Well, if you are going to implement the radio thing. You will probably need something <i>like</i> hivesight for the defenders. Its the easiest way for them to know the location of each other (like the way the magically do in MG), and its the easiest way to take that away from them.
Tranq...as in long distance you shoot tranq, if close ...snappy snappy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sure, have stuff that people can climb onto or use, but other than that jumping for the most part is used 99% of the time in multiplayer games to try to avoid getting hit. Not only does it not usually work, but it looks awful in any "realistic" game. Take the focus off the jump key and force players to sprint for cover or hide.
It worked wonderfully for Hitman, by the way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Mar 27 2004, 10:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Mar 27 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like the shoot out the radio idea, that's good. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Er...What shoot out the radio idea?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Customizable gadgets. I don't really like the idea, as it presents a problem on 1) balancing 2) coding 3) teacher players how to use it, and also that's not how it happens in real life. While we aren't a "realism" game, we are going after a certain level of authenticity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DOOM, It's your mod, but I think this is a great idea, personally. I mean, the quick access tree in NS would be able to do this perfectly.
Could have, say, a total of 4 components... So you could have a proximity mine with a laser and a sound sensor coming out of it, but it only turns on a light, or you could have a phosphorous HE mine with silent alarm, but only has a proxy trigger...
But, I see how it would make needless complications.
Something you should keep in mind for the maps though.. They should have lots and lots of different places and things that the spies can climb on. For instance, the warehouse level in SP:PT (fullversion), has 6 different ways a spy can get in the room, and then huge ammounts of crates on the floor. Not to mention the three beams overhead that he can hand-over-hand crawl on, the two vents, and the pipes on the side to get to the catwalk unseen.
If you make this mod, the maps will either make it or break it. If the maps are complex and innovative, fluid real-world locations with many ways to get everywhere, then noone would ever tire from them. Otherwise, it's going to drag you down.
Simply being able to build my own gadgets, and the differing gameplay this would create, would greatly influence my desire to play such a mod/game (12 gadgets in SC:PT get kinda boring, and each side only gets 6).
I admit it, I'm a gimmick ***** (can you guess what word that is? =P). I love gimmicks, they make me feel warm and fuzzy.
I'll see if I can come up with any ideas for the game =)
Oh, and (depending on what this looks like in your head, it might not work out too well) a number of different spawn points for spies would be really kewl.
I would also like for each device to have a code and some attachment that triggers another code. Like entities in mapping.
You could have a simple device that's just a tripline hooked up to a transmitter that activates four other devices. Four floodlights, four mines, four gassers.
But that would probably confuse the hell outta CS imports.
What I'd like is to be able to set up traps to work in an group.
Example: Tripping a tripline causes a spotlight to focus on you, some disorientation gas releases, and a sensor activates to reveal your position.
For balance, if the spy finds the trigger device he can open the panel and disable it. To disable it, he would have a multi-tool that he can "attack" the trigger device. He would bend down and open the panel, then you'd get a view of the circuit board. You can choose to either disable it, cut a few wires or just wreck the circuits. Disabling it takes long, but works 90% of the time. Cutting a few wires works 50% of the time and takes slightly less time. Wrecking the circuits works 30% of the time and only takes a little while.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
on the mention of team size:
If any one has played a Hunted only TFC server (Got Hunted?) you will understand what I am gona explain.
Limiting the Spys numbers is definatly a good idea, force them into ussing stealth instead of being able to just for hit squads.
As For maps and this, I think there generaly need to be areas that the defenders either can't get to or it is VERY hard for them to (think of hunted from TFC, the assassins had fre run of most of the uper sections of the buildings, and though the guards COULD get there, it required alot of skill/teamwork).
So basicaly seriously lower the #of spys, however, give them some sorta map/movement superiority to make up for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Thansal+Mar 28 2004, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Mar 28 2004, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> on the mention of team size:
If any one has played a Hunted only TFC server (Got Hunted?) you will understand what I am gona explain.
Limiting the Spys numbers is definatly a good idea, force them into ussing stealth instead of being able to just for hit squads.
As For maps and this, I think there generaly need to be areas that the defenders either can't get to or it is VERY hard for them to (think of hunted from TFC, the assassins had fre run of most of the uper sections of the buildings, and though the guards COULD get there, it required alot of skill/teamwork).
So basicaly seriously lower the #of spys, however, give them some sorta map/movement superiority to make up for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I enjoyed being an assassin on the Hunted level because you just knew there were places you could be safe. And there were an infinite amount of places you could hide in (hell, you could even hide in the hunted's escape car <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->). Like you said the medics and soldiers tend to go on the roof. With extreme teamwork I've managed to get on the roof as a Heavy. If you've got a <i>really</i> good shot as an assassin you can snipe them out the air.
Good times <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Summary: Yes, I would like to see areas only the stealthy guys could get to.
how about not allowing the spies to respawn? and giving the defenders a limited number of respawns (in waves)
this would would force the spies to use their stealth to its full ability, overwise they're gonna be having a real short game as well as representing a limited number of them being sent to the mission, while the wave respawn of the defenders imitates reinforcements being sent in.
that reminds me of something else. How are the defenders going to win? in stealth mod it was just kindof and endless stream of attackers and defenders trading kills back and forth, but since we know that in Espionage the attackers will be clearing objectives, what is the goal of the defenders (asside from the endless killing). Are we going to adopt the workable but dated time limit system (because everyone knows in real life spies only have 30 minutes to complete thier objectives), or a limited lives system (which won't go over real well when your one of the first to die and end up waiting for eveyone else to finish the massive map). I guess the former presents less gameplay problems, but I wish a better alternitive could be found.
Well here's a random thought I just had that depends on how realistic you want to make the game. Give the defenders infinite respawn and the attackers one life. When the attackers all die the defenders win, however, after dying the attackers essentially become ghosts with the ability to mess with the defender's minds with noises, lights, etc. The ghosts would be invulnerable and perhaps allow them to make themselves visible or invisible. Seems far-fetched I know, but I think it could fix the death-boredom problem.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
I think the "Guns" people should have a melee attack. Press the melee key and you swing your gun, like in Halo. I know the spies are supposed to dominate in melee combat, but if you see a spy lunging for you, you should be able to knock them on their **** for letting you see them.
Oh, and make to include lots of mandatory crashes and lockups, as "homage" to Splinter Cell. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-big jim+Mar 28 2004, 04:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (big jim @ Mar 28 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> how about not allowing the spies to respawn? and giving the defenders a limited number of respawns (in waves)
this would would force the spies to use their stealth to its full ability, overwise they're gonna be having a real short game as well as representing a limited number of them being sent to the mission, while the wave respawn of the defenders imitates reinforcements being sent in.
edit - spelling <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah. In a 64 person game, that could be a half-hour of waiting.
Or do it in a type of Dustbowl style: Attackers get major points for completing objectives (lets say, 100 per objective), and defenders get points over time for defending (maybe 10 per minute).
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster.
<!--QuoteBegin-Renegade+Mar 28 2004, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Mar 28 2004, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey DOOM, how come you never respond to my PM's on mIRC? I assume you still want me as a consultant? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I never got them. That's certainly odd. O.o
Yes I definately would still like you to be a consultant if you want to, though there won't be much need until HL2 actually ships.
Probably e-mailing me is the most reliable way to get ahold of me, my address is in my sig.
<!--QuoteBegin-TenSix+Mar 28 2004, 10:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Mar 28 2004, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or do it in a type of Dustbowl style: Attackers get major points for completing objectives (lets say, 100 per objective), and defenders get points over time for defending (maybe 10 per minute).
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Great idea! :)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or do it in a type of Dustbowl style: Attackers get major points for completing objectives (lets say, 100 per objective), and defenders get points over time for defending (maybe 10 per minute).
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so we play until the attackers capture all the objectives, and then, if it took them too long, the defenders still win? Or do we play timed rounds until the map cycles and the winner is whoever has the highest total then?
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
yah, if attackers capp all points, round over.
If they take to friken long, round over.
As for limited respawns? Dear god no, especialy not in a stealth based game. Waiting for one camper in CS to friggen DIE is bad enugh, now you gota wait for 2 teams that are basicaly both suposed to camp (defenders defend, and stealthers are probably gona spend most of their time waiting for proper timing and what not)
Honestly, I think TFC can be a VERY good example of how certain things could work well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Hunted shows how stealth vs guns can work (I assume that the stealthers still are gona get sniper rifles, yes?) Dustbowl is good for progresive capture style.
Another random thought was that of the ticket system from BF1942. I have never actualy played BF online (I played it ALOT on a LAN) and with the ticket system (and various things effecting said tickets) you can still have 'eliminate the OpFor', however if you make it so that compleating objectives lowers the other teams tickets (hack a comp and they drop 50 spawns).
Just more ideas <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't even think of the ticket system, I could totally see it working in the context of this game. It neither demands the attackers to capture all objectives each round nor boxes the game into a solid time limit. I like this idea myself, then we can score the teams based on skill, not on how well they manage thier time.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
well, I would personaly think that it COULD be used as a time limit also.
The nice thing about it is that it is a simple system that is the same for every map (your tickets go away, and you are out). And at the same time each map could use it to create any sort of goals they wanted: *Spys tickets slowly degrade. *The more points the spys cap the slower their tickets degrade/faster the guns go down. *Each time the Spys knock off an objective the guns tickets drop by x. *Guards can activate certain pieces of equipment/what not and the spys tickets get knocked down.
You could even have a map where the spys are the ones defending (sorta) and the guards attacking: Scenerio: Spys have managed to infiltrate and remove all opposition, However the automated security (even if it is just the safe or something) is a pain in the but to crack. This gave the Guns enugh time to chopper in reinforcments.
Now the spys have a couple of time consuming objectives (hack certain computers, blow/cut through certain walls), and the Guns have objectives also (re establish key positions, Turn the generator back on, get the automatic defensives activated etc etc).
And all of these things can be rewarded either by knocking off tickets on the OpFor or by simple strategic advantages (turning the lights back on).
If this could be combined with Dynamic Spawn Points (ala BF1942) then you have even more objectives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you havn't knowticed, I am very taken by BF's style of maps. They alow the mapper to create alot of different cenerios and rewards (you take an air field and you have planes to go after the enemy now etc etc)
Comments
Tranq...as in long distance you shoot tranq, if close ...snappy snappy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Im serious.
Sure, have stuff that people can climb onto or use, but other than that jumping for the most part is used 99% of the time in multiplayer games to try to avoid getting hit. Not only does it not usually work, but it looks awful in any "realistic" game. Take the focus off the jump key and force players to sprint for cover or hide.
It worked wonderfully for Hitman, by the way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Er...What shoot out the radio idea?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DOOM, It's your mod, but I think this is a great idea, personally. I mean, the quick access tree in NS would be able to do this perfectly.
Could have, say, a total of 4 components... So you could have a proximity mine with a laser and a sound sensor coming out of it, but it only turns on a light, or you could have a phosphorous HE mine with silent alarm, but only has a proxy trigger...
But, I see how it would make needless complications.
Something you should keep in mind for the maps though.. They should have lots and lots of different places and things that the spies can climb on. For instance, the warehouse level in SP:PT (fullversion), has 6 different ways a spy can get in the room, and then huge ammounts of crates on the floor. Not to mention the three beams overhead that he can hand-over-hand crawl on, the two vents, and the pipes on the side to get to the catwalk unseen.
If you make this mod, the maps will either make it or break it. If the maps are complex and innovative, fluid real-world locations with many ways to get everywhere, then noone would ever tire from them. Otherwise, it's going to drag you down.
I admit it, I'm a gimmick ***** (can you guess what word that is? =P). I love gimmicks, they make me feel warm and fuzzy.
I'll see if I can come up with any ideas for the game =)
Oh, and (depending on what this looks like in your head, it might not work out too well) a number of different spawn points for spies would be really kewl.
I would also like for each device to have a code and some attachment that triggers another code. Like entities in mapping.
You could have a simple device that's just a tripline hooked up to a transmitter that activates four other devices. Four floodlights, four mines, four gassers.
But that would probably confuse the hell outta CS imports.
--Scythe--
Example: Tripping a tripline causes a spotlight to focus on you, some disorientation gas releases, and a sensor activates to reveal your position.
For balance, if the spy finds the trigger device he can open the panel and disable it. To disable it, he would have a multi-tool that he can "attack" the trigger device. He would bend down and open the panel, then you'd get a view of the circuit board. You can choose to either disable it, cut a few wires or just wreck the circuits. Disabling it takes long, but works 90% of the time. Cutting a few wires works 50% of the time and takes slightly less time. Wrecking the circuits works 30% of the time and only takes a little while.
If it doesn't work, the trigger is set off.
If any one has played a Hunted only TFC server (Got Hunted?) you will understand what I am gona explain.
Limiting the Spys numbers is definatly a good idea, force them into ussing stealth instead of being able to just for hit squads.
As For maps and this, I think there generaly need to be areas that the defenders either can't get to or it is VERY hard for them to (think of hunted from TFC, the assassins had fre run of most of the uper sections of the buildings, and though the guards COULD get there, it required alot of skill/teamwork).
So basicaly seriously lower the #of spys, however, give them some sorta map/movement superiority to make up for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If any one has played a Hunted only TFC server (Got Hunted?) you will understand what I am gona explain.
Limiting the Spys numbers is definatly a good idea, force them into ussing stealth instead of being able to just for hit squads.
As For maps and this, I think there generaly need to be areas that the defenders either can't get to or it is VERY hard for them to (think of hunted from TFC, the assassins had fre run of most of the uper sections of the buildings, and though the guards COULD get there, it required alot of skill/teamwork).
So basicaly seriously lower the #of spys, however, give them some sorta map/movement superiority to make up for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I enjoyed being an assassin on the Hunted level because you just knew there were places you could be safe. And there were an infinite amount of places you could hide in (hell, you could even hide in the hunted's escape car <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->). Like you said the medics and soldiers tend to go on the roof. With extreme teamwork I've managed to get on the roof as a Heavy. If you've got a <i>really</i> good shot as an assassin you can snipe them out the air.
Good times <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Summary: Yes, I would like to see areas only the stealthy guys could get to.
this would would force the spies to use their stealth to its full ability, overwise they're gonna be having a real short game as well as representing a limited number of them being sent to the mission, while the wave respawn of the defenders imitates reinforcements being sent in.
edit - spelling
Oh, and make to include lots of mandatory crashes and lockups, as "homage" to Splinter Cell. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
this would would force the spies to use their stealth to its full ability, overwise they're gonna be having a real short game as well as representing a limited number of them being sent to the mission, while the wave respawn of the defenders imitates reinforcements being sent in.
edit - spelling <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah. In a 64 person game, that could be a half-hour of waiting.
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster.
I never got them. That's certainly odd. O.o
Yes I definately would still like you to be a consultant if you want to, though there won't be much need until HL2 actually ships.
Probably e-mailing me is the most reliable way to get ahold of me, my address is in my sig.
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great idea! :)
Point allocation being in control of the mapper even, the faster paced you wanted a map to be, the more points per minute you could give defenders. Thus forcing attackers to... um... attack and work faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so we play until the attackers capture all the objectives, and then, if it took them too long, the defenders still win? Or do we play timed rounds until the map cycles and the winner is whoever has the highest total then?
If they take to friken long, round over.
As for limited respawns?
Dear god no, especialy not in a stealth based game. Waiting for one camper in CS to friggen DIE is bad enugh, now you gota wait for 2 teams that are basicaly both suposed to camp (defenders defend, and stealthers are probably gona spend most of their time waiting for proper timing and what not)
Honestly, I think TFC can be a VERY good example of how certain things could work well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hunted shows how stealth vs guns can work (I assume that the stealthers still are gona get sniper rifles, yes?)
Dustbowl is good for progresive capture style.
Another random thought was that of the ticket system from BF1942. I have never actualy played BF online (I played it ALOT on a LAN) and with the ticket system (and various things effecting said tickets) you can still have 'eliminate the OpFor', however if you make it so that compleating objectives lowers the other teams tickets (hack a comp and they drop 50 spawns).
Just more ideas <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The nice thing about it is that it is a simple system that is the same for every map (your tickets go away, and you are out). And at the same time each map could use it to create any sort of goals they wanted:
*Spys tickets slowly degrade.
*The more points the spys cap the slower their tickets degrade/faster the guns go down.
*Each time the Spys knock off an objective the guns tickets drop by x.
*Guards can activate certain pieces of equipment/what not and the spys tickets get knocked down.
You could even have a map where the spys are the ones defending (sorta) and the guards attacking:
Scenerio:
Spys have managed to infiltrate and remove all opposition, However the automated security (even if it is just the safe or something) is a pain in the but to crack. This gave the Guns enugh time to chopper in reinforcments.
Now the spys have a couple of time consuming objectives (hack certain computers, blow/cut through certain walls), and the Guns have objectives also (re establish key positions, Turn the generator back on, get the automatic defensives activated etc etc).
And all of these things can be rewarded either by knocking off tickets on the OpFor or by simple strategic advantages (turning the lights back on).
If this could be combined with Dynamic Spawn Points (ala BF1942) then you have even more objectives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you havn't knowticed, I am very taken by BF's style of maps. They alow the mapper to create alot of different cenerios and rewards (you take an air field and you have planes to go after the enemy now etc etc)