Beta 4

Doobie_Dan · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 20 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <@Flayra|beta4-friday> I'm also thinking about putting lerk spikes back in and combining spores and umbra but that's a scary change  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Talk about the end of the turret farm outpost. That IS a scary change.

By the way, umbra blocks 2 out of every 3 bullets - I believe it was bugged before and blocked 1 out of 3. Could be wrong though.

Nikon · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doobie Dan @ Apr 20 2004, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> By the way, umbra blocks 2 out of every 3 bullets - I believe it was bugged before and blocked 1 out of 3. Could be wrong though.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
yep, fixed in 3.x

Zek · April 2004

Great, even slower respawn times... Boredom and easy spawnkilling isn't the way to make combat shorter. The only reason games are so long is because the majority of chair/hive attacks are erased by Gorges and Welders.

demonx · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Apr 20 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Great, even slower respawn times... Boredom and easy spawnkilling isn't the way to make combat shorter. The only reason games are so long is because the majority of chair/hive attacks are erased by Gorges and Welders.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I agree. Longer respawning times suck. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

LokeTheSleekPeruvian · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Apr 19 2004, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was mad excited for NS 2.0. I remember I was in Scotland for vacation and couldn't sleep for the night, knowing that I was missing its release for about a month.

Though I'm not that much excited for Beta 4, it's just Beta 3 in more balanced with map tweaks.Sure, I'm looking forward to it, but you won't see me jumping on my chair for it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Are you serious? lol same here.

Im just curious about the release.

EDIT: By same here , i meant that i was in Scotland for vacation too when NS 2.0 was released.

RaVe · April 2004

I don't know about the spawnqueue changes.....they seem to make Combat much more slower paced, not what I would expect from its description :o

But I guess its for the extra time you need to pwn that CC/Hive :\

remi · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 20 2004, 02:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> To clarify myself: I meant 'Beta 4', as well, but the fact that a not necessarily integral system is being tested in the duration of the version does not have to mean that it will be necessarily unveiled at the same date.
Following possible scenario: <ul><li>Beta 4 is being released. It includes all necessary client- and server- side code to test the system, but these parts are not being activated yet.</li><li>Beta 4 goes through the usual testing/feedback cycle - people get a feeling for the changes, and the devs are not tasked with immediate beta-related work anymore.</li><li>The system is being activated and tested on the basis of a more or less 'stabilized' version.</li></ul>There can be quite a while between point #1 and #3, so do yourselves all a favor and don't hold your breathe.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
In order for them to "activate" a part of the code like that, they would need either a server patch or another client patch. And since they would want it tested, it would not be a server patch, thus, it would need to be another client patch (maybe an extremely small one) but regardless, would not be called beta 4.

If it was autoupdated by steam already, on the other hand, I believe they could do that. But at the moment I don't think they have any way of globally activating a function without patches.

remi · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BreakfastSausages @ Apr 20 2004, 04:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 20 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> On a completely unrelated note, this taken from IRC:

<@Flayra|beta4-friday> I'm also thinking about putting lerk spikes back in and combining spores and umbra but that's a scary change </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
that would be cool.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That would make spores so unbelievably powerful...
It would also make lerks even more support. Umbra will actually get the lerks kills, and they can also stay back and spike...

Licho · April 2004

Sumbra would make lerks LESS support-role, giving them ability to score more (spike kill were more common than spore kills now!).

Spore+umbra doesnt mean its some overkill ability, it could have umbra or spore element decreased and it will certainly cost a lot of energy.. It could be also just only around lerk, like old 1.04 umbra and not long range weapon.

RabidWeasel · April 2004

Spumbra is a good idea. It gives the lerk its niche back (early ranged attacker) without nerfing its support abilities, and makes it worth the 30 res cost. It also stops very early game lerking being able to totally cripple marines (not often seen but it is an issue IMO.) At the very least combining spores and umbra should be tried.

I wish I hadn't read that now, if it's not in the new beta I'm going to be really disappointed <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Boy_who_lost_his_wings · April 2004

im not at all, they havent even show us a changelog

CommunistWithAGun · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Apr 20 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Great, even slower respawn times... Boredom and easy spawnkilling isn't the way to make combat shorter. The only reason games are so long is because the majority of chair/hive attacks are erased by Gorges and Welders.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
So don't die? If your team dies so much that the spawn cue is annoying....DONT DIE.

Salvation_r2 · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Apr 20 2004, 09:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Apr 20 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Great, even slower respawn times... Boredom and easy spawnkilling isn't the way to make combat shorter. The only reason games are so long is because the majority of chair/hive attacks are erased by Gorges and Welders. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
So don't die? If your team dies so much that the spawn cue is annoying....DONT DIE.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
exacly

Hybridclaw · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salvation.r2 @ Apr 20 2004, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Apr 20 2004, 09:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Apr 20 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Great, even slower respawn times... Boredom and easy spawnkilling isn't the way to make combat shorter. The only reason games are so long is because the majority of chair/hive attacks are erased by Gorges and Welders. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
So don't die? If your team dies so much that the spawn cue is annoying....DONT DIE. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
exacly  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
or just take a littlle nap while waiting to spawn in <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

SmoodCroozn · April 2004

I think that the Spumbra idea is nice, each ability could be reduced to 1/2 or 1/3 it's original strength, but I really don't think that the fact that umbra let's spikes go through while high velocity bullets are not makes sense. Perhaps it also works against the lerk as well, that way, spikes will be more specialized. Spumbra could be half the strategh of both umbra and spores combined, BUT it also blocks spikes.

Kepa · April 2004

I'd really like to see spore+umbra attempted. It seems that the lerk in classic is a pretty neglected class at the moment. This is especially true of lerks that provide umbra support. This might be because the benefit of shooting umbra on your teammates is pretty hard to grasp, outside of its description in the beta manual.

You don't get any points for shooting umbra on someone, you put yourself at risk, and you can't notice the effect of it unless you're gassing yourself. Providing umbra support is usually a thankless job, maybe adding the spore effect to umbra would add some incentive to provide lerk support.

BizZy_9mm_Messiah · April 2004

Excited wouldn't the word I use to describe my feelings for this Beta 4 release. If anything I am very curious to see if this release will cause me to fall in love all over again with NS or draw me further away from it's reach...

<3 1.0-1.04 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Kwil · April 2004

Spumbra is a serious Lerk boost for pubbers.
No longer is there any confusion for lerks between what they're doing... no more anguished cries of "No! Umbra the hive!" or "Don't spore the heavies!" because Spumbra will take care of that.. skulks can run around heavies knowing that the Lerk won't be absolutely useless by firing green clouds at the group.

Clanners won't notice so much, since one assumes they know what the heck they're doing anyway.

Add spikes as well? This would definitely be the middle ramp class between Skulk and Fade. Spikes would also completely negate electricity, unless they don't do structure damage.

Yeah, that's a pretty hefty balance change there.. I don't expect to see it, not this close to release.

matchbox · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Apr 21 2004, 05:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Add spikes as well? This would definitely be the middle ramp class between Skulk and Fade. Spikes would also completely negate electricity, unless they don't do structure damage.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yes, good luck trying to spike down 3000 health TFs or even better 6000 health RTs.

EvenFlow · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (matchbox @ Apr 21 2004, 06:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Apr 21 2004, 05:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Add spikes as well? This would definitely be the middle ramp class between Skulk and Fade. Spikes would also completely negate electricity, unless they don't do structure damage. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes, good luck trying to spike down 3000 health TFs or even better 6000 health RTs. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Lol, I just treat it the same way I treat devour, coffee break. Rest something on your fire button and get up to go make some coffee.

eAi · April 2004

Although spikes were seriously ineffective against almost anything, they did have their uses, and removing them from the Lerk does make lerks useless for attacking structures (particularily electrified ones), when they have any sort of defence. I remember a few occasions when I've used spikes (double res at hera) to take out turret factories (its slow), where it'd have been hard with anything else (except onos maybe)...

eAi

Ajurian · April 2004

spore combined with umbra would be handy, especially with people who cant seem to tell the difference. I dont know how many times I've yelled "UMRBA ON THE <insert object>" only to see green clouds appear everywhere.

Zek · April 2004

The drawback of Spumbra, as plenty of vets were screaming about on IRC last night, is that it pulls Spores out of Hive 1 and puts even more importance on Hive 2.

I still like the idea, just though I'd provide the other side of the argument. It's true that Hive 1 aliens are seriously weak in the current build and that Hive 2 is a crucial enough upgrade as it is. I personally would like the see the Bite/Spike/Spumbra/Primal plan go in, and then aliens and/or Lerks improved in other ways for Hive 1, which needed to be done anyway.

remi · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kepa @ Apr 21 2004, 04:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'd really like to see spore+umbra attempted. It seems that the lerk in classic is a pretty neglected class at the moment. This is especially true of lerks that provide umbra support. This might be because the benefit of shooting umbra on your teammates is pretty hard to grasp, outside of its description in the beta manual.

You don't get any points for shooting umbra on someone, you put yourself at risk, and you can't notice the effect of it unless you're gassing yourself. Providing umbra support is usually a thankless job, maybe adding the spore effect to umbra would add some incentive to provide lerk support.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This is what I meant by boosting it's support role. Now there will actually be incentive to umbra people, i mean you're likely to actually get some kills... Or at least seriously weaken them.

Replying to the guy who said it would make less of a support role due to spike kills... That is support. Spikes are weak, they just help weaken people, just like spores. They are long range, and most of all, if spores and umbra are merged, that will be much more common, so as said above, lerk will be used as more of a support class much more often. Which is what should happen.

The hive2 thing bothers me a little... I don't like the idea of no spores for first hive... but umbra for second hive was almost never used, the people that do use it don't even really see the effect, they just know that they seem to die slower. It's not like you have any indication it's blocking bullets. Kind of like how spores gives no indication that the marines are being hurt. With the two merged, the hive 2 ability will be much more deadly, and much more used.

Kwil · April 2004

Hm, a weird thought..

Hive 0: Bite
Hive 1: Nerfed Spumbra
Hive 2: Beefed Spikes
Hive 3: Primal Scream

Zek · April 2004

Umbra on Hive 1 won't ever work, unless you nerf it so much that it suffers in the late game where Aliens need it the most.

Rapier7 · April 2004

Why not just take out Primal Scream out altogether...

Bring back spikes, buff spores, puts spores in hive 2 slot, make umbra area-of-effect larger and put that in hive 3.

That could work quite well.

demonx · April 2004

But primal scream can be useful. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

CommunistWithAGun · April 2004

Spumbra will not be in NS

Torgo · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Apr 21 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Spumbra will not be in NS  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Ah, thanks Flayra for the info! Oh wait...you're not Flayra...

Beta 4

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