Sensory Chambers
civman2
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Cloaking effect is too strong.</div> Why can you run in the range of a sensory chamber? cloaking doesn't let you do that.
why don't we make it so you can only walk when inside a sensory, and run when you have cloaking AND inside a sensory. thanks.
why don't we make it so you can only walk when inside a sensory, and run when you have cloaking AND inside a sensory. thanks.
Comments
But no, Sensories are pretty overpowared. They need a nerf.
;)
Sensories are clearly overpowered, which obviously explains why they are seldomly used has a hive one chamber, but instead as a hive three chamber. Aliens just shouldn't be allowed to cloak. I've never seen an alien cloak in any other video game or movie; therefore, they shouldn't be allowed to cloak in Natural Selection to make it more realistic. Also, the marines have absolutely no counters to sensory chambers. I suggest they make motion-tracking track cloaking units, and the observatory be able to uncloak the entire map.
Props to the original poster, I agree with him 110%.
A great point sarcastically made.
Thats sad, real sad.
- RD
Answer--because they aren't.
Ever played against a focus fade in combat? Notice how tough they are to kill because they can kill you before you can unload an LMG clip? Notice how they're even tougher to kill when they're invisable? Notice how sensories make things invisable?
I'm talking about competetive play here, not pubs where cloaked aliens start biting before they're halfway to you. 25 res is a very large investment for a structure that has to be build on the battle lines (near a sensory chamber, so cloaked aliens can munch you while you build). And an obs only gives you 4 pings, and then like one ping every 30 seconds after that. Smart aliens will run away when you ping, and then you run out of pings and need a 2nd obs (ouch 25 more res).
But wait, why not just let the aliens cloak and go a different way? Now you're letting the sensories give the aliens map control, which will give them a second hive, which will get them stomp onos, meta/cara/focus fades, and nasty leap focus skulks. Aliens can be creeping up on you and you not even notice. Most maps have a few key choke points. A sensory in the vent above mess on nancy, or on the grating above generator on nothing, or in the vent in triad or psj on eclipse can spell deathtrap for marines in already dangerous rooms.
Motion tracking doesn't counter cloaking. Sensories block motion tracking in their radius. In fact, sensories counter motion tracking. The only thing that counters cloaking is pinging, and that takes a competant commander with an obs or two which is a lot of res to sink into just keeping your marines alive. I have no problem with alien camping. I think its good. I just think that if an alien can be bunny hopping across a room at full speed with focus, I should get to know before I die.
Armor doesn't counter focus. Almost every strat I have ever seen for aliens involves getting a lerk. Spores eat up armor. Two bites, or one bite and about 5 seconds of spores will completely eliminate the extra 20 armor gained from armor 1. That means a single bunnyhopping focus skulk can fly around the corner and down the hallway and bite you, and kill you, in one hit.
I bet you eleventy two dollars that sensory first will be as, if not more viable, then movement first in competitive play. It's better on certain maps, but even on ones its not great on, if played correctly it can be extremely powerful.
what are you waiting for, get back to flaming me. or maybe do the intelligent thing and make rebuttles to my points.
Besides, most people who do take advantage of sensory chambers usually make a straight line towards the marine, they don't dodge since cloaking gives a protected sort of feeling.
We must play on different servers. While there are always a few exceptions, most pub players I've seen understand how cloaking works. It's one of the less-oblique NS concepts; you attack, you de-cloak.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->25 res is a very large investment for a structure that has to be build on the battle lines (near a sensory chamber, so cloaked aliens can munch you while you build)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Build one in the MS. Ping.
2. Build one next to an elec RT.
3. Build one next to an elec TF.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But wait, why not just let the aliens cloak and go a different way? Now you're letting the sensories give the aliens map control<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The radius for SC area-cloaking is, in map coverage terms, really tiny. Larger rooms (like all hives) require two or more SCs to cover them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most maps have a few key choke points.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is exactly why cloak-ambushing as a defensive strategy fails. If you know you're going to be attacked at a certain location, the whole stealth factor is gone. You ping, the aliens appear, and it's a vanilla fight.
Same thing applies with aliens holding key areas like hives.
ANYTHING that is played correctly can be extremely powerful. I don't understand why you are even bothering to complain about sensories. It's like you've never seen an alien team use sensories effectively, and now that you have seen a team use it; you think it's overpowered because you got beat by it.
Props to that alien team you played, they showed everyone that sensory is just as good as any other chamber, and we should all learn from their examples.
Stop flaming civ because he has a point, sensory chambers are really good.
You can't kill a hive that is guarded by a focus fade, it's almost impossible if the fade just goes in, swipes, goes back out, goes back in, kill, wash rinse repeat.
However, I don't think sensory chambers are overpowered, but the are definatlely viable. Beating sensory chambers involves a two hive lockdown.
My suggestion - pass out shirtguns. Get some clothing on them aliens, and all your problems will be solved.
If that doesn't work, try shotguns - they mow through uncarpaced fades like the proverbial hot knife through butter.
If that doesn't work, d-load some skillz, or eject the com (cause he is obviously the root of all evil).
Or play on a server I frequent - I cant bite worth crap <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
sure a focus fade is tough (my friend just finished relating how he owned the marine team in combat single handed thanks to focus) but if the marine team pushes forward 'nade spamming all the way, anything short of a defenced onos dies within a second or two.
Just yesterday, 2 LMG 'rines with level 1 weapons took out a Lerk and an Onos. Its simply really, really pointless being a higher lifeform if you can't regenerate.
the reason defence is so mandatory is because out in battle aleins have no way to regian health sept for regen or gorge healing which we all know is extremly useless to anyone but a skulk.
ways to solve it?
1. give aleins basic regen and remove and replace regeneration skill.
2. improve the gorge so that he can be a frount line healer. improve gorge spit so that it is an actual fesible attack. gorges that can kill will solve tons of problems. gorges will now be a class poeple will WANT to be in regular ns and combat. Plus poeple will stop getting defence first because now they have easily accesable healing from a gorgie poo. gorge spit is the only ranged attack aleins have till hive 3.... lets atleast make it a good ranged attack.
I happen to agree. how come you can get 100% cloaking benefits... while running... from something you didn't even pay for, while personal cloaking sucks in comparison? 100% cloaking while moving is overpowered. and dont say "waaah the observatory negates all sensory." What if you're ... gasp ... not in your base? What if you mean to build an observatory and can't because you literally cannot detect cloaked aliens before it is too late?
I think a sens chamber should cloak things around it only 70%, which goes down to 50% if the alien is moving. If the alien has the cloaking upgrade, he becomes 90% invisible when near the sens chamber, and 75% while moving.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Build one in the MS. Ping.
2. Build one next to an elec RT.
3. Build one next to an elec TF.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. 4 times, then you're done. Wait about 3 minutes and you can ping some more. Pings last about 8 seconds. What if the aliens are smart and hide for those 8 seconds then pop out again and fight.
2 and 3. Right, because lots of people use elec in clan play. Then it takes one skulk and one gorg 12 seconds to healspray and bite your obs until it's dead. I mean I suppose you could have a guy there to guard it, but then what's the point of the elec? TF + Elec + Obs = 55 res. 55 res = a lot in clan play.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, ever seen a Hive 1 Sensory Onos?
Just yesterday, 2 LMG 'rines with level 1 weapons took out a Lerk and an Onos. Its simply really, really pointless being a higher lifeform if you can't regenerate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever seen a 1 Hive defence onos? They're so slow they take about 14 years to reach you and by then you've slaughtered them with an HMG. The correct way to play 1 hive sensory onos (which by the way is never correct unless you're facing turret farms; go focus fade) would be to get cloaking and be big and cloaked or to get scent of fear and stomp when you get second hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The radius for SC area-cloaking is, in map coverage terms, really tiny. Larger rooms (like all hives) require two or more SCs to cover them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this, that's why I advised building them in choke points and areas to cut marines off.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensories negate motion tracking in their area of influence, its expensive to set up an extensive sensory network. Sure they can be set up at key ambush areas, but if the commander is intelliengent he'll know where these spots are, and ping those areas that require it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of going gorg and building 4 OCs you can go gorg and drop 2 SCs and 2 OCs. Setting up a sensory network is really cost effective when you consider the amount of map control if gives you.
And while pinging is all fine and good, what if I built my sensory in a vent or somewhere else unaccessable? You're going to spend the res to siege it? get a GL? Good. waste your time. the sensory more than accomplished its goal of slowing the marines.
In that case, "all guns on fade" and he won't escape more then twice, as his health will simply run out.
If it's two hives, sc/dc, it's a bit more tricky. First of all, if you see this happening, get armor 2 before weap 1. It works.
Or, if you need immediate counter and it's clan play (organizing team play not an issue):
1. Welders. Render the spores completely and utterly useless unless used right before the fade hits. In which case you really should have armor 2 before weapon 1.
2. Insufficient teamwork to hand welders to the team for armor repair - Order marines to SHOOT DOWN THE SC when fade runs away for quick regen. SC has only 800 hp and gets torn down in a matter of seconds under an lmg volley from 2-3 marines. And after that, focus fade is no longer cloakable, which as I understand, is your main gripe.
In general, use the ping to locate SCs and have your marines terminate them with extreme prejudice. If you ignore the termination of SCs after ping, you deserve the increased death toll.
P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't observatory worth only 20 res? 25 is the arms lab's cost.
they barely attacked, and only from behind
and i was the first person to notice they had sensory, 2:30 in the game, and when i died.... i didnt spawn
part because of a bad comm
but mainly because sensory was used extremely well
i respect that clan
In that case, "all guns on fade" and he won't escape more then twice, as his health will simply run out.
If it's two hives, sc/dc, it's a bit more tricky. First of all, if you see this happening, get armor 2 before weap 1. It works.
Or, if you need immediate counter and it's clan play (organizing team play not an issue):
1. Welders. Render the spores completely and utterly useless unless used right before the fade hits. In which case you really should have armor 2 before weapon 1.
2. Insufficient teamwork to hand welders to the team for armor repair - Order marines to SHOOT DOWN THE SC when fade runs away for quick regen. SC has only 800 hp and gets torn down in a matter of seconds under an lmg volley from 2-3 marines. And after that, focus fade is no longer cloakable, which as I understand, is your main gripe.
In general, use the ping to locate SCs and have your marines terminate them with extreme prejudice. If you ignore the termination of SCs after ping, you deserve the increased death toll. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Put the SCs in vents and in difficult places to reach. Good luck killing a sensory chamber in the vent behind HS on eclipse or inside the PSJ vent.
Also, welders are a good solution, but that just adds cost and renders you even more susceptable to caught with your pants down by a cloaking skulk.
Focus fade needs to be played much differently then cara, and even regen, fade. You have to hit and run. Your goal isn't to kill everyone in one fell swoop. It's to pick the marines off one by one so they can't push on while they wait to be reinforced or so they can get owned by skulks.
1. Clan play is wildly divergent from pub play
2. Clan play has changed dramatically since 2.0
I readily admit I haven't played an organized 3.0 game, so perhaps I'm simply ill-qualified to comment on the utility of SCs in a competitive setting.
WRT to public server play, Sensory is significantly under-used and readily countered by any competent commander. Nerfing Sensory is likely to further cement the chamber's role as a third-hive gizmo chamber.
While I agree balancing for clan play is important, there are currently (according to ASE) some 2100 players (presumably) enjoying themselves on public servers.
Also hiding SC in the unreachable places is good, but if a commander is dumb enough to fail to notice that there's an SC that your team can't kill yet and still sends your marines to attack that place, he deserves every death he gets.
Wow. I hated some idea you posted in another thread but I like this one very much. Good call!
If aliens go sensory first, it's a match between the aliens' skill and the commander's skill. The marines themselves should have an easy time (compared to defense aliens) if they know how to aim and aliens are decloaked.
I'd like to hear more testimony from scrims of 2 good clans, one with a good commander and the other good with sensory.
Also, if a focus fade is godly with cloaking, would it still be godly without cloaking? If so, the problem isn't the sensory chamber's effect - it's the focus fade.