Radeon Hits Back
NumbersNotFound
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">A neck and neck battle</div> It seems that the two cards are near identical in performance, with ATI having a slight edge with FSAA, Aniso, etc. turned on:
<a href='http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044' target='_blank'>Anandtech</a>
<a href='http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html' target='_blank'>TomsHardware</a>
<a href='http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=517&cid=2' target='_blank'>HotHardware</a>
<a href='http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/radeon-x800/index.x?pg=1' target='_blank'>TechReport</a>
<a href='http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NTg=' target='_blank'>Hexus</a>
<a href='http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/ati_x800/' target='_blank'>Lost Circuits</a>
Enjoy!
<a href='http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044' target='_blank'>Anandtech</a>
<a href='http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html' target='_blank'>TomsHardware</a>
<a href='http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=517&cid=2' target='_blank'>HotHardware</a>
<a href='http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/radeon-x800/index.x?pg=1' target='_blank'>TechReport</a>
<a href='http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NTg=' target='_blank'>Hexus</a>
<a href='http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/ati_x800/' target='_blank'>Lost Circuits</a>
Enjoy!
Comments
I'll state right here and now that I do <b>not</b> care how a card looks, only performance...
The power consumption is a little high on the Nvidia model, and the ATI X800 consumes less than even the 9800XT, but i normally buy big enough power supplies not to care anyway.
The reviews say that the ATI card is <i>slightly</i> faster, but that the Nvidia card has a better archetecture...
We'll have to see how the next cards in this chipset progress to really prove that, though.
I'll state right here and now that I do <b>not</b> care how a card looks, only performance...
The power consumption is a little high on the Nvidia model, and the ATI X800 consumes less than even the 9800XT, but i normally buy big enough power supplies not to care anyway.
The reviews say that the ATI card is <i>slightly</i> faster, but that the Nvidia card has a better archetecture...
We'll have to see how the next cards in this chipset progress to really prove that, though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was more or less talking about how the heat sink took up so much room, not aesthetic.
About the cards themselves, it looks like NVidia pulls ahead on a lot of the benchmarks and is close to ATi on the ones it falls behind. But people also say the reverse of what I said. The only way to truly find out who is the better of the two is to wait until both cards come out on the market in the final state.
Didn't realize they redid it... or whatever
/me wonders what calgon tablets will be in 20 years......
isn't that the non-ultra?
<a href='http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044' target='_blank'>Anandtech</a>
<a href='http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html' target='_blank'>TomsHardware</a>
<a href='http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=517&cid=2' target='_blank'>HotHardware</a>
<a href='http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/radeon-x800/index.x?pg=1' target='_blank'>TechReport</a>
<a href='http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NTg=' target='_blank'>Hexus</a>
<a href='http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/ati_x800/' target='_blank'>Lost Circuits</a>
Enjoy! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had 3 voices going off in my head when I saw that
1: Pretty...colors...
2: Great...performance....
and the last one said something like: Melted....computer...
GG.
Who knows what ati 's directx 3.0c is gonna be like <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> for ati.
woah we might get temporal aa backported to the 9800 pro ,can anyone confirm?
Ahh, but we all know the ending of episode 3.
Anakin will turn bad. His children will be separated. Palpatine will become a dictator. Yoda and Obi-wan will retreat to the wilderness.
In this case, ATI will again kick the living crap out of Nvidia, while Nvidia cried, "Oh why, why, why!"
Yes we can. Three cheers for capitalism!
I actually didn't hear about this from the boards. No, I was down at Fry's earlier... and I saw something marked 'Radeon X800 Pro' on the shelf. There was an empty space next to it marked (on the little paper tape label) 'Radeon X800 XT PE'. I'd thought it was a third-party knockoff until I looked closer and saw the 'Built By ATi' logo, and was confused.
Then realization struck.
I looked around at the nVidia side.. full of FX5950s, FX5900 Ultras, GF2MXes, and GF4MXes. But not a 6800 in sight.
As I said in the other thread. Wait until they actually hit shelves. And guess what? ATi's on the shelf, here. I could buy one if I had the cash. And nVidia... must still be in-delivery. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh, and it's not 'a better architecture', it's that the NV part has a larger featureset. The problem is, that featureset will do no good unless a developer USES one or more of those features. Just like the Radeon's new SINCOS single-op function.
If only I had the $500 to spend...
As well, the X800 is a great thing.. no need to waste two Molex connectors on a video card, or starve the rest of your machine. Less power consumed means less heat generated. It fits IN A SINGLE SLOT for the high-performance version, unlike a certain bloated brand. And the chipset designer believes enough in their product to make their <i>own</i> cards, rather than forcing people to risk all the third-party schlock.
Hopefully ATi will work on the OpenGL implementation of their cards a bit more thoroughly, as they ARE lagging there. However, in all the games I personally want to play... I'm willing to deal with slightly lower OpenGL performance, compared to an over 40% BOOST in DX9 performance. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That one really gets me. It's a 3dmark03 benchmark on the cards. At 1024x768, the cards are neck and neck. But, when you max out FSAA and AF, the 6800 gets absolutely pounded, scoring lower than the 9800XT.
There must be something wrong there, it just doesn't seem right.
Linkies <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=145' target='_blank'>http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=145</a>
hmm .. these are ps1 vs ps 3 :/
There is a difference in the things you can do, ie performance wise. you are limited by framerates. There are things some of these devs can do the points is.
These things are used by devs to speed up their game.
A brand new Radeon 9800 XT! It'll be like, $5 now.
And not only does the Pro one (that they got) look cool, but look at the Pro IceQ!
Quality at speed is still ATi's domain, fully. Again, here's hoping that they get with the program on the OpenGL side, and figure out what's causing the hang-up.
And regardless if it's the lower-grade or top-grade of the next-gen cards... ATi made it to the shelf first. And their lower-grade card blows anything currently purchasable out of the water. Excepting, of course, another X800 Pro. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Heh. Funny how they blow their horn about being the fastest at a given something, when there's no one to compete. After all, the FX series were supposed to blow everything else away with their PS performance. And we've all seen how THAT ended. Also, the Unreal Nexgen video was only on an nVidia as ATi didn't send a sample of the X800 series over. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, note how many ShaderMark demos (Anandtech) the nVidia card has no scores for... because it can't run them. ^_^
Quality at speed is still ATi's domain, fully. Again, here's hoping that they get with the program on the OpenGL side, and figure out what's causing the hang-up.
And regardless if it's the lower-grade or top-grade of the next-gen cards... ATi made it to the shelf first. And their lower-grade card blows anything currently purchasable out of the water. Excepting, of course, another X800 Pro. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Heh. Funny how they blow their horn about being the fastest at a given something, when there's no one to compete. After all, the FX series were supposed to blow everything else away with their PS performance. And we've all seen how THAT ended. Also, the Unreal Nexgen video was only on an nVidia as ATi didn't send a sample of the X800 series over. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, note how many ShaderMark demos (Anandtech) the nVidia card has no scores for... because it can't run them. ^_^ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you say that ATi has no competition, NVidia's chipset has 220 <b>Million</b> Transistors compared to ATi's puny 160 Million. Each of the cards excel in different areas and both cards aren't complete. Each company has been modifying their cards to compete better with the latter of the two.
Sure Nvidia's card has more trasistors. So what? Take a look at the bechmarks. The new Radeon still pwns the GeForce 6. ATI may use less transistors, but it uses them much more efficiently. The result - a better card that takes less power yet runs better. If the X800 had 220 mil transistors, it would blow the GF6 so far out of the water even the most hardcore Nvidia fanboys would switch.
[EDIT] Drat, Hellfire beat me to it...
[EDIT 2] Plus, take a gander at what happens when you start adding things like high levels of AF/AA to the GF6 - your framerates go through the floor! (84 FPS vs. 22)
Sure Nvidia's card has more trasistors. So what? Take a look at the bechmarks. The new Radeon still pwns the GeForce 6. ATI may use less transistors, but it uses them much more efficiently. The result - a better card that takes less power yet runs better. If the X800 had 220 mil transistors, it would blow the GF6 so far out of the water even the most hardcore Nvidia fanboys would switch.
[EDIT] Drat, Hellfire beat me to it...
[EDIT 2] Plus, take a gander at what happens when you start adding things like high levels of AF/AA to the GF6 - your framerates go through the floor! (84 FPS vs. 22) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you see my point, these games were tested with cards that haven't even been released yet, except for the cheaper one. The geforce cards were tested with <b>Beta</b> Drivers, meaning they will certainly be better by the time of the release. The card itself will go through more changes and improvements so there is really no basis for a hands down comparison. Also if you check many different benchmarks, some reviews have been biased. So far I have seen reviews of UT2004 with ATi excelling and beating the NVidia card by 1 fps and then find another review with the ATi card beating it by 20 fps.
Uh, yeah they have been released. As Talesin said, you can buy the X800 now, and I know you can get the GF6 in some computers (the Voodoo HeXx for example.) Of course the drivers are new, but they still have been heavily tested and are fairly near complete. Sure there will be updates, but I highly doubt that an update could give the GF6 a 60-75 FPS boost to compete with the X800's AF capabilities.
Also, the reviews I've seen aren't biased at all. The differences are due to different settings that are being tested and different areas of the game being examined. Who said all the benchmarks had to be made in the Cooler (Far Cry) or Blood Gultch (Halo)? Chances are the differences can be thus explained.
And I highly doubt that an independant review place like Tom's Hardware would slant their reviews in favor of one company over the other.
Uh, yeah they have been released. As Talesin said, you can buy the X800 now, and I know you can get the GF6 in some computers (the Voodoo HeXx for example.) Of course the drivers are new, but they still have been heavily tested and are fairly near complete. Sure there will be updates, but I highly doubt that an update could give the GF6 a 60-75 FPS boost to compete with the X800's AF capabilities.
Also, the reviews I've seen aren't biased at all. The differences are due to different settings that are being tested and different areas of the game being examined. Who said all the benchmarks had to be made in the Cooler (Far Cry) or Blood Gultch (Halo)? Chances are the differences can be thus explained.
And I highly doubt that an independant review place like Tom's Hardware would slant their reviews in favor of one company over the other. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, actually I didn't say TomsHardware has biased reviews, they actually have one of the best. I was more or less talking about gamespy and their review.
Second of all, the X800 XT cards have not come out. I said the cheaper card(and I will look this up for you to be more specific) the Radeon X800 Pro(not the XT) has come out and can be bought in stores.
Third of all, your basing your review of the GF6 on one aspect of their card which is FSAA. I can do that also, ATi's card is uncomparable to the GF6 because the GF6 is 50 fps above the ATi card in all the benchmarks on Call of Duty. See how thats ONE aspect of the card where it clearly dominates.
Fourth of all, there are a lot of better benchmarks to use as your bias considering the one you used is comparing the Geforce in 8xFSAA compared to the 6xFSAA of the ATi card in one part of the test. BTW if you didn't notice, Nvidia one overall in that aspect vs ATi.