also let me add this in....i'm just making observation from what i've seen and experienced...but i still can accept the fact that i'm wrong because i love marines....and yes sometimes you can just own with marines but i think you have to TOTALLY dominant the early game like at leasta ratio of 3:1 marine kills to alien kills....just my opinion tho....either that or some very clever work which can be done but is usually detected.
<!--QuoteBegin--TOOL+Nov 3 2003, 08:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOOL @ Nov 3 2003, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no but seriously it takes ALOT more cleverness and strategy for marines to win and some maps are damned near impossible to win with marines unless aliens just are not good at all....such as ns_lost <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> could not agree more...
lost and mine shaft, and bast should be burned at the stake.
as for ballence... marines get more of a advantage at higher numbers.... but then aliens start to be come disadvantaged after anything higher then 8vs8 unless the map is massive.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Nov 4 2003, 03:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Nov 4 2003, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People that say 'go watch a clan match' need to be banned. From living. It's so tiresome to hear them spew the same rhetoric over and over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Go watch a clan match.
Who cares if it's tiring, if it's true? The clan evrioment provides the best aspect to by which one should judge the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 09:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lost and mine shaft, and bast should be burned at the stake. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hera is my 'witch of the week' in terms of marine unfairness. the nearest res node is miles away, and the closest one has to be welded through from the other side. holoroom is good, but processing needs to be re worked
TOOL- i am to assume that you play for a team in either CAL or UGL seeing as how u kno wso much about it...but let me break it down for you...
6v6 is perfect...the numbers are made to make the game more challenging...if you add more players lots of rooms become very crouded and its to easy to hold any spot on the map...if you subtrace players then there are not enuff people to hold any spot on the map for more than a few second...i look at it in the same way i do CS...they play 5v5...there are generally 3 places to cover so u have a 2-2-1...just as in NS u have lets say 2-3 nodes not encluding base node and base itself...that makes a decent hold positions with oportunity for back up when needed as long as the nodes are not very spread out...there is a point to everything in these types of games and i for one thing that 6v6 is the perfect number...thing just get out of control when u get above that cause then even the most skilled rines can take on 3 skulks at once...ya know
I disagree maybe that number is balanced and maybe I'm wrong but there are too many maps out there that are too spread out and too hard for marines to hold any RT's in a 6v6 game....I personally feel tanith and maps of that size are the most balanced maps....
First 3:30 of the game is the marines' time to own. How well they do in those first minutes will determine how easy or hard it is for them to deal with the next few minutes: the aliens' time to own. Usually after this its a mixture of the 2 phases that decides who wins the 3rd phase and ultimately the round. Marines can't mess around early. They need to get the hell out of the base, cap, kill, and upgrade. After that they have to do as well as they can to keep the aliens off their stuff til they have their kill button: jp/HA/phase-siege. Then it's all up to how well they use their equipment.
This is most games but not all. There are plenty of other ways to play but this is the most common.
7v7 would make it slightly slower getting fades, but you could have five fades almost as quick.... 8v8 marines could out spawn the hell out of you with 2 ip's and never let you out of the hive 9v9 it just gets worse
<!--QuoteBegin--TOOL+Nov 4 2003, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOOL @ Nov 4 2003, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree lucid...I do think NS game should be a little larger...especially if the map demands it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said anything about making the games larger. I pointed out why larger games would suck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know how good fades are?In the hands of a skilled player......THEY-ARE-GOD.
You simply cant kill these players,unless you manage to block their escape...somehow....or they accidentally get stuck.....
People who say shotties own fade - Go.Watch.Pro.Fade.Demos.K.Thxs.Bye.
And yes...6 vs 6 IS slanted towards the aliens,and yes its counted fast res.I consider 1 res per 10 seconds fast res(since thats about the point where aliens can go fade/onos/spam ocs pretty easily),and thats achievable with a 6 man team,with 3 alien rts.Now there about 2-3 rts near each hive....so its not,terribly difficult for the aliens to do this....
2 Skulks scout,see if they relocating,what marines doing,etc.One saves for fade,the other saves for DC 4 gorg for rts(one outside the hive,one inside future 2nd hive,one outside future 2nd hive,one between the your current and future hive).
At this point,its 1 vs 5 and everyone is getting 1 res per nearly 5 seconds.It should be about 2 minutes by now.Im estimating the 2 savers have about 30-35 res by now.At this point,one of the skulks will get the 3 dcs...thats 40 res...where will he get the lastr 5-10 res?When hes building the other 2 dcs.5 rts remember?
The other skulk,usually the best fade in the clan will go fade pretty soon.At that point....any rts the marines have,electrified or not,simply dissapear.Marines rush in,try to kill the fade...fade blinks off to another rt...marines rush to that rt...fade blinks away....its a no-win situation dude,especially seeing as how slow the marines are.The 4 ex-gorgs should fade within 3-4 minutes.At that point with 5 regen fades,you simply rush their base.Its 5 regen fades,vs 5 LA/LMG marines,with a few shotties at best.You blink in beside the shotgunner,he hits you maybe once,but unfornatley hes already dead due to swipe.
The only way marines can stop this,is,if they are so pro...you arent sure if they are using aimbots or if they are that good.
And this is balance...how?I think the alien-alien ties in CAL,your local tournaments,etc all speak for themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen a few demo's in my time... Anyway Killing fades is pretty much a team skill in NS for good clans. You need to block em trap em trick em or shotty em or mines em. But Fades are not unstoppable at all. Also the thing is pressure. While ur putting up ur nodes it can't just be theory. Remember the marines are trying to take them down. And marines do get in 3-1 kill ratio generally early on in clan matchs. till about 4 minute mark.
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Nov 4 2003, 04:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Nov 4 2003, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know how good fades are?In the hands of a skilled player......THEY-ARE-GOD.
You simply cant kill these players,unless you manage to block their escape...somehow....or they accidentally get stuck.....
People who say shotties own fade - Go.Watch.Pro.Fade.Demos.K.Thxs.Bye.
And yes...6 vs 6 IS slanted towards the aliens,and yes its counted fast res.I consider 1 res per 10 seconds fast res(since thats about the point where aliens can go fade/onos/spam ocs pretty easily),and thats achievable with a 6 man team,with 3 alien rts.Now there about 2-3 rts near each hive....so its not,terribly difficult for the aliens to do this....
2 Skulks scout,see if they relocating,what marines doing,etc.One saves for fade,the other saves for DC 4 gorg for rts(one outside the hive,one inside future 2nd hive,one outside future 2nd hive,one between the your current and future hive).
At this point,its 1 vs 5 and everyone is getting 1 res per nearly 5 seconds.It should be about 2 minutes by now.Im estimating the 2 savers have about 30-35 res by now.At this point,one of the skulks will get the 3 dcs...thats 40 res...where will he get the lastr 5-10 res?When hes building the other 2 dcs.5 rts remember?
The other skulk,usually the best fade in the clan will go fade pretty soon.At that point....any rts the marines have,electrified or not,simply dissapear.Marines rush in,try to kill the fade...fade blinks off to another rt...marines rush to that rt...fade blinks away....its a no-win situation dude,especially seeing as how slow the marines are.The 4 ex-gorgs should fade within 3-4 minutes.At that point with 5 regen fades,you simply rush their base.Its 5 regen fades,vs 5 LA/LMG marines,with a few shotties at best.You blink in beside the shotgunner,he hits you maybe once,but unfornatley hes already dead due to swipe.
The only way marines can stop this,is,if they are so pro...you arent sure if they are using aimbots or if they are that good.
And this is balance...how?I think the alien-alien ties in CAL,your local tournaments,etc all speak for themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen a few demo's in my time... Anyway Killing fades is pretty much a team skill in NS for good clans. You need to block em trap em trick em or shotty em or mines em. But Fades are not unstoppable at all. Also the thing is pressure. While ur putting up ur nodes it can't just be theory. Remember the marines are trying to take them down. And marines do get in 3-1 kill ratio generally early on in clan matchs. till about 4 minute mark. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For all of you griping about the unkillablity of Fades.
You'll love 2.1 Fades are much easier to hit. Those uber players that own with Fades will probably continue to own, but they will have to be a hell of a lot more careful.
Comments
could not agree more...
lost and mine shaft, and bast should be burned at the stake.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
as for ballence... marines get more of a advantage at higher numbers.... but then aliens start to be come disadvantaged after anything higher then 8vs8 unless the map is massive.
Go watch a clan match.
Who cares if it's tiring, if it's true? The clan evrioment provides the best aspect to by which one should judge the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hera is my 'witch of the week' in terms of marine unfairness. the nearest res node is miles away, and the closest one has to be welded through from the other side. holoroom is good, but processing needs to be re worked
6v6 is perfect...the numbers are made to make the game more challenging...if you add more players lots of rooms become very crouded and its to easy to hold any spot on the map...if you subtrace players then there are not enuff people to hold any spot on the map for more than a few second...i look at it in the same way i do CS...they play 5v5...there are generally 3 places to cover so u have a 2-2-1...just as in NS u have lets say 2-3 nodes not encluding base node and base itself...that makes a decent hold positions with oportunity for back up when needed as long as the nodes are not very spread out...there is a point to everything in these types of games and i for one thing that 6v6 is the perfect number...thing just get out of control when u get above that cause then even the most skilled rines can take on 3 skulks at once...ya know
This is most games but not all. There are plenty of other ways to play but this is the most common.
7v7 would make it slightly slower getting fades, but you could have five fades almost as quick....
8v8 marines could out spawn the hell out of you with 2 ip's and never let you out of the hive
9v9 it just gets worse
I never said anything about making the games larger. I pointed out why larger games would suck.
You simply cant kill these players,unless you manage to block their escape...somehow....or they accidentally get stuck.....
People who say shotties own fade - Go.Watch.Pro.Fade.Demos.K.Thxs.Bye.
And yes...6 vs 6 IS slanted towards the aliens,and yes its counted fast res.I consider 1 res per 10 seconds fast res(since thats about the point where aliens can go fade/onos/spam ocs pretty easily),and thats achievable with a 6 man team,with 3 alien rts.Now there about 2-3 rts near each hive....so its not,terribly difficult for the aliens to do this....
2 Skulks scout,see if they relocating,what marines doing,etc.One saves for fade,the other saves for DC
4 gorg for rts(one outside the hive,one inside future 2nd hive,one outside future 2nd hive,one between the your current and future hive).
At this point,its 1 vs 5 and everyone is getting 1 res per nearly 5 seconds.It should be about 2 minutes by now.Im estimating the 2 savers have about 30-35 res by now.At this point,one of the skulks will get the 3 dcs...thats 40 res...where will he get the lastr 5-10 res?When hes building the other 2 dcs.5 rts remember?
The other skulk,usually the best fade in the clan will go fade pretty soon.At that point....any rts the marines have,electrified or not,simply dissapear.Marines rush in,try to kill the fade...fade blinks off to another rt...marines rush to that rt...fade blinks away....its a no-win situation dude,especially seeing as how slow the marines are.The 4 ex-gorgs should fade within 3-4 minutes.At that point with 5 regen fades,you simply rush their base.Its 5 regen fades,vs 5 LA/LMG marines,with a few shotties at best.You blink in beside the shotgunner,he hits you maybe once,but unfornatley hes already dead due to swipe.
The only way marines can stop this,is,if they are so pro...you arent sure if they are using aimbots or if they are that good.
And this is balance...how?I think the alien-alien ties in CAL,your local tournaments,etc all speak for themselves.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen a few demo's in my time... Anyway Killing fades is pretty much a team skill in NS for good clans. You need to block em trap em trick em or shotty em or mines em. But Fades are not unstoppable at all. Also the thing is pressure. While ur putting up ur nodes it can't just be theory. Remember the marines are trying to take them down. And marines do get in 3-1 kill ratio generally early on in clan matchs. till about 4 minute mark.
You simply cant kill these players,unless you manage to block their escape...somehow....or they accidentally get stuck.....
People who say shotties own fade - Go.Watch.Pro.Fade.Demos.K.Thxs.Bye.
And yes...6 vs 6 IS slanted towards the aliens,and yes its counted fast res.I consider 1 res per 10 seconds fast res(since thats about the point where aliens can go fade/onos/spam ocs pretty easily),and thats achievable with a 6 man team,with 3 alien rts.Now there about 2-3 rts near each hive....so its not,terribly difficult for the aliens to do this....
2 Skulks scout,see if they relocating,what marines doing,etc.One saves for fade,the other saves for DC
4 gorg for rts(one outside the hive,one inside future 2nd hive,one outside future 2nd hive,one between the your current and future hive).
At this point,its 1 vs 5 and everyone is getting 1 res per nearly 5 seconds.It should be about 2 minutes by now.Im estimating the 2 savers have about 30-35 res by now.At this point,one of the skulks will get the 3 dcs...thats 40 res...where will he get the lastr 5-10 res?When hes building the other 2 dcs.5 rts remember?
The other skulk,usually the best fade in the clan will go fade pretty soon.At that point....any rts the marines have,electrified or not,simply dissapear.Marines rush in,try to kill the fade...fade blinks off to another rt...marines rush to that rt...fade blinks away....its a no-win situation dude,especially seeing as how slow the marines are.The 4 ex-gorgs should fade within 3-4 minutes.At that point with 5 regen fades,you simply rush their base.Its 5 regen fades,vs 5 LA/LMG marines,with a few shotties at best.You blink in beside the shotgunner,he hits you maybe once,but unfornatley hes already dead due to swipe.
The only way marines can stop this,is,if they are so pro...you arent sure if they are using aimbots or if they are that good.
And this is balance...how?I think the alien-alien ties in CAL,your local tournaments,etc all speak for themselves.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen a few demo's in my time... Anyway Killing fades is pretty much a team skill in NS for good clans. You need to block em trap em trick em or shotty em or mines em. But Fades are not unstoppable at all. Also the thing is pressure. While ur putting up ur nodes it can't just be theory. Remember the marines are trying to take them down. And marines do get in 3-1 kill ratio generally early on in clan matchs. till about 4 minute mark. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For all of you griping about the unkillablity of Fades.
You'll love 2.1 Fades are much easier to hit. Those uber players that own with Fades will probably continue to own, but they will have to be a hell of a lot more careful.