6v6 Games Unbalanced...

TOOL

<div class="IPBDescription">IMHO</div> I seriously believe 6v6 games are completely one-sided towards aliens if both teams have equal talent. This of course is my opinion but i think games should be set to like 7v7 or even 8v8 making the games require more strategy for aliens to win...

Pheus

lies.

TOOL

maybe its the map design but its very hard for marines to take crucial points on a map such as ns_lost and i think almost half the CAL league ended up tying with alien-alien wins.

sk84zer0

negative

gekigarion

Actually I've noticed that even though the teams are say, "even" 6 v 6, 7 v 7, etc.

The commander counts one out for the marines in a way.

Gorges are weak, but the commander provides a function that is completely necessary for the team. Plus, gorges can kill sometimes and make great support units...

TOOL

no but seriously it takes ALOT more cleverness and strategy for marines to win and some maps are damned near impossible to win with marines unless aliens just are not good at all....such as ns_lost

Mythr1l

6v6 games are unbalanced because fades > everything.

most games end 1-1 ties because aliens are overpowered and marines are underpowered.

SiDSquishy

When we tie, We tie marine marine alot more frequently then alien alien. Marines are all about organization and teamwork really if you get that down they may even have an advantage.

TOOL

squishy, your not in CAL....are you playing with pubbers?....even if you are organized if you send ur whole team to one spot you lose because the aliens will take every node and will lock you down and if you try to rambo to take out alien nodes (which is the marines only choice) skulks will rack up kills and go fade waaaay too quickly...

BOBDolol

Tool's right, games DO usually end in alien-alien ties because fades>all.

SiDSquishy

Yes maybe usually, but I said once you get to a certain point of organization and teamwork marines will usually tie. And I am in cal.

TOOL

that's a big negative if aliens have equal organization than marines then they will always win...not to mention unless your gonna sacrifice 2 of those 5 marines to guard ur nodes (electrified or not) an early regen fade is gonna make ur res go bye bye...GG

relsan

Hehe, TOOL. Does this mean your cap every res node strat doesn't work in 6v6? Back to the drawing board I guess.

SiDSquishy

Im pretty sure I have some idea what im talking about <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

TOOL

relsan that only worked in small games as i explained.....i tried in larger games and it worked less often but none the less worked some of the time due to teamstacking....and really a early good fade will end the game...that it, so marines are forced to attack aliens randomly throughout map and consistently to even have a chance

SiDSquishy

Ask chickenhead about it sometime. He'll tell you why really really good rines > really really good aliens. Im to lazy mebe tomorrow.

Forlorn

I think, if anything, large games are overpowered towards the marines.

Small games are more suited for aliens. I think with a cost of 60 res, marines will have the advantage, esp. on large games, untill the arms lab unproportionality is fixed.

TOOL

yes but 6v6 is a small game in ns standards....yes and marine should win large games

Arcadius

<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 3 2003, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 3 2003, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think, if anything, large games are overpowered towards the marines.

Small games are more suited for aliens. I think with a cost of 60 res, marines will have the advantage, esp. on large games, untill the arms lab unproportionality is fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta agree with Forlorn here. Large games are lopsided marines and small games lopsided towards aliens. From the demos I've watched and the clanners I've talked to (I'm a pubber btw) it sounds like 6v6 is still in the "small" category where aliens own. Is 2.1 going to address this so the game will be closer to balanced at all game sizes?

SiDSquishy

6v6 is fairly even with organization at the proper level marines have an edge. Above that marines do have an advantage which is why it's kept at 6v6 for matchs.

Frogg2

It's not so much the fades that are overpowered, as it is the alien res flow at 6 players.

ThE_HeRo

The only reasons that aliens own small games is their ability to respond to things is much faster than the marines due to skulk speed and hivesight, and the way aliens get res.

TOOL

exactly....the res flow is too quick for aliens at 6v6 so i say either bump clan games up to 7v7 should resolve some balancing issues

Swiftspear

on pub server the rine ussually will win if they get a 3 to 7 res node ratio in the early game, they need less minerals to be effective. once they have bunkered into a spot it is really hard to weed em out, and with 3 nodes, and phase gates at each, a good rine time can sit pretty until they are hevied and JP'd up enough to slowly expand through the map. This could of course be because there are no good fades on pubs, but unless the aliens have 3 hives, the fade isnt the best base stomping evo either way, is it?

SiDSquishy

...... The res flow is not to quick with 6 ppl. It's to quick with 5. With 6 most ppl think aliens have a slight advantage. Really marines still have a slight advantage. If you bump it to 7 then marines will have a very noticeable advantage.

Jim_has_Skillz

Yes, 7vs7 will get more Marine wins because fading will take longer and marines will be spread out a lot more around the map. Also, I wouldn't contradict Squishy's points and say they are invalid. He IS in CAL and is part of one of the top ten teams... Although I don't know why he has [SiD] as his tag, and why he didn't register months ago. They scrim a lot and they know what they are talking about.

Although, you do have to have good marines to stand a chance on marines and win as them.

Hunty

You know how good fades are?In the hands of a skilled player......THEY-ARE-GOD.

You simply cant kill these players,unless you manage to block their escape...somehow....or they accidentally get stuck.....

People who say shotties own fade - Go.Watch.Pro.Fade.Demos.K.Thxs.Bye.

And yes...6 vs 6 IS slanted towards the aliens,and yes its counted fast res.I consider 1 res per 10 seconds fast res(since thats about the point where aliens can go fade/onos/spam ocs pretty easily),and thats achievable with a 6 man team,with 3 alien rts.Now there about 2-3 rts near each hive....so its not,terribly difficult for the aliens to do this....

2 Skulks scout,see if they relocating,what marines doing,etc.One saves for fade,the other saves for DC
4 gorg for rts(one outside the hive,one inside future 2nd hive,one outside future 2nd hive,one between the your current and future hive).

At this point,its 1 vs 5 and everyone is getting 1 res per nearly 5 seconds.It should be about 2 minutes by now.Im estimating the 2 savers have about 30-35 res by now.At this point,one of the skulks will get the 3 dcs...thats 40 res...where will he get the lastr 5-10 res?When hes building the other 2 dcs.5 rts remember?

The other skulk,usually the best fade in the clan will go fade pretty soon.At that point....any rts the marines have,electrified or not,simply dissapear.Marines rush in,try to kill the fade...fade blinks off to another rt...marines rush to that rt...fade blinks away....its a no-win situation dude,especially seeing as how slow the marines are.The 4 ex-gorgs should fade within 3-4 minutes.At that point with 5 regen fades,you simply rush their base.Its 5 regen fades,vs 5 LA/LMG marines,with a few shotties at best.You blink in beside the shotgunner,he hits you maybe once,but unfornatley hes already dead due to swipe.

The only way marines can stop this,is,if they are so pro...you arent sure if they are using aimbots or if they are that good.

And this is balance...how?I think the alien-alien ties in CAL,your local tournaments,etc all speak for themselves.

StoatBringer

Save your lies for the judge!!!1!

UGLAndrew

*cough*

Hunty, yes, go do that, i'll love to see all those 4 gorges out of base getting rt's while 3-4 marines just walk smoothly to your hive and take it out, and even if they didn't take it out, it would keep the whole other side of the map open where the 5th guy can just go and capture all the res on that side of the map for the marines, and quick jp upgrades or ha.

Now for fades, yes they are damn hard to kill in open areas like, Marine spawn on Lost, holoroom, etc etc. That's why... you use mines i find them to be more effective then just a gun. Place 3 mines down in a really smart place and whenever a fade walks by... there goes the fade.

3 mines kill a regen fade
4-5 mines kill a carpace fade

And if you put them in really good places, no reason why those fades shouldn't die while they retreat. (unless if they really pay close attention)

The only time i see marines lose is either because:

1) aliens didn't allow them to get any res nodes
2) they do too many mistakes while playing.
3) or if it's a top team playing a lower skilled team.

If it doesn't make sense sorry i just woke up and i'm really tired <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Pheus

a shotgunner with good aim may not be able to "pwn the fade" but he sure as hell takes the fade out of the game. Any good fade knows to stay away from the shotgunners, and this allows the rest of the marines to do some work, like building tf's etc, and no fade is going to attack a elec marine res point with a shotty guarding it. Marines whould have at least 1/1 upgrades by the time a fade appears, I dont know of any fade that can take down, consistantly, 2 or more shotgunners without having to run away to regen, in which time the marines can build / medpak etc. Maybe shotgunners cant "kill fades", but they can sure as hell take them out of a least a small part of the map, and if you dont call that countering all I can say is wth, what game are you playing.

TOOL

omg, how do you expect to keep all your nodes if two shotgunners are running off in the same direction the fade will simply attack where you aren't leaving you with no more then 3 nodes which is a loss....