I just finished a rather frustrating game on co_agnst. The hive was at 100%, then two rounds (2) from a GL brought it down to 31%. Two rounds. This bug is real.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Feb 2 2004, 11:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Feb 2 2004, 11:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just finished a rather frustrating game on co_agnst. The hive was at 100%, then two rounds (2) from a GL brought it down to 31%. Two rounds. This bug is real. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That'd be like 2,415 dmg a grenade.
More, hive has 7000 HP meaning the 2 grenades did roughly 4900 damage if what they say is true. With something like this, I doubt someone could have accidentally thought the grenades did all that damage. Personally I don't think they're lying, unlike some vets ....
I'm moving this to beta discussions since we cant get solid steps for reproduction. If you manage to figure out what is going on, please come back with a nwe bug report. <span style='color:red'>**** PHASED ****</span>
This is pure speculation, but I've noticed something recently which could be related. Usually with the shotgun, reloading would occasionally stall, and then suddenly it would jump to 8 chambered shells. I can also recall things tending to die in front of me when this happens, but don't have any major anecdotes. This is different from the usual reloading problems. Try to mess around with mashing the reload key while shooting to see if you can reproduce it.
about the hlmv hitboxes, aren't those ones the viewer makes up by itself? I know they used to not have anything to do with game mechanics, it might've changed since then.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Feb 4 2004, 10:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Feb 4 2004, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> about the hlmv hitboxes, aren't those ones the viewer makes up by itself? I know they used to not have anything to do with game mechanics, it might've changed since then. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you are right, I looked at the 3.0 and 2.0 skulk model and hlmv shows identical hitboxes for both.
The hitboxes themselves have been identical for all versions. The hitbox hit detection hasn't. Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Feb 6 2004, 02:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Feb 6 2004, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The hitboxes themselves have been identical for all versions. The hitbox hit detection hasn't. Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think you are correct on this.
Most part of it should be. Although we would need some mod coder to be sure(not necessarily max or flayra, FireStorm is a coder too I believe)... Bullets in half-life are almost always using the hitscan code, which(IIUC) draws a line from you to where you are aiming, and sees if any player hulls are in the way, and if yes, see if there is a hitbox in the way. If not, it ignores the player hull, and checks if there is one farther away. If not, it hits the wall/whatever. Although bullet marks & blood splatches are simulated clientside. Which is why you can go "WTH I shot half a clip into you, I SAW the blood splatches!" sometimes.
Okay... now I'm a believer. I was a fade, i was at 300/100 with cara and regen, and this guy hit me with 1 (one) shotgun round, and I died. He claimed to have lvl 2 wep.
<!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Feb 2 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Feb 2 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have seen the shotgun do 220+ damage, It seems a bit random however, I have done dead on shots that did 60 damage, and the next shot without me moving or the target moving and it performed 220+ damage, then 60 damage, 60, 60, 180, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ya, for a shotgun at lvl3 if all pellets hit, it's -220 damage, lvl2 -200 and lvl1 -180
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 6 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 6 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Align+Feb 6 2004, 02:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Feb 6 2004, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The hitboxes themselves have been identical for all versions. The hitbox hit detection hasn't. Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think you are correct on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He is correct. I presume Max haxored the hitscan code so it only checked for hitboxes.
Now, assuming that the HLMV hitboxes have some (or any) relation to the ingame hitboxes, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that during certain frames in an animation, when hit from the right angle, you'd be able to hit 2 hitboxes with one bullet? Normally impossible because they don't overlap, but if just for a few frames 2 hitboxes share a common boundry, and for those few frames a bullet hits that area and realises it's hit 2 objects at once, what would happen?
Yea, got a few insta-gibs myself. Getting shot down by a sg is not nice -especially when he is shooting from the other end of a long corridor. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Brings CS to mind... insta-gibs, my arse; like three bullets per skulk weren't bad enough)
I think this deserves some debug code at least. Have any instance of 300+ damage, maybe 500+ damage for hmg over the course of one second written to a log file, and damage from one grenade to one entity (player hive or chamber) > 1000 logged as well.
Or, at least do something that will allow us to get actual data in the event of a freak accident like this.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Feb 8 2004, 08:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Feb 8 2004, 08:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Align, AFAIK collision hulls are allways rectangular blocks with faces parallell to the coordinate axes and dont rotate with the player. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that what I just said?
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Feb 8 2004, 06:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Feb 8 2004, 06:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Align, AFAIK collision hulls are allways rectangular blocks with faces parallell to the coordinate axes and dont rotate with the player. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes however in Max's custom hitbox code included with 3.0 beta, the hitboxes themselves certainly rotate with the horizontally with the player (though vertical rotation was taken out as it was highly buggy)
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
there is definatly a bug of some kind at work here, im adding my support to this thread as well, i cannot even fathom how many times i have shot a skulk in the face with a shotgun, and none of the damage registers. the bullets richochet of of his head as if they were hitting a wall, no blood, just grey richochet marks.
me : "WTH! i shot you in the face!!!! what hp? omgz0r?
evil-skulk : "hahah, stupid marine, im at full health!"
it happens to me quite frequently, (and no its not lag, 60 ping on average)
so i might be able to get a demo of it, its the weirdest thing youve ever seen....
P.S. now that i think about it, the hits dont register when i shoot the skulk head-on. side-shots still go through normally, it must be something wrong with his mouth-head's hitbox.
I've gotten what NeonSpyder has mentioned time and time again. Some games it comes more often than not. I've only had the problem on skulks, as I can recall and only when they are looking me in the face (face straight at me). This is something I'd love to be explained. I'm sure it happens to virtually everyone, considering the number of times it happens to me alone. I've only seen it with the shotgun, but the shotgun is also my most common weapon of choice.(30-50 ping, 100fps+)
As for the other bug, I'm uncertain. There are times I feel I did not take enough damage to die, but I've never been real big on watching my health either. I'm usually very good at estimating my time to live inside of marine quarters and it's worked out quite well for me in the past. So it is possible, but I have nothing set in stone to add. I'd be much thrilled if this was an issue and was solved -- despite not making too great an impact on my game, just a few fewer deaths.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-NeonSpyder+Feb 8 2004, 06:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NeonSpyder @ Feb 8 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there is definatly a bug of some kind at work here, im adding my support to this thread as well, i cannot even fathom how many times i have shot a skulk in the face with a shotgun, and none of the damage registers. the bullets richochet of of his head as if they were hitting a wall, no blood, just grey richochet marks.
me : "WTH! i shot you in the face!!!! what hp? omgz0r?
evil-skulk : "hahah, stupid marine, im at full health!"
it happens to me quite frequently, (and no its not lag, 60 ping on average)
so i might be able to get a demo of it, its the weirdest thing youve ever seen....
P.S. now that i think about it, the hits dont register when i shoot the skulk head-on. side-shots still go through normally, it must be something wrong with his mouth-head's hitbox. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This discussion is about a bug that allows you to deal super damage, not about not being able to deal damage. The bug that you're talking about does exist as well, but it is not the focus of this discussion.
Sometimes I need 8 shotgun blasts to kill a skulk. A few beta versions (don't know exactly which version, maybe it was before the beta 1) earlier I killed skulks with average 2 blasts. I am pretty sure I hit them in the face but they just don't die.
On the other hand the extreme damage issue. It happened many times to me but I always thought it was just a lag player that killed me. I attacked marine spawn as onos which was defended by ~8 turrets. I destroyed 2 turrets then a marine spawned. I turned around and ran out of the base (had like 500 health). Marine shoots like 10 bullets - dead.
The damage issue doesn't happen all the time but the skulk/shotgun issue is quite annoying.
Ive had problems with the shotgun in general. At certain times, it just wont reload, and I have 0 shells... yet I can fire and produce no bullets, but I certainly do damage... a LOT of damage. Ive killed skulks at the end of a hall. Then the shotty usually snaps back to having ammo and being normal. Weird.
Though I think we need to a bit more careful before screaming "OMG BUG FX 1T!". Regen heals health first and armor second... and even if your missing 1 hp, its going to heal that before starting on armor. So even 1 turret shooting at you is basically preventing you from regening armor. And as we all know, when your armor goes, that health falls pretty fast. I know ingame I usually dont keep as close of an eye on my armor as I do my health, so that may be the cause of some of these insta-deaths. Low/No armor.
I also agree however that this thing exists. Personally, ive never experienced it with an Onos, but I have quite a bit as a Fade. Maybe its the fault of the marine weapons, a cosmetic thing like sounds/visuals not being used, hitbox overlapping of some sort, or maybe just player error. But either way, I think its something that needs to be investigated.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
well, sorry about the shotgun-skulk issue that i talked about. it just felt like it needed to be said.
yes, i have also had a problem with the shotgun like weggy. when your reloading and click the fire button, nothing happens, but if you click it rapidly while reloading you will actually fire two rounds, one right after the other. and do damage equal to two shotgun blasts in the time it takes to fire once.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
hehehehe, ok, ok. returning to topic. i have experienced the bug the topic is about, dropping from 600/30o hp as onos to 50, and then dying happens on occasion, i do not know what causes it, i can only geuss that it possibly related to the new hitbox code. either way. im supporting the fact that there definatly is a problem here. and there is a bug that causes super damage. IMHO (happy now sarisel? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Yesterday, I played as a fade in Eclipse. The regular aliens-winning situation; marines camping in base at MS and aliens trying to end the game. Okay; I got 300 hp (full) and 60 armor. Blinked in, swiped one marine down, tried to blink out. Couldn't because the railing was blocking me for a second. Looking at the railing, I saw my hp pretty clearly <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bang, next second I was dead, and you know what? Before that last bullet hit home, I had 213 hp, but the armor had just hit 0. That's my guess of the reason of insta-gibs.
Comments
That'd be like 2,415 dmg a grenade.
<span style='color:red'>**** PHASED ****</span>
I think you are right, I looked at the 3.0 and 2.0 skulk model and hlmv shows identical hitboxes for both.
The hitbox hit detection hasn't.
Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit.
The hitbox hit detection hasn't.
Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you are correct on this.
Although we would need some mod coder to be sure(not necessarily max or flayra, FireStorm is a coder too I believe)...
Bullets in half-life are almost always using the hitscan code, which(IIUC) draws a line from you to where you are aiming, and sees if any player hulls are in the way, and if yes, see if there is a hitbox in the way. If not, it ignores the player hull, and checks if there is one farther away. If not, it hits the wall/whatever.
Although bullet marks & blood splatches are simulated clientside. Which is why you can go "WTH I shot half a clip into you, I SAW the blood splatches!" sometimes.
Explain!?
ya, for a shotgun at lvl3 if all pellets hit, it's -220 damage, lvl2 -200 and lvl1 -180
grenade launcher direct hit: lvl1 -274, lvl2 -300 , lvl3 -324
The hitbox hit detection hasn't.
Previous versions needed a bullet to go through a player hull before it checked if it went through a hitbox- and since you can't do rectangular hulls(that would be silly if it was possible, no turning around just because you're close to a wall?), they had to use the "crouch" hull for the skulk- which is shorter than the skulk model, and therefore it's hitboxes, meaning it was hard to hit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you are correct on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He is correct. I presume Max haxored the hitscan code so it only checked for hitboxes.
(Brings CS to mind... insta-gibs, my arse; like three bullets per skulk weren't bad enough)
Or, at least do something that will allow us to get actual data in the event of a freak accident like this.
Isn't that what I just said?
Yes however in Max's custom hitbox code included with 3.0 beta, the hitboxes themselves certainly rotate with the horizontally with the player (though vertical rotation was taken out as it was highly buggy)
me : "WTH! i shot you in the face!!!! what hp? omgz0r?
evil-skulk : "hahah, stupid marine, im at full health!"
it happens to me quite frequently, (and no its not lag, 60 ping on average)
so i might be able to get a demo of it, its the weirdest thing youve ever seen....
P.S. now that i think about it, the hits dont register when i shoot the skulk head-on. side-shots still go through normally, it must be something wrong with his mouth-head's hitbox.
As for the other bug, I'm uncertain. There are times I feel I did not take enough damage to die, but I've never been real big on watching my health either. I'm usually very good at estimating my time to live inside of marine quarters and it's worked out quite well for me in the past. So it is possible, but I have nothing set in stone to add. I'd be much thrilled if this was an issue and was solved -- despite not making too great an impact on my game, just a few fewer deaths.
me : "WTH! i shot you in the face!!!! what hp? omgz0r?
evil-skulk : "hahah, stupid marine, im at full health!"
it happens to me quite frequently, (and no its not lag, 60 ping on average)
so i might be able to get a demo of it, its the weirdest thing youve ever seen....
P.S. now that i think about it, the hits dont register when i shoot the skulk head-on. side-shots still go through normally, it must be something wrong with his mouth-head's hitbox. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This discussion is about a bug that allows you to deal super damage, not about not being able to deal damage. The bug that you're talking about does exist as well, but it is not the focus of this discussion.
Sometimes I need 8 shotgun blasts to kill a skulk. A few beta versions (don't know exactly which version, maybe it was before the beta 1) earlier I killed skulks with average 2 blasts. I am pretty sure I hit them in the face but they just don't die.
On the other hand the extreme damage issue. It happened many times to me but I always thought it was just a lag player that killed me.
I attacked marine spawn as onos which was defended by ~8 turrets. I destroyed 2 turrets then a marine spawned. I turned around and ran out of the base (had like 500 health). Marine shoots like 10 bullets - dead.
The damage issue doesn't happen all the time but the skulk/shotgun issue is quite annoying.
Though I think we need to a bit more careful before screaming "OMG BUG FX 1T!". Regen heals health first and armor second... and even if your missing 1 hp, its going to heal that before starting on armor. So even 1 turret shooting at you is basically preventing you from regening armor. And as we all know, when your armor goes, that health falls pretty fast. I know ingame I usually dont keep as close of an eye on my armor as I do my health, so that may be the cause of some of these insta-deaths. Low/No armor.
I also agree however that this thing exists. Personally, ive never experienced it with an Onos, but I have quite a bit as a Fade. Maybe its the fault of the marine weapons, a cosmetic thing like sounds/visuals not being used, hitbox overlapping of some sort, or maybe just player error. But either way, I think its something that needs to be investigated.
yes, i have also had a problem with the shotgun like weggy. when your reloading and click the fire button, nothing happens, but if you click it rapidly while reloading you will actually fire two rounds, one right after the other. and do damage equal to two shotgun blasts in the time it takes to fire once.
/sarcasm
Bang, next second I was dead, and you know what? Before that last bullet hit home, I had 213 hp, but the armor had just hit 0. That's my guess of the reason of insta-gibs.