<!--QuoteBegin-Samah+May 12 2004, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Samah @ May 12 2004, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiosity Trevelyan, can you bhop? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes... but when i do it i hold down forward. (which i know is wrong :-P )
Also my ISP has uploading issues... where I will spike once in a while and I wont notice any lag... but to the marines they see me teleporting everywhere. This has gotten me kicked and almost banned several times because i was suspected of speed hacking or something. So ususally I just perma gorge... they dont move as fast and i dont get kicked from servers. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thats gliding. Just try it as a Gorge first Trev, if you can Glide more or less you can probably figure out how to release forward and BHop as a Gorge. You'll need to look down and hit crouch after the first jump in the case of a Skulk, making it more annoying. Meh.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+May 13 2004, 12:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ May 13 2004, 12:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Samah+May 12 2004, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Samah @ May 12 2004, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiosity Trevelyan, can you bhop? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes... but when i do it i hold down forward. (which i know is wrong :-P )
Also my ISP has uploading issues... where I will spike once in a while and I wont notice any lag... but to the marines they see me teleporting everywhere. This has gotten me kicked and almost banned several times because i was suspected of speed hacking or something. So ususally I just perma gorge... they dont move as fast and i dont get kicked from servers. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if your holding foward you aren't bunnyhopping hands down. and btw, about the 32 button combination post on i think...page 3? how can you compare gestating to a higher life form with gaining speed? you dont HAVE to bunnyhop. why would you have to do a mad **** unrealistic button combo to gestate, you make no sence...that or you just can't compare things properly. did you also know strafing left to right rapididly while moving foward as marine increases your speed? oh what is that a 32 button combination? no, its a elementry 2 button left/right/left/right sequence. cl_showspeed 1.
3. Bunnyhopping means advancing without pressing forward
4. If you turn to the left, you press left strafe, when you turn to the right you pres right strafe.
5. Try to jump exactly when you are going to touch the floor.
6. The mousemovement its like drawing a rainbow, from left to right.
7. You can strafe to jumps to the left (or 3 or 4) or to the right, just keep in mind that if you jump with left strafe you cannot look to your right, THIS IS GOOD FOR TURNING
8. Dont make yankee moves, try to make slowly and constant mouse moves.
3. Bunnyhopping means advancing without pressing forward
4. If you turn to the left, you press left strafe, when you turn to the right you pres right strafe.
5. Try to jump exactly when you are going to touch the floor.
6. The mousemovement its like drawing a rainbow, from left to right.
7. You can strafe to jumps to the left (or 3 or 4) or to the right, just keep in mind that if you jump with left strafe you cannot look to your right, THIS IS GOOD FOR TURNING
8. Dont make yankee moves, try to make slowly and constant mouse moves.
THATS IT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To bad people still cant learn it even if its so easy. I think the best way if you really need help is to load 2.0 and a _special script. This will help you get the movement part down without worrying about jumping. After movement worry about jumping. I have a _special script i think if somebody wants it.
For god's sakes it's not THAT hard. It's hard to know what to do if you just READ about it. You need to first person spectate someone who's doing it. If you know someone at a lan party who can do it, go watch their finger movements. And you don't need to look down as skulk - it gives you a very minor speed increase, which is gonna get nerfed back down to 1.7x when you land anyway. And yeah Trevelyan if you're holding down forward it's NOT bunnyhopping, it's just queuing up jumps. As soon as you hold down forward, you're killing your left/right air control. Here's a good way to learn to bhop on local servers (although this would seriously screw you up online). Make it so that your crouch key disables your forward key, or even better, binds it to kill <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> You'll soon learn not to press it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
alias +killcrouch "+duck;bind w kill" alias -killcrouch "-duck;bind w +forward" bind ctrl +killcrouch
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+May 23 2004, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ May 23 2004, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> anyone ever think that I dont want to learn? its an exploit in my eyes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh, well too bad
<span style='font-family:Courier'><span style='color:orange'><span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>None of us were ever born with the natural ability to bhop properly, we have all learnt to do so, so instead of whining how unfair it is, go learn it. Its not that hard, and if u cant do it (even with a script), then u should either stop whining or stop playing, cuz its not gonna be changed. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways, its not like it makes u into an ?B3R|nv|nCaBl3 "clanner", it merely gives u the ability to engage a marine more easily, and on clangames all it does is make U as fast as the others. Now, putting BH into the manual wouldnt do much, as u couldnt possibly discribe it easier there than on the 100s of post or webpages u could find IF ud spend 5 minutes on the googlebar. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> </span></span></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Act Chill+May 6 2004, 08:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Act Chill @ May 6 2004, 08:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On 1v1 bh will own the marine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sorry to flame ya but...
say a newb is bhing down corridor and low and behold a marine is at the other end... he bh's all the way down and when he reachs marine he bh straight past... if bh could kill the marines it would, but biting and useing ur mouse button does... if ur new to the whole genre and hear that bunny hoping 'ownz' ppl, dont do it... beside we get better by going up against ppl who are better than us... its how we humans learn, unless ur a freak or somethin
Just wondering, if Trev's suggestion was already in place, that is bhop was gone and the aliens were all slightly faster, would anybody be able to give a good reason why bhop should be added to the game?
<!--QuoteBegin-BOBDOLOL+Jun 2 2004, 09:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BOBDOLOL @ Jun 2 2004, 09:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Putting it in the manual would be a great idea. Maybe finally people would stop whining about it since it'll be "official" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...and suddenly everyone starts using this in other HL mods which don't have anti-bhop code, and this thread starts up in those forums. It's a little more believable for a skulk to bhop than it is for a humanoid (ie. TFC, etc). Just don't go slapping an "it's ok" or an "it's not ok" sticker on it, because all it's going to do is start flame wars about whether it was the right decision. Also if you've ever gotten heavily into the clanning scene you'll know that a large majority of the professional players can all bhop. Again it's not a necessity. But if there are anti-bhop mechanics added to NS, it's going to **** off a very large portion of the long-time players. That's not to say that these players couldn't adapt to play without it, but they shouldn't be forced to change their playing style because the devs said "you're not allowed to bhop".
Samah people have been bhopping in TFC for years and it's not in the manual (afaik) and nobody whines (anymore, was a different story when it was uncapped). I seriously don't see why putting it in the manual is such a big point for some people. People bhop in HLDM, CS (used to), and every other HL mod. I don't understand what is wrong with the NS community, why they are so resistant to a 'exploit' which has been around for years and has been accepted.
<!--QuoteBegin-BOBDOLOL+May 6 2004, 09:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BOBDOLOL @ May 6 2004, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> um no, 1v1 bhop will not own the marine
a skulk would never ever win against a skilled marine when facing him head on <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, he can. Did this in 2.0. In fact, they had buddies too
<!--QuoteBegin-e.Nadagast+Jun 2 2004, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Jun 2 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ? it's fun and adds more to the game... why not live with it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As many people have noted, not exactly their idea of fun. And say what you want, without MWheel or a triplejump, BHopping is extremely tedious.
<!--QuoteBegin-e.Nadagast+Jun 3 2004, 06:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Jun 3 2004, 06:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Samah people have been bhopping in TFC for years and it's not in the manual (afaik) and nobody whines (anymore, was a different story when it was uncapped). I seriously don't see why putting it in the manual is such a big point for some people. People bhop in HLDM, CS (used to), and every other HL mod. I don't understand what is wrong with the NS community, why they are so resistant to a 'exploit' which has been around for years and has been accepted.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know people bhop in TFC (previously in this thread or another there was a link to a tutorial on bhopping in TFC), which is why I used it as an example here. If it has been finally accepted (in a manner of speaking) as part of the game, without being in the manual, why should NS be any different? TFC would have more reason to remove bunnyhopping than NS (ie. an alien moving like a mofo is a little more believable than a guy in full armour with a bigass gun).
And yes I'd also like to know why a lot (most) of the NS community complain about bunnyhopping. It sounds to me like it's mostly bitterness because so many other players can, and they can't. It's like the "beautiness is on the inside" that a "aesthetically-challenged" person says, or the "it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game" that the person who lost says. (Although I agree with the latter point - I'd rather lose in a good game than win in a unbalanced/unfair game).
1st: i m not saying bhop should be removed NOR bhop should stay. Its not that often that u see it, and that you can say "I just died ONLY because he behopped" is only once a month or such. The following is nevertheless my opinion and observation on that theme:
Probably the bhop is not that widely accepted as it gives a advantage ONLY to total freaks. The smaller the community the bigger the percentage of freaks = the more accepted it is. This is why you can use it without any complains on the mod you play only with ur 5 best friends and noone else and why Bhop did get removed in CS.
I personally know noone that can bhop and me an my friends play hl and its mods for years now (since HL exist in fact). Point is... i just dont know anyone that had the time AND the patience to spend 30 hours to learn 1 move when there were so much more important things to do like-> getting drunk / shool / f**k / gettin Drunk/ find a job / getting drunk / F**k and so on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (its called Life and it takes like 80% of my time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Bunnyhoping is not intuition nor reaction nor aim nor tactics nor teamwork nor map/player-experience (which are all the things that make a egoshooter for me), its just stupid "robot-like" timing that you have to practice over and over and over again. // similar example for such a thing: you could combine the game with a // feature that allows you only to look up/down when you type // "a<?lsgjspdoijfq?l2049u" in exact 0.3 seconds every excact 12.9 seconds // manually. you could still play (doom-like 2 dimentional) without doin it but // it gives u an advantage if you invest the hours and learn to do that.
Just my 2 $
PS: win/loose theme.. i often feelin like a winner when i loose the game but know i did my best and prob. ended with a 50:10 score as well.
I didnt "invent the 30 hours", its in every guide out there that you need alot of practice, and to maintain the hopping even while engaged in combat (makes of course no sense in ns) needs even alot more practice. The guides are all correct as there is no difference in the exploit no matter if you play cs, tfc, doc, ns, hl-single player, whatever.
I never tried longer than an hour, but couldnt even time the jump right more than 10 times in a row (and that was without tryin to go anywhere exept in a circle). (of course that was in cs 1.1, perhaps NS is far easier)
<!--QuoteBegin-Samah+Jun 2 2004, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Samah @ Jun 2 2004, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's not to say that these players couldn't adapt to play without it, but they shouldn't be forced to change their playing style because the devs said "you're not allowed to bhop".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, if the devs said "you're not allowed to bhop" I think that's a perfect reason why hoppers should change their playstyle. It's probably also the only reason that they would.. and even then, only if backed up by the code that enforced it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes I'd also like to know why a lot (most) of the NS community complain about bunnyhopping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're wrong about it being because most of them can't. Most people can't master fade-flying/weapon switch either, hell, a lot of people can't even devour with any consistency, but you don't see such complaints about that. I think a large part of the complaints stem from the realization that bhopping is not natural to the game.
This is why I don't like it. I don't like any "skill" that requires me to edit things outside of the game. I program to work, I play games to have fun. I think if I felt that people who were bhopping were doing so (or perhaps even able to do so) on a vanilla install of NS, no funky binds, no config editing, I'd have much less difficulty with it, ie, if it was a skill that people could pick up without knowing a single console or config command.
As it is though, <b>every</b> thread I've read explaining bhopping always starts off with "get yourself this bhop/3jump/mousewheel script.." or in short, going beyond the game and being basically required to set up your configuration in a certain manner in order to use this "skill".
Beyond that, however perhaps if <b>most</b> of the NS community complains about bhopping, maybe that's reason enough, regardless of what's behind it?
I haven't yet seen a decent response to my question. If it wasn't in already, what reasons would people have for putting it in?
I've seen the 'fun' reason dished out, however the fun it provides is for such a limited few who can manage it. Oddly, it was taken from the marines and now that the initial outcry is gone, I don't see people pining for it. People are asking for 1.04 or 2.0, but I never see them citing marine bunnyhop as why they want to play those. So was it really that much fun?
I've seen the reason that it allows differentiation by skill. Except then there's the argument that bhopping isn't really the skill, it's being able to maneuver/fight etc. while bhopping that's the skill. Plus, as stated above, bhopping is more of a text-editor/google-based skill than anything else. So if bhopping isn't really the skill involved, why not ditch it, boost everybody's speed and let them all learn how to maneuver/fight at the new levels.
Actually, Kwil, I think that there's a lot of people who <b>don't</b> use funky binds for bhopping - I know I don't. I also know, however, that unless you really master it, it's hardly even a buff, and if you do, well, then you've earned it.
As for what it adds to the game; well, another skill, I'd argue, although it is a bit obscure, since it can be made up for with fancy commands and binds, etc. Also, it actually amuses me when I see someone who really <i>does</i> master bhopping, and knows how to use it; I was pubbing a bit, on ns_veil, and standing in the part of topo nearest MS. I heard a skulk coming, and suddenly he flew out of the doorway and at me, at a tremendous pace, then I died. Got him nailed enough that a teammate killed him right after he got me, but it was still the fastest bhopper I have ever seen (if it actually was bhopping, 'cause <i>god</i> that skulk was going fast), and it thrilled me that some people actually take the time to learn stuff like this... I mean, come on, if he actually puts so much effort into learning it, shouldn't he reap the rewards?
Oh, and about the 30hr-learning curve: Seems I'm a natural talent too, it took me less than one minute to catch the basics, then about four more minutes to learn basic bhopping around maps? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is a very big difference of speed players get from bhoping...i say half of ppl that think they are bhoping, are really gaining a lot of speed. Ive seen less than 10 players on the net that have really good speed.
It took me 5 mins to understand bhoping, 3 days to be master...but i'm still mastering it more and more everyday. But it does make a lot of noise, so silence is good, but celerity's better.
Clerity with bhop is really good everything exept lerk...bhop should'nt work on onos.
Comments
yes... but when i do it i hold down forward. (which i know is wrong :-P )
Also my ISP has uploading issues... where I will spike once in a while and I wont notice any lag... but to the marines they see me teleporting everywhere. This has gotten me kicked and almost banned several times because i was suspected of speed hacking or something. So ususally I just perma gorge... they dont move as fast and i dont get kicked from servers. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes... but when i do it i hold down forward. (which i know is wrong :-P )
Also my ISP has uploading issues... where I will spike once in a while and I wont notice any lag... but to the marines they see me teleporting everywhere. This has gotten me kicked and almost banned several times because i was suspected of speed hacking or something. So ususally I just perma gorge... they dont move as fast and i dont get kicked from servers. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if your holding foward you aren't bunnyhopping hands down. and btw, about the 32 button combination post on i think...page 3? how can you compare gestating to a higher life form with gaining speed? you dont HAVE to bunnyhop. why would you have to do a mad **** unrealistic button combo to gestate, you make no sence...that or you just can't compare things properly. did you also know strafing left to right rapididly while moving foward as marine increases your speed? oh what is that a 32 button combination? no, its a elementry 2 button left/right/left/right sequence. cl_showspeed 1.
pardon my spelling...
1. bind mousewheel up to jump
2. Hold pressed the duck button
3. Bunnyhopping means advancing without pressing forward
4. If you turn to the left, you press left strafe, when you turn to the right you pres right strafe.
5. Try to jump exactly when you are going to touch the floor.
6. The mousemovement its like drawing a rainbow, from left to right.
7. You can strafe to jumps to the left (or 3 or 4) or to the right, just keep in mind that if you jump with left strafe you cannot look to your right, THIS IS GOOD FOR TURNING
8. Dont make yankee moves, try to make slowly and constant mouse moves.
THATS IT
1. bind mousewheel up to jump
2. Hold pressed the duck button
3. Bunnyhopping means advancing without pressing forward
4. If you turn to the left, you press left strafe, when you turn to the right you pres right strafe.
5. Try to jump exactly when you are going to touch the floor.
6. The mousemovement its like drawing a rainbow, from left to right.
7. You can strafe to jumps to the left (or 3 or 4) or to the right, just keep in mind that if you jump with left strafe you cannot look to your right, THIS IS GOOD FOR TURNING
8. Dont make yankee moves, try to make slowly and constant mouse moves.
THATS IT<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To bad people still cant learn it even if its so easy. I think the best way if you really need help is to load 2.0 and a _special script. This will help you get the movement part down without worrying about jumping. After movement worry about jumping. I have a _special script i think if somebody wants it.
It's hard to know what to do if you just READ about it. You need to first person spectate someone who's doing it. If you know someone at a lan party who can do it, go watch their finger movements. And you don't need to look down as skulk - it gives you a very minor speed increase, which is gonna get nerfed back down to 1.7x when you land anyway.
And yeah Trevelyan if you're holding down forward it's NOT bunnyhopping, it's just queuing up jumps. As soon as you hold down forward, you're killing your left/right air control.
Here's a good way to learn to bhop on local servers (although this would seriously screw you up online). Make it so that your crouch key disables your forward key, or even better, binds it to kill <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You'll soon learn not to press it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
alias +killcrouch "+duck;bind w kill"
alias -killcrouch "-duck;bind w +forward"
bind ctrl +killcrouch
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oh, well too bad
Its not that hard, and if u cant do it (even with a script), then u should either stop whining or stop playing, cuz its not gonna be changed. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways, its not like it makes u into an ?B3R|nv|nCaBl3 "clanner", it merely gives u the ability to engage a marine more easily, and on clangames all it does is make U as fast as the others. Now, putting BH into the manual wouldnt do much, as u couldnt possibly discribe it easier there than on the 100s of post or webpages u could find IF ud spend 5 minutes on the googlebar. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> </span></span></span>
sorry to flame ya but...
say a newb is bhing down corridor and low and behold a marine is at the other end... he bh's all the way down and when he reachs marine he bh straight past... if bh could kill the marines it would, but biting and useing ur mouse button does... if ur new to the whole genre and hear that bunny hoping 'ownz' ppl, dont do it... beside we get better by going up against ppl who are better than us... its how we humans learn, unless ur a freak or somethin
...and suddenly everyone starts using this in other HL mods which don't have anti-bhop code, and this thread starts up in those forums. It's a little more believable for a skulk to bhop than it is for a humanoid (ie. TFC, etc). Just don't go slapping an "it's ok" or an "it's not ok" sticker on it, because all it's going to do is start flame wars about whether it was the right decision.
Also if you've ever gotten heavily into the clanning scene you'll know that a large majority of the professional players can all bhop. Again it's not a necessity. But if there are anti-bhop mechanics added to NS, it's going to **** off a very large portion of the long-time players. That's not to say that these players couldn't adapt to play without it, but they shouldn't be forced to change their playing style because the devs said "you're not allowed to bhop".
a skulk would never ever win against a skilled marine when facing him head on <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, he can. Did this in 2.0. In fact, they had buddies too
As many people have noted, not exactly their idea of fun. And say what you want, without MWheel or a triplejump, BHopping is extremely tedious.
I know people bhop in TFC (previously in this thread or another there was a link to a tutorial on bhopping in TFC), which is why I used it as an example here. If it has been finally accepted (in a manner of speaking) as part of the game, without being in the manual, why should NS be any different? TFC would have more reason to remove bunnyhopping than NS (ie. an alien moving like a mofo is a little more believable than a guy in full armour with a bigass gun).
And yes I'd also like to know why a lot (most) of the NS community complain about bunnyhopping. It sounds to me like it's mostly bitterness because so many other players can, and they can't. It's like the "beautiness is on the inside" that a "aesthetically-challenged" person says, or the "it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game" that the person who lost says.
(Although I agree with the latter point - I'd rather lose in a good game than win in a unbalanced/unfair game).
The following is nevertheless my opinion and observation on that theme:
Probably the bhop is not that widely accepted as it gives a advantage ONLY to total freaks. The smaller the community the bigger the percentage of freaks = the more accepted it is. This is why you can use it without any complains on the mod you play only with ur 5 best friends and noone else and why Bhop did get removed in CS.
I personally know noone that can bhop and me an my friends play hl and its mods for years now (since HL exist in fact). Point is... i just dont know anyone that had the time AND the patience to spend 30 hours to learn 1 move when there were so much more important things to do like-> getting drunk / shool / f**k / gettin Drunk/ find a job / getting drunk / F**k and so on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (its called Life and it takes like 80% of my time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Bunnyhoping is not intuition nor reaction nor aim nor tactics nor teamwork nor map/player-experience (which are all the things that make a egoshooter for me), its just stupid "robot-like" timing that you have to practice over and over and over again.
// similar example for such a thing: you could combine the game with a
// feature that allows you only to look up/down when you type
// "a<?lsgjspdoijfq?l2049u" in exact 0.3 seconds every excact 12.9 seconds
// manually. you could still play (doom-like 2 dimentional) without doin it but
// it gives u an advantage if you invest the hours and learn to do that.
Just my 2 $
PS: win/loose theme.. i often feelin like a winner when i loose the game but know i did my best and prob. ended with a 50:10 score as well.
/Edit: some spelling
Regards
Deagle
I didnt "invent the 30 hours", its in every guide out there that you need alot of practice, and to maintain the hopping even while engaged in combat (makes of course no sense in ns) needs even alot more practice. The guides are all correct as there is no difference in the exploit no matter if you play cs, tfc, doc, ns, hl-single player, whatever.
<a href='http://members.tripod.com/evolution32/news.htm' target='_blank'>http://members.tripod.com/evolution32/news.htm</a>
that i found first try.
Says 15h to get startet.
I never tried longer than an hour, but couldnt even time the jump right more than 10 times in a row (and that was without tryin to go anywhere exept in a circle).
(of course that was in cs 1.1, perhaps NS is far easier)
Regards
Steve
Actually, if the devs said "you're not allowed to bhop" I think that's a perfect reason why hoppers should change their playstyle. It's probably also the only reason that they would.. and even then, only if backed up by the code that enforced it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes I'd also like to know why a lot (most) of the NS community complain about bunnyhopping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're wrong about it being because most of them can't. Most people can't master fade-flying/weapon switch either, hell, a lot of people can't even devour with any consistency, but you don't see such complaints about that. I think a large part of the complaints stem from the realization that bhopping is not natural to the game.
This is why I don't like it. I don't like any "skill" that requires me to edit things outside of the game. I program to work, I play games to have fun. I think if I felt that people who were bhopping were doing so (or perhaps even able to do so) on a vanilla install of NS, no funky binds, no config editing, I'd have much less difficulty with it, ie, if it was a skill that people could pick up without knowing a single console or config command.
As it is though, <b>every</b> thread I've read explaining bhopping always starts off with "get yourself this bhop/3jump/mousewheel script.." or in short, going beyond the game and being basically required to set up your configuration in a certain manner in order to use this "skill".
Beyond that, however perhaps if <b>most</b> of the NS community complains about bhopping, maybe that's reason enough, regardless of what's behind it?
I haven't yet seen a decent response to my question. If it wasn't in already, what reasons would people have for putting it in?
I've seen the 'fun' reason dished out, however the fun it provides is for such a limited few who can manage it. Oddly, it was taken from the marines and now that the initial outcry is gone, I don't see people pining for it. People are asking for 1.04 or 2.0, but I never see them citing marine bunnyhop as why they want to play those. So was it really that much fun?
I've seen the reason that it allows differentiation by skill. Except then there's the argument that bhopping isn't really the skill, it's being able to maneuver/fight etc. while bhopping that's the skill. Plus, as stated above, bhopping is more of a text-editor/google-based skill than anything else. So if bhopping isn't really the skill involved, why not ditch it, boost everybody's speed and let them all learn how to maneuver/fight at the new levels.
As for what it adds to the game; well, another skill, I'd argue, although it is a bit obscure, since it can be made up for with fancy commands and binds, etc. Also, it actually amuses me when I see someone who really <i>does</i> master bhopping, and knows how to use it; I was pubbing a bit, on ns_veil, and standing in the part of topo nearest MS. I heard a skulk coming, and suddenly he flew out of the doorway and at me, at a tremendous pace, then I died. Got him nailed enough that a teammate killed him right after he got me, but it was still the fastest bhopper I have ever seen (if it actually was bhopping, 'cause <i>god</i> that skulk was going fast), and it thrilled me that some people actually take the time to learn stuff like this... I mean, come on, if he actually puts so much effort into learning it, shouldn't he reap the rewards?
Oh, and about the 30hr-learning curve: Seems I'm a natural talent too, it took me less than one minute to catch the basics, then about four more minutes to learn basic bhopping around maps? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It took me 5 mins to understand bhoping, 3 days to be master...but i'm still mastering it more and more everyday. But it does make a lot of noise, so silence is good, but celerity's better.
Clerity with bhop is really good everything exept lerk...bhop should'nt work on onos.