Uranium, you realise we're not knocking on your door, jumping on you, tying you to a couch and forcing you to hear our opinions on Japanese culture, right?
Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Oct 30 2003, 02:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Oct 30 2003, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Uranium, you realise we're not knocking on your door, jumping on you, tying you to a couch and forcing you to hear our opinions on Japanese culture, right?
Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'.
How about a culture that thought slavery was a neat idea for a long while? Or one that colonised lots of territory because the people there were "savages who would benefit from cultural education"? Oh the beauty of our past sins. Or whatever.
Indeed, sometimes you'll want brute force over finesse, and you don't go wrong with a claymore then. Plus the sheer size of those thingies has a coolness of itself. A particularly gutsy fighter could actually catch an incoming rapier in one hand or have it glance off his arm (of course heavily injuring it in the process), then cut down his opponent. A move of strict desperation of course, but it could be a life-saver in the right circumstances. Now trying to do that against a claymore wouldn't really give you anything but half-a-hand. However, the claymore is not a good sword for duelling. The bulk of the sword means that it is hard to parry with, and if you miss a strike, chances are you won't be able to lift the sword again in time. The claymore is a good sword for battle, as you can easily hew down an opponent with even a relatively inaccurate blow (didn't hit his torso clean? No matter, you chopped his shoulder off. He ain't gonna make much trouble after that). The katana was such a revered weapon because of its flexibility: It was suitable for duelling as well as fighting against several enemies at once because of the combination of light weight and high sharpness. Thus learning to use the sword well prepared you for a large number of situations, not only specifics. And it stands: The japanese art of swordfighting ranks among the most effective in the world.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Oct 30 2003, 04:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Oct 30 2003, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE] Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Calvary Sabres, (at least ones use in Civil War and Post civil war) were also very heavy used to break the collarbone of the person when you whacked him off his horse. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And too lolfighter,
Yup, Im prety sure (many experts have said so as well) 9/10 times an Asian sword fighting disicpline will own a European one.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Oct 30 2003, 05:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Oct 30 2003, 05:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Oct 30 2003, 02:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Oct 30 2003, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to put a seven foot claymore against a samurai sword, there's no way the seven foot could win... too lumberous, too slow. You could use a knife against the claymore if you had good foot speed (because you'd have to dodge, katana and knife alike), grasp of the landscape (, and reactions (although very good ones). This is assuming that the claymore guy isn't wearing chainmail, in which case you'd be screwed... but does it matter? To quote a manga of all things, in the eras in which both swords existed, "you'd probably both get skewered by a guy on horseback with a spear!" But this is all MEANINGLESS...
Tactics, technological values, cultural values. You can't compare like weapons on a level playing field because of these reasons. It's not like we're comparing Von Clausewitz and Sun Tzu here, we're only talking about the extremely narrow topic of swords.
EDIT: crap, you made the heavy collarbone breaking thing about the Civil War calvalry. But, in any event, they also tended to be blunt to ensure that the rider wouldn't cleave into an opponent's body and lose his sword.
Comments
Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'.
Indeed, sometimes you'll want brute force over finesse, and you don't go wrong with a claymore then. Plus the sheer size of those thingies has a coolness of itself. A particularly gutsy fighter could actually catch an incoming rapier in one hand or have it glance off his arm (of course heavily injuring it in the process), then cut down his opponent. A move of strict desperation of course, but it could be a life-saver in the right circumstances. Now trying to do that against a claymore wouldn't really give you anything but half-a-hand.
However, the claymore is not a good sword for duelling. The bulk of the sword means that it is hard to parry with, and if you miss a strike, chances are you won't be able to lift the sword again in time. The claymore is a good sword for battle, as you can easily hew down an opponent with even a relatively inaccurate blow (didn't hit his torso clean? No matter, you chopped his shoulder off. He ain't gonna make much trouble after that).
The katana was such a revered weapon because of its flexibility: It was suitable for duelling as well as fighting against several enemies at once because of the combination of light weight and high sharpness. Thus learning to use the sword well prepared you for a large number of situations, not only specifics.
And it stands: The japanese art of swordfighting ranks among the most effective in the world.
Oh, and for the record: cavalry sabres are moderately cool purely because they're swords, but they're not as cool as katanas. The hilt is different, katanas do not have the full hand-guards, the tip of a sabre is double edged, a sabre blade is longer, and from what I understand katanas are much sharper and made from better quality metal. No, I haven't had the chance to examine a katana up close (If I had a spare $500 I would <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) but I *do* own a sabre.
Actually, I feel like playing with it a bit now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE]
Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Calvary Sabres, (at least ones use in Civil War and Post civil war) were also very heavy used to break the collarbone of the person when you whacked him off his horse. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And too lolfighter,
Yup, Im prety sure (many experts have said so as well) 9/10 times an Asian sword fighting disicpline will own a European one.
Cavalry sabres were only sharp on one edge. They were used for slashing. Now a straight just general sabre has the back 1/3rd sharpened as well.
Katanas were, as I recall, just made from bimetallic strips, hence why they took so much skill to make. Mess it up, it'd bend, throw it out. Frankly, I don't see that as a good reason to like them, because if I wanted to see a sword good for killing, I'd go watch Braveheart. Can't get much better then a 7' claymore.
EDIT: And any culture that encourages you to shove folded frisbees down your throat, or cut your gut open to avoid dishonor... I can't imagine ranking high among my 'role models'. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to put a seven foot claymore against a samurai sword, there's no way the seven foot could win... too lumberous, too slow. You could use a knife against the claymore if you had good foot speed (because you'd have to dodge, katana and knife alike), grasp of the landscape (, and reactions (although very good ones). This is assuming that the claymore guy isn't wearing chainmail, in which case you'd be screwed... but does it matter? To quote a manga of all things, in the eras in which both swords existed, "you'd probably both get skewered by a guy on horseback with a spear!" But this is all MEANINGLESS...
Tactics, technological values, cultural values. You can't compare like weapons on a level playing field because of these reasons. It's not like we're comparing Von Clausewitz and Sun Tzu here, we're only talking about the extremely narrow topic of swords.
EDIT: crap, you made the heavy collarbone breaking thing about the Civil War calvalry. But, in any event, they also tended to be blunt to ensure that the rider wouldn't cleave into an opponent's body and lose his sword.
And that wasn't even way back when in triple digit years. That was in WW2!
'nuff said.