Quite simple really, if you're using for the intention of gaining an unfair advantage over another player(I.E. Removing shadows so that people can't hide) It's cheating, if you're using it because your monitor is darker than burnt wheat toast, that really isn't, at that point it's just prefference of using a program over your monitor settings o.O... And if you're wondering what the appropriate gamma etc for NS is: use the gamma test thing that comes with the NS install(or at least used to, I think it still does) it'll show you how bright/contrasted things should be... o.O
P.S. A cheat, and a Hack are two completely different things... Generally, cheating would be defined as trying(and/or succeeding) at gaining an unfair advantage over another player/person/etc. In that sense, an exploit would also be called cheating... at least this is how I see it IMO, none the less, this argument is going nowhere quickly...
as with everything, it's the intension. I don't know what Powerstrip is EXACTLY but I think it changes gamma and enforces refresh rates when supported (like NvRefresh)
It's all in the same way as model concistency. One might use it to have a change of skins, one might use it to have more fps (lo-poly) or one might just use it to make all skulks bright pink with a neon that says "skulk here" on top. That doesn't mean every single custom model user hacks.
In the same perspective, it all depends how you use the program. Of course, the definition of "correct gamma" is included with the game install (check NS folder) and without touching gamma within HL, but I'd say glare (bane of any player that knows what sunlight is) and gaming config (computer/game config) are much more decisive factors in the limits of the reasonable use of a program. (ie, no pink skulks on white walls)
Every Radeon owner (Don't know about geforce, never own em <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) can change their gamma, brigheness, etc on the fly with shortcuts.. so ban all em because they can get a bright screen with no shadows? Well not the point but, I also doubt that mod teams nor gamemakers can "lock" the gamma to some level.. it may have a game setting but can it really lock what your system want's it to be? Aaaaa.. And like many have said here, tuning up gamma too much gives you a unfair advantage over the dark corners in some cases, but as some said they can only see a black screen without it and I have that black screen myself too and I need to tune the gamma up to see anything. And uh, hacks & cheats.. can you compare bright screen to wh or aim, seriously? And bright screen also gives you a headache and makes your eyes bad over time, so gg the gamma dudes! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Ummumm, and someone mentioned sensitivity here, so i'll say few words about it.. as everything you can also change your mouse sensitivity in your system and the "basic" sensitivity of each mouse type differs.. so setting one level of sensitivity only to be allowed also brings bad consequenses... Maybe there could be some variable for the "turningspeed" like there is for forwardspeed and etc.. but I think hl engine is too old for things like that.. let's if we ever get hl1 mods in hl2 engine.. *drool*. Quess most of that is really offtopic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> And one heavy offtopic scifiallsuchsortthing.. marines have really high tech in the year what it was.. 2100 or so? Cool nano stuff and spaceships and all that.. But they don't even have simple light amplifiers so they could see to the dark corners! (And I won't even start talking about infrared, ultrasound and other sort of things thats normal tech in 2004.......) Sounds REALLY realistic, yes yes yes? And the aliens would be TOTALLY blind too, they really never live in dark places so they really never get used to see in the dark, yes yes yes? Must be cool world they live in... all blind. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Okay so maybe I was mentioning the wrong program, that doesn't excuse how big an **** most of you have shown yourselves to be. But I do know and have heard of quite often of a program that can disable the radiosity files in programs. With a name like Power<b>strip</b>, as in, stripping out, I assumed it was this.
Damnit, I wish people would shut up about powerstrip.
Its not a hack. Its not a cheat. Its essential for some people to play the godamn game. End of story.
Im also tired of people harping to eliminate scripting and whatnot. Its not like 1 script makes you a l33t uber n00b. Anything scripting does you can do on your own. It just makes it easier.
Seriously, people need to stop whining so much about cheating. Yeah, speedhackers/wallhackers/aimbotters are annoying, but theyre few and far between. And cmon, its a damn game. If im in a pub where someone is doing that sort of thing, I leave. Wow, that sure was hard.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>[edit] Also, it's been said before, but sarcasm is the lowest form of humor. You aren't being clever or witty, you're being that annoying kid in class who talks with the nasal congestion whose voice goes up and down and up and down who makes the teacher sigh and look at the ground when his hand goes up. Please stop, you contribute nothing.</b></span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>v.</b> cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats <b>v. tr.</b> 1) To deceive by trickery; swindle: <i>cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. </i> 2) To deprive by trickery; defraud: <i>cheated them of their land. </i> 3) To mislead; fool: <i>illusions that cheat the eye. </i> 4) To elude; escape: <i>cheat death.</i> <b> v. intr.</b>1) To act dishonestly; practice fraud. <------ 2) To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: <i>was accused of cheating at cards. </i> <------ 3) Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: <i>cheat on a spouse. </i>
<b>n. </b> 1) An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle. 2) One who cheats; a swindler. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>To begin this, I'd like to say that generally, hardware is not a cheat. Anyone with enough money can buy a double-laser optical mouse with sixty buttons for easy-peasy button binding (READ: BIND != SCRIPT), or a Radeon FPSmaster 98,000,000 Pro, or a 60 inch HDTV monitor. This is an easy enough concept to grasp that even the stupid kiddies who will take every advantage and liberty with the game they can as long as it won't get them caught or banned should be able to get it. Just as you're more likely to have an easier time running the mile in nice, expensive track shoes as opposed to, say, sandals with velcro fasteners, you're going to have a better gameplay experience with lots of expensive PC gadgetry.
People with the money to buy appropriate hardware for their purposes will always have an advantage over poor K-12 kiddies who have to beg their mothers for better isht.
Applications like Powerstrip, or the availability of tweaking for high end video cards have legitimate uses. This I'm sure we can also agree upon. It kind of sucks when you're typing up that essay for your 7th grade english class and you can hardly see the letters on the screen because your parents won't buy you anything made in this decade. Powerstrip may help you in this case by brightening the screen up a bit. Another legitimate use might be to take that seven year old monitor and bump up the brightness so that the game is remotely playable.
I say "remotely playable" of course because shadows aren't a fault of the monitor, they are an intentional map addition by the designers, and are meant to be there. Squinting at the dark, Scent of Fear, spraying shadows just to make sure, motion tracking, and simply avoiding darker areas of the map are all very fair, viable ways of dealing with these intended areas of the maps.
If your monitor is fecal excrement to begin with, and you just hate dealing with it, maybe you should buy a new one. I know they can be expensive, but believe me, it's really nice just being able to see things fine without bothering with all those extra programs and applications and tweaks. However, if you're just some poor grade school kid with no resources available to you, then yeah, maybe you have a legitimate need for tweaking, in order to bring you up to the point of playability, and not an inch further.
If your monitor is fine to begin with, and you are using Powerstrip to play with hyper-bright settings, where the only way to hide from you is to be behind you or actually physically obscured behind a box or wall, as opposed to just being crafty and hiding in plain sight, which WAS INTENDED TO BE POSSIBLE, then <u>you are cheating,</u> whether you want to own up to it or not
also:</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>tr.v. ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits</b> 1) To employ to the greatest possible advantage: <i>exploit one's talents.</i> 2) To make use of selfishly or <u>unethically</u> <----- : <i>a country that exploited peasant labor.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I just figured this was in need of clarifying too. Ethics play a large role in any competition. People have to know for themselves how much of an advantage is fair and balanced. A good competition is one in which all the players hold themselves to high moral standards, and actively promote fair play. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Cheating and exploiting detracts from the fun of the game and the spirit of fair competition.
In closing, I'd like to break here and say that the issue of cheating isn't black and white. There is a whole spectrum of activity which spans from small but effective tricks of the trade, such as bunny hopping, to aimbotting, wallhacking, and the like. Most controversy about what cheating is or is not falls between those two extremes.
I'll admit to bias here and say that I wish we could all have the exact same gaming rig, nearly identical settings, and generally as pure a gaming experience as possible.
However, since video gaming is, unfortunately, dominated mostly by the lower end of the 15-25 age demographic, a group which still has a few years left to mature into rational, thinking adults, the idea of having competitors who hold THEMSELVES to rigorous ethical standards is pretty laughable. I've almost never seen anyone under 20 who wouldn't take ANY advantage you gave him as long as he could get away with it, and that's pretty much the reason we have this whole problem to begin with in a nutshell: Poor competitive spirit.
Thing is, PowerStrip does nothing your normal display drivers can't do in this regard. Right click desktop, go to properties, settings, advanced, colour, 3d apps, and presto you can boost your gamma to whatever you want. The only advantage PowerStrip has over this is that you can assign keyboard shortcuts to adjust it on the fly. This means that instead of going through trial and error, quit game, tweak gamma, launch game, realise it's too dark, quit game, tweak gamma, launch, too bright etc. you can just do it with your keys until it's right.
The shortcuts require holding at least 3 keys, i.e. Ctrl+Shift+Num Plus, so it's not the kind of thing you can do in the middle of a fight.
yea my friend has an old mon and it is way to dark to play ns. man he upgrade his computer without buying a new monitor, he's having trouble with other games <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Listen, it might also be a good idea to stop singling out Powerstrip here too, since you can get the same results by other means and methods.
The topic should read: Is Eliminating <u>intentional</u> shadows and gloom cheating, to which the answer is <b>Yes</b>.
[edit] As opposed to taking a dark, crappy POS monitor and making it reasonably light enough to play, which is valid and defendable as being fair to the disadvantaged players. However, just in the same way that an amputee can run a mile if you give him a balanced set of prosthetic legs and enough time, he just isn't going to beat a fully outfitted olympic track runner who has been running for fun since he was 12 or even younger. That's the nature of competition.
Ok, point being, adjusting a monitor's brightness to make the game playable and fun is NOT cheating, but even if it WAS cheating, why are we arguing about it on a forum anyway? Like that would make them stop cheating because they didn't 'realize' they were doing something unfair? *beats head on wall* Enough of this, yeesh. Somone please lock this topic, aieee.
<!--QuoteBegin-SuperTeflon+Feb 5 2004, 03:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Feb 5 2004, 03:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay so maybe I was mentioning the wrong program, that doesn't excuse how big an **** most of you have shown yourselves to be. But I do know and have heard of quite often of a program that can disable the radiosity files in programs. With a name like Power<b>strip</b>, as in, stripping out, I assumed it was this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, you tell people that they are blatant hackers and should be banned, what do you expect, a detached neutral conversation exploring all of the ramifications of the problem, or if there is even a problem?
If you want to have a real conversation on any matter, you should try not to insult the people you are talking to.
As I said, there is nothing the dev team can do to fix this, well nothing without some serious coding. All you can do it talk to your local server admin and get him to start banning people who can kill you when you are hiding in the dark.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swift Idiot+Feb 5 2004, 05:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Feb 5 2004, 05:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Listen, it might also be a good idea to stop singling out Powerstrip here too, since you can get the same results by other means and methods.
The topic should read: Is Eliminating <u>intentional</u> shadows and gloom cheating, to which the answer is <b>Yes</b>.
[edit] As opposed to taking a dark, crappy POS monitor and making it reasonably light enough to play, which is valid and defendable as being fair to the disadvantaged players. However, just in the same way that an amputee can run a mile if you give him a balanced set of prosthetic legs and enough time, he just isn't going to beat a fully outfitted olympic track runner who has been running for fun since he was 12 or even younger. That's the nature of competition.
Actually it's in the mapping guidelines that areas should never be dark enough to hide a player. It should "FEEL dark without acvtual BEING dark" is I believe the actual quote.
<!--QuoteBegin-eggmac+Feb 5 2004, 08:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Feb 5 2004, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->sad thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> I'd like to think that my post contributed at least <i>something</i>... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Can't I get extra credit for effort?</span>
[edit] <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually it's in the mapping guidelines that areas should never be dark enough to hide a player. It should "FEEL dark without acvtual BEING dark" is I believe the actual quote. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Can someone help me name that Combat map which was recently featured as having little spaces that marines can hide in where an onos can't reach, but where the marines can easily shoot out of on the tables or something, and some smacktard was calling it an exploit? The alien hive room is almost directly ripped off of ns_bast (RIP) Engine Room hive? It has an elevator near MS which leads down into this deeply shadowed vent room, which leads into a nearly pitch black subterranian cooling room or something? And there's that door which has one side just DEEP in darkness large enough to hide a Fade?
ngga plz, WFT is the deal there? If a guideline for map making is that there be no areas large or dark enough to hide a player, that corner needs to go. As it is, I stay with my back pressed to the wall when I get into that room, and even as an alien I dash through there as fast as I can go.
I believe that such areas of a map make the map more fun on the whole. You have nice, bright areas where the reaction-speed junkies can go fight it out, and you have dark and shadowy cargo rooms where you stalk around and play cat and mouse. In just the same way, really successful maps in any mod I've seen have a little something for everyone.
Except maybe awp_map... but we won't go there.
Regardless, I happen to enjoy the ambience of Natural Selection, and I'd like it if I could please hang from the deep, dank turbine shadows and watch your every move (FILTHY HYOO-MON) without you randomly swinging your POV around, spotting me in the complete darkness, and blasting me to goo in point five seconds.</span>
acutally It origionally started as a copy of bast's engine hive room, chrome angel's map that he made quickly for the origionall CO_ testing, he never changed the hiveroom though really, I dunno much more than that, ask him, heh.
in regard to banning people who can see you in a dark corner, I think you should know about another hack called the "minimap" it displays red icons when you see an enemy. I use it in dark areas a lot, and I'll even go so far as to turn on my flashlight and point it at a dark area if I see a red icon in the room with me. Think of that room between U-turn and double res on mineshaft. There's almost always somebody hiding in there. if I see somebody on my minimap, I'll turn on the flash light and click 10 times while the pistol's out. that's one dead skulk.
If I'm an alien and a marine is hiding there, I'll parasite at the corner near the ground (where else would the marine be?) and let my team kill him as I run away before a shot is fired.
I hope that won't get me banned from a server. That'd be lame.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>There are ways to get an advantage by paying attention to little things like the red icons on the minimap in regular NS. These things show up whether you can directly see the enemy or not. If the engine considers the enemy to be within your line of sight, they will be shown on the mini map, even so far as what corner of the room they are in, even if that corner is totally dark.
I believe this is a situation where-in something needs to be fixed. I'd almost consider it a bug in the mini map code that it sometimes shows you things you can't even see. When you only let go of the map button in order to see what is directly in front of you so that you don't walk straight into a skulk, something is funny.
For the meantime, I'd consider the red marks on the map as a feature, not a bug, but it's a pretty fishy feature either way.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-eggmac+Feb 5 2004, 08:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Feb 5 2004, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sad thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Even sadder, people are just posting the same s**t over and over again when it's been answered 20 times over <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Here is the bottom line. If you use any method of changing monitor settings/brightness to give you an advantage over and above anyone else, especially to see in dark corners/cloaked aliens, then you are a complete tard - be it powerstrip or not. I dont think Gamma changes should be locked, and I dont think there is any real way of detecting if someone is stripping shadows away or anything - its just really really poor.
Kinda like mating with a tree in secret. I dont know if you're doing it, I dont know if you're just scratching ur chest with the tree - but if you're doing what I think you're doing, then you are doing the wrong thing.
EDIT
And if I'm not mistaken - eggmac is one of said tards who uses PS to remove shadows for the edge, unless I have the wrong man....
People turn they're gamma up real high to get an advantage in all kinds of FPS games.
I think it's wrong, and I would never do it (I could care less if my kill/dealth is 99-1 or 1-99 as long as I'm having fun, and a whitewashed bright **** screen isn't fun to me), but there really is zilch that you can do about it.
And powerstrip simply blows for overclocking your card, end of story. It's good for gamma hacking, and not much else. There are much better programs to tweak your vidcard with.
<!--QuoteBegin-SuperTeflon+Feb 4 2004, 06:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Feb 4 2004, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I got into this argument with some nubcaek on an IRC channel. According to him, using Powerstrip is completely legit and fine, because it let's him play the game.
I believe that it's a blatant hack, and you really should be banned for using it. It's intentional modification of a map to modify visibility to your advantage. It's no different then changing terrorists so their models have huge spikes coming out of them so you can see them hiding, claiming 'it's too hard without it'.
In case you don't know, Powerstrip is a program that rips apart a map maker's hard work, strips out light entities (or something, I don't know how it works), basically removing ALL shadows from the game, making every room nice a bright so nothing can hide.
What's the NS team's official stance on it? Hacky cheat or not? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> err....powerstrip is used to correct gamma, It dosen't aim for you, it dosen't think for you, I HAD to use it on my old monitor, becuase green looked brown for godssake.
If you want to consider it an unfair advantage thats fine, but it is certainly no hack, heh.
Comments
P.S. A cheat, and a Hack are two completely different things...
Generally, cheating would be defined as trying(and/or succeeding) at gaining an unfair advantage over another player/person/etc. In that sense, an exploit would also be called cheating... at least this is how I see it IMO, none the less, this argument is going nowhere quickly...
It's all in the same way as model concistency. One might use it to have a change of skins, one might use it to have more fps (lo-poly) or one might just use it to make all skulks bright pink with a neon that says "skulk here" on top. That doesn't mean every single custom model user hacks.
In the same perspective, it all depends how you use the program. Of course, the definition of "correct gamma" is included with the game install (check NS folder) and without touching gamma within HL, but I'd say glare (bane of any player that knows what sunlight is) and gaming config (computer/game config) are much more decisive factors in the limits of the reasonable use of a program. (ie, no pink skulks on white walls)
Well not the point but, I also doubt that mod teams nor gamemakers can "lock" the gamma to some level.. it may have a game setting but can it really lock what your system want's it to be? Aaaaa.. And like many have said here, tuning up gamma too much gives you a unfair advantage over the dark corners in some cases, but as some said they can only see a black screen without it and I have that black screen myself too and I need to tune the gamma up to see anything.
And uh, hacks & cheats.. can you compare bright screen to wh or aim, seriously?
And bright screen also gives you a headache and makes your eyes bad over time, so gg the gamma dudes! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ummumm, and someone mentioned sensitivity here, so i'll say few words about it.. as everything you can also change your mouse sensitivity in your system and the "basic" sensitivity of each mouse type differs.. so setting one level of sensitivity only to be allowed also brings bad consequenses... Maybe there could be some variable for the "turningspeed" like there is for forwardspeed and etc.. but I think hl engine is too old for things like that.. let's if we ever get hl1 mods in hl2 engine.. *drool*.
Quess most of that is really offtopic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And one heavy offtopic scifiallsuchsortthing.. marines have really high tech in the year what it was.. 2100 or so? Cool nano stuff and spaceships and all that.. But they don't even have simple light amplifiers so they could see to the dark corners! (And I won't even start talking about infrared, ultrasound and other sort of things thats normal tech in 2004.......) Sounds REALLY realistic, yes yes yes? And the aliens would be TOTALLY blind too, they really never live in dark places so they really never get used to see in the dark, yes yes yes?
Must be cool world they live in... all blind. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Its not a hack. Its not a cheat. Its essential for some people to play the godamn game. End of story.
Im also tired of people harping to eliminate scripting and whatnot. Its not like 1 script makes you a l33t uber n00b. Anything scripting does you can do on your own. It just makes it easier.
Seriously, people need to stop whining so much about cheating. Yeah, speedhackers/wallhackers/aimbotters are annoying, but theyre few and far between. And cmon, its a damn game. If im in a pub where someone is doing that sort of thing, I leave. Wow, that sure was hard.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>v.</b> cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
<b>v. tr.</b>
1) To deceive by trickery; swindle: <i>cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. </i>
2) To deprive by trickery; defraud: <i>cheated them of their land. </i>
3) To mislead; fool: <i>illusions that cheat the eye. </i>
4) To elude; escape: <i>cheat death.</i>
<b>
v. intr.</b>1) To act dishonestly; practice fraud. <------
2) To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: <i>was accused of cheating at cards. </i> <------
3) Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: <i>cheat on a spouse. </i>
<b>n. </b>
1) An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
2) One who cheats; a swindler. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>To begin this, I'd like to say that generally, hardware is not a cheat. Anyone with enough money can buy a double-laser optical mouse with sixty buttons for easy-peasy button binding (READ: BIND != SCRIPT), or a Radeon FPSmaster 98,000,000 Pro, or a 60 inch HDTV monitor. This is an easy enough concept to grasp that even the stupid kiddies who will take every advantage and liberty with the game they can as long as it won't get them caught or banned should be able to get it. Just as you're more likely to have an easier time running the mile in nice, expensive track shoes as opposed to, say, sandals with velcro fasteners, you're going to have a better gameplay experience with lots of expensive PC gadgetry.
People with the money to buy appropriate hardware for their purposes will always have an advantage over poor K-12 kiddies who have to beg their mothers for better isht.
Applications like Powerstrip, or the availability of tweaking for high end video cards have legitimate uses. This I'm sure we can also agree upon. It kind of sucks when you're typing up that essay for your 7th grade english class and you can hardly see the letters on the screen because your parents won't buy you anything made in this decade. Powerstrip may help you in this case by brightening the screen up a bit. Another legitimate use might be to take that seven year old monitor and bump up the brightness so that the game is remotely playable.
I say "remotely playable" of course because shadows aren't a fault of the monitor, they are an intentional map addition by the designers, and are meant to be there. Squinting at the dark, Scent of Fear, spraying shadows just to make sure, motion tracking, and simply avoiding darker areas of the map are all very fair, viable ways of dealing with these intended areas of the maps.
If your monitor is fecal excrement to begin with, and you just hate dealing with it, maybe you should buy a new one. I know they can be expensive, but believe me, it's really nice just being able to see things fine without bothering with all those extra programs and applications and tweaks. However, if you're just some poor grade school kid with no resources available to you, then yeah, maybe you have a legitimate need for tweaking, in order to bring you up to the point of playability, and not an inch further.
If your monitor is fine to begin with, and you are using Powerstrip to play with hyper-bright settings, where the only way to hide from you is to be behind you or actually physically obscured behind a box or wall, as opposed to just being crafty and hiding in plain sight, which WAS INTENDED TO BE POSSIBLE, then <u>you are cheating,</u> whether you want to own up to it or not
also:</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>tr.v. ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits</b>
1) To employ to the greatest possible advantage: <i>exploit one's talents.</i>
2) To make use of selfishly or <u>unethically</u> <----- : <i>a country that exploited peasant labor.</i>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I just figured this was in need of clarifying too. Ethics play a large role in any competition. People have to know for themselves how much of an advantage is fair and balanced. A good competition is one in which all the players hold themselves to high moral standards, and actively promote fair play. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right, or mean that you should. Cheating and exploiting detracts from the fun of the game and the spirit of fair competition.
In closing, I'd like to break here and say that the issue of cheating isn't black and white. There is a whole spectrum of activity which spans from small but effective tricks of the trade, such as bunny hopping, to aimbotting, wallhacking, and the like. Most controversy about what cheating is or is not falls between those two extremes.
I'll admit to bias here and say that I wish we could all have the exact same gaming rig, nearly identical settings, and generally as pure a gaming experience as possible.
However, since video gaming is, unfortunately, dominated mostly by the lower end of the 15-25 age demographic, a group which still has a few years left to mature into rational, thinking adults, the idea of having competitors who hold THEMSELVES to rigorous ethical standards is pretty laughable. I've almost never seen anyone under 20 who wouldn't take ANY advantage you gave him as long as he could get away with it, and that's pretty much the reason we have this whole problem to begin with in a nutshell: Poor competitive spirit.
Good day all.</span>
The shortcuts require holding at least 3 keys, i.e. Ctrl+Shift+Num Plus, so it's not the kind of thing you can do in the middle of a fight.
man he upgrade his computer without buying a new monitor, he's having trouble with other games <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The topic should read: Is Eliminating <u>intentional</u> shadows and gloom cheating, to which the answer is <b>Yes</b>.
[edit] As opposed to taking a dark, crappy POS monitor and making it reasonably light enough to play, which is valid and defendable as being fair to the disadvantaged players. However, just in the same way that an amputee can run a mile if you give him a balanced set of prosthetic legs and enough time, he just isn't going to beat a fully outfitted olympic track runner who has been running for fun since he was 12 or even younger. That's the nature of competition.
Issue resolved.</span>
Well, you tell people that they are blatant hackers and should be banned, what do you expect, a detached neutral conversation exploring all of the ramifications of the problem, or if there is even a problem?
If you want to have a real conversation on any matter, you should try not to insult the people you are talking to.
As I said, there is nothing the dev team can do to fix this, well nothing without some serious coding. All you can do it talk to your local server admin and get him to start banning people who can kill you when you are hiding in the dark.
The topic should read: Is Eliminating <u>intentional</u> shadows and gloom cheating, to which the answer is <b>Yes</b>.
[edit] As opposed to taking a dark, crappy POS monitor and making it reasonably light enough to play, which is valid and defendable as being fair to the disadvantaged players. However, just in the same way that an amputee can run a mile if you give him a balanced set of prosthetic legs and enough time, he just isn't going to beat a fully outfitted olympic track runner who has been running for fun since he was 12 or even younger. That's the nature of competition.
Issue resolved.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Agreed.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>
I'd like to think that my post contributed at least <i>something</i>... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Can't I get extra credit for effort?</span>
[edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually it's in the mapping guidelines that areas should never be dark enough to hide a player. It should "FEEL dark without acvtual BEING dark" is I believe the actual quote. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>
Can someone help me name that Combat map which was recently featured as having little spaces that marines can hide in where an onos can't reach, but where the marines can easily shoot out of on the tables or something, and some smacktard was calling it an exploit? The alien hive room is almost directly ripped off of ns_bast (RIP) Engine Room hive? It has an elevator near MS which leads down into this deeply shadowed vent room, which leads into a nearly pitch black subterranian cooling room or something? And there's that door which has one side just DEEP in darkness large enough to hide a Fade?
ngga plz, WFT is the deal there? If a guideline for map making is that there be no areas large or dark enough to hide a player, that corner needs to go. As it is, I stay with my back pressed to the wall when I get into that room, and even as an alien I dash through there as fast as I can go.
I believe that such areas of a map make the map more fun on the whole. You have nice, bright areas where the reaction-speed junkies can go fight it out, and you have dark and shadowy cargo rooms where you stalk around and play cat and mouse. In just the same way, really successful maps in any mod I've seen have a little something for everyone.
Except maybe awp_map... but we won't go there.
Regardless, I happen to enjoy the ambience of Natural Selection, and I'd like it if I could please hang from the deep, dank turbine shadows and watch your every move (FILTHY HYOO-MON) without you randomly swinging your POV around, spotting me in the complete darkness, and blasting me to goo in point five seconds.</span>
in regard to banning people who can see you in a dark corner, I think you should know about another hack called the "minimap" it displays red icons when you see an enemy. I use it in dark areas a lot, and I'll even go so far as to turn on my flashlight and point it at a dark area if I see a red icon in the room with me.
Think of that room between U-turn and double res on mineshaft. There's almost always somebody hiding in there. if I see somebody on my minimap, I'll turn on the flash light and click 10 times while the pistol's out. that's one dead skulk.
If I'm an alien and a marine is hiding there, I'll parasite at the corner near the ground (where else would the marine be?) and let my team kill him as I run away before a shot is fired.
I hope that won't get me banned from a server. That'd be lame.
I believe this is a situation where-in something needs to be fixed. I'd almost consider it a bug in the mini map code that it sometimes shows you things you can't even see. When you only let go of the map button in order to see what is directly in front of you so that you don't walk straight into a skulk, something is funny.
For the meantime, I'd consider the red marks on the map as a feature, not a bug, but it's a pretty fishy feature either way.</span>
Even sadder, people are just posting the same s**t over and over again when it's been answered 20 times over <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Do not bother posting any more, we have already come to consensus.
Here is the bottom line. If you use any method of changing monitor settings/brightness to give you an advantage over and above anyone else, especially to see in dark corners/cloaked aliens, then you are a complete tard - be it powerstrip or not. I dont think Gamma changes should be locked, and I dont think there is any real way of detecting if someone is stripping shadows away or anything - its just really really poor.
Kinda like mating with a tree in secret. I dont know if you're doing it, I dont know if you're just scratching ur chest with the tree - but if you're doing what I think you're doing, then you are doing the wrong thing.
EDIT
And if I'm not mistaken - eggmac is one of said tards who uses PS to remove shadows for the edge, unless I have the wrong man....
I think it's wrong, and I would never do it (I could care less if my kill/dealth is 99-1 or 1-99 as long as I'm having fun, and a whitewashed bright **** screen isn't fun to me), but there really is zilch that you can do about it.
And powerstrip simply blows for overclocking your card, end of story. It's good for gamma hacking, and not much else. There are much better programs to tweak your vidcard with.
keep preaching your opinions if you want
I believe that it's a blatant hack, and you really should be banned for using it. It's intentional modification of a map to modify visibility to your advantage. It's no different then changing terrorists so their models have huge spikes coming out of them so you can see them hiding, claiming 'it's too hard without it'.
In case you don't know, Powerstrip is a program that rips apart a map maker's hard work, strips out light entities (or something, I don't know how it works), basically removing ALL shadows from the game, making every room nice a bright so nothing can hide.
What's the NS team's official stance on it? Hacky cheat or not? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
err....powerstrip is used to correct gamma, It dosen't aim for you, it dosen't think for you, I HAD to use it on my old monitor, becuase green looked brown for godssake.
If you want to consider it an unfair advantage thats fine, but it is certainly no hack, heh.
I've banned PS? News to me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->