The last thing I need is advice from someone in this forum about life. Most of the people in this forum will probably never experience what I have, so do not lecture me about stopping play. I play about one game a day, maybe 1/2 hr on the weekends I'll play maybe 2. Some days I don't even play because I have too much work to do at school to keep my scholarship, other times I spend my time with friends at school. Just because I can still mop the floor with anyone, doesn't mean I play all hours of the day and have no life blah blah blah.
I especially like the people who get owned and say I'll never get a girl, then I wonder what kind of person I have been dating for the past 6 years? These are the people I put up with because I took a little more time to learn from my mistakes rather than cry h4x BS or my favorite... LAG. I even love more how people try to dissect my personality whenever they die and play internet Psychologist, too bad they know next to nothing about psychology and thats what I am going to school for.
The thrill that drives the elite is knowing that they can perform under pressure, and have fun doing so. Taking on multiple enemies, soloing fades with LMGs, and even taking down a group of marines as a skulk, is LOADS of fun and give me personally a little adrenaline rush. The challenge drives the elite, not so much the bragging rights. The ones that talk trash unprovoked aren't elite, do not get them confused with the truely talented players, they are just some punks that probably can't compete that the level they feel they should, so they take it out on the less skilled.
Point well taken. Unfortunately it doesn't change my general view that we simply shouldn't mix players with largely disparate skill levels. It simply ruins the experience on both sides. The newbs and skill-less (and/or those who could care less about skill) feel like the elite are dominating to the point that they feel unwelcome. The elite (and/or slightly sub-elite as you may refer to them) will complain that their teammates can't work with them on the level that they expect/require. Both parties end up getting mad and/or snooty. I simply don't see this as very fun at all.
Now I can't stop anyone from doing what they want... this IS a free country last time I checked, it IS an open-ended game when it comes to server regulation, and skill disparities will NEVER go away completely. But it might be nice to see everyone at least consider everyone else instead of just themselves every once in a while. But that's just me.
I don't really see us coming to any kind of agreement on this Firewater so this will be my last response in this regard, but I only hope that the topic we are discussing will be taken into consideration in a very serious manner in future releases of NS. We DO share the common aspiration to see NS become continually better and better. Maybe one day we'll finally see some resolution to the matter that everyone can live with.
For my part (from the LoC server) I welcome Firewater any time. He is skilled and I can only improve by dying to him. And he doesn't brag or act an **** on our server.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thrill that drives the elite is knowing that they can perform under pressure, and have fun doing so. Taking on multiple enemies, soloing fades with LMGs, and even taking down a group of marines as a skulk, is LOADS of fun and give me personally a little adrenaline rush. The challenge drives the elite, not so much the bragging rights. The ones that talk trash unprovoked aren't elite, do not get them confused with the truely talented players, they are just some punks that probably can't compete that the level they feel they should, so they take it out on the less skilled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. I agree entirely with how this is said, and what it means. To bear the name veteran, or elite, or whatever you want to call it, you need to carry a certain amount of respect for those less skilled than you. If you do not, then you do not understand the truth about being the elite.
<!--QuoteBegin-IceBaron+Mar 1 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IceBaron @ Mar 1 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For my part (from the LoC server) I welcome Firewater any time. He is skilled and I can only improve by dying to him. And he doesn't brag or act an **** on our server. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then why was I banned.
<span style='color:white'>Take the rest of that discussion into PM, please.</span>
The way I see it, if the server admins do not want these elite players they should goto the CAL website and ban their Steam IDs, that way they can have their own sub par games that will be balanced, and the elite can go somewhere else and play. Now for those who complain that team stacking occurs on a clan server, GO **** yourself tbh. If you do not like whats going on in that server, leave. Skilled players like playing with other skilled players, they dont always want to be teaching other people how to play, more over they want to play with a team that is competent, even if they aren't playing in a scrim, or PUG. Elite don't want neccesarily super skilled players on their team all the time, but what they dont want is incompetent players that do nothing but burden the team. To ask for a knowledgable team is not too much to ask, but then again it might.
Summary:Admins can ban the elite players so they can have a low skill game, and people who play on clan servers can leave and go some where else.
Actually I encourage server admins to do just that. Ban those who are too good for your server skill, that way you avoid team stacking and such. That seems to be main complaint, because Forlorn was right, skill stacking occurs when the other team lacks skill. Since not everyone "Cares" (although if they cry about skill stacking they must care a little) or has the talent to improve, eliminate the skilled that plague your servers. Simple solution.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 1 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 1 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The ones that talk trash unprovoked aren't elite, do not get them confused with the truely talented players, they are just some punks that probably can't compete that the level they feel they should, so they take it out on the less skilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with that on one point.
The word unprovoked.
I don't care whether you can own my Onos butt six ways from Sunday with an empty pistol.. there's never an excuse for talking trash.
If someone sucks, they probably know it, and it doesn't make anybody's game better having it announced.. it just pisses off the person who isn't doing well, makes them think the trash-talker is a jerk, and if I'm on the server, makes me think the trash-talker is a jerk as well. Too many jerks on a server, and I'm outta there.
My own personal thought is that the truly talented players.. rather than simply pounding on the less skilled and thinking the sheer numbers of kills they're racking up constitutes a challenge, should instead set up situations that challenge them more. Try playing without the headphones, for example. Or playing without changing weapons, or even playing without using certain corridors/sections of the map that they normally would.
This has the double benefit of actually increasing the skilled player's ability while still making it possible for the rest of the folk to have a decent game. And yeah, if while playing like this it looks like you're going to lose, turn it all on and unleash fury.. after all, if you can stage a come-back from what looks like hopelessness, all the better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+Mar 2 2004, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Mar 2 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 1 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 1 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The ones that talk trash unprovoked aren't elite, do not get them confused with the truely talented players, they are just some punks that probably can't compete that the level they feel they should, so they take it out on the less skilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with that on one point.
The word unprovoked.
I don't care whether you can own my Onos butt six ways from Sunday with an empty pistol.. there's never an excuse for talking trash.
If someone sucks, they probably know it, and it doesn't make anybody's game better having it announced.. it just pisses off the person who isn't doing well, makes them think the trash-talker is a jerk, and if I'm on the server, makes me think the trash-talker is a jerk as well. Too many jerks on a server, and I'm outta there.
My own personal thought is that the truly talented players.. rather than simply pounding on the less skilled and thinking the sheer numbers of kills they're racking up constitutes a challenge, should instead set up situations that challenge them more. Try playing without the headphones, for example. Or playing without changing weapons, or even playing without using certain corridors/sections of the map that they normally would.
This has the double benefit of actually increasing the skilled player's ability while still making it possible for the rest of the folk to have a decent game. And yeah, if while playing like this it looks like you're going to lose, turn it all on and unleash fury.. after all, if you can stage a come-back from what looks like hopelessness, all the better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Believe it or not I've had people trash talk me after I've destroyed them 8-9 times in a row, so I have no problem putting people in their place when they get roudy. I especially hate the ones that cry "BS" because they get beat one time. Also not using headphones and certain hallways is just plain senseless. As I said before, playing down does not help anyone, and probably leads to more of that trash talking because people get overconfident if they beat someone who is restricting themselves.
It would just be easier for the elites to be banned off of those servers, if the general server population doesn't wanna be challenged, do them a favor and ban whoever challenges them.
Kind of like dictatorship eh? Remove any challenges eh? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
FW, I know what you mean. The word you are looking is... scrubs. They make their own set of rules. I was a scrub once, I cant deny, so were you and probably every single one of us here. But we all grew past that. Scrubs are those that go like "LAME YOU TAKING OUT MY SKULK WITH A SHOTGUN GEE GEE FGT", or "QUIT SPAWNCMAPING", "EVEN TEAMS", etc, etc. I act like a scrub sometimes concerning even teams, but that habit will go away with time.
I love to get beaten down. I love to lose, to be challenged. I feel like I have been given this body, this bare hands to try beat fellow humans, but this hands are not naturally talented, they have to be molded to be.
I play for fun. I love to win. Nowdays I try my hardest to not stress off. I rarely are mean to people, unless it is pandas|rain, but that is just because he is a mean pie. Nowdays I play on my family computer, with standard everything on CS, on NS. Default gamma, cfg settings, default everything except some keys, hud_fastswitch.
Skill does not go away. It can only grow. It lies dormant if unused for long, but it can be reawakened. If I didnt believe that I would stop playing. It is in my blood to rebel against the rules.
Playing standard, at the level of the fresh install, without modified, which is probably what the pr0s use, feels great. Sure, the guys with scripts may get a little advantage sometimes, but my own skill will be what counts, not any piece of code. I am playing like a newcomer plays, and sure my aim is off for now, but I count on my own self, to achieve my own perfection, through my own dreams. If I die, it is no one`s fault, but mine.
I see a lot people blaming others. One day I will record a #cri vent convo and see how stressed it gets. They blame others when they die because they didnt get a medpack?
FW, you and me have several differences in view points, even in this, but I can agree with you here. I will try to contact you if you can show me a few pointers even if we have probably the same level of experience.
The point I am trying to get accross is, get some skill if you dont want to get beaten. Find the key inside yourself, in your body, train those hands of yours to coordinate better with that beatiful mind of yours. GET SOME SKILL. You can do it! No one else can!
Maybe everyone is better than me now. Quite a change eh? I gladly paid it.
www.sirlin.net for information on scrubs. I used to care about the information on the website, and I slowly stopped caring about that philosophy, which caused me to get sloppy, so now I just play pubs.
Yes NS is full of scrubs, I don't think I started out as one but when I first started gaming when I was 16, I definately was a scrub. But you learn overtime to stop blaming lag and to start taking responsibility for why you die. The scrubs definately destroy the game, atleast for the people that know what they are doing. Their own mental rules definately beat themselves before anyone on the other team can put a hurtin on them. And then they blame people for using things totally legal in the game.
in all honestisty, it realy doesn't take that long to get good. and take minimal effort. here some logic of mine I die cause other player kills me why did I die, instead of him? I am not good, other has more skill skill is the difrence what makes him better? now, if I get beaten down by the same player more than 3 times. I f4 goto obs, and get into his veiw. I watch what he is doing diffrently... I watch...what is getting him killed. if hes getting killed by a certain player, I spec him too. then I try and figure what does own one person etc. from there I can advanced my own skills and knowledge. so in less than an hours time i can go from the bottom to near, or over the top.
This is just built into my genes to always strive to get better at everything. in life, in cooking, in games, all around Im in sales. Im one of the top guys, and im still striving to get better. I feel for myself that If im not getting better, im getting worse, and if im getting worse, im wasting time.. but thats just me, and if someone doesn't want to get better or learn. Then all the world to them.
now, if someone plays for fun only 1 hour a day. maybe they gain 2 skill points a day. now If I only played like 1 hour a day, and actualy commited myself to learning, and getting better every second of everytime. I bet in aobut a month I will be extremly better.
I think it comes down to two subgroups people who love to learn, grow, and have fun and people dont care, and have fun
its like people who goto school to learn, grow and have fun or people who play in softball to grow, learn, and have fun while others goto school to have fun, party, etc. or softball.
what both need to realize, is that both are having as much fun as the other. just the when the learners, meat the dont carers. the dont cares suddenly care..and they dont have fun..and since thier not having fun, have to complain about the others who are.
in other words There are those, who are achievers, and have fun. and those who just dont care, and play life for fun. no one is better than anyone worth wise all are equal.
ok... scrubs is a different topic so I feel justified by jumping in on this one...
I AM A SCRUB!!!
But I am a damn good scrub. I may play by my own rules and restrictions and decide against actions others might consider legitimate, but I still excel at what I do. Unlike some of my "scrub brethren" I don't really complain a lot about people who exploit minor weaknesses of game engines and game logic. I simply don't use them. I'd rather play in the inherent and "intended" spirit that any given game is played. Truth be told I still manage to wipe the floor with many people that consider themselves non-scrub. Utilizing weaknesses only goes so far when you can't aim for crap or can't utilize positional tactics and can't respond to situations quickly.
Now when I fight against someone somewhat equally skilled and find them following along the same or similar "arbitrary codes of conduct" and they win, I acknowledge that and congratulate them with all my heart. He would do the same for me. He may be my adversary, but he has also become a friend. That's really what its all about for me. Personally, I like being around people that enjoy my prescence and respect me... not because "I'm 1337", but because I exhibit more than just prowess at playing the game. People generally have fun while playing with me AND against me... its a very fullfilling feeling. If nobody enjoyed playing with me, I'd likely just quit and find something more productive to fill my time. The essence of multiplayer games is to share an experience online with other like minded individuals. It is truly a pity that some can only see online play as a forum for unbridled competition where the most important thing is to be the best at all costs.
Farbeit from me that I actually change any of your opinions though. Most people here are so obstinate and adamant about their positions that they likely wouldn't budge at gunpoint. I'd still like to think that there are one or two whose eyes I might open. So here's to hoping for the best!
<!--QuoteBegin-Keyser59+Mar 2 2004, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Mar 2 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well even in the closed beta you heard people whining about going onos early, getting cloaking + focus, or rushing GL for spam.
Scrubs are what you make of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it matters if the people we're talking about had access to the beta. Not everyone was good.
And BTW I loved Onos rushing! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-AoF.Palin+Mar 3 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Mar 3 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I AM A SCRUB!!!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Guilty as charged: I'm a 'scrub' too. Perhaps not a particularly vocal one, but some things I just don't approve of. I don't see why that's a bad thing. It might not be ruthless and lead to vast amounts of prawnage, but it doesn't **** other people off - ultimately, I'm not in the business of ruining other people's fun by doing things that are of dubious legitimacy ('other people' being those who just want to play and maybe win, not win at all costs).
NB: this isn't to do with skill per se, though from experience it is the skilled minority who consider certain actions to be justified if it gives them the edge. A poor player using these actions is still a poor player and most likely won't make enough of an impact by it to be noticed. Though that's not an excuse for them to do it too. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In fact, you can be pretty darn good without ever resorting to things that are outwith the spirit of the game. I haven't quite managed it in NS, but in my previous big game, I was able to play to a moderate standard (a standard that I was personally happy with and had more to do with playing 'smart' than having killer aim) without EVER abusing 'nade bugs, weapon bugs, map bugs, using scripts, or anything else that to my mind struck me as 'cheap' but which 'skilled' players tended to include as a perfectly acceptable part of their repertoire. One of the major problems with establishing rules for a league, for example, is clarifying what's ok and what's not so that halfway through the season, it doesn't emerge that certain individuals have been doing stuff that's borderline exploit and definitely lame.
I have my own ideas of what's ok and what's not: to my mind, for example, dropping ccs to block narrow spaces while a siege was going on was a lame tactic in the previous version. Building phase gates through walls, was also a lame tactic. I wouldn't do it: the majority of people I've encountered on servers feel the same way when faced with something like that, and I think the high rate of f4 in games where that cack happens is testament to it.
<!--QuoteBegin-AoF.Palin+Mar 3 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Mar 3 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok... scrubs is a different topic so I feel justified by jumping in on this one...
I AM A SCRUB!!!
But I am a damn good scrub. I may play by my own rules and restrictions and decide against actions others might consider legitimate, but I still excel at what I do. Unlike some of my "scrub brethren" I don't really complain a lot about people who exploit minor weaknesses of game engines and game logic. I simply don't use them. I'd rather play in the inherent and "intended" spirit that any given game is played. Truth be told I still manage to wipe the floor with many people that consider themselves non-scrub. Utilizing weaknesses only goes so far when you can't aim for crap or can't utilize positional tactics and can't respond to situations quickly.
Now when I fight against someone somewhat equally skilled and find them following along the same or similar "arbitrary codes of conduct" and they win, I acknowledge that and congratulate them with all my heart. He would do the same for me. He may be my adversary, but he has also become a friend. That's really what its all about for me. Personally, I like being around people that enjoy my prescence and respect me... not because "I'm 1337", but because I exhibit more than just prowess at playing the game. People generally have fun while playing with me AND against me... its a very fullfilling feeling. If nobody enjoyed playing with me, I'd likely just quit and find something more productive to fill my time. The essence of multiplayer games is to share an experience online with other like minded individuals. It is truly a pity that some can only see online play as a forum for unbridled competition where the most important thing is to be the best at all costs.
Farbeit from me that I actually change any of your opinions though. Most people here are so obstinate and adamant about their positions that they likely wouldn't budge at gunpoint. I'd still like to think that there are one or two whose eyes I might open. So here's to hoping for the best! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is nothing wrong with being a scrub, its just that you restrict your own personal growth by your own mental rules, its no big deal. When I do something, I try to be the best I can be. I strive for All A's in college (don't neccesarily get it, but I try) when I played basketball I tried to be the best player on the court (didn't always happen), when I play my guitar I try to improve my skills day in and day out, somedays are better than others, but I usually improve a little each day.
Same thing with NS, the only difference is I have an affinity for video games because I was playing atari since I was around 2 years old. Video games have been a part of my life since then and I always tried to get a better score than my last. Me and my friends would do survival mode in Soul Blade for hrs sometimes just trying to beat one more person. Same thing with NS, only I do not play it as much. I try to be the best in the server, its in my blood to do so. So I guess I'll take your pity with a grain of salt, because your opinion means that much of a mcdonald's janitor in regards to why people try to be the best. You are truely ignorant, but thats ok.
For those of you wondering, I do not script, never have never will. I find them to be too restricitive, games themselves are not movies or plays, doing a series of 2-5 actions in a row can get you killed more often than not, and I've seen it happen.
Oh yeah I've never seen a real elite person use the phrase "1337" other than joking around, but good try though!
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 3 2004, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 3 2004, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh yeah I've never seen a real elite person use the phrase "1337" other than joking around, but good try though! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its called semantics silly... read the whole of the comment before trying to stick a jab into something that won't get hurt by it.
...
Striving for your best is admirable, but I think you've missed part of the picture. By your own admission you "try to be the best on the court" and "try to be the best on the server." That's fine.... if it is just you vs. "them". There's no "I" in "team". Instead of thinking how the team can support "you" in order that "you" can be the best, try playing a few games supporting the "team" so the "team" AS A WHOLE can be the best. Harder said than done, yes, but I promise it is MUCH more fulfilling.
Don't get me wrong. I like you're attitude. I just find it somewhat misplaced when applied to team games. Your philosophy is perfectly fine in the context of simple deathmatch or slight variants thereof. Striving for the best on the server or on the court promotes self-development, but it detriments team development and teamwork in general. Eventually you become so good that you either don't need a team or they become cannon fodder or a liability for you. Now how the hell is that supposed to make THEM feel?
being the best does not imply scoring the most points, or getting the most frags. On the court, I play point guard, any good point guard knows you look for pass first, shot second. Thats my style, in fact the person that could best describe it is Jason Kidd from the New Jersey Nets, he is my role model when it comes to competitive games. While I always look for pass first, sometimes I know I have to turn it up and spark the team to get going. If that means taking the ball myself sometimes, so be it.
Same way with NS. I go fade everytime I play, why? Not to get the most kills. I always protect my teammates, especially the gorges to the best of my ability. I go fade for the team, to drop those elec nodes that plague servers. I also go around protecting any resource tower that is built. As a marine I always cover while someone else is building, and if i'm parasited I always tell my teammates to stay behind me by 2 seconds, so they can bait me out if I get attacked. Being great doesn't mean you get the most kills. Being great means you make everyone a better player.
Whenever I'm in a server i'm a regular to, people listen to me usually. They put their faith in me to deliver a victory. Ask anyone who's pubbed with me, I always think of the team first. I dont go fade to get a crazy ammount of kills, because I can do that with just about anything, except a gorge. Whenever I'm marine I usually go by myself not to frag skulks, but to cap RTs for the team so they can get better equipment, while they go pressure the hive. But like in basketball, sometimes the team needs that spark to get things going, so I go into "Clutch" mode, where I think of nothing but killing. This happens in times of great challenge, like when the hive is under attacked, or MS is. If that means I have to kill a whole squad by myself to save the base, so be it. I try to get other players to try harder when they see me kill 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, people in a row, it inspires them to play better.
Being the best player doesn't benefit yourself, it benefits the team. If the team requires a hive, I put it up, if they need a fade for protection, I do it. If they need to bait me out to kill 2-3 enemies, so be it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 3 2004, 11:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 3 2004, 11:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> being the best does not imply scoring the most points, or getting the most frags. On the court, I play point guard, any good point guard knows you look for pass first, shot second. Thats my style, in fact the person that could best describe it is Jason Kidd from the New Jersey Nets, he is my role model when it comes to competitive games. While I always look for pass first, sometimes I know I have to turn it up and spark the team to get going. If that means taking the ball myself sometimes, so be it.
Same way with NS. I go fade everytime I play, why? Not to get the most kills. I always protect my teammates, especially the gorges to the best of my ability. I go fade for the team, to drop those elec nodes that plague servers. I also go around protecting any resource tower that is built. As a marine I always cover while someone else is building, and if i'm parasited I always tell my teammates to stay behind me by 2 seconds, so they can bait me out if I get attacked. Being great doesn't mean you get the most kills. Being great means you make everyone a better player.
Whenever I'm in a server i'm a regular to, people listen to me usually. They put their faith in me to deliver a victory. Ask anyone who's pubbed with me, I always think of the team first. I dont go fade to get a crazy ammount of kills, because I can do that with just about anything, except a gorge. Whenever I'm marine I usually go by myself not to frag skulks, but to cap RTs for the team so they can get better equipment, while they go pressure the hive. But like in basketball, sometimes the team needs that spark to get things going, so I go into "Clutch" mode, where I think of nothing but killing. This happens in times of great challenge, like when the hive is under attacked, or MS is. If that means I have to kill a whole squad by myself to save the base, so be it. I try to get other players to try harder when they see me kill 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, people in a row, it inspires them to play better.
Being the best player doesn't benefit yourself, it benefits the team. If the team requires a hive, I put it up, if they need a fade for protection, I do it. If they need to bait me out to kill 2-3 enemies, so be it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Allright, I buy that.
Good show Firewater. I truly anticipate seeing you in game, you'll definitely give me a run for my money when we finally meet someday. I would like to say however that I find you an exception to the rule... in a good way. I still hold many of my previous statements to be valid in general though.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soberana+Mar 3 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Mar 3 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> FW the last time I saw you fade you were just running to the marines, not even blinking B<< <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> jokes
wow this threads gone to hell in a handbasket. This is the problem we have with NS pubbing as impy, Cristian, and Forlorn have very well stated "Get Some Skill". I regret to inform you that we're talking about pubs not cal for christs sakes. Its attitudes like that that gives vets horrible reputations.
Granted it isn't the nicest way to say it, but it is true. Either learn to play better, or don't play where the vets play, because they will not play down to suite the skill level of a server. Just because it isn't a CAL match does not mean people cannot improve.
I've been playing since the first day of public release of 1.00 and I've seen people purposely stack the teams maybe 5 times. Most of the time its coincidence and everyone starts complaining. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 3 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 3 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Granted it isn't the nicest way to say it, but it is true. Either learn to play better, or don't play where the vets play, because they will not play down to suite the skill level of a server. Just because it isn't a CAL match does not mean people cannot improve.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That argument works both ways. If a server has a defined skill level why should people be forced to play above their level? If they wanted to do that (and reap whatever benefits they get from it), they could go to a higher skilled server. It's not for anyone else to decide that they need to get some skill - saying so sounds incredibly patronising. People who knowingly play on a skilled server and get whupped... well that's their lookout and they'll get what they asked for. No objections to skilled players on a middle-ground, varying skill server whatsoever, only to deliberate stacking of said skilled players.
<!--QuoteBegin-cabbit+Mar 3 2004, 03:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cabbit @ Mar 3 2004, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 3 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 3 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Granted it isn't the nicest way to say it, but it is true. Either learn to play better, or don't play where the vets play, because they will not play down to suite the skill level of a server. Just because it isn't a CAL match does not mean people cannot improve.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That argument works both ways. If a server has a defined skill level why should people be forced to play above their level? If they wanted to do that (and reap whatever benefits they get from it), they could go to a higher skilled server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the problem. Your such "higher skilled" server's do not exist. Highly skilled places only exist in clan matches/scrims, and playing clan matches/scrims 24/7 is impossible, because you can't always be with your clan nor can they.
Really, good players have every right to play as the next guy... If you don't like a player, ban them, but just remember it makes a bigger example to yourself and your server than of the player you banned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's fine.... if it is just you vs. "them". There's no "I" in "team".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true, some people come to say certain tactics are "cheap" far too quickly, such as marines whining about focus, when all they have to do to counter is get armor 1.
On the opposite end, some people say that anything you can possibly do in the game goes, all exploits included. They like to call people who don't agree with this "scrubs". However, some tactics are simply not counterable by any stretch of the imagination, and some exploits (CC blocking, making a base outside the playable area) make for terrible and not fun gameplay.
There's a middle road here which can only be distinguished by a healthy dose of experience and discussion. If some easy to execute tactic is quite difficult to overcome, maybe there's a gameplay issue there. On the flip side, if some tactic seems "cheap" to you, first explore all possible ways of countering it before complaining.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 3 2004, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 3 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's the problem. Your such "higher skilled" server's do not exist. Highly skilled places only exist in clan matches/scrims, and playing clan matches/scrims 24/7 is impossible, because you can't always be with your clan nor can they.
Really, good players have every right to play as the next guy... If you don't like a player, ban them, but just remember it makes a bigger example to yourself and your server than of the player you banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Point taken, servers don't tend to label themselves as being aimed at a particular skill set, perhaps apart from dire warnings to play elsewhere if you're trying to learn the game. Definitions of skill or n00bishness are always going to be a bit arbitrary and I guess it's up to each player to figure out where they stand on the grand scheme of n00b to pro and assess the general level of a server.
I'm aware that you can't play matches 24/7: having been in charge of plenty of clan stuff, I know perfectly well what a nightmare it can be getting enough players and/or fixtures together. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *happy memories* <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't say good players had less right to play; I just think it's sad to see people leaving servers because they feel unwelcome or they can't get a decent game. And I know that can easily apply to vets as well as NSPlayer.
Comments
I especially like the people who get owned and say I'll never get a girl, then I wonder what kind of person I have been dating for the past 6 years? These are the people I put up with because I took a little more time to learn from my mistakes rather than cry h4x BS or my favorite... LAG. I even love more how people try to dissect my personality whenever they die and play internet Psychologist, too bad they know next to nothing about psychology and thats what I am going to school for.
The thrill that drives the elite is knowing that they can perform under pressure, and have fun doing so. Taking on multiple enemies, soloing fades with LMGs, and even taking down a group of marines as a skulk, is LOADS of fun and give me personally a little adrenaline rush. The challenge drives the elite, not so much the bragging rights. The ones that talk trash unprovoked aren't elite, do not get them confused with the truely talented players, they are just some punks that probably can't compete that the level they feel they should, so they take it out on the less skilled.
Now I can't stop anyone from doing what they want... this IS a free country last time I checked, it IS an open-ended game when it comes to server regulation, and skill disparities will NEVER go away completely. But it might be nice to see everyone at least consider everyone else instead of just themselves every once in a while. But that's just me.
I don't really see us coming to any kind of agreement on this Firewater so this will be my last response in this regard, but I only hope that the topic we are discussing will be taken into consideration in a very serious manner in future releases of NS. We DO share the common aspiration to see NS become continually better and better. Maybe one day we'll finally see some resolution to the matter that everyone can live with.
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Thank you. I agree entirely with how this is said, and what it means. To bear the name veteran, or elite, or whatever you want to call it, you need to carry a certain amount of respect for those less skilled than you. If you do not, then you do not understand the truth about being the elite.
Then why was I banned.
<span style='color:white'>Take the rest of that discussion into PM, please.</span>
Summary:Admins can ban the elite players so they can have a low skill game, and people who play on clan servers can leave and go some where else.
Actually I encourage server admins to do just that. Ban those who are too good for your server skill, that way you avoid team stacking and such. That seems to be main complaint, because Forlorn was right, skill stacking occurs when the other team lacks skill. Since not everyone "Cares" (although if they cry about skill stacking they must care a little) or has the talent to improve, eliminate the skilled that plague your servers. Simple solution.
I disagree with that on one point.
The word unprovoked.
I don't care whether you can own my Onos butt six ways from Sunday with an empty pistol.. there's never an excuse for talking trash.
If someone sucks, they probably know it, and it doesn't make anybody's game better having it announced.. it just pisses off the person who isn't doing well, makes them think the trash-talker is a jerk, and if I'm on the server, makes me think the trash-talker is a jerk as well. Too many jerks on a server, and I'm outta there.
My own personal thought is that the truly talented players.. rather than simply pounding on the less skilled and thinking the sheer numbers of kills they're racking up constitutes a challenge, should instead set up situations that challenge them more. Try playing without the headphones, for example. Or playing without changing weapons, or even playing without using certain corridors/sections of the map that they normally would.
This has the double benefit of actually increasing the skilled player's ability while still making it possible for the rest of the folk to have a decent game. And yeah, if while playing like this it looks like you're going to lose, turn it all on and unleash fury.. after all, if you can stage a come-back from what looks like hopelessness, all the better.
I disagree with that on one point.
The word unprovoked.
I don't care whether you can own my Onos butt six ways from Sunday with an empty pistol.. there's never an excuse for talking trash.
If someone sucks, they probably know it, and it doesn't make anybody's game better having it announced.. it just pisses off the person who isn't doing well, makes them think the trash-talker is a jerk, and if I'm on the server, makes me think the trash-talker is a jerk as well. Too many jerks on a server, and I'm outta there.
My own personal thought is that the truly talented players.. rather than simply pounding on the less skilled and thinking the sheer numbers of kills they're racking up constitutes a challenge, should instead set up situations that challenge them more. Try playing without the headphones, for example. Or playing without changing weapons, or even playing without using certain corridors/sections of the map that they normally would.
This has the double benefit of actually increasing the skilled player's ability while still making it possible for the rest of the folk to have a decent game. And yeah, if while playing like this it looks like you're going to lose, turn it all on and unleash fury.. after all, if you can stage a come-back from what looks like hopelessness, all the better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Believe it or not I've had people trash talk me after I've destroyed them 8-9 times in a row, so I have no problem putting people in their place when they get roudy. I especially hate the ones that cry "BS" because they get beat one time. Also not using headphones and certain hallways is just plain senseless. As I said before, playing down does not help anyone, and probably leads to more of that trash talking because people get overconfident if they beat someone who is restricting themselves.
It would just be easier for the elites to be banned off of those servers, if the general server population doesn't wanna be challenged, do them a favor and ban whoever challenges them.
FW, I know what you mean. The word you are looking is... scrubs.
They make their own set of rules. I was a scrub once, I cant deny, so were you and probably every single one of us here. But we all grew past that. Scrubs are those that go like "LAME YOU TAKING OUT MY SKULK WITH A SHOTGUN GEE GEE FGT", or "QUIT SPAWNCMAPING", "EVEN TEAMS", etc, etc. I act like a scrub sometimes concerning even teams, but that habit will go away with time.
I love to get beaten down. I love to lose, to be challenged. I feel like I have been given this body, this bare hands to try beat fellow humans, but this hands are not naturally talented, they have to be molded to be.
I play for fun. I love to win. Nowdays I try my hardest to not stress off. I rarely are mean to people, unless it is pandas|rain, but that is just because he is a mean pie. Nowdays I play on my family computer, with standard everything on CS, on NS. Default gamma, cfg settings, default everything except some keys, hud_fastswitch.
Skill does not go away. It can only grow. It lies dormant if unused for long, but it can be reawakened. If I didnt believe that I would stop playing. It is in my blood to rebel against the rules.
Playing standard, at the level of the fresh install, without modified, which is probably what the pr0s use, feels great. Sure, the guys with scripts may get a little advantage sometimes, but my own skill will be what counts, not any piece of code. I am playing like a newcomer plays, and sure my aim is off for now, but I count on my own self, to achieve my own perfection, through my own dreams. If I die, it is no one`s fault, but mine.
I see a lot people blaming others. One day I will record a #cri vent convo and see how stressed it gets. They blame others when they die because they didnt get a medpack?
FW, you and me have several differences in view points, even in this, but I can agree with you here. I will try to contact you if you can show me a few pointers even if we have probably the same level of experience.
The point I am trying to get accross is, get some skill if you dont want to get beaten. Find the key inside yourself, in your body, train those hands of yours to coordinate better with that beatiful mind of yours. GET SOME SKILL. You can do it! No one else can!
Maybe everyone is better than me now. Quite a change eh?
I gladly paid it.
Yes NS is full of scrubs, I don't think I started out as one but when I first started gaming when I was 16, I definately was a scrub. But you learn overtime to stop blaming lag and to start taking responsibility for why you die. The scrubs definately destroy the game, atleast for the people that know what they are doing. Their own mental rules definately beat themselves before anyone on the other team can put a hurtin on them. And then they blame people for using things totally legal in the game.
Scrubs are what you make of them.
here some logic of mine
I die cause other player kills me
why did I die, instead of him?
I am not good, other has more skill
skill is the difrence
what makes him better?
now, if I get beaten down by the same player more than 3 times. I f4 goto obs, and get into his veiw. I watch what he is doing diffrently... I watch...what is getting him killed.
if hes getting killed by a certain player, I spec him too. then I try and figure what does own one person etc.
from there I can advanced my own skills and knowledge. so in less than an hours time i can go from the bottom to near, or over the top.
This is just built into my genes to always strive to get better at everything.
in life, in cooking, in games, all around
Im in sales. Im one of the top guys, and im still striving to get better.
I feel for myself that If im not getting better, im getting worse, and if im getting worse, im wasting time.. but thats just me, and if someone doesn't want to get better or learn. Then all the world to them.
now, if someone plays for fun only 1 hour a day.
maybe they gain 2 skill points a day.
now If I only played like 1 hour a day, and actualy commited myself to learning, and getting better every second of everytime. I bet in aobut a month I will be extremly better.
I think it comes down to two subgroups
people who love to learn, grow, and have fun
and people dont care, and have fun
its like people who goto school to learn, grow and have fun
or people who play in softball to grow, learn, and have fun
while others goto school to have fun, party, etc.
or softball.
what both need to realize, is that both are having as much fun as the other. just the when the learners, meat the dont carers. the dont cares suddenly care..and they dont have fun..and since thier not having fun, have to complain about the others who are.
in other words
There are those, who are achievers, and have fun. and those who just dont care, and play life for fun.
no one is better than anyone worth wise all are equal.
untill nextime..SPAM TURRETS <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I AM A SCRUB!!!
But I am a damn good scrub. I may play by my own rules and restrictions and decide against actions others might consider legitimate, but I still excel at what I do. Unlike some of my "scrub brethren" I don't really complain a lot about people who exploit minor weaknesses of game engines and game logic. I simply don't use them. I'd rather play in the inherent and "intended" spirit that any given game is played. Truth be told I still manage to wipe the floor with many people that consider themselves non-scrub. Utilizing weaknesses only goes so far when you can't aim for crap or can't utilize positional tactics and can't respond to situations quickly.
Now when I fight against someone somewhat equally skilled and find them following along the same or similar "arbitrary codes of conduct" and they win, I acknowledge that and congratulate them with all my heart. He would do the same for me. He may be my adversary, but he has also become a friend. That's really what its all about for me. Personally, I like being around people that enjoy my prescence and respect me... not because "I'm 1337", but because I exhibit more than just prowess at playing the game. People generally have fun while playing with me AND against me... its a very fullfilling feeling. If nobody enjoyed playing with me, I'd likely just quit and find something more productive to fill my time. The essence of multiplayer games is to share an experience online with other like minded individuals. It is truly a pity that some can only see online play as a forum for unbridled competition where the most important thing is to be the best at all costs.
Farbeit from me that I actually change any of your opinions though. Most people here are so obstinate and adamant about their positions that they likely wouldn't budge at gunpoint. I'd still like to think that there are one or two whose eyes I might open. So here's to hoping for the best!
Scrubs are what you make of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it matters if the people we're talking about had access to the beta. Not everyone was good.
And BTW I loved Onos rushing! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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Guilty as charged: I'm a 'scrub' too. Perhaps not a particularly vocal one, but some things I just don't approve of. I don't see why that's a bad thing. It might not be ruthless and lead to vast amounts of prawnage, but it doesn't **** other people off - ultimately, I'm not in the business of ruining other people's fun by doing things that are of dubious legitimacy ('other people' being those who just want to play and maybe win, not win at all costs).
NB: this isn't to do with skill per se, though from experience it is the skilled minority who consider certain actions to be justified if it gives them the edge. A poor player using these actions is still a poor player and most likely won't make enough of an impact by it to be noticed. Though that's not an excuse for them to do it too. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In fact, you can be pretty darn good without ever resorting to things that are outwith the spirit of the game. I haven't quite managed it in NS, but in my previous big game, I was able to play to a moderate standard (a standard that I was personally happy with and had more to do with playing 'smart' than having killer aim) without EVER abusing 'nade bugs, weapon bugs, map bugs, using scripts, or anything else that to my mind struck me as 'cheap' but which 'skilled' players tended to include as a perfectly acceptable part of their repertoire. One of the major problems with establishing rules for a league, for example, is clarifying what's ok and what's not so that halfway through the season, it doesn't emerge that certain individuals have been doing stuff that's borderline exploit and definitely lame.
I have my own ideas of what's ok and what's not: to my mind, for example, dropping ccs to block narrow spaces while a siege was going on was a lame tactic in the previous version. Building phase gates through walls, was also a lame tactic. I wouldn't do it: the majority of people I've encountered on servers feel the same way when faced with something like that, and I think the high rate of f4 in games where that cack happens is testament to it.
.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I AM A SCRUB!!!
But I am a damn good scrub. I may play by my own rules and restrictions and decide against actions others might consider legitimate, but I still excel at what I do. Unlike some of my "scrub brethren" I don't really complain a lot about people who exploit minor weaknesses of game engines and game logic. I simply don't use them. I'd rather play in the inherent and "intended" spirit that any given game is played. Truth be told I still manage to wipe the floor with many people that consider themselves non-scrub. Utilizing weaknesses only goes so far when you can't aim for crap or can't utilize positional tactics and can't respond to situations quickly.
Now when I fight against someone somewhat equally skilled and find them following along the same or similar "arbitrary codes of conduct" and they win, I acknowledge that and congratulate them with all my heart. He would do the same for me. He may be my adversary, but he has also become a friend. That's really what its all about for me. Personally, I like being around people that enjoy my prescence and respect me... not because "I'm 1337", but because I exhibit more than just prowess at playing the game. People generally have fun while playing with me AND against me... its a very fullfilling feeling. If nobody enjoyed playing with me, I'd likely just quit and find something more productive to fill my time. The essence of multiplayer games is to share an experience online with other like minded individuals. It is truly a pity that some can only see online play as a forum for unbridled competition where the most important thing is to be the best at all costs.
Farbeit from me that I actually change any of your opinions though. Most people here are so obstinate and adamant about their positions that they likely wouldn't budge at gunpoint. I'd still like to think that there are one or two whose eyes I might open. So here's to hoping for the best! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is nothing wrong with being a scrub, its just that you restrict your own personal growth by your own mental rules, its no big deal. When I do something, I try to be the best I can be. I strive for All A's in college (don't neccesarily get it, but I try) when I played basketball I tried to be the best player on the court (didn't always happen), when I play my guitar I try to improve my skills day in and day out, somedays are better than others, but I usually improve a little each day.
Same thing with NS, the only difference is I have an affinity for video games because I was playing atari since I was around 2 years old. Video games have been a part of my life since then and I always tried to get a better score than my last. Me and my friends would do survival mode in Soul Blade for hrs sometimes just trying to beat one more person. Same thing with NS, only I do not play it as much. I try to be the best in the server, its in my blood to do so. So I guess I'll take your pity with a grain of salt, because your opinion means that much of a mcdonald's janitor in regards to why people try to be the best. You are truely ignorant, but thats ok.
For those of you wondering, I do not script, never have never will. I find them to be too restricitive, games themselves are not movies or plays, doing a series of 2-5 actions in a row can get you killed more often than not, and I've seen it happen.
Oh yeah I've never seen a real elite person use the phrase "1337" other than joking around, but good try though!
Its called semantics silly... read the whole of the comment before trying to stick a jab into something that won't get hurt by it.
...
Striving for your best is admirable, but I think you've missed part of the picture. By your own admission you "try to be the best on the court" and "try to be the best on the server." That's fine.... if it is just you vs. "them". There's no "I" in "team". Instead of thinking how the team can support "you" in order that "you" can be the best, try playing a few games supporting the "team" so the "team" AS A WHOLE can be the best. Harder said than done, yes, but I promise it is MUCH more fulfilling.
Don't get me wrong. I like you're attitude. I just find it somewhat misplaced when applied to team games. Your philosophy is perfectly fine in the context of simple deathmatch or slight variants thereof. Striving for the best on the server or on the court promotes self-development, but it detriments team development and teamwork in general. Eventually you become so good that you either don't need a team or they become cannon fodder or a liability for you. Now how the hell is that supposed to make THEM feel?
Same way with NS. I go fade everytime I play, why? Not to get the most kills. I always protect my teammates, especially the gorges to the best of my ability. I go fade for the team, to drop those elec nodes that plague servers. I also go around protecting any resource tower that is built. As a marine I always cover while someone else is building, and if i'm parasited I always tell my teammates to stay behind me by 2 seconds, so they can bait me out if I get attacked. Being great doesn't mean you get the most kills. Being great means you make everyone a better player.
Whenever I'm in a server i'm a regular to, people listen to me usually. They put their faith in me to deliver a victory. Ask anyone who's pubbed with me, I always think of the team first. I dont go fade to get a crazy ammount of kills, because I can do that with just about anything, except a gorge. Whenever I'm marine I usually go by myself not to frag skulks, but to cap RTs for the team so they can get better equipment, while they go pressure the hive. But like in basketball, sometimes the team needs that spark to get things going, so I go into "Clutch" mode, where I think of nothing but killing. This happens in times of great challenge, like when the hive is under attacked, or MS is. If that means I have to kill a whole squad by myself to save the base, so be it. I try to get other players to try harder when they see me kill 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, people in a row, it inspires them to play better.
Being the best player doesn't benefit yourself, it benefits the team. If the team requires a hive, I put it up, if they need a fade for protection, I do it. If they need to bait me out to kill 2-3 enemies, so be it.
Same way with NS. I go fade everytime I play, why? Not to get the most kills. I always protect my teammates, especially the gorges to the best of my ability. I go fade for the team, to drop those elec nodes that plague servers. I also go around protecting any resource tower that is built. As a marine I always cover while someone else is building, and if i'm parasited I always tell my teammates to stay behind me by 2 seconds, so they can bait me out if I get attacked. Being great doesn't mean you get the most kills. Being great means you make everyone a better player.
Whenever I'm in a server i'm a regular to, people listen to me usually. They put their faith in me to deliver a victory. Ask anyone who's pubbed with me, I always think of the team first. I dont go fade to get a crazy ammount of kills, because I can do that with just about anything, except a gorge. Whenever I'm marine I usually go by myself not to frag skulks, but to cap RTs for the team so they can get better equipment, while they go pressure the hive. But like in basketball, sometimes the team needs that spark to get things going, so I go into "Clutch" mode, where I think of nothing but killing. This happens in times of great challenge, like when the hive is under attacked, or MS is. If that means I have to kill a whole squad by myself to save the base, so be it. I try to get other players to try harder when they see me kill 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, people in a row, it inspires them to play better.
Being the best player doesn't benefit yourself, it benefits the team. If the team requires a hive, I put it up, if they need a fade for protection, I do it. If they need to bait me out to kill 2-3 enemies, so be it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Allright, I buy that.
Good show Firewater. I truly anticipate seeing you in game, you'll definitely give me a run for my money when we finally meet someday. I would like to say however that I find you an exception to the rule... in a good way. I still hold many of my previous statements to be valid in general though.
jokes
That argument works both ways. If a server has a defined skill level why should people be forced to play above their level? If they wanted to do that (and reap whatever benefits they get from it), they could go to a higher skilled server. It's not for anyone else to decide that they need to get some skill - saying so sounds incredibly patronising. People who knowingly play on a skilled server and get whupped... well that's their lookout and they'll get what they asked for. No objections to skilled players on a middle-ground, varying skill server whatsoever, only to deliberate stacking of said skilled players.
That argument works both ways. If a server has a defined skill level why should people be forced to play above their level? If they wanted to do that (and reap whatever benefits they get from it), they could go to a higher skilled server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the problem. Your such "higher skilled" server's do not exist. Highly skilled places only exist in clan matches/scrims, and playing clan matches/scrims 24/7 is impossible, because you can't always be with your clan nor can they.
Really, good players have every right to play as the next guy... If you don't like a player, ban them, but just remember it makes a bigger example to yourself and your server than of the player you banned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's fine.... if it is just you vs. "them". There's no "I" in "team".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But there is a "me".
On the opposite end, some people say that anything you can possibly do in the game goes, all exploits included. They like to call people who don't agree with this "scrubs". However, some tactics are simply not counterable by any stretch of the imagination, and some exploits (CC blocking, making a base outside the playable area) make for terrible and not fun gameplay.
There's a middle road here which can only be distinguished by a healthy dose of experience and discussion. If some easy to execute tactic is quite difficult to overcome, maybe there's a gameplay issue there. On the flip side, if some tactic seems "cheap" to you, first explore all possible ways of countering it before complaining.
Really, good players have every right to play as the next guy... If you don't like a player, ban them, but just remember it makes a bigger example to yourself and your server than of the player you banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point taken, servers don't tend to label themselves as being aimed at a particular skill set, perhaps apart from dire warnings to play elsewhere if you're trying to learn the game. Definitions of skill or n00bishness are always going to be a bit arbitrary and I guess it's up to each player to figure out where they stand on the grand scheme of n00b to pro and assess the general level of a server.
I'm aware that you can't play matches 24/7: having been in charge of plenty of clan stuff, I know perfectly well what a nightmare it can be getting enough players and/or fixtures together. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> *happy memories* <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't say good players had less right to play; I just think it's sad to see people leaving servers because they feel unwelcome or they can't get a decent game. And I know that can easily apply to vets as well as NSPlayer.