#findnsscrim On Irc.gamesurge.net
sugarmychurro
Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9746Members
Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9746Members
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Just try it, I'm sure you'll like it... it's a lot of fun working and reworking your strategies after games. And don't get discouraged if you lose a few, most of the NS clans today have been playing for awhile and (probably) have lots more experience at clan play than you do.
1) A lot of vets aren't quite... the most sterling members of the community. It's just a case of 'the bad grape spoils the bunch'. We've all seen the vets that join pubs just to completely ruin the game with exploits or their crappy attitude for 'fun'. However, because the NS clan community is small, this "small group" of players that act like this, unfortunatley, makes up a pretty big chunk of clanplay. I honestly wish we would root out these people and just banish them. I wish the clan play could be fun and friendly. Instead I've seen people joining pubs, commanding, then calling everyone 'stupid f****t noobs!' and leaving.
This is my number 1 reason I'll never join an NS clan. Note specifically I said NS. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> It pains even ME to say this, but this is the only game I've encountered with a clan community I have overall hatred for BECAUSE of those few rotten seeds.
Now on seperate, but related notes:
2) Many people don't have the time dedication to be in a clan.
3) Most people prefer a casual have-fun environment to a high pressure "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" one.
1) A lot of vets aren't quite... the most sterling members of the community. It's just a case of 'the bad grape spoils the bunch'. We've all seen the vets that join pubs just to completely ruin the game with exploits or their crappy attitude for 'fun'. However, because the NS clan community is small, this "small group" of players that act like this, unfortunatley, makes up a pretty big chunk of clanplay. I honestly wish we would root out these people and just banish them. I wish the clan play could be fun and friendly. Instead I've seen people joining pubs, commanding, then calling everyone 'stupid f****t noobs!' and leaving.
This is my number 1 reason I'll never join an NS clan. Note specifically I said NS. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> It pains even ME to say this, but this is the only game I've encountered with a clan community I have overall hatred for BECAUSE of those few rotten seeds.
Now on seperate, but related notes:
2) Many people don't have the time dedication to be in a clan.
3) Most people prefer a casual have-fun environment to a high pressure "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno I usually get "GJ team" even though we get our faces stomped in on a pug. That "OMG WE GOTTA WIN!" is just stereotypical crap. Yea some vets are real jerks but then again it's not just vets in nspugs.
1) A lot of vets aren't quite... the most sterling members of the community. It's just a case of 'the bad grape spoils the bunch'. We've all seen the vets that join pubs just to completely ruin the game with exploits or their crappy attitude for 'fun'. However, because the NS clan community is small, this "small group" of players that act like this, unfortunatley, makes up a pretty big chunk of clanplay. I honestly wish we would root out these people and just banish them. I wish the clan play could be fun and friendly. Instead I've seen people joining pubs, commanding, then calling everyone 'stupid f****t noobs!' and leaving.
This is my number 1 reason I'll never join an NS clan. Note specifically I said NS. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> It pains even ME to say this, but this is the only game I've encountered with a clan community I have overall hatred for BECAUSE of those few rotten seeds.
Now on seperate, but related notes:
2) Many people don't have the time dedication to be in a clan.
3) Most people prefer a casual have-fun environment to a high pressure "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" one. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not going to defend the vets that go on servers and say stuff like that but I will say that it is extremely frustrating (to me) to try to pub NS, simply because the tactics that are used on pubs are so boring and not skill oriented at all. Ex: using lots of TFs/Turrets and OCs and the commander generally not dropping medpacks. Pubs these days are pretty much 2 lines drawn with OCs and turrets then the marines get HA and make a push. Boring. Not to mention pub commanders hardly ever get armor1 before 15 minutes in, which is great for me if I am an alien, but is *very* frustrating especially when he won't drop you ammo or meds. As for exploiting, I don't know what you're talking about really. Bhop? It's here to stay, any other viewpoints are just scrubbish ( <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
Anyway, all I'm saying is that (imo) they are doing the right thing in the wrong way. If dislike the vets that are now (or disagree about what I said about tactics), then make your own clan and beat us with your own tactics <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It probably wouldn't be too hard to get together 6-10 regulars from a server you frequent and make a team with an IRC channel and stuff, and you'll have a lot of fun together bettering your strategies and improving. Not to mention, it's not a huge time sink either, you can scrim a 2-3 times a day in under 2 hours usually.
Lastly, clans don't have to be a "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" environment... you can make your clan for fun if you get fun from playing or whatever and not winning. All I'm saying is that NS would be a lot more fun for me and probably the rest of the vets if we got some more clans and some clan tactics started to be used on pubs. Shrug.
I hope you do realize that using that word as a way to say clanning is bad helps to make your argument completely irrelevent.
Vets who use exploits? Over anyone else? Huh?
As for the rest of your "main" argument it doesn't even make sense. There are bad vets, just like there are bad tempered pubbers.
No offense, but it seems to me that you are just igorant. Have you ever been in any clan that you are seem to judge so fast?
Take CommunistWithAGun for instance. He used to bash clanners all the time and believe we were a bunch of elitist retards, and so he wouldn't join a clan.
However, one day, he joined a clan, and his oppinion completely changed. He still probably thinks were are a bunch of elistist retards, but he learned that the same group of people he liked to hang out with before online can now be hung out with again in a nice friendly clan that suits his attitude well, and I'm sure he enjoy's playing with his clan as a nice change of pace from boring old pubs. (Don't get me wrong, pubs are still great sometimes)
I think your case is nothing more than a bad case of ignorance tbh.
1) A lot of vets aren't quite... the most sterling members of the community. It's just a case of 'the bad grape spoils the bunch'. We've all seen the vets that join pubs just to completely ruin the game with exploits or their crappy attitude for 'fun'. However, because the NS clan community is small, this "small group" of players that act like this, unfortunatley, makes up a pretty big chunk of clanplay. I honestly wish we would root out these people and just banish them. I wish the clan play could be fun and friendly. Instead I've seen people joining pubs, commanding, then calling everyone 'stupid f****t noobs!' and leaving.
This is my number 1 reason I'll never join an NS clan. Note specifically I said NS. :( It pains even ME to say this, but this is the only game I've encountered with a clan community I have overall hatred for BECAUSE of those few rotten seeds.
Now on seperate, but related notes:
2) Many people don't have the time dedication to be in a clan.
3) Most people prefer a casual have-fun environment to a high pressure "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" one. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not going to defend the vets that go on servers and say stuff like that but I will say that it is extremely frustrating (to me) to try to pub NS, simply because the tactics that are used on pubs are so boring and not skill oriented at all. Ex: using lots of TFs/Turrets and OCs and the commander generally not dropping medpacks. Pubs these days are pretty much 2 lines drawn with OCs and turrets then the marines get HA and make a push. Boring. Not to mention pub commanders hardly ever get armor1 before 15 minutes in, which is great for me if I am an alien, but is *very* frustrating especially when he won't drop you ammo or meds. As for exploiting, I don't know what you're talking about really. Bhop? It's here to stay, any other viewpoints are just scrubbish ( :) ).
Anyway, all I'm saying is that (imo) they are doing the right thing in the wrong way. If dislike the vets that are now (or disagree about what I said about tactics), then make your own clan and beat us with your own tactics :)
It probably wouldn't be too hard to get together 6-10 regulars from a server you frequent and make a team with an IRC channel and stuff, and you'll have a lot of fun together bettering your strategies and improving. Not to mention, it's not a huge time sink either, you can scrim a 2-3 times a day in under 2 hours usually.
Lastly, clans don't have to be a "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" environment... you can make your clan for fun if you get fun from playing or whatever and not winning. All I'm saying is that NS would be a lot more fun for me and probably the rest of the vets if we got some more clans and some clan tactics started to be used on pubs. Shrug.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I think we first need to define 'pub'. There's three types of games, I believe. Your basics noob-filled pub like G4B2S (Okay, I'm making an assumption here, but Voogru's servers used to be absolute retard magnets around 1.04, I figure it's still true). Then there's what I call the 'ascended pubs'. Redphive, where I usually play. Lunixmonster (Haven't played there as of late). Usually filled with regs who are just good. I play in those, exclusively. So I'll have to say that not all pubs are bad. The trick is FINDING that. However, being that we're mostly clanless it puts me in a position over this usual pub-bashing because this 'lack of tactics' and 'lack of skill' is completely untrue :D
As for Forlorn, well, I've learned to take ANYTHING you say with a grain of salt, but you want to know how many times I had seen vets pinging 70, but lagging like they're pinging 6000? I don't think rate exploiting was allowed by CAL. How many vets I see <b>now</b> that are using blatant hacks? After one got banned, we talked with Lightning Blue about it in the server (note: Playtester), and he said, I think, something to the effect of that this said vet is INFAMOUS for hacking (and in a very well-known clan might I add) in pubs. He doesn't use them in matches, no, thank god, but the fact that he uses whatever hacks he wants in a pub <b>specifically to ruin them</b> is absolute crap. Some guy uranium linked the demo he had made, it was pretty pathetically obvious. (Sensitivity is about 500, he walks around and his view jitters constantly like he's having a minor epileptic siezure. Then an alien comes near and he spins and 'locks on' to it and his aim is super pixel-smooth, then snaps back and jitters, in case you want to know what it looked like).
As for CWAG, you probably should know that he started in, got better by playing in lunixmonster.
He was banned specifically because of his attitude about everyone and everything clanless went to ****. He talked in the forums about how we're all just dirty pub folk and we don't deserve the beta test. So while his attitude about vets got better, he turned into the first reason I listed. But that's all I'm going to say about that, though, no sense in attacking him.
BTW: Don't talk about ignorance when your entire post was pretty much a sterling example of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No offense, but it seems to me that you are just igorant. Have you ever been in any clan that you are seem to judge so fast?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've been in a TFC clans for about a year and half, where we were rated something around number 12 in the UGL (beats me was years and years ago), I've been in an SOF2 clan for about 3/4 a year (left because I grew bored of the game), I've been in Tribes and Tribes 2 (Sapphire Blade, one of the most well known) clans. This attitude problem with clans > vets is <b>exclusive</b> to NS, I can safely say. It does exist in other game, yeah, but the problem in NS is the <b>sheer volume</b> of vets who are guilty of this.
Until you've join a clan, silence your opinions about clan play and clan attitudes, because they are not with any merrit or any sense of logic whatsoever. Thanks for generalizing, you make the NS community better by doing that.
Until you've join a clan, silence your opinions about clan play and clan attitudes, because they are not with any merrit or any sense of logic whatsoever. Thanks for generalizing, you make the NS community better by doing that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately there's no way to tell. The term 'veteran' should've been reserved for the best of the best clans. Then, Flayra set up the 'vet guidelines'. He <b>could've</b> added something in there about 'You're a VETERAN, you are better then everyone else. Keep that in mind, and prove that the NS clan scene is friendly and fun.' Unfortunately, most 'veterans' give the OPPOSITE impression.
As for your last borderline flame, my post had been edited before you posted.
And one more thing: If you think the vet attitude problem is only restricted to the clans formed only to win an ATI card, ho ho ho you're very very wrong. In fact, one of the first clans for NS is infamous for their absolute disregard for decency whatsoever. I can probably say that the ONLY clan I've never had a problem with is HAM or HAMBONE or whatever they're called. They're friendly, fun to play with, and kick my **** all the time <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
B) Pubs compare pathetically to pugs, scrims and matches, because there is some time before hand to organize whats going on.
C) I suggest you find a game community with no elitism or perhaps some clans with more decency. Find one better than NS, and stay there. Until then, get clearer opinions of more teams before you generalize, that way you won't come across as selectively ignorant on the forums. Thanks.
I suppose its impossible for non vet folk to NEVER cheat, because the super uberness of the uber cheats is only available to us close-ended, elitist, arrogant groups. Its impossible, because even if there was one with no clan tag, than he must be a vet in disguise SPECIFICALLY to ruin YOUR game. To think otherwise is Blashphemy right ?
So who's more full of ignorant BS? Me, who is pretty much saying what every pub server has had to tolerate at LEAST once? Or Firewater, who hides behind the actual problem with flames about how I'm ignorant and full of crap because I'm a pathetic pubber?
I think that pretty much rests MY case on this issue.
(And keep in mind, flamewater, <b>all</b> my experiences with **** veterans comes from the upper notch pubs, simply because I don't play anywhere else). It's not a matter of saying 'I'm losing because these people won't go to my waypoints, this pisses me off'. Hell even <b>I</b> feel like that sometimes. It's a matter of saying 'I'm losing not because we got outplayed... but uh.. I'M ON A PUB! YEAH! YOU SUCK YOU LOSERS, I'M GOING TO CRASH THE SERVER ON YOU!' It's usually pretty obvious which is which, ESPECIALLY when the entire team has obeyed every order, aim is fairly decent, but simply got outplayed.
However, I'm not being fair. The 'mightier then thou' problem I don't see quite that often as much as vets playing just to ruin the game (Possibly because the higher skill level in the players). Maybe 6 of them join, just to stack the same team. Or like I said, the abuse hacks, exploits, what have you. They scream "BS" when they get killed. *Shrug*. Like I said, you can't deny it, and if you do, YOU'RE the one full of 'ingnorance' so really, I think it'd be best if you just stopped trying to argue.
1) A lot of vets aren't quite... the most sterling members of the community. It's just a case of 'the bad grape spoils the bunch'. We've all seen the vets that join pubs just to completely ruin the game with exploits or their crappy attitude for 'fun'. However, because the NS clan community is small, this "small group" of players that act like this, unfortunatley, makes up a pretty big chunk of clanplay. I honestly wish we would root out these people and just banish them. I wish the clan play could be fun and friendly. Instead I've seen people joining pubs, commanding, then calling everyone 'stupid f****t noobs!' and leaving.
This is my number 1 reason I'll never join an NS clan. Note specifically I said NS. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> It pains even ME to say this, but this is the only game I've encountered with a clan community I have overall hatred for BECAUSE of those few rotten seeds.
Now on seperate, but related notes:
2) Many people don't have the time dedication to be in a clan.
3) Most people prefer a casual have-fun environment to a high pressure "OMG WE HAVE TO WIN NUBS!" one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's cuz the newbs suck and it's aggravating to have a drawn out lose that is the fault of other people
So who's more full of ignorant BS? Me, who is pretty much saying what every pub server has had to tolerate at LEAST once? Or Firewater, who hides behind the actual problem with flames about how I'm ignorant and full of crap because I'm a pathetic pubber?
I think that pretty much rests MY case on this issue.
(And keep in mind, flamewater, <b>all</b> my experiences with **** veterans comes from the upper notch pubs, simply because I don't play anywhere else). It's not a matter of saying 'I'm losing because these people won't go to my waypoints, this pisses me off'. It's a matter of saying 'I'm losing not because we got outplayed... but uh.. I'M ON A PUB! YEAH! YOU SUCK YOU LOSERS!' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you may have to tolerate it once, but how many times do the elite have to put up with people incompetant of the game?
Flamewater wow thats really creative you took the fire out of my name and switched it with flame to represent my explanation of your opinons. Brilliant, you should do something with that talent.
Oh if you want to call pubbers losers, feel free, I dont know why you would make fun of your own but then again, I really don't care.
And if all your experiences come from upper notch pubs, why not play some where else? Do you like playing with arrogant elitist people that cheat all the time, because that is indeed what we do.
So who's more full of ignorant BS? Me, who is pretty much saying what every pub server has had to tolerate at LEAST once? Or Firewater, who hides behind the actual problem with flames about how I'm ignorant and full of crap because I'm a pathetic pubber?
I think that pretty much rests MY case on this issue.
(And keep in mind, flamewater, <b>all</b> my experiences with **** veterans comes from the upper notch pubs, simply because I don't play anywhere else). It's not a matter of saying 'I'm losing because these people won't go to my waypoints, this pisses me off'. It's a matter of saying 'I'm losing not because we got outplayed... but uh.. I'M ON A PUB! YEAH! YOU SUCK YOU LOSERS!' <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you may have to tolerate it once, but how many times do the elite have to put up with people incompetant of the game? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll give you a moment to consider the absurdidty of this.
XD XD Yay!1
Feel free to refute my other points instead of implying that my capacity to understand your arguement. Or does your creativity end at "flamewater".
So who's more full of ignorant BS? Me, who is pretty much saying what every pub server has had to tolerate at LEAST once? Or Firewater, who hides behind the actual problem with flames about how I'm ignorant and full of crap because I'm a pathetic pubber?
I think that pretty much rests MY case on this issue.
(And keep in mind, flamewater, <b>all</b> my experiences with **** veterans comes from the upper notch pubs, simply because I don't play anywhere else). It's not a matter of saying 'I'm losing because these people won't go to my waypoints, this pisses me off'. It's a matter of saying 'I'm losing not because we got outplayed... but uh.. I'M ON A PUB! YEAH! YOU SUCK YOU LOSERS!' <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you may have to tolerate it once, but how many times do the elite have to put up with people incompetant of the game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll give you a moment to consider the absurdidty of this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Give up?
Vet - "I'm full of anger and angst because I can't play with people my skill level on a pub."
Pub - "Hey, I'm having fun. Weeee!" *Jumps off of Forbiding ledge*
Vet - "Therefore it's all everyone ELSES fault for my bad attitude. Afterall, there IS someone with a gun to my head FORCING me to play on these pub servers, right?"
If you can't stand the lower skill level of pubs, swallow a gun barrel and shoot yourself, why don't you. Vets just have a rotten attitude about everyone and everything clanless. You're proving THIS point with every single post you make. This 'well we're angst-filled because we can't plan our elaborate pre-game orgys' is simply full of crap. If you don't like the pub, stop playing in it. You think that "MiKeS nS SeRvEr v 3.0 omg rox" is going to be different then "GORGYORGY 3.0 YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111"?
So are you suggesting that vets don't pub? I guess it would keep those enviorments cheat free and elitist and arrogant free as well. Because only the clanners are arrogant and nasty and have the capability to cheat right ?
Telling me to go kill myself, frustrated are we? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So are you suggesting that vets don't pub? I guess it would keep those enviorments cheat free and elitist and arrogant free as well. Because only the clanners are arrogant and nasty and have the capability to cheat right ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your points? What points? From what I gathered these were you 'points'.
1) You're an ignorant SOB.
2) We're angry because of lower skill level.
3) You're an ignorant sod.
4) You're stupid, and I'll prove it with sarcasm.
Sorry if I should've gotten something more? The only point worth merti is number 2. Was there something I missed?
It was an example about overreacting about the obvious. You wouldn't kill yourself because you lost an NS game (well, some might), so why would you get totally **** off about disorganization in pubs?
Sorry about the people who are trying to get people organized, I apologize on behalf of EEK, he needed a place to vent out his frustration, and he took it out on this thread that was supposed to be informative about getting more people involved into the clan scene.
christ
Sorry about the people who are trying to get people organized, I apologize on behalf of EEK, he needed a place to vent out his frustration, and he took it out on this thread that was supposed to be informative about getting more people involved into the clan scene. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well done. *clap* *clap* *clap* I hope you enjoyed shooting yourself in your foot, because I'm not the one who has to defend my... my 'honor' if you will, for lack of a better term. I hope everyone realizes how Firewater here, reduced to discussion with 'dirty pubber', pretty much devolved into a feces-hurling ape. What he could've done to say 'I disaprove of these people' was instead mutated into posts full of flames, bad sarcasm, and flamebaiting.
Thank you for proving me correct on all grounds, Firewater.
And to tell someone to 'sod off' or as I've heard, that they're a <blank> sod, is an expression common in the UK.
Anyways, I'm done here before, this gets ugly. Firewater, next time you'd be best to let someone else cast the first stone.
Now I think I'll go play in a 'dirty pub' with noobs such as 'Niteowl' who have no idea what they're doing, who are stupid, worhtless, and skilless, with some of the only few veterans that I can trust to play fairly, and with a smile.
also Firewater, please don't get too hung up on someone generalizing. Everyone knows there are exceptions to the rule. I for one know that you are one such elite. There are quite a few that are an exception to the rule. But you also have to understand the statements from the point of view coming from someone who plays on pubs only. The majority of "veterans" and "elite" that they ever come in contact with DO act as accused. The generalalities ensue because they never see the "vets" and "elite" outside of the context of playing on one of the pubs. Nor will they ever because they likely won't participate in pugs, scrims, or competitions. You refer to these guys as the bad apples of the elite community, but unfortunately thats the only thing most pubbers ever see... thus they become the representative of "vets" and "elite" and the rest of the better ones are simply exceptions to the rule.
So yes, under THIS context, "vets" and "elites" generally degrade the fun factor for anyone playing on a pub.
On the flip side most pubbers have to deal with generalities imposed upon us by the elite. Not all pubbers lack skill enough to compete competitively... some of us just don't. If you take offense to generalizations about a group of people you are GENERALLY a part of... then simply disassociate youself from that group... don't try to dispute the generalization... because in the GENERAL case generalizations ARE true.
My two (unworthy pubber scrub) cents.