Beta4 = Marines Always Lose

Drummer

<div class="IPBDescription">Combat is doomed...</div> Be forewarned, I AM TALKING ABOUT COMBAT, NOT REGULAR, REGULAR IS STILL FINE...

Anyway, the marines are now officially screwed in combat games. Flayra admited that in beta 3 that the game was unbalanced and that aliens won a lot of the games. Now, it's worse. That constant experience stream is a blatent unbalance. They can sit it their hive and become an Onos without moving. Granted that would take a long time, but it's the principle. The spawning thing isnt a problem really, because it is the same for both teams. But that stream of XP NEEDS TO BE REMOVED. I dont think ive seen a combat game since beta 4 where marines have won legit(meaning, the aliens weren't uber-n00bs). Basically, if you want to win in combat in beat4, join alien. Ugh, rediculous...

Crono5

Leave base and aim.

I just lost a combat game as Aliens and won as Marines (not consecutively). The other team wasn't full o' noobs, either.

Bry

imo
whoever manages to base camp first wins.
This is normally aliens as they can get focus far faster than marines can or will get armour level 1.
However, marines can do the same if they can pull off an effective shotgun rush. From the loads of games played yesterday and today on my server i have concluded these things:
aliens win 90% of the time on combat
combat has beenr emoved from map rotation

Jav

With the new lerk non-energy flying and the respawn time all of my co_ games have ended up with 5-6 lerks and constant spore spaming to rine spawn. Due to the 1 person respawn over longer time rines never have a hope of recovering. The rine team has to be good to stand a chance or they get destroyed.

MrMojo

Well, the marines were screwed before. That's nothing new. Gorges would heal a hive against any attack, while over time te alien tech would overcome marine tech.

RaVe

<!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Apr 25 2004, 07:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Apr 25 2004, 07:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, the marines were screwed before. That's nothing new. Gorges would heal a hive against any attack, while over time te alien tech would overcome marine tech. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So in short, marines were screwed since day one?

Sounds good to me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

lagger

Ew combat, btw: The team who wins the first battle should win combat.

Wirhe

All the more reason to make Combat a different game completely <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

(Good thing I don't play it a bit.)

In Classic, the weapons actually sound like *weapons* now -even though I still prefer the first welder sound- and the games seem to be non-marine-dominated for change. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's just odd how quickly there can be 3 hives. Yesterday, in EVERY game; even before lv2 ups -a sure sign that marines are screwed if they don't lock at least one hive ASAP. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

MrGunner

I would like to personally thank Flayra for making servers take combat maps out of rotation.

Thank you very, very much.

Jav

It seems like a nice little conspiracy for destroying a good idea.

I do play ns_ but if a feel like a short game where I don't have to team play as much then i go co_. I doubt anyone here will have much love loss for it and thats disapointing

BigBull

IF you havent noticed its not the gameplay.

MArines always lose 95% sitting in base.

Get on your mic, and yell at them to move. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Redford

Combat can be described thusly:

If the aliens can get one or two good fades, or an onos of any skill, they win because one fade or onos is equal to the lives of two or three marines. therefore, the aliens respawn faster, eventually overrun the marines and win. Otherwise, the marines win (generally by shotgunning the hive using a jetpack).

DethGaunt

ok.. let me just say this ... constie only server 16 vs 16 , Marines won 95% of the games

MrMojo

Wow. The aliens must have really sucked then.

XCan

<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>

Ollj

Finally basecamping marines get what they deserve, no levelups till onoses come.

Xyth

Co_, when played with only like 6 players (not 6v6, mind you, 3v3) is still fairly balanced. It's all these 14v14 combat servers that are playing combat the way it never was supposed to be played, so naturally don't expect it to be balanced when you are completely missing what co_ was put here for... The 1 at a time spawning better backs that idea up, when there are only 3 people on your team, then 1 spawning at a time will be quite fast enough, and it's pretty easy to stop 3 base camping skulks. Another reason the marines continue to loose is because, with the streaming XP system for aliens, that gameplay has changed. It's now an incentive for marines to get out of their base and play it like it was supposed to be played.

Nemesis_Zero

<span style='color:white'>***Moved.***</span>

gazOzz

Yep its not easy for marines if they dont push hard and dominate in first 2-3 mins in CO... Im wondering; beefing aliens could be because flayra wants newbies to play & adabt aliens more instead of constantly playing rines...

Drummer

oooo, interesting theory.........

Turkey2

We all complained about beta3 respawning and eventually learned how to live with it by camping hallways and base as rines. In 12-18 player games a single good fade or two made aliens win pretty easily as focus fades could easily dominate spawning rines. The problem is this was just made worse with spawning one at a time. Will people adapt, yes. But not to the point that it's a fun game. Basically it is the team to start spawn camping first now wins. It was kinda the same on the last one depending on team size, but now it's worse cus its easier to do. We need something totally differnt because the object of the game (spawn camping) means one team is always gonna spend eternity dead with no way to fight back.

On the plus side servers are finally removing co from rotation which in the last couple forms is a very good thing.

Deranged

the thing with the spawn has been brought up in this thread, and someone then said well if you lose one big battle you deserve to lose the entire game..umm..in regular NS do you expect to lose after losing one big battle...most teams usually push back, and even in pubs it's happened and the team has recovered and ended up winning..mind you hte game was like an hour but oh well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

In the past you could lose a battle in combat but you still had a chance at coming back, now you have none and it's all over..and then you twiddle your thumbs in spawn <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Bobbybirdtree

Give me a shotgun and now with the spark bug gone i can kill anything that comes my way. Thing is if you are the only one on your team trying you're gonna lose. The new aliens gain exp over time thing helps to keep rines from camping (or face the wrath of all onos). Its very balnanced. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

GhostBomber

I have to agree with those saying that if marines left their spawns, they might win a few more games. This is that period right after major updates where everyone is adjusting their playing styles to the new changes, and given a week or so, I think people might realize that Marines just have to leave spawn.

l3igD

Yea...Marines just have to learn a diffrent way of playing in combat now..You can no longer camp base till you get those shotties and hmgs.. You have to push on that hive to get lvls and win.

hidden_snper

I used to think that beta 4 was complete nonsense, until i played all day last saturday. At first, the 1 at a time spawning and the easy alien domination was getting on my nerves. I had joined a server and was playing with the same people on the same teams all day. After 5 hours of the same CO map, us rines finally won. Thats when it clicked: not only do rines have to leave base, but they also have to work as a team. I think that rines shoulda just been beefed up so they would stop camping but this way works the same, however more harsh.

the lesson: this is how co was SUPPOSED to be played. i think its a giant leap that will turn boys into men.... or noobs into 1337s a lot faster.

Church

No, I know exactly how marines can win in combat, and it's hard.

In order for marines to win, they HVAE to do it before Fades show up. Once Fades (or even Onos, if the marines last that long) it's all over because 1 Fade=3-4 marines, and the respawn time isn't affected by how powerful you are.

To fix this, make Fades take longer to spawn, like 15 seconds. Make Onos spawn time be 20 or 25 seconds.

HA/JP spawn times should be 10 seconds.

BTW the beta4 system just discourages teamwork some more. It's now even harder to get a heavy train in CO going becuase it's hard to make everyone stay alive.

BattleTech

If the marine's don't manage to push the alien's back into their hive within the first five minute's of game, they usually alway's lose combat. Alien's alway's seem to push the marine's back, hold until they get about 4-5 Onos and then it's a gg for marines's. Marine's typically only win if the alien's don't have a Gorge (jetpacks) or they rush early game and shotgun the hive to death.

ShadowSlay

i think that co is actually BETTER now...call me crazy if u want. u respawn in like 3 seconds after dying, which means more fighting and more insane games. ive only been playing combat when the teams were around 14 vs 14 and up and ive won as marines alot, u just need to GET OUT OF BASE. getting out of base and attacking not only gives u ups faster but its way more fun to be in constant action. id say i played about 14 co games since .4 came out and about 5 or 6 of those games marines won. thats about half the games....i think thats the way it should be. so what do marines hafta learn? GET THE **** OUT OF BASE!!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

saberx

<!--QuoteBegin-BattleTech+Apr 25 2004, 12:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Apr 25 2004, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marine's typically only win if the alien's don't have a Gorge (jetpacks) or they rush early game and shotgun the hive to death. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So very true.

th0r0n

I managed to take down a couple of hives yesterday purely by spawning, going to the hive, emptying a clip and dying, then rinsing and repeating, aliens were taking advantage of the free XP by using it to become classes they wouldnt usually have the patience to save for (IE Onos).

It's definately a lot easier for aliens to spawncamp due to the speed that they can take down a marine when theyre in force, but higher classes tend to hinder their mobility, which allows for marines to get in vents, on top of the hive etc.

You're not going to win as a marine by trying to spawncamp when they have Oni, that's for sure <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->