How To Fix Co Maps
wRaven
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6482Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6482Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Cause they all need it</div> All CO maps need the spawn points in a protected area, such as a room that only the team that spawns in can use to leave (one way door) or such as that they are raised enough that it is hard to go into (NS makes this hard in its own with flying and wall walking)
Look at ANY constant DM game. TFC is a nice example, notice how the spawns are protected for the most part? NS needs that also. The objectives such as the CC and hive should still be easily accessable though.
Look at ANY constant DM game. TFC is a nice example, notice how the spawns are protected for the most part? NS needs that also. The objectives such as the CC and hive should still be easily accessable though.
Comments
but think of all the camping that will happen OUTSIDE there doors <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But, yeh, something needs to be done about spawn camping, either from the dev coders, or the mappers. We need to stand up!
But, you would need 2 spawn rooms, with 2 different exits, all far enough apart from each other, but close enough to the cc. Camping the spawn doors is as bad as camping the spawn points. Espically when a gorge web's them, and a fade with AR or a skulk with xeno waits near the door.
j/k
Aha. Aha. Aha.
Are you serious? In either case you would never have a chance to get anywhere near doing damage. Either you will have your face bitten off in an instant or you will be mown down by long-range fire before you can get your bearings.
the one idea that might be fun would be to have the marines spawn in on a ship and then teleport to the spawn (this would be mega hard to implement and very easy to camp the teleport in spot...
the one idea that might be fun would be to have the marines spawn in on a ship and then teleport to the spawn (this would be mega hard to implement and very easy to camp the teleport in spot... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I suck then
being I have a nano second to kill a Sulk with Focus in level 1 armor
If the sulks have a sucessful rush the game is over...
1. No, it would be so easy to impliment: triggerteleport and a teleport destination(s) is all you need, depending on how good you want to make it.
2. It wouldn't be eaiser to camp the teleport destinations than the normal spawns.
Protected spawns are NESSARY for any TDM based game. Name one TDM based game w/o proteced spawns? CS only gets away with it because of rounds.
You can't argue that people will stay in the protected areas. If they do that, they lose, no problems.
Many CO maps, espically with few players, end up to a more advanced game of "wack-a-mole" where you just shoot/bite whatever spawns first. All is need is a extra room with a one way door, or a game_hurt to stop enemys from killing you when you spawn.
<b>NO!</b>
There is no way to justify spawn camping! Mappers should move the spawns away from the CC/Hive. This would cut back on spawn camping, and allow for eaither team to attack for a moment w/o getting ambushed, and allow the defending team to mount a counter attack.
CO maps seem thrown together; they are like NS maps but w/o the resouce nodes and buildings, not TDM maps.
And then the marines can shoot the hive and have distance between them and the aliens while shooting the hive, disallowing the aliens to respond quick enough to get near them to kill them.
<b>NO!</b>
There is no way to justify spawn camping! Mappers should move the spawns away from the CC/Hive. This would cut back on spawn camping, and allow for eaither team to attack for a moment w/o getting ambushed, and allow the defending team to mount a counter attack.
CO maps seem thrown together; they are like NS maps but w/o the resouce nodes and buildings, not TDM maps. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Thrown together"
....
Can i have the months of my life back which spent "throwing together" a combat map? Oh wait, that's because i spent MONTHS of HARD WORK working on a map. These maps are NOT thrown together.
The protected spawn idea can be remedied with the spawn invulnerability. That solves the issue straight off the bat.
There is nothing to discuss, the issue of spawn camping has been covered in many ways, and the best solution was the invulnerability.
CO maps have...weak...spawn areas. If they were made for DoD or TFC, they wouldn't be played because the spawns are open, and the flag is in the spawn. Invulberlity dosen't factor into it.
CO maps have...weak...spawn areas. If they were made for DoD or TFC, they wouldn't be played because the spawns are open, and the flag is in the spawn. Invulberlity dosen't factor into it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, i can see you're pretty slow, i'll explain this step by step.
The problem is spawn camping.
<b>Possible solution 1:</b>
Isolate marine spawn making it an area only accessable to marines with doors leading out to the rest of the map, a la 2fort (or whatever it's called) from TFC.
<b>Fatal problem with solution 1:</b>
The aliens can camp the doors making the marines unable to leave spawn. A clever alien team would send half the team to eat the CC leaving the marines powerless.
<b>Possible solution 2:</b>
Have the marine spawn in a completely different area of the map.
<b>Fatal problem with solution 2:</b>
The time it takes to get from the new spawn to the CC may be too long, causing the CC to needlessly sustain heavy damage.
<b>Possible solution 3:</b>
Have the marines spawn in an unconnected part of the map and have them teleport in.
<b>Fatal problem with solution 3:</b>
Aliens camp the teleport, same problem as solution 1.
<b>Possible solution 4:</b>
Give the marines 2-3 seconds of invulnerability on spawn. Giving them the precious few seconds to evade attack and attack an enemy with no fear of death. Give them time to sort their upgrades with no fear of death.
<b>Fatal problem with solution 4:</b>
None.
And solution 4 is currently implemented into the game already, however i think it's a server variable, or it's been removed for the current beta build.
Anyway, what you are bringing up is a GAMEPLAY PROBLEM and not a MAPPING PROBLEM. Go take it up in the ideas & suggestions forum, or tell some that gives a damn. This has nothing to do with us and is entirely of NO RELEVANCE since the issue has been addressed and a suitable solution has already been FOUND and IMPLEMENTED.
*EDIT: This post was brought to you by the letter "<b>logic</b>" and the number "<b>common sense</b>"
On TFC or DoD people can't walk on the walls, or have to bite to death the flag, so it's not the same thing...
Give the marines 2-3 seconds of invulnerability on spawn. Giving them the precious few seconds to evade attack and attack an enemy with no fear of death. Give them time to sort their upgrades with no fear of death.
<b>Fatal problem with solution 4:</b>
None. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed that this is the best way to deal with spawncamping.
But however I'm not sure if the command was removed. Hopefully I can test it later on. Can anyone tell me whats the command for spawn invulnerability?
I've noticed that they've localized Buildings to be placeable ents
since spawn camping is a big deal
Why not add 1 ta 2 turret and one Turret Factory
This nullifies the spawn camping problem without creating a large unbalance for the marines...1 or 2 Turrets wont last long against aliens...but at the same time the aliens attacks will be focused on the turrets instead of the marines...allowing them to spawn and counter-attack.
This is a mapping deal...and I dont know if it will work for CO...but I think it will judging from how other things like the armory, CC and hive are placed...
-e-
lemme add the fact that
1. Once the turrets are gone their gone...you cant build more...
2. Aliens cant camp a spawn because if they try they get shot
-however on the same note as a mapper place the turrets in an area that the aliens can attack the CC but NOT camp the spawn...
In other words place the turret so it has a blind spot behind the CC...that was Aliens can hit the CC but cant spawn camp...
(it also helps the 'spam grenades at the marines feet' effect that I hate so much)
Perhaps if the Marine spawn points were more spread out they'd have more of a chance to survive...
WOAH... what a horrible dream... someone stab me!
Just kidding. I think people are just used to mapping for normal NS, and as such the current co maps will look quite linear. I bet in the future though, we'll start seeing alot more interesting maps with lots of elevation changes and complex layouts.
if u implemented turret defenses in each base (alien and Marine)
You would have to admit that would keep low level's out of the spawns
in essence this c/would draw battles into the middle of the playing field and in essence lengthen games out...
The one draw back I see to this is Team A or B sitting in their spawn with the protection it offers thus creating a stale game...
However it does have the possibility to elmininate spawn killing and lengthen games...
The problem is you have to build the structures (thus far) in co maps the armory is already built so ill assume if u put a turret and a factory either or sides...it will spawn built in the CO maps...
However from a mapper pov if this works suit the defenses to the orientation the map presentes...
if u implemented turret defenses in each base (alien and Marine)
You would have to admit that would keep low level's out of the spawns
in essence this c/would draw battles into the middle of the playing field and in essence lengthen games out...
The one draw back I see to this is Team A or B sitting in their spawn with the protection it offers thus creating a stale game...
However it does have the possibility to elmininate spawn killing and lengthen games...
The problem is you have to build the structures (thus far) in co maps the armory is already built so ill assume if u put a turret and a factory either or sides...it will spawn built in the CO maps...
However from a mapper pov if this works suit the defenses to the orientation the map presentes... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good idea, although Combat is fast + furious. Kestrel, is a map with an open marine spawn. That seems to work quite well, until you get lvl 10 fades or an onos, which I think shows that marines will lose without upgrades.
Faceoff is another map where spawn camping is largely responsible, although its a big room, all the spawn points are in the smaller area by the CC <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> So I think co maps are really the spawn plugin (as mentioned) room dimensions and spawn placement. No need to fix combat maps, just tweak.
Everyone else should surrender <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->