Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple
<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+Apr 30 2004, 10:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ Apr 30 2004, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, I"ll say it again.
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + free XP = Might win
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. But <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>, least they are play testing a new balance' beta 4a patch as is stated in a couple above posts.
In any game there is allways going to be some realism, just have a look around, Sci Fiction games still have realism in them. I mean if I was fighting and Pac Man spawned in a game and ate the Marines - and Aliens, and was lvl 99 allready, id spose you'd say , oh well, it could happen, its Sci Fiction.. very lame. Just like free XP hey, oh well it could happen, and at this point it does...
Hope this new balance patch coming will fix this crap, as a whole, there are more against it than for it.
If you dont have anything constructive to add to my Thread, dont post here, go make your own 'Thread' about how u like getting **** for free for doing nothing'.
Looks like we are gonna have to break it over to you again and again and again....
Free XP was put in to address the issue of marine camping where marines just sit there in spawn waiting for the aliens. Essentially, thsi would be the same as the acclaimed 'free xp design flaw' as you state for the aliens.
The only difference is they shoot, but having an armory fixes that problem. Armor? Welders take care of that. Onos/Fades? Simply take out a couple of skulks, upgrade your weapons. Lerks? Again, kill skulks, upgrade LMG to GL.
<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know, I"ll say it again.
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + free XP = Might win
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forget one thing. NS has lots of corridors, and corridors are death for skulks. Meaning a marine with teamwork against an alien with teamwork WILL WIN. If you can't hit them all, it's not my fault your aim went off by a couple of pixels. If they got lerks, fades and Oni, then you already deserve to lose because you never pushed out of your base hard enough. Instead you rely too much on your armory and CC. You lack levels because you haven't pressured the hive and aliens too much. You are too lax.
But why? Marines have a <b>ranged advantage</b>. So what if the aliens travel in a swarm if they're in a corridor, perfect place for slaughtering every single alien with guns. Even easier done with help from your teammates. It would be as easy as heck when you get an HMG from those 3 levels when you kill those aliens who keep trying to use their teamwork against your team who use their range advantage.
Run off alone? You die. Run off in squads? You live against skulk rushes early on.
You don't like it because you are too used to sitting in base waiting for free skulk XP from standing next to the commchair. Sadly, that won't be there anymore.
No more marines camping in base making the game longer and playing it not as intended. No more quick GL in the first 30 seconds. No more CC camping.
What do aliens have against marines with ranged advantage?
Carapace? Your weapons tear through them when you get weapon upgrades. Regeneration? They still die just as easy. Redemption? Useless when you're at the hive slaughtering them left and right. Silence? You don't need to use your own eyes when you've got teammates also covering you. Adrenaline? They only get to attack more. Celerity? You invested more into a stronger weapon didn't you? Cloaking? Scan takes care of that ASAP. Focus? Just one armor upgrade and you take 2 bites to kill. Scent of Fear? Even the field with motion tracking. Umbra? Don't make me laugh because you can get a GL and poof no more umbra. Spores? You got resupply didn't you? Webs? GLS and Welders take care of them easily. Devour? I thought you travelled in groups? Stomp? I don't blame you if you don't have a jetpack. Leaping skulks and persistent gorges? Heavy weapons cut through them like a knife through butter. Fades? HMGs and shotguns rip them apart. Lerks? GLs take care of them easily even if they're pancaking. Oni? HMG tear them even before they get near you. Even moreso with a jetpack.
Keep in mind that alien gaining XP was put in before, removed, and again, put in. If Flayra put it in again, he has a very good reason for it. No dev will reimplement a feature that was removed in a previous beta build without a valid reason.
I'll be up for Combat's old system, where there is no CC and has a 5 minute time limit. Combat was badly flawed because :
- Games are longer than stated. Now fixed with free alien XP. - Wave spawning elongating games at unnecessary times. Fixed with single spawning. - Marine CC camping, also addressed with free alien XP.
If you don't like Combat, don't play it. Plain and simple. But either way, isn't this thread already moot as patch 4a is coming out soon?
I guess you haven't played beta 4 CO then. Fo show me a server where marines win 50%, I dare you.
Besides, you forgot to add the free xp to your calculation. I don't care how good marine teamwork is, aliens will win 90% of the time due to teamwork, faster gain of levels and been able to move around the small map faster.
Early fade in CO is deadly. Even if you kill him, he's probably taken out 2 marines already. He gains a ton of xp and you get to spawn back super slow and give the aliens the advantage.
What the marines need is a beacon upgrade. Beacon activates when 3/4 of the total marines are dead. It then spawns you immediately (+ any other marines that have beacon). In other words, beacon circumvents the spawn cue. people in the spawn cue spawn as normal, but beacon people are spawned together with them.
- Realism is the least of all worries to the devs. Yes, yes, authenticity is important, a game that isn't believeable won't immerse, and so on, and so on, but get this through your system: Gameplay first. How 'bout we first make the game fun and then start looking for explanations? - Stop the statistics. Can any of you - <i>any</i> of you`- offer a source that can at least partitially support the generalized 90%-claims you throw left and right? No? Then do us all a favor and leave them out. - A member of a differing opinion is <i>not</i> stupid, is <i>not</i> ignorant, is <i>not</i> a 'newb'. If you feel like calling him either, you'll soon make close acquintance with the effects of our 'no flaming' rule.
the whole fade to strong thing skulks to weak thing is a flaw in my eyes.
skulks get raped hardcore by a welder.
and you need 2 marines with an hmg to kill a fade.
the gap in powere here is extreme. The same goes in ns. SKukks are paper thin but once you get a fade and know how to use him youtr nigh invicible. Ive said time and time agian that fades are way way to strong they have every advantage in the game on a single life form. Fades need nerfed and a cost reduction. making it take 3 marines to kill a fade means that if half your team goes fade YOU WIN!!! THat is what happening. Go into you OMEGA UNBLANACED COMBAT GAMES and look at whos a fade and then whos at the top of the score. Youll see an odd connection between the two.
The power gap between 1st teir aleins and second teir aleins needs to be closed.
here are my solutions:
* fades need nerfed and cost decresed * Fades need a cost increse * fades need a cost increse with the introduction of a new evolution: "advanced Skulk" it willk have double the hp and armor of a normal skulk and have a slight speed increse and cost 30-35 res. This will close the HUGE gap between first and second teir life forms.
i am adament on the idea that the fade is what is killing ns and combat. Because when somone goes fade = thewin
Nerfing the fade repeatidly is rather obnoxious, since the Flayra doesn't want to make seperate stats for each 'mode' Combat is going to be idiotically in the favor of the khaara until you learn what teamwork means.
You go in together, you check the roofs of the room together, you shoot the khaara together.
One of you may die, but the rest of you level up.
Amazingly, fades are exaggerated in Combat unless your that rambo that feeds him to give him the rigged Regen+Cara+Focus combo of the fade which needs to be addressed but not sure how to balance it.
Wonder why you lost? Marines are offensive, Khaara defensive
If the khaara are offensive.....you lost.
ALWAYS keep up pressure and you will win or have a good game provided your team mate's are decent.
Ah yes... Combat. I've been against combat for a long while now. So whenever i play it i exploit it's flaws as hard as i possibly can. As marine i constantly told my team to camp untill jetpacks. "Why" they asked... BECAUSE WE CAN thats why. Nothing like waiting 5 minutes before the first stupid skulk attempts to rush marine base down the huge long hallway. "This sucks" says the aliens, "Welcome to combat" I reply. Right now, my lame asstastick tactic doesn't work on marines, but when i get to join alien (BTW: Random ownz ) i love chilling around half way around the map telling my skulk buddies to just hang above the same door. We ambush the marine collumn (if they were smart they would move in a group) and kill all of them and then rush marine start... taking full advantage of the slow respawn rate... thus finishing the game.
"This sucks" says the marines, "Welcome to combat" is my reply.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+May 1 2004, 12:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ May 1 2004, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and you need 2 marines with an hmg to kill a fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You need 2 marines with hmg?
How about a marine with lvl3 shotty. I soloed many fades and scared them away with lvl3 shotty, a lvl3 shotty against a focus fade means i win the battle and fade blinks away after 3 hits from my shotty.
If your not good enough and need an hmg which isnt meant for attacking fades anyhow because of there speed.
2 marines with lvl2 shotty instantly meand fade is dead. and if you dont disperse your marines well enough then you deserve to lose. Too many times i have seen marinesi n ocmbat bunch up together with hmg and shottys. WTH are u thinking. when ur bunched up you block each other. I always guard the doors for blinking fades because if they need to blink out of there then 1 shot from my lvl3 shotty means they are dead.
Learn to play the game, teamwork does not mean bunch up in a group for a good xenocide, a rule in co is if your group is close enough to be taken out by xeno, then your too close. spread apart but stay within each others vision. Marines with teamwork ALWAYS WINS. Its the marines with stupid teamwork that lose.
You want the fade gone then take out HA also. You say HA is counter to onos well if your team cant kill an onos then you dont deserve to play. onos is the biggest thing in NS and 8 shots from lvl3 shotty make it so weak its basically gonna die soon after. It only takes 2 marines with hmg to counter an onos and BOTH LIVE.
Learn to play the game then complain about it. And if your gonna complain, suggest an intelligent solution instead of OMG fade is so overpowered and needs to be out of NS. Fade is perfectly fine, its the only Kharra lifeform thats good against a group of marines.
I was playing on some stupid server last night (cant remember the name of it), anyway. My first 2 abilities are leap and xeno. Before I get any SAs i get leap and then xeno. Anyway, I noticed how the marines liked to walk around bunched up, so I used xeno and then leaped right in the middle of them taking out the entire group of marines (8 total).
Well long story short I got banned for using a hack... funniest thing ever!
Comments
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + free XP = Might win
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + free XP = Might win
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. But <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>, least they are play testing a new balance' beta 4a patch as is stated in a couple above posts.
In any game there is allways going to be some realism, just have a look around, Sci Fiction games still have realism in them. I mean if I was fighting and Pac Man spawned in a game and ate the Marines - and Aliens, and was lvl 99 allready, id spose you'd say , oh well, it could happen, its Sci Fiction.. very lame. Just like free XP hey, oh well it could happen, and at this point it does...
Hope this new balance patch coming will fix this crap, as a whole, there are more against it than for it.
If you dont have anything constructive to add to my Thread, dont post here, go make your own 'Thread' about how u like getting **** for free for doing nothing'.
Thank you for adding valuable input though. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Free XP was put in to address the issue of marine camping where marines just sit there in spawn waiting for the aliens. Essentially, thsi would be the same as the acclaimed 'free xp design flaw' as you state for the aliens.
The only difference is they shoot, but having an armory fixes that problem.
Armor? Welders take care of that.
Onos/Fades? Simply take out a couple of skulks, upgrade your weapons.
Lerks? Again, kill skulks, upgrade LMG to GL.
<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know, I"ll say it again.
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + free XP = Might win
Marine + teamwork vs Alien + teamwork + free XP = 0% chance of winning
I've seen aliens play as a team a ton of times. It doesn't really matter what the marines do. If they rush, they get flanked cause the aliens are that much faster. Aliens get a ton of XP, and then spwan camp.
Marines need more than JUST teamwork. Besides with 90% of games going to aliens, you KNOW something is wrong. Plain and simple
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forget one thing. NS has lots of corridors, and corridors are death for skulks. Meaning a marine with teamwork against an alien with teamwork WILL WIN. If you can't hit them all, it's not my fault your aim went off by a couple of pixels.
If they got lerks, fades and Oni, then you already deserve to lose because you never pushed out of your base hard enough. Instead you rely too much on your armory and CC. You lack levels because you haven't pressured the hive and aliens too much. You are too lax.
Vanilla marines + teamwork > vanilla skulk + teamwork
But why? Marines have a <b>ranged advantage</b>. So what if the aliens travel in a swarm if they're in a corridor, perfect place for slaughtering every single alien with guns. Even easier done with help from your teammates. It would be as easy as heck when you get an HMG from those 3 levels when you kill those aliens who keep trying to use their teamwork against your team who use their range advantage.
Run off alone? You die.
Run off in squads? You live against skulk rushes early on.
You don't like it because you are too used to sitting in base waiting for free skulk XP from standing next to the commchair. Sadly, that won't be there anymore.
No more marines camping in base making the game longer and playing it not as intended. No more quick GL in the first 30 seconds. No more CC camping.
What do aliens have against marines with ranged advantage?
Carapace? Your weapons tear through them when you get weapon upgrades.
Regeneration? They still die just as easy.
Redemption? Useless when you're at the hive slaughtering them left and right.
Silence? You don't need to use your own eyes when you've got teammates also covering you.
Adrenaline? They only get to attack more.
Celerity? You invested more into a stronger weapon didn't you?
Cloaking? Scan takes care of that ASAP.
Focus? Just one armor upgrade and you take 2 bites to kill.
Scent of Fear? Even the field with motion tracking.
Umbra? Don't make me laugh because you can get a GL and poof no more umbra.
Spores? You got resupply didn't you?
Webs? GLS and Welders take care of them easily.
Devour? I thought you travelled in groups?
Stomp? I don't blame you if you don't have a jetpack.
Leaping skulks and persistent gorges? Heavy weapons cut through them like a knife through butter.
Fades? HMGs and shotguns rip them apart.
Lerks? GLs take care of them easily even if they're pancaking.
Oni? HMG tear them even before they get near you. Even moreso with a jetpack.
Keep in mind that alien gaining XP was put in before, removed, and again, put in.
If Flayra put it in again, he has a very good reason for it. No dev will reimplement a feature that was removed in a previous beta build without a valid reason.
I'll be up for Combat's old system, where there is no CC and has a 5 minute time limit. Combat was badly flawed because :
- Games are longer than stated. Now fixed with free alien XP.
- Wave spawning elongating games at unnecessary times. Fixed with single spawning.
- Marine CC camping, also addressed with free alien XP.
If you don't like Combat, don't play it. Plain and simple.
But either way, isn't this thread already moot as patch 4a is coming out soon?
Besides, you forgot to add the free xp to your calculation. I don't care how good marine teamwork is, aliens will win 90% of the time due to teamwork, faster gain of levels and been able to move around the small map faster.
Early fade in CO is deadly. Even if you kill him, he's probably taken out 2 marines already. He gains a ton of xp and you get to spawn back super slow and give the aliens the advantage.
Give marines free xp gain also and its all good.
'Couple points:
- Realism is the least of all worries to the devs. Yes, yes, authenticity is important, a game that isn't believeable won't immerse, and so on, and so on, but get this through your system: Gameplay first. How 'bout we first make the game fun and then start looking for explanations?
- Stop the statistics. Can any of you - <i>any</i> of you`- offer a source that can at least partitially support the generalized 90%-claims you throw left and right? No? Then do us all a favor and leave them out.
- A member of a differing opinion is <i>not</i> stupid, is <i>not</i> ignorant, is <i>not</i> a 'newb'. If you feel like calling him either, you'll soon make close acquintance with the effects of our 'no flaming' rule.
skulks get raped hardcore by a welder.
and you need 2 marines with an hmg to kill a fade.
the gap in powere here is extreme. The same goes in ns. SKukks are paper thin but once you get a fade and know how to use him youtr nigh invicible.
Ive said time and time agian that fades are way way to strong they have every advantage in the game on a single life form. Fades need nerfed and a cost reduction. making it take 3 marines to kill a fade means that if half your team goes fade YOU WIN!!! THat is what happening. Go into you OMEGA UNBLANACED COMBAT GAMES and look at whos a fade and then whos at the top of the score. Youll see an odd connection between the two.
The power gap between 1st teir aleins and second teir aleins needs to be closed.
here are my solutions:
* fades need nerfed and cost decresed
* Fades need a cost increse
* fades need a cost increse with the introduction of a new evolution: "advanced Skulk" it willk have double the hp and armor of a normal skulk and have a slight speed increse and cost 30-35 res. This will close the HUGE gap between first and second teir life forms.
i am adament on the idea that the fade is what is killing ns and combat. Because when somone goes fade = thewin
You go in together, you check the roofs of the room together, you shoot the khaara together.
One of you may die, but the rest of you level up.
Amazingly, fades are exaggerated in Combat unless your that rambo that feeds him to give him the rigged Regen+Cara+Focus combo of the fade which needs to be addressed but not sure how to balance it.
Wonder why you lost? Marines are offensive, Khaara defensive
If the khaara are offensive.....you lost.
ALWAYS keep up pressure and you will win or have a good game provided your team mate's are decent.
"This sucks" says the marines, "Welcome to combat" is my reply.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need 2 marines with hmg?
How about a marine with lvl3 shotty. I soloed many fades and scared them away with lvl3 shotty, a lvl3 shotty against a focus fade means i win the battle and fade blinks away after 3 hits from my shotty.
If your not good enough and need an hmg which isnt meant for attacking fades anyhow because of there speed.
2 marines with lvl2 shotty instantly meand fade is dead. and if you dont disperse your marines well enough then you deserve to lose. Too many times i have seen marinesi n ocmbat bunch up together with hmg and shottys. WTH are u thinking. when ur bunched up you block each other. I always guard the doors for blinking fades because if they need to blink out of there then 1 shot from my lvl3 shotty means they are dead.
Learn to play the game, teamwork does not mean bunch up in a group for a good xenocide, a rule in co is if your group is close enough to be taken out by xeno, then your too close. spread apart but stay within each others vision. Marines with teamwork ALWAYS WINS. Its the marines with stupid teamwork that lose.
You want the fade gone then take out HA also. You say HA is counter to onos well if your team cant kill an onos then you dont deserve to play. onos is the biggest thing in NS and 8 shots from lvl3 shotty make it so weak its basically gonna die soon after. It only takes 2 marines with hmg to counter an onos and BOTH LIVE.
Learn to play the game then complain about it. And if your gonna complain, suggest an intelligent solution instead of OMG fade is so overpowered and needs to be out of NS. Fade is perfectly fine, its the only Kharra lifeform thats good against a group of marines.
I was playing on some stupid server last night (cant remember the name of it), anyway. My first 2 abilities are leap and xeno. Before I get any SAs i get leap and then xeno. Anyway, I noticed how the marines liked to walk around bunched up, so I used xeno and then leaped right in the middle of them taking out the entire group of marines (8 total).
Well long story short I got banned for using a hack... funniest thing ever!