LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
What's the price range on a Screaming Box? I'm pretty sure they'd use it, if it even exists, if it wasn't to expensive. Wouldn't the wolves just go around them? I'm pretty sure wolves aren't stupid and will just run away from a loud noise. They're probably just jolt back then come back and mess around with the Screaming Box noticing it's no threat. And how's a gun less efficient? I'm pretty sure this Screaming Box is going to cost a lot more than a gun and some bullets. Oh, and you have to have multiple Screaming Boxes to cover all your area.
They could get Jurassic Park fences, blow the wolves up when they touch it.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited March 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Zig+Mar 14 2004, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zig @ Mar 14 2004, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i don't get it. sometimes there are reasons for killing animals like that... like in reefs around the world, infestations of sea stars are destroying entire fields of coral. marine biologists are trying to devise something, a poison, a solution.
but sometimes we humans can <i>do better</i>..
there's gotta be some kind of <i>deterrent</i> to keep predators away from livestock, but for money's sake the farmer would rather just have the predators killed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sadly, humans never understand that we exist as part of a balanced ecosystem. The moment those Wolves were killed, you basically chopped off the top tier of a highly complex food chain, with probable disasterous results.
Nature is self correcting. It always has been, and always will been. The Crown-of-Thorns starfish epidemic will cease, through either plague or natural predation as something else will change it's diet basis.
Every attempt to meddle or modify these balances always results in disaster, but due to the nature of human life (less than a century lifespan) we are very immediate creatures, and want results <i>yesterday</i>.
Incidentally, Wolves (despite 3,000,000 women & men who think they are, or wish they were) are no more group intelligent than any other mammal. They act, are acted upon & react. A 'Screaming Box' will act upon them, they will react with the fear they are instinctively programmed to do, and eventually in time come to act against that space in their domain.
<!--QuoteBegin-Shockwave+Mar 15 2004, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Mar 15 2004, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [The moment those Wolves were killed, you basically chopped off the top tier of a highly complex food chain, with probable disasterous results. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, but see, we hunt their food as well, so it ends up much like a double win situation.
I'm all for preservations and such but theres a few points I want to make <ul><li>Many extreme "green-peace" types advocate the violent protesting against environmental hazards</li><li>Humans have a right to survive by their own means too</li><li>I agree its sad to see animals become extinct, but it comes down to survival of the fittest.</li><li>Harming a human to save an animal is a bit contrived</li></ul>
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Mar 15 2004, 02:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Mar 15 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <ul><li>I agree its sad to see animals become extinct, but it comes down to survival of the fittest.</li></ul> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not when we do it against all others so effectively we damage our own foodchain. We as a species are currently way above our population level as it should be. This is having huge effects on other life.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited March 2004
Yeah, killing some random wolf pack will surely trigger the acopalypse (sp?)
EDIT: Shockwave, humans are a part of nature as well, last time I heard.. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nature is self correcting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cpl.Davis+Mar 15 2004, 02:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Mar 15 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> After reading the last posts...
I thought they were just killing off overpopulated areas of wolves not trying to hunt them to exinction... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Extinction or not, 1600+ Wolves out of only 8000ish is rediculous. In terms of total population sizes.. that's the proportional equivilent of killing 70 million humans give or take a few million.... <span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'>(NB - Total global wolf population is around 200k. Total human population around 7 Billion)</span>
Are we getting the idea yet on how significant this is yet?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Mar 15 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Mar 15 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDIT: Shockwave, humans are a part of nature as well, last time I heard.. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nature is self correcting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really anymore. We've seperated ourselves mostly from any ecosystems we were once part of, surpressing where possible anything that may prey upon us (see the extinction of the European & Australian Wolves) and mass herding those we prey upon.
as a vegetarian who cares immensely about animals, I don't see why people get up in arms about killing wolves or geese or other animals that are dangerous or pests, but no one cares about the mechanized genocide of cows and chickens and the like. at least a hungry cow wouldn't rip out anyone or anything's throat if given the chance...
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited March 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Beast+Mar 15 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beast @ Mar 15 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cpl.Davis+Mar 15 2004, 02:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Mar 15 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> After reading the last posts...
I thought they were just killing off overpopulated areas of wolves not trying to hunt them to exinction... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Extinction or not, 1600+ Wolves out of only 8000ish is rediculous. In terms of total population sizes.. that's the proportional equivilent of killing 70 million humans give or take a few million.... <span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'>(NB - Total global wolf population is around 200k. Total human population around 7 Billion)</span>
Are we getting the idea yet on how significant this is yet? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What kind of staticstic is this? 200k is alot for a large predator mammal so why worry about them?
EDIT: Most of the wolf site has an obvious bias and might, ermh, exggerate with the stats..
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoZombie+Mar 15 2004, 05:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Mar 15 2004, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> as a vegetarian who cares immensely about animals, I don't see why people get up in arms about killing wolves or geese or other animals that are dangerous or pests, but no one cares about the mechanized genocide of cows and chickens and the like. at least a hungry cow wouldn't rip out anyone or anything's throat if given the chance... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Neither do Wolves. But then again, I'm not against the killing of animals for food. I know where my place in the food chain is. It's at the top. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you want some other ideas for vegetarianism, try <a href='http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html' target='_blank'>here.</a>
N.B This (as is the target site) is intended as partially tongue-in-cheek. Don't get all serious on me.
I'm going to assume I am the only person who supports fox hunting here and will leave it at that.
Different subject I know but related very closely.
I don't see the big deal here to be honest, farmers today are facing crises like never before and it is crucial to the economic welfare of most countries that farmers are able to survive and produce produce (boom boom) if the wolves have been attacking cattle, which it would appear they have, then the farmers have rights in order to defend their property and it is the state's right to help them, for each others benefit.
I'm going to get a wolf costume, a high powered rifle, and hide where wolves are being killed, then when some **** hunter takes a pot shot at me I'll fire back in self defense! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-GreyPaws+Mar 15 2004, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Mar 15 2004, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to get a wolf costume, a high powered rifle, and hide where wolves are being killed, then when some **** hunter takes a pot shot at me I'll fire back in self defense! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting idea XD
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->..then the farmers have rights in order to defend their property and it is the state's right to help them, for each others benefit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can somewhat understand defending the cattle right there and then if the wolves are attacking...but going on a killing spree on the wolves afterwards..killing an entire pack because of the doings of one or two wolves...it's outrageous.. Some of them are completely innocent of the "crimes" charged.. They were killed just because they happened to be in the same pack as the "offenders"...
If someone is sent to deathrow (human), do we send their family as well? Why is it different for wolves? "dumb animals" or not, <i>they still have families that care for them</i> Look at a pack of wolves yourself and tell me this isn't the case? Why must the entire pack die for the doings of a few?
How would <u>you</u> like it if someone killed everyone in your family but you and your brother/sister, then captured and used you to lure your brother/sister back, so he could kill you both?
Why not think about that for a while, then make an opinion.
Apologies if this post seems soemewhat ranty. As you may have guessed this topic -does- mean something to me, unlike some of you "They are only wolves!!!!111oneoneone" people. (not saying any names <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Tell me Beast, would you really care so much if they were talking about slaughtering fish? Or maybe pidgeons?
Also, how do you know it wasn't just one or two wolves? Maybe the whole pack was going in seperately and at random times to attack the cattle? Just like they are the predators of the moose and the livestock there, we are the predators of them, so I think it's pretty fair. We just do something different with the carcass after we kill it.
The differnce is wolves aren't moving into areas where humans used to live in peace and without wolf presence. It's very much the reverse of that with humans expanding farther and farther into wolves' hunting and breeding grounds.
Just like when you read about a mountain lion attack to you it may mean mountain lions are getting more violent, I think it means people are building homes cloer to mountain lions.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mullet+Mar 15 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Mar 15 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could care less if they are killing wolves....It's not like they are endangered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny you should say that because a lot of them are.
wow. That struck me as just a tad ignorant Mullet. People are trying to PREVENT these animals from becoming endangered/extinct, that's the point. They're going to become an endangered species if people go on killing off wolves because they're eating livestock, instead of trying to find preventative measures before anything happens. It's the farmer's **** if he decides to raise cattle in an area formerly populated by predators imo. Just going on a thoughtless shooting of animals to protect livestock is partially why the tasmanian tiger is extinct, along with many other animals.
Ok I was going to avoid this because it is a major thread de-rail but so many of you are going on like they have a perfectly legitimate excuse to be killing these animals. The reason so much livestock is being killed by predators is because more and more farms are moving into areas which were previously uninhabited.
Food has become an enormous business in the US, and the key to the current fast food phenomenon is low prices for beef, dairy, etc. The only way to do this is to have a huge surplus of food to sell the companies so they can constantly flood the market and keep prices at bottom levels.
Sure we don't want to pay more for food, we have a right to be fed etc., etc. But have you ever stopped to think about why obesity is such a huge problem in the US, do you notice that there are at least 2 commercials for some sort of food products in every commercial break on any channel you turn to. The food industries are making quick bucks at the expense of our health and the stability of ecosystems, scaling down will not bring about the apocalypse and cause soaring prices it will simply reduce the amount of product flooding the market, and in turn lead to people actually eating within normal human limits.
<!--QuoteBegin-dr.d+Mar 15 2004, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Mar 15 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The differnce is wolves aren't moving into areas where humans used to live in peace and without wolf presence. It's very much the reverse of that with humans expanding farther and farther into wolves' hunting and breeding grounds.
Just like when you read about a mountain lion attack to you it may mean mountain lions are getting more violent, I think it means people are building homes cloer to mountain lions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, we should all go back to africa. In fact, I'll stop sleeping in my bed because the dust mites were there first, and it's not nice that I'm killing them by breathing. I'm not going to go to the grocery store anymore because it might have been the home to a ground squirrel at one time.
**** the wolves, what's the big deal? Why would I care more about the wolf then the Mink? The prairie dog? Because a handful of kooks think they're wolves inside a human being? Please...
They're endangered? I don't see you saying 'stop poaching of the California Condor!' or 'Save the orcas!'
It's not like the wolves are competitors for top of the food chain, why the negativity?
This topic was created because the wolves are being killed legally, and it's not ok to drive an animal into endangerment just because we need an extra cow in my opinion, and in many others'. I dont think the species involved with the livestock deaths are endangered, but even if they were im pretty sure it would be legal. There was a big court case a few years ago giving farmers the ok to kill wolves.
Last I checked praire dogs and eagles don't attack livestock. See my post about why I think this is a problem, the inherent wolf hunting doesn't bother me it's the reason for it that I have a problem with.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Mar 15 2004, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Mar 15 2004, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wow. That struck me as just a tad ignorant Mullet. People are trying to PREVENT these animals from becoming endangered/extinct, that's the point. They're going to become an endangered species if people go on killing off wolves because they're eating livestock, instead of trying to find preventative measures before anything happens. It's the farmer's **** if he decides to raise cattle in an area formerly populated by predators imo. Just going on a thoughtless shooting of animals to protect livestock is partially why the tasmanian tiger is extinct, along with many other animals. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Mullet @ Mar 15 2004, 07:00 PM) I could care less if they are killing wolves....It's not like they are endangered.
Funny you should say that because a lot of them are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well why not make posts about every animal that is being killed and is endangered? You guys make these posts making it seem like we are just slaughtering wolves.
Well about a dozen miles from where I live the FWS has put in experimental wolf populations, and at 760-some wolves and deemed 'fine' I can't imagine wolf populations are naturally very high ANYway...
Name another animal in north america that is getting killed off by angry farmers trying to protect their cows in land that is the hunting grounds for the animal in question, and is also so embedded into north american culture. That's why this is being talked about, and this is why the topic is at 4 pages and still going.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited March 2004
Grey wolves are an endangered species; there are approximately 2,500 of them in the 48 states and 10,000 in Alaska.
Red wolves, once found from Texas to Pennsylvania, are now thought to be extinct in the wild (red wolf genes may live on in gray wolf populations, but no pure representatives of the species are thought to exist in nature).
If we're really committed to preserving endangered species, we can't pick and choose cuddly ones over the less palatable ones. Never mind the fact that wolves and their relatives (dogs, which can still mate successfully with wolves and are therefore technically the same species) are intelligent, social animals who have been part of *human* history for millenia. They're also vital to the ecosystem; overhunting of wolves and mountain lions has caused prey animal populations to skyrocket, and of course deer are cute and cuddly and therefore killing *them* is a horrible offense. ___________
EEK, you're working your way towards a suspension. Learn to play nice with the other forumers or you're going to be taking time off. It's fine to have a different opinion, but at least respect the opinions of others.
Comments
They could get Jurassic Park fences, blow the wolves up when they touch it.
but sometimes we humans can <i>do better</i>..
there's gotta be some kind of <i>deterrent</i> to keep predators away from livestock, but for money's sake the farmer would rather just have the predators killed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, humans never understand that we exist as part of a balanced ecosystem. The moment those Wolves were killed, you basically chopped off the top tier of a highly complex food chain, with probable disasterous results.
Nature is self correcting. It always has been, and always will been. The Crown-of-Thorns starfish epidemic will cease, through either plague or natural predation as something else will change it's diet basis.
Every attempt to meddle or modify these balances always results in disaster, but due to the nature of human life (less than a century lifespan) we are very immediate creatures, and want results <i>yesterday</i>.
Incidentally, Wolves (despite 3,000,000 women & men who think they are, or wish they were) are no more group intelligent than any other mammal. They act, are acted upon & react. A 'Screaming Box' will act upon them, they will react with the fear they are instinctively programmed to do, and eventually in time come to act against that space in their domain.
Ah, but see, we hunt their food as well, so it ends up much like a double win situation.
<ul><li>Many extreme "green-peace" types advocate the violent protesting against environmental hazards</li><li>Humans have a right to survive by their own means too</li><li>I agree its sad to see animals become extinct, but it comes down to survival of the fittest.</li><li>Harming a human to save an animal is a bit contrived</li></ul>
Not when we do it against all others so effectively we damage our own foodchain. We as a species are currently way above our population level as it should be. This is having huge effects on other life.
EDIT: Shockwave, humans are a part of nature as well, last time I heard..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nature is self correcting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought they were just killing off overpopulated areas of wolves not trying to hunt them to exinction...
I thought they were just killing off overpopulated areas of wolves not trying to hunt them to exinction... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Extinction or not, 1600+ Wolves out of only 8000ish is rediculous. In terms of total population sizes.. that's the proportional equivilent of killing 70 million humans give or take a few million....
<span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'>(NB - Total global wolf population is around 200k. Total human population around 7 Billion)</span>
Are we getting the idea yet on how significant this is yet?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nature is self correcting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really anymore. We've seperated ourselves mostly from any ecosystems we were once part of, surpressing where possible anything that may prey upon us (see the extinction of the European & Australian Wolves) and mass herding those we prey upon.
a healthy ecosystem is one that retains all (or most) of its parts in a good ratio.
we're not really helping that.
I thought they were just killing off overpopulated areas of wolves not trying to hunt them to exinction... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Extinction or not, 1600+ Wolves out of only 8000ish is rediculous. In terms of total population sizes.. that's the proportional equivilent of killing 70 million humans give or take a few million....
<span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'>(NB - Total global wolf population is around 200k. Total human population around 7 Billion)</span>
Are we getting the idea yet on how significant this is yet? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of staticstic is this? 200k is alot for a large predator mammal so why worry about them?
EDIT: Most of the wolf site has an obvious bias and might, ermh, exggerate with the stats..
Neither do Wolves. But then again, I'm not against the killing of animals for food. I know where my place in the food chain is. It's at the top. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you want some other ideas for vegetarianism, try <a href='http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html' target='_blank'>here.</a>
N.B This (as is the target site) is intended as partially tongue-in-cheek. Don't get all serious on me.
Different subject I know but related very closely.
I don't see the big deal here to be honest, farmers today are facing crises like never before and it is crucial to the economic welfare of most countries that farmers are able to survive and produce produce (boom boom) if the wolves have been attacking cattle, which it would appear they have, then the farmers have rights in order to defend their property and it is the state's right to help them, for each others benefit.
Interesting idea XD
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->..then the farmers have rights in order to defend their property and it is the state's right to help them, for each others benefit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can somewhat understand defending the cattle right there and then if the wolves are attacking...but going on a killing spree on the wolves afterwards..killing an entire pack because of the doings of one or two wolves...it's outrageous.. Some of them are completely innocent of the "crimes" charged.. They were killed just because they happened to be in the same pack as the "offenders"...
If someone is sent to deathrow (human), do we send their family as well? Why is it different for wolves? "dumb animals" or not, <i>they still have families that care for them</i> Look at a pack of wolves yourself and tell me this isn't the case?
Why must the entire pack die for the doings of a few?
How would <u>you</u> like it if someone killed everyone in your family but you and your brother/sister, then captured and used you to lure your brother/sister back, so he could kill you both?
Why not think about that for a while, then make an opinion.
Apologies if this post seems soemewhat ranty. As you may have guessed this topic -does- mean something to me, unlike some of you "They are only wolves!!!!111oneoneone" people. (not saying any names <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Also, how do you know it wasn't just one or two wolves? Maybe the whole pack was going in seperately and at random times to attack the cattle? Just like they are the predators of the moose and the livestock there, we are the predators of them, so I think it's pretty fair. We just do something different with the carcass after we kill it.
Just like when you read about a mountain lion attack to you it may mean mountain lions are getting more violent, I think it means people are building homes cloer to mountain lions.
Funny you should say that because a lot of them are.
Food has become an enormous business in the US, and the key to the current fast food phenomenon is low prices for beef, dairy, etc. The only way to do this is to have a huge surplus of food to sell the companies so they can constantly flood the market and keep prices at bottom levels.
Sure we don't want to pay more for food, we have a right to be fed etc., etc. But have you ever stopped to think about why obesity is such a huge problem in the US, do you notice that there are at least 2 commercials for some sort of food products in every commercial break on any channel you turn to. The food industries are making quick bucks at the expense of our health and the stability of ecosystems, scaling down will not bring about the apocalypse and cause soaring prices it will simply reduce the amount of product flooding the market, and in turn lead to people actually eating within normal human limits.
Just like when you read about a mountain lion attack to you it may mean mountain lions are getting more violent, I think it means people are building homes cloer to mountain lions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, we should all go back to africa. In fact, I'll stop sleeping in my bed because the dust mites were there first, and it's not nice that I'm killing them by breathing. I'm not going to go to the grocery store anymore because it might have been the home to a ground squirrel at one time.
**** the wolves, what's the big deal? Why would I care more about the wolf then the Mink? The prairie dog? Because a handful of kooks think they're wolves inside a human being? Please...
They're endangered? I don't see you saying 'stop poaching of the California Condor!' or 'Save the orcas!'
This topic was created because the wolves are being killed legally, and it's not ok to drive an animal into endangerment just because we need an extra cow in my opinion, and in many others'. I dont think the species involved with the livestock deaths are endangered, but even if they were im pretty sure it would be legal. There was a big court case a few years ago giving farmers the ok to kill wolves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Mullet @ Mar 15 2004, 07:00 PM)
I could care less if they are killing wolves....It's not like they are endangered.
Funny you should say that because a lot of them are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well why not make posts about every animal that is being killed and is endangered? You guys make these posts making it seem like we are just slaughtering wolves.
Red wolves, once found from Texas to Pennsylvania, are now thought to be extinct in the wild (red wolf genes may live on in gray wolf populations, but no pure representatives of the species are thought to exist in nature).
If we're really committed to preserving endangered species, we can't pick and choose cuddly ones over the less palatable ones. Never mind the fact that wolves and their relatives (dogs, which can still mate successfully with wolves and are therefore technically the same species) are intelligent, social animals who have been part of *human* history for millenia. They're also vital to the ecosystem; overhunting of wolves and mountain lions has caused prey animal populations to skyrocket, and of course deer are cute and cuddly and therefore killing *them* is a horrible offense.
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EEK, you're working your way towards a suspension. Learn to play nice with the other forumers or you're going to be taking time off. It's fine to have a different opinion, but at least respect the opinions of others.