<div class="IPBDescription">The sniper</div>I'm not sure if they're sure, but they say that they are pretty sure that they caught the guy killing all these people.
For all those who want to know more then <a href="http://www.cnn.com/" target="_blank">The CNN Website</a>, or <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2356271.stm" target="_blank">The BBC Website</a> are the things you need.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com" target="_blank">The NY Times</a> also has a pretty hefty bit of reporting. I pray this is him; I've got a friend in DC I've been worried sick about since it started.
I think they are. They found them sleeping in the car, if they were normal they'd be asleep in a hotel or something. Did'nt they find a rifle in there?
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
They did not find a rifle in the car; they are currently examining the car for gunpowder residue or other evidence.
Other information: 1) The man was wanted on an unrelated federal firarms charge. His name was issued last night (I believe) to the public in an attempt to locate him.
2) The man used to live in a house in Tacoma, Washington, where apparently he used a stump in his back yard for target practice. Police combed the house and yard, and took the stump back to the lab to see if there are bullets or other evidence in it.
3) At least one official says they have evidence that clearly links the man to the attacks, though they didn't say what the evidence was so there's no way to judge just how clearly is "clearly."
4) The car they were caught in fits the description of one seen "speeding away" from one crime scene, a blue-burgundy Chevy. It *is* the car that police said they began looking for last night.
Time will tell. And by the way, normal people sleep in cars sometimes, for instance if they're taking a break during a long road trip.
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/24/sniper.shootings/index.html" target="_blank">Sources: Rifle found in suspects' car</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->-- A Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle was recovered from the vehicle impounded during the overnight arrest of two suspects in the Washington-area sniper case, a law enforcement source told CNN Thursday.
All the sniper victims -- 10 dead, three wounded since October 2 -- were hit by a single .223-caliber shot. Washington radio station WTOP reported that a rifle, a scope and a tripod had been recovered from the suspects' vehicle. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Excellent. Can we make an exception for this ####head and hang him? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'><!--endemo-->
Actually, both Maryland and Virginia are death penalty states. But even if he gets a life sentence, he'd likely get Jeffrey Dahmered in prison anyway if he was put near the general population.
Erm... Do I have to learn up or has the gallow really not yet been replaced by more 'humane' forms of the punishment?
You can be sure that his (their?) stay in prison won't be a very pleasant one, but I guess he (they?) won't have to endure more than every other 'public' criminal. Rapists, p.e., are usually moved into other prisons if inmates find out why they're sitting in.
I wonder what videogames they found in his house...
and on a serious note: The story has some spots for doubts and maybes, but I hope this is the guy so that this crap can stop.
What I wonder about is, yesterday they shut down the highway to look for a white box truck.. and then all of a sudden out of no where, its a blue car? o.O
but as long as they got em, that's the good thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Oct. 24 2002,14:47--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct. 24 2002,14:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Erm... Do I have to learn up or has the gallow really not yet been replaced by more 'humane' forms of the punishment?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> o.O
afaik, they haven't hung people in a long time...
Now Lethal Injection is the big rage, all they do is lie on a table and go to sleep after they're injected w/ some drugs from an IV...
before that it was the electric chair, and the good old firing squad.
And also, hanging was very humane and actually painless and instant if done right. In a proper hanging you are NOT just choking to death, you actually have your neck snapped instantly. Its only when they mess up and your neck doesn't snap that its incredibly horrible heh...
Yea, hanging always seemed to be long gone to me, it would've suprised me if any state still exercised this very 'inefficient' method in which just too much can go wrong.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
What we need here is a good old fashioned lynching.
I want to see hundreds of citizens march down to the court house when these 2 guys are found guilty. I want to see them tear these 2 ######## apart limb from limb.
And I don't want to hear this "we're better than that" crap. We need to send a message. Try this again, and the community will kill you. Period.
All <i>anything</i> like that would show that the Americans are indeed as emotional, irrational and undemocratic as some try to suggest.
What kind of sign would killing them without (or with a false) trial set? A sign for every American citizen that it's OK not to think, not to care about other peoples rights, and not to believe in what your ancestors signed in 1776. Period.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Spooge+Oct. 24 2002,15:25--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Spooge @ Oct. 24 2002,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I want to see hundreds of citizens march down to the court house when these 2 guys are found guilty. <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Oct. 24 2002,15:25--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct. 24 2002,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What kind of sign would killing them without (or with a false) trial set?
I am as calm and rational as ever. And I am quite serious. As I said, WHEN they are found guilty through a fair trial. Then the community should kill them.
/me agrees with Nem wholeheartedly... i feel that we, as the privileged few of the developed world, should accept a responsibility to promote an enlightened attitude. Justice should be served, but don't tread the first step of the path that will lead to Mugabe's justice.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
You're probably right. We should send the message that if you shoot a 10 year old in the head that we'll buy you breakfast, lunch and dinner for the rest of your life.
This does however not change anything about the fact that, and to be honest I find it ridiculous to debate about this, lynching is a crime, and a pretty capital one at that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds familiar, doesn't it? It's a highly problematic issue to deprive <i>anyone</i> of <i>any</i> of his or her human rights, they're indeed "unalienable". I'm not going to start talking like a history teacher in a fifth grade, but this <i>is</i> the foundation of the nation you're so proud of. Personally, I don't believe any human should be allowed to decide upon someone elses right to live, but if, and your law sadly allows such, it has to be done with as much dignity and righteousness as possible, or it'll just be murder.
Sorry, but if you really believe killing two people, no matter what they've done, to get a point across, or for revenge, or for whatever other reason short of (or in my opinion including) that it is a democratic law to do so, is something to be encouraged, then I've got to ask myself how far you understood the principles your country has been built upon.
[edit] <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're probably right. We should send the message that if you shoot a 10 year old in the head that we'll buy you breakfast, lunch and dinner for the rest of your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha - ha.
You know, my parents happen to work in the sector, and if you really think you can reduce imprisonment to a kind of two stars motel stay, you're <i>wrong</i>. For one thing, you can't go where you want. And while that doesn't sound too bad for a day or two, try it for <i>twenty years</i>. I know of 'hard' men who crumbled under this alone. Then, as MonsE mentioned, the other inmates will be less than welcoming to them. Now add another variety of social pressures beginning with the sheer deprivation of sunlight (kept for an hour a day) and ending with nearly claustrophobic issues many prisoners develop, and you'll very soon ask yourself whether the message you're really sending is still PG-13.[/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Oct. 24 2002,13:59--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (coil @ Oct. 24 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->...2) The man used to live in a house in Tacoma, Washington...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Scariest. Thought. In. My. Mind.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Oct. 24 2002,12:02--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct. 24 2002,12:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yea, hanging always seemed to be long gone to me, it would've suprised me if any state still exercised this very 'inefficient' method in which just too much can go wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, Deleware, New Hampshire, and Washington all still have hanging as an available method of execution. Neither of these methods have been used in a long time, and there are some regulations (i.e. hanging in Delaware is only an available option if your crime was committed before 1986).
<a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004916.html" target="_blank">Here's a link</a> that lists every state's execution methods and minimum ages to be able to be sentenced to death.
well if they still cant find out if it him or not they should just wait and if there is no shootings it is him and if there is more shooting let him go!
<!--QuoteBegin--Ginger+Oct. 24 2002,16:19--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Ginger @ Oct. 24 2002,16:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->well if they still cant find out if it him or not they should just wait and if there is no shootings it is him and if there is more shooting let him go!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They should put you on the police force.
Seriously though, I sure hope they got the right guy, and that some other moron doesn't go a shootin' after this.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ginger+Oct. 24 2002,19:19--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Ginger @ Oct. 24 2002,19:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->well if they still cant find out if it him or not they should just wait and if there is no shootings it is him and if there is more shooting let him go!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So, if it <i>isn't</i> him, what's to stop the real sniper from stopping now that he has a perfect scapegoat.
I really, really hope that this is the guy, but it looks as though the media is already drawing the noose. A jury can consist of citizens who can prove that they know nothing about the case they are about to try.
Who's going to be on this jury, to ensure a fair trial? [Granted, though, that the evidence listed in the media is pretty damning.]
-Ryan!
"If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos." -- Martin Luther King, Jr
"This is my commandment, that ye love one another." -- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, John 15:12)
Ballistic tests indicate that it's the same weapon-- though, I wonder what percentage of error there is in an identity derived from that practice.
Either way, combine that with his marksmanship abilities, the sniper bed in the back, his location, and a scoped .223 rifle, and I think that even the most ignorant jury on the planet isn't going to be any help to this mother-(insert string of incredibly awful words that would undoubtedly get swatted by the filter).
Plus, there's two of them, so the kid will almost assuredly sell him up the river to save his own butt . . .
well. i think that a life sentence is much worse than getting killed with the death penalty...imagine the rest of your WHOLE life (about the next 50 years or so) at the same prison, doing the same #### day after day and without having any freedom. id prefer to die......seriously.
Comments
Other information:
1) The man was wanted on an unrelated federal firarms charge. His name was issued last night (I believe) to the public in an attempt to locate him.
2) The man used to live in a house in Tacoma, Washington, where apparently he used a stump in his back yard for target practice. Police combed the house and yard, and took the stump back to the lab to see if there are bullets or other evidence in it.
3) At least one official says they have evidence that clearly links the man to the attacks, though they didn't say what the evidence was so there's no way to judge just how clearly is "clearly."
4) The car they were caught in fits the description of one seen "speeding away" from one crime scene, a blue-burgundy Chevy. It *is* the car that police said they began looking for last night.
Time will tell. And by the way, normal people sleep in cars sometimes, for instance if they're taking a break during a long road trip.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->-- A Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle was recovered from the vehicle impounded during the overnight arrest of two suspects in the Washington-area sniper case, a law enforcement source told CNN Thursday.
All the sniper victims -- 10 dead, three wounded since October 2 -- were hit by a single .223-caliber shot. Washington radio station WTOP reported that a rifle, a scope and a tripod had been recovered from the suspects' vehicle. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point of a democratic justice system - you're better than him and therefore <i>won't</i> go on it eye for eye.
You can be sure that his (their?) stay in prison won't be a very pleasant one, but I guess he (they?) won't have to endure more than every other 'public' criminal.
Rapists, p.e., are usually moved into other prisons if inmates find out why they're sitting in.
and on a serious note: The story has some spots for doubts and maybes, but I hope this is the guy so that this crap can stop.
What I wonder about is, yesterday they shut down the highway to look for a white box truck.. and then all of a sudden out of no where, its a blue car? o.O
but as long as they got em, that's the good thing.
A 41-year-old Army veteran
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well ... who woulda thought ...?
My bet, the teenager got him addicted to CS and thats where he got the idea from.
o.O
afaik, they haven't hung people in a long time...
Now Lethal Injection is the big rage, all they do is lie on a table and go to sleep after they're injected w/ some drugs from an IV...
before that it was the electric chair, and the good old firing squad.
And also, hanging was very humane and actually painless and instant if done right. In a proper hanging you are NOT just choking to death, you actually have your neck snapped instantly. Its only when they mess up and your neck doesn't snap that its incredibly horrible heh...
I want to see hundreds of citizens march down to the court house when these 2 guys are found guilty. I want to see them tear these 2 ######## apart limb from limb.
And I don't want to hear this "we're better than that" crap. We need to send a message. Try this again, and the community will kill you. Period.
All <i>anything</i> like that would show that the Americans are indeed as emotional, irrational and undemocratic as some try to suggest.
What kind of sign would killing them without (or with a false) trial set?
A sign for every American citizen that it's OK not to think, not to care about other peoples rights, and not to believe in what your ancestors signed in 1776. Period.
I want to see hundreds of citizens march down to the court house when these 2 guys are found guilty.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Oct. 24 2002,15:25--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct. 24 2002,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of sign would killing them without (or with a false) trial set?
I am as calm and rational as ever. And I am quite serious. As I said, WHEN they are found guilty through a fair trial. Then the community should kill them.
i feel that we, as the privileged few of the developed world, should accept a responsibility to promote an enlightened attitude.
Justice should be served, but don't tread the first step of the path that will lead to Mugabe's justice.
Good plan.
This does however not change anything about the fact that, and to be honest I find it ridiculous to debate about this, lynching is a crime, and a pretty capital one at that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
It's a highly problematic issue to deprive <i>anyone</i> of <i>any</i> of his or her human rights, they're indeed "unalienable".
I'm not going to start talking like a history teacher in a fifth grade, but this <i>is</i> the foundation of the nation you're so proud of. Personally, I don't believe any human should be allowed to decide upon someone elses right to live, but if, and your law sadly allows such, it has to be done with as much dignity and righteousness as possible, or it'll just be murder.
Sorry, but if you really believe killing two people, no matter what they've done, to get a point across, or for revenge, or for whatever other reason short of (or in my opinion including) that it is a democratic law to do so, is something to be encouraged, then I've got to ask myself how far you understood the principles your country has been built upon.
[edit] <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're probably right. We should send the message that if you shoot a 10 year old in the head that we'll buy you breakfast, lunch and dinner for the rest of your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha - ha.
You know, my parents happen to work in the sector, and if you really think you can reduce imprisonment to a kind of two stars motel stay, you're <i>wrong</i>.
For one thing, you can't go where you want. And while that doesn't sound too bad for a day or two, try it for <i>twenty years</i>. I know of 'hard' men who crumbled under this alone.
Then, as MonsE mentioned, the other inmates will be less than welcoming to them.
Now add another variety of social pressures beginning with the sheer deprivation of sunlight (kept for an hour a day) and ending with nearly claustrophobic issues many prisoners develop, and you'll very soon ask yourself whether the message you're really sending is still PG-13.[/edit]
<!--EDIT|Nemesis Zero|Oct. 24 2002,16:00-->
Scariest. Thought. In. My. Mind.
Considering I live there anyways.
PHEWWW
Actually, Deleware, New Hampshire, and Washington all still have hanging as an available method of execution. Neither of these methods have been used in a long time, and there are some regulations (i.e. hanging in Delaware is only an available option if your crime was committed before 1986).
<a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004916.html" target="_blank">Here's a link</a> that lists every state's execution methods and minimum ages to be able to be sentenced to death.
They should put you on the police force.
Seriously though, I sure hope they got the right guy, and that some other moron doesn't go a shootin' after this.
So, if it <i>isn't</i> him, what's to stop the real sniper from stopping now that he has a perfect scapegoat.
I really, really hope that this is the guy, but it looks as though the media is already drawing the noose. A jury can consist of citizens who can prove that they know nothing about the case they are about to try.
Who's going to be on this jury, to ensure a fair trial? [Granted, though, that the evidence listed in the media is pretty damning.]
-Ryan!
"If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr
"This is my commandment, that ye love one another."
-- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, John 15:12)
Either way, combine that with his marksmanship abilities, the sniper bed in the back, his location, and a scoped .223 rifle, and I think that even the most ignorant jury on the planet isn't going to be any help to this mother-(insert string of incredibly awful words that would undoubtedly get swatted by the filter).
Plus, there's two of them, so the kid will almost assuredly sell him up the river to save his own butt . . .
<!--EDIT|BathroomMonkey|Oct. 24 2002,20:33-->