given more than 1 hives... And ability to collect enough Res to put the second one up soon... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Wirhe

Eh... I didn't understand a word of what you just said. What do you mean? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->

gazOzz

nevermind... Ive totally misunderstood your previous posts... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

I mean SC first is one hell of a tactic; gives you early game domination of map... But only if your team knows how to play efficient and someone puts up second hive really quick...

Wirhe

Yes, DC is too important, but we were talking about SC as a second chamber (instead of the regular MC).

Buggy

Sensory on publics doesnt work, because there is a severe lack of communication / game-based knowledge on how to exactly play them.

Wirhe

Easy solution: let them practise more. Usually, when SC comes in, the game is over already and marines are camping in their base. People don't really get to know how useful SoF or Cloak are, always rushing for cele or adre. It can, and will, work once people just bother to use them -instead of their regular ones. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Haze

Sensory is a whole new playing style, relying on stealth and ambushes from the aliens. Defense allows the aliens to get in the marines faces, while movement relys on quick attack, as well as unheard sneak attacks.

So its just a whole new playing style people are not willng to adapt to, I love sensory quite personally.

Dantemss

I only get mad at people who build sc first if they build only ONE sc. Focus is useless and cloaking takes too much time if you only have 1 sc. So, instead of going permagorge and placing lots of scs, building an effective sensory net throughout the map, some people drop just ONE sc at the hive, which is useless, unless the marines rush it (not very likely). If people do it right, it's fine for me.

Jared101

i think the prime reason sc is last is because most people prefer having celerity for there fades
the DC is dropped first so aliens still have a chance with regen fades even if noone drops 2nd hive till 10min
ive always tried to get people to mc start,then drop a quick 2nd hive so fades got regen

but this is all if you dont have Bob-of-Lust`NST on your team,cause once he goes fade its gg money

v4rA

Dcs allow fades to live longer, mcs allows you to defend the second hive, but scs ¿? , really the cloaking advantage is not so important, and if marines get two obs, and start scanning, your scs are going to die, + that if u use scs, u need to build them at the begginning of the game, that means that u nee dto avoid 3 gorges of getting killed in 3 important positions, and against a competent marine team thats impossible

Salvation

<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+May 9 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ May 9 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since the early games of 1.0, people decided DC -> MC -> SC is the best order to go. In 1.0 and it's patches, this was true. In 2.0 and 3.0 however, early sensory's not that horrible but people are still used to the old dc mc sc order. There's no real downside, but you can't get carapace or regen as a fade if you have sensory, which will cause you to die sooner. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
but you can kill them faster

its a trade off, to kill hard and fast early game, and getting that 2nd hive up asap

its usefull if used right

Wirhe

@ Vara

You again assumet that obs + scan make SC useless. If you know that there will be scanning and an obs, choose focus or SoF, and if not; Cloak is a blessing for a skulk. Like said; you should learn how to use them instead of that whine-always-MC. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Petco

Hmm I just never notice but MC is like the best first chamber you can get. MC does require some team oraganization and people to listen to you though such as who is saving for hive and so. As soon as you can build a hive build it and if it gets under attack quickly use a mc to go there and so until it's built and then put up a dc. MC > DC is pretty fine as long as you have an organized team.

Swiftspear

RULE: Do NOT drop sensory first under any cercumstance without consulting your team. If your team doesn't want sensory first there is an extreamly good chance that they suck with it and it will lose you the game. Even if they refuse sensory and you still choose to drop it, make sure they know that is what is happening. If you drop only one sensory and no one else can afford the other two because they have already spent thier res on nodes it is an instant gg, and I have seen it happen many times.