I was com once and had to move to waste ,we had lost sat-com(our main base) the only place we still held was a small out post in waste (a PG, Armory, TF, 10-15 senterys) so i droped the CC right infront of the ladder i chould send all the LA/LMGers to jump off and attack then just respawn back up while i told all the HAs to stay on top after they Phased there, but ono chould not get up the ladder. No matter how many raids the ono's made on that CC they chould never do enuf damge before we welded it. I used all the free space on the upper lvl for 8 IPs and we spwan rushed them intill we held all of waste and west access, we rebuilt a normal base. We lost in the end but only because half of out team left and it was 10 on 5. A other uber spot to build in is the cargo bay in orgin.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Oct 2 2003, 10:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Oct 2 2003, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--slayer111+Oct 2 2003, 12:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slayer111 @ Oct 2 2003, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Throwing the hive up is a good distraction: Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You somehow skipped <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which completely negates cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Except that the situation we're refering to is an emergency relocate to a hive... in which case, there's a decent possibility that, if you act quick, the comm WON'T have built obs yet.
On the pubs at least, many comms only ever build a first obs in the main base, and never again as they extend outwards. And why don't they do this? See above; there is a widening belief it's not needed, because no kharaa team would be 'stupid' enough to use the 'pointless' sensory chambers at less than 3 hives.
<!--QuoteBegin--Eidolan+Oct 3 2003, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eidolan @ Oct 3 2003, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think thats true at all, in MOST games sences is the frist upgrade. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Yeah, you kinda missed the point.
What I'm saying is a lot of marines nowadays seem to have bought this idea that no-one uses sensory because it's useless... Which, as you've noted, just isn't true. Sensory is still used a lot, and is MORE effective BECAUSE the marines believe no-one ever uses it, so they don't prepare.
Not to mention, I've been in at least one game as marines where we faced sensory early, and the comm didn't realise obs would counteract it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Oct 3 2003, 04:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Oct 3 2003, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If Marines are ever doing a strategy like this, this is what you have to do, trust me it works wonders.
1: Find a gorge with about 50+ res.
2: Make a keybind to build an OC.
3: Get everyone ready for a group rush (doesn't have to be everybody, but at least 3-4 ppl here.
4: Have one member of the group go in with the gorge behind him, he distracts their fire while the gorge drops OCs all over their caming point, they don't have to build, just drop them, trust me.
5: Everyone rushes in while the Marines are shooting at the OCs!
Results: Well one of two things happen, either the group rush crushes the marines, or the marines crush the group rush, but have wasted too much time and the OCs have now built themselves, making for an even better oppertunity to attack while they're distracted.
Basically the lesson here is, if marines are holding up in one place and firing at anything that moves, distract their fire! Works like a charm! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> er what if they have a few sieges in the base? Siege takes out the oc, and marines+turrets take out the aliens. :/
1> P.S. on nothing, Just take out the RT by hiding under the RT's hitbox, once marines are starved of res just play it cool and slowly kill them all.
2> The sewer hive on caged doesn't have an RT close by. No res = marine lose
3> Agreed alpha is annoying, esp if they relocate to the platform where the res it :/
4> 1. outside MS, 3Hives?! if you can't break a base with 3 hives then you should stop playing NS
2. 3. 4. Cargo, Holo, reception.. 3 HIVES!!!!
5> Agreed Mineshaft has nasty areas, esp. sewer
6> Ref is so big it is almost imposible to defend. The Res is spread apart so you can't lock down a hive AND res. Engine is better Multi-elevations stop oni, add only one way in or out for large evos... Feed is best i reckon, 2 res within defence area and a hive. also AP is within rushing range.
7> Dres.. 3 HIVES! but all the hives on origin are a **** tobreak.
8> ?? I thought you were talking about unbreakable marine relocs..
9> The vent is actually outside of siege range to waste handling, can just get the RT but not the hive. Also because you are stuck in there aliens will contain you cos you have no res. and cos they for 3 hives they got base breakers such as xeno, primal and AR.
The vent you are talking about the only bit where you can build a base is near acidic solution. you can siege the rt but not cap it. Also it is outside of siege range from both hives.
Chem transport to rr, no res no hives = v painful death.
<!--QuoteBegin--slayer111+Oct 3 2003, 01:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slayer111 @ Oct 3 2003, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Eidolan+Oct 3 2003, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eidolan @ Oct 3 2003, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think thats true at all, in MOST games sences is the frist upgrade. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Yeah, you kinda missed the point.
What I'm saying is a lot of marines nowadays seem to have bought this idea that no-one uses sensory because it's useless... Which, as you've noted, just isn't true. Sensory is still used a lot, and is MORE effective BECAUSE the marines believe no-one ever uses it, so they don't prepare.
Not to mention, I've been in at least one game as marines where we faced sensory early, and the comm didn't realise obs would counteract it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh sorry i thought you where saying aliens did't use it. I agree most coms don't build enuf obs in enuf places. If i can't build obs at all of my outposts(low res or land changes lands too often) i build 2-3 obs at our main base and other large bases(hives dule res) for hot-key scaning power when its needed. People also over look a obs dose NOT decloak buildings only "pings" them. So shoot at the blue orbs people.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cragz+Sep 30 2003, 10:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cragz @ Sep 30 2003, 10:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not to add anything constructive to the post or anything (God forbid!), but surely people saying "turrent" now are either really stupid or dragging out a seriously unfunny joke. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you will die heathen!
so let me get this straight... jps are at the absolute end of the tech tree which require a large amount of time and res to research and purchase... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> The most vile relocation spot I can think of as a last resort is the vent in waste handling (tanith) that heads towards west access corridor. You can get ips and everything in there, I think you can even cc block the other end then gren spam it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Wolv+Sep 30 2003, 07:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wolv @ Sep 30 2003, 07:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me wonders if letting spores damage HA again would solve this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be fair to make it at least 1hp per cycle
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+Sep 29 2003, 11:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Sep 29 2003, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Morrik+Sep 30 2003, 09:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Morrik @ Sep 30 2003, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've never had a problem trying to take out a small Marine Outpost Base in the Waste Handling Hive. As long as the Alien team WORKS TOGETHER, they can take out the base. Just have a few Fade blink up to the base to distract anybody up there (usually suicide) and then work the Onos up the ladder while the Marines are struggling to take out the Fades. Have a few Lerks firing some spikes up in the base to distract the Heavies even more while one or two Gorges just bile bomb...
Tada! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "small marine outpost", k, but they had relocated. Plus, in pubs, this means marines will ALWAYS win if they relocate to waste, you can shout as much as you want about teamwork, it's not going to happen like it would in clan play except in a select few servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> An update on this "complaint" about Tanith.
Honestly, a HUGE BASE is not that hard to take out at Waste Handling. I was playing a game last night as Aliens and under the same circumstances as the original poster of this threading. The Marine team had successfully held their base and Waste Handling for about 20 minutes and they already had level 3 weapons and upgraded weapons (HMG's, Grenades and whatnot). They had about 30 turrets in the Waste Handling Hive and we controlled 8 out of the 10 resources nozzles on the map. They started to get everybody equipped with weapons and we had two REDEEMING Onii that did nothing to Waste Handling Hive due to the fact that all the turrets would be firing at him and then the Onos would Redeem without doing ANY damage (yes, ZERO damage). There were probably about 3 or 4 veterans or "know-it-all" players on the Alien team and the others were just waiting outside the Marine base waiting to eat them... for whatever reason since they were all staying in base and just phasing over the Waste Handling. Mind you, the Marine team did NOT have Heavy Armor YET. We realized that if they did get Heavy Armor, we would pretty much be screwed. Myself and another player along with another player shortly thereafter, went Lerk and we just spored the hell out of the Waste Handling Hive. This eliminated any Marine threat whatsoever because they were starting to get Heavy Armor. The only problem for the Marine Team was that we had already successfully taken out the Waste Handling Base with 30 (yes, 30) turrets due to some of the more informed players going Onos with REGENERATION instead of REDEMPTION! The Onos with regeneration took out the Turret Factor with so much easy due to the fact the other three Lerks were Umbra'in the area like heck so that the Onos wouldn't die. The plan worked like a charm.
<b>The Waste Handling Hive is not hard to take out EVEN IF THERE IS TEAMWORK...</b>
I pity the person on an Alien team that can't take out a Waste Handling Base due to non-teamwork... sigh...
<!--QuoteBegin--Jummeh+Oct 3 2003, 03:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jummeh @ Oct 3 2003, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In reply to Red Rebel...
1> P.S. on nothing, Just take out the RT by hiding under the RT's hitbox, once marines are starved of res just play it cool and slowly kill them all.
2> The sewer hive on caged doesn't have an RT close by. No res = marine lose
3> Agreed alpha is annoying, esp if they relocate to the platform where the res it :/
4> 1. outside MS, 3Hives?! if you can't break a base with 3 hives then you should stop playing NS
2. 3. 4. Cargo, Holo, reception.. 3 HIVES!!!!
5> Agreed Mineshaft has nasty areas, esp. sewer
6> Ref is so big it is almost imposible to defend. The Res is spread apart so you can't lock down a hive AND res. Engine is better Multi-elevations stop oni, add only one way in or out for large evos... Feed is best i reckon, 2 res within defence area and a hive. also AP is within rushing range.
7> Dres.. 3 HIVES! but all the hives on origin are a **** tobreak.
8> ?? I thought you were talking about unbreakable marine relocs..
9> The vent is actually outside of siege range to waste handling, can just get the RT but not the hive. Also because you are stuck in there aliens will contain you cos you have no res. and cos they for 3 hives they got base breakers such as xeno, primal and AR.
The vent you are talking about the only bit where you can build a base is near acidic solution. you can siege the rt but not cap it. Also it is outside of siege range from both hives.
Chem transport to rr, no res no hives = v painful death.
Regards, Jim <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) on nothing we're dealing with a Viaduct hive relocation correct? Kinda hard to hide under the "Hitbox" of an RT when your level with the marines and their turrets. It would take a great ammount of skill for a skulk to get there alive, and then the turrets and 1 marine could cut you to pieces. You cant Hide behind that RT when the Marine can just run out and hit you from the side. Fades would have better luck, but I'd hope the commander would have given him a HMG/GL to defend the place.
2) on Caged it was just a last stand. They had no res after a bit but it was still a PAIN to kill them and took a few hours. Just cause marines have no res doesnt mean they're push overs.
Oh and until we oc'd up all around our RTs (they had a siege up in that little nook keeping ocs and the 3rd hive down) they had sent JPs to rush out of the base and scatter. Like 5 of em. They whent to places like Shipping, Upper Sewer, Marine Start, Stability, and Aux Gen. Since the Aliens used movements to get to Ventilation and then ran out to the LEFT through the welded open doorways from a failed Hive rush they didnt find those RTs till the Marines tried to plant one in Purification. You might be surprised how unobservant most NS Players are when they are trying to kill marines in a last stand situation. I know I pay attention to stuff like that and generally I know that they are building a PG by a Hive before anyone else does because I dont just try to get kills all the time, until I got my Mic people just didnt listen and a few games were lost because of this. In this game I was spamming that the Marines had 5 RTs cause I saw that little "2v7" or whatever that shows up when an RT is placed/built but since I typed it no one payed attention.
The Marines did lost but they had 5 RTs for like 20 minutes before the Aliens caught on. And they only did when 1 Onos whent through Upper Sewers or when the Marines tried to get purification...cant remember. Anyways they had HA by then and the Aliens nearly lost a 2nd hive.
3)When we had this problem they relocated to ALL 3 platforms in Alpha. They had like an IP on each one and a farm on each one and it was jut BRUTAL.
4)Okay, I didnt say Reception. I said "Hera looking a bit drab?" or something like that. The 3rd place you can relocate to is outside Archiving in Siege range of Holo. Its easy for the Marines to lock that hive and get 3-4 RTs for a nasty little fight. Plus Aliens dont LOOK for the base there usually so your safe for a while.
Holo. If you cant lock down Archiving your a. dumb or b. against a vastily superior team. You should be able to lock down Archive a bit with out too much trouble.
Cargo. yes 3 hives. And your pretty close to 2 of em. If you set cargo up right you can deal with 3 hives easy. Xenocide and Acid Rockets wont do much when they cant get in alive. Its mroe difficult than the other 2 but if you got a good comm then you can do it. On the game we played when marines relocated here the commander did it from the start. Sent us all to Cargo instead of Holo/Hera. We took cargo and made it a base then whent and locked vent hive. we had 2-3 RTs and the aliens had 2 hives and a very diffrent place to need attacking. With the upper door somewhat blocked by turrets and 1 marine (me cause i tend to suck a bit) nothing got in that way. Then the other door took a bit to open but fades could be annoying, so since it was big the comm but a TF in the corner by it and placed 10 turrets down there. It was a good game we almost won but our team couldnt deal with 4 Onos and neither could our locked down hives. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
5) Yea Mineshaft is sick. Sewers isnt that bad IMO if you got a lerk and an onos. Atleast until they get guys down there with shotgun/hmgs. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
6)You dont need to cover the whole place like with say Engine or Feed. Instead build in that upper room and on the catwalk. You'll ALWAYS have 1 RT cause its right below you inthat vent which you should be gaurding the other end to, and then there are 2 more res nodes that are easy to get to even during a last stand. Not to mention you got Engine in the same distance you got Atmos with Feed. Sure there are 2 ways in and out but they'll be shot the WHOLE time by turrets and 1 or 2 marines that are either gaurding or that just respawned and there is NO way an Onos should get up there unless you are completley inept. They'd have to go up a Ladder. THEN crouch to get inside the one room if they destroyed the farm you should have. Only 1 problem with this relocation is that crafty skulks go gorge up above on those 2 or 3 beams adn can bile bomb you. Well until they lose engine (which happend to me bilebombing the heck out of their farm and then engine goes down!). But by then you could have jps. many of these "nasty" relocations that exsist on these maps require JPs or human ladders.
7) No 2 Hives on Dres possible 1. Dres is RIGHT above Vent hive. The ONLY main way in is through Dres. If you cant take Vent hive with that kidn of an advantage then im flabbergasted. Ive never seen marines NOT take vent hive that way. Not to mention Furnace is right there, and so is Biodome but Furnace is easier to get rid of. Again though you need a decent comm to pull it off and a decent team. Cant just expect it to work you gotta earn it.
Oh and to take from the marines, All the hives are easy to take except for Ventilation hive. Furnace most of the time can be "locked down" and still have a hive. WAY too many commanders build the farm in furnace by the RT. Well you got a nice wall blocking for your hive, plus a well placed sensory (and by well placed I mean anywhere in Furnace) can allow you to have the Hive up and no one be the wiser so when you get that 3rd hive up you walk up the to the stuff in furnace and kill it. Rather have the Marines have 2 RTs and think they have a Hive lock down than just let them try to take furnace since its so annoying to defend.
8) which place are you talking about here?!? I cant see my own post on the reply so I have no idea.
9) Okay. West Access is RIGHT there. not to mention waste hive. You can Lock waste down like Normal but have your base relocated to that vent and make it impossbile for anything to get in thanks to turrets. You'll hvae to recycle one or 2 if you lose waste and its PG but you should have at least 1 RT.
You dont siege the hives (and im pretty sure satcomm is in range but I know fusion isnt) you can rush them. You'll have Satcomm locked and be able to easily take out fusion. Nothing more disturbing than thinkin that the marines are in satcomm then to rush to the vent there, die from a HA thats coming your way in the vent with a HMG thanks to a 40 minutes stalemate with the marines keeping 1-3 RTs depending on aliens killing them and them rebuilding, and then when you spawn you see 6 drop out of the Vent right by fusion and then just kill everything and lock a 2nd hive. It DOES work but like most of these locations I've put you have to have a decent comm. The Team-Fun server that i play on is blessed with several able commanders so its pretty cool.
This is another one of those cases where you can lock down the hive, say satcomm, like normal and then you end up relocating to that vent. What was funny about this game was we tried as aliens to take satcomm, but it was WELL defended. So we decided to make em use a few hundred res to relocate and we killed their less defended marine start. They didnt relocate to Satcomm. They whent into those vents and since we *had* RR the whole time they got siege down there or something I cant remember and took RR. They whent from 2 RTs to 5 thanks to our eagerness to kill their start. How fun.
Anyways like I keep saying most of these Ive seen work if you just get a comm that knows what he is doing and how to do it. Just takes a bit of skill or lack there of on the Alien team.
Actually, if marines relocate to holoroom they generally overlook aliens going to archiving and simply assume it is safe. Even when you run past to get to Archiving, they generally ignore the turret fire because they are used to it. If you have the res, you can rush past as a skulk and put up the hive + OC's.
<!--QuoteBegin--rm2kacer+Oct 5 2003, 02:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rm2kacer @ Oct 5 2003, 02:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Am I the only one who noticed that he said they HAs made their way to eclipse when there is no eclipse hive in tanith? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, someone already pointed that out (on page 1 or 2), but there was so much other stuff to say that we just ignored it and assumed he meant somewhere that is actually part of the map, especially since everything else fits that map perfectly.
Comments
Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You somehow skipped
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which completely negates cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except that the situation we're refering to is an emergency relocate to a hive... in which case, there's a decent possibility that, if you act quick, the comm WON'T have built obs yet.
On the pubs at least, many comms only ever build a first obs in the main base, and never again as they extend outwards. And why don't they do this? See above; there is a widening belief it's not needed, because no kharaa team would be 'stupid' enough to use the 'pointless' sensory chambers at less than 3 hives.
... Yeah, you kinda missed the point.
What I'm saying is a lot of marines nowadays seem to have bought this idea that no-one uses sensory because it's useless... Which, as you've noted, just isn't true. Sensory is still used a lot, and is MORE effective BECAUSE the marines believe no-one ever uses it, so they don't prepare.
Not to mention, I've been in at least one game as marines where we faced sensory early, and the comm didn't realise obs would counteract it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
1: Find a gorge with about 50+ res.
2: Make a keybind to build an OC.
3: Get everyone ready for a group rush (doesn't have to be everybody, but at least 3-4 ppl here.
4: Have one member of the group go in with the gorge behind him, he distracts their fire while the gorge drops OCs all over their caming point, they don't have to build, just drop them, trust me.
5: Everyone rushes in while the Marines are shooting at the OCs!
Results: Well one of two things happen, either the group rush crushes the marines, or the marines crush the group rush, but have wasted too much time and the OCs have now built themselves, making for an even better oppertunity to attack while they're distracted.
Basically the lesson here is, if marines are holding up in one place and firing at anything that moves, distract their fire! Works like a charm! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
er what if they have a few sieges in the base? Siege takes out the oc, and marines+turrets take out the aliens. :/
1> P.S. on nothing, Just take out the RT by hiding under the RT's hitbox, once marines are starved of res just play it cool and slowly kill them all.
2> The sewer hive on caged doesn't have an RT close by. No res = marine lose
3> Agreed alpha is annoying, esp if they relocate to the platform where the res it :/
4> 1. outside MS, 3Hives?! if you can't break a base with 3 hives then you should stop playing NS
2. 3. 4. Cargo, Holo, reception.. 3 HIVES!!!!
5> Agreed Mineshaft has nasty areas, esp. sewer
6> Ref is so big it is almost imposible to defend. The Res is spread apart so you can't lock down a hive AND res.
Engine is better Multi-elevations stop oni, add only one way in or out for large evos...
Feed is best i reckon, 2 res within defence area and a hive. also AP is within rushing range.
7> Dres.. 3 HIVES!
but all the hives on origin are a **** tobreak.
8> ?? I thought you were talking about unbreakable marine relocs..
9> The vent is actually outside of siege range to waste handling, can just get the RT but not the hive. Also because you are stuck in there aliens will contain you cos you have no res. and cos they for 3 hives they got base breakers such as xeno, primal and AR.
The vent you are talking about the only bit where you can build a base is near acidic solution. you can siege the rt but not cap it. Also it is outside of siege range from both hives.
Chem transport to rr, no res no hives = v painful death.
Regards,
Jim
... Yeah, you kinda missed the point.
What I'm saying is a lot of marines nowadays seem to have bought this idea that no-one uses sensory because it's useless... Which, as you've noted, just isn't true. Sensory is still used a lot, and is MORE effective BECAUSE the marines believe no-one ever uses it, so they don't prepare.
Not to mention, I've been in at least one game as marines where we faced sensory early, and the comm didn't realise obs would counteract it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh sorry i thought you where saying aliens did't use it. I agree most coms don't build enuf obs in enuf places. If i can't build obs at all of my outposts(low res or land changes lands too often) i build 2-3 obs at our main base and other large bases(hives dule res) for hot-key scaning power when its needed. People also over look a obs dose NOT decloak buildings only "pings" them. So shoot at the blue orbs people.
you will die heathen!
The most vile relocation spot I can think of as a last resort is the vent in waste handling (tanith) that heads towards west access corridor. You can get ips and everything in there, I think you can even cc block the other end then gren spam it.
It would be fair to make it at least 1hp per cycle
Tada! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"small marine outpost", k, but they had relocated.
Plus, in pubs, this means marines will ALWAYS win if they relocate to waste, you can shout as much as you want about teamwork, it's not going to happen like it would in clan play except in a select few servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
An update on this "complaint" about Tanith.
Honestly, a HUGE BASE is not that hard to take out at Waste Handling. I was playing a game last night as Aliens and under the same circumstances as the original poster of this threading. The Marine team had successfully held their base and Waste Handling for about 20 minutes and they already had level 3 weapons and upgraded weapons (HMG's, Grenades and whatnot). They had about 30 turrets in the Waste Handling Hive and we controlled 8 out of the 10 resources nozzles on the map. They started to get everybody equipped with weapons and we had two REDEEMING Onii that did nothing to Waste Handling Hive due to the fact that all the turrets would be firing at him and then the Onos would Redeem without doing ANY damage (yes, ZERO damage). There were probably about 3 or 4 veterans or "know-it-all" players on the Alien team and the others were just waiting outside the Marine base waiting to eat them... for whatever reason since they were all staying in base and just phasing over the Waste Handling. Mind you, the Marine team did NOT have Heavy Armor YET. We realized that if they did get Heavy Armor, we would pretty much be screwed. Myself and another player along with another player shortly thereafter, went Lerk and we just spored the hell out of the Waste Handling Hive. This eliminated any Marine threat whatsoever because they were starting to get Heavy Armor. The only problem for the Marine Team was that we had already successfully taken out the Waste Handling Base with 30 (yes, 30) turrets due to some of the more informed players going Onos with REGENERATION instead of REDEMPTION! The Onos with regeneration took out the Turret Factor with so much easy due to the fact the other three Lerks were Umbra'in the area like heck so that the Onos wouldn't die. The plan worked like a charm.
<b>The Waste Handling Hive is not hard to take out EVEN IF THERE IS TEAMWORK...</b>
I pity the person on an Alien team that can't take out a Waste Handling Base due to non-teamwork... sigh...
1> P.S. on nothing, Just take out the RT by hiding under the RT's hitbox, once marines are starved of res just play it cool and slowly kill them all.
2> The sewer hive on caged doesn't have an RT close by. No res = marine lose
3> Agreed alpha is annoying, esp if they relocate to the platform where the res it :/
4> 1. outside MS, 3Hives?! if you can't break a base with 3 hives then you should stop playing NS
2. 3. 4. Cargo, Holo, reception.. 3 HIVES!!!!
5> Agreed Mineshaft has nasty areas, esp. sewer
6> Ref is so big it is almost imposible to defend. The Res is spread apart so you can't lock down a hive AND res.
Engine is better Multi-elevations stop oni, add only one way in or out for large evos...
Feed is best i reckon, 2 res within defence area and a hive. also AP is within rushing range.
7> Dres.. 3 HIVES!
but all the hives on origin are a **** tobreak.
8> ?? I thought you were talking about unbreakable marine relocs..
9> The vent is actually outside of siege range to waste handling, can just get the RT but not the hive. Also because you are stuck in there aliens will contain you cos you have no res. and cos they for 3 hives they got base breakers such as xeno, primal and AR.
The vent you are talking about the only bit where you can build a base is near acidic solution. you can siege the rt but not cap it. Also it is outside of siege range from both hives.
Chem transport to rr, no res no hives = v painful death.
Regards,
Jim <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) on nothing we're dealing with a Viaduct hive relocation correct? Kinda hard to hide under the "Hitbox" of an RT when your level with the marines and their turrets. It would take a great ammount of skill for a skulk to get there alive, and then the turrets and 1 marine could cut you to pieces. You cant Hide behind that RT when the Marine can just run out and hit you from the side.
Fades would have better luck, but I'd hope the commander would have given him a HMG/GL to defend the place.
2) on Caged it was just a last stand. They had no res after a bit but it was still a PAIN to kill them and took a few hours. Just cause marines have no res doesnt mean they're push overs.
Oh and until we oc'd up all around our RTs (they had a siege up in that little nook keeping ocs and the 3rd hive down) they had sent JPs to rush out of the base and scatter. Like 5 of em. They whent to places like Shipping, Upper Sewer, Marine Start, Stability, and Aux Gen. Since the Aliens used movements to get to Ventilation and then ran out to the LEFT through the welded open doorways from a failed Hive rush they didnt find those RTs till the Marines tried to plant one in Purification. You might be surprised how unobservant most NS Players are when they are trying to kill marines in a last stand situation. I know I pay attention to stuff like that and generally I know that they are building a PG by a Hive before anyone else does because I dont just try to get kills all the time, until I got my Mic people just didnt listen and a few games were lost because of this. In this game I was spamming that the Marines had 5 RTs cause I saw that little "2v7" or whatever that shows up when an RT is placed/built but since I typed it no one payed attention.
The Marines did lost but they had 5 RTs for like 20 minutes before the Aliens caught on. And they only did when 1 Onos whent through Upper Sewers or when the Marines tried to get purification...cant remember. Anyways they had HA by then and the Aliens nearly lost a 2nd hive.
3)When we had this problem they relocated to ALL 3 platforms in Alpha. They had like an IP on each one and a farm on each one and it was jut BRUTAL.
4)Okay, I didnt say Reception. I said "Hera looking a bit drab?" or something like that. The 3rd place you can relocate to is outside Archiving in Siege range of Holo. Its easy for the Marines to lock that hive and get 3-4 RTs for a nasty little fight. Plus Aliens dont LOOK for the base there usually so your safe for a while.
Holo. If you cant lock down Archiving your a. dumb or b. against a vastily superior team. You should be able to lock down Archive a bit with out too much trouble.
Cargo. yes 3 hives. And your pretty close to 2 of em. If you set cargo up right you can deal with 3 hives easy. Xenocide and Acid Rockets wont do much when they cant get in alive. Its mroe difficult than the other 2 but if you got a good comm then you can do it. On the game we played when marines relocated here the commander did it from the start. Sent us all to Cargo instead of Holo/Hera. We took cargo and made it a base then whent and locked vent hive. we had 2-3 RTs and the aliens had 2 hives and a very diffrent place to need attacking. With the upper door somewhat blocked by turrets and 1 marine (me cause i tend to suck a bit) nothing got in that way. Then the other door took a bit to open but fades could be annoying, so since it was big the comm but a TF in the corner by it and placed 10 turrets down there. It was a good game we almost won but our team couldnt deal with 4 Onos and neither could our locked down hives. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
5) Yea Mineshaft is sick. Sewers isnt that bad IMO if you got a lerk and an onos. Atleast until they get guys down there with shotgun/hmgs. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
6)You dont need to cover the whole place like with say Engine or Feed. Instead build in that upper room and on the catwalk. You'll ALWAYS have 1 RT cause its right below you inthat vent which you should be gaurding the other end to, and then there are 2 more res nodes that are easy to get to even during a last stand. Not to mention you got Engine in the same distance you got Atmos with Feed. Sure there are 2 ways in and out but they'll be shot the WHOLE time by turrets and 1 or 2 marines that are either gaurding or that just respawned and there is NO way an Onos should get up there unless you are completley inept. They'd have to go up a Ladder. THEN crouch to get inside the one room if they destroyed the farm you should have.
Only 1 problem with this relocation is that crafty skulks go gorge up above on those 2 or 3 beams adn can bile bomb you. Well until they lose engine (which happend to me bilebombing the heck out of their farm and then engine goes down!). But by then you could have jps. many of these "nasty" relocations that exsist on these maps require JPs or human ladders.
7) No 2 Hives on Dres possible 1. Dres is RIGHT above Vent hive. The ONLY main way in is through Dres. If you cant take Vent hive with that kidn of an advantage then im flabbergasted. Ive never seen marines NOT take vent hive that way. Not to mention Furnace is right there, and so is Biodome but Furnace is easier to get rid of. Again though you need a decent comm to pull it off and a decent team. Cant just expect it to work you gotta earn it.
Oh and to take from the marines, All the hives are easy to take except for Ventilation hive. Furnace most of the time can be "locked down" and still have a hive. WAY too many commanders build the farm in furnace by the RT. Well you got a nice wall blocking for your hive, plus a well placed sensory (and by well placed I mean anywhere in Furnace) can allow you to have the Hive up and no one be the wiser so when you get that 3rd hive up you walk up the to the stuff in furnace and kill it. Rather have the Marines have 2 RTs and think they have a Hive lock down than just let them try to take furnace since its so annoying to defend.
8) which place are you talking about here?!? I cant see my own post on the reply so I have no idea.
9) Okay. West Access is RIGHT there. not to mention waste hive. You can Lock waste down like Normal but have your base relocated to that vent and make it impossbile for anything to get in thanks to turrets. You'll hvae to recycle one or 2 if you lose waste and its PG but you should have at least 1 RT.
You dont siege the hives (and im pretty sure satcomm is in range but I know fusion isnt) you can rush them. You'll have Satcomm locked and be able to easily take out fusion. Nothing more disturbing than thinkin that the marines are in satcomm then to rush to the vent there, die from a HA thats coming your way in the vent with a HMG thanks to a 40 minutes stalemate with the marines keeping 1-3 RTs depending on aliens killing them and them rebuilding, and then when you spawn you see 6 drop out of the Vent right by fusion and then just kill everything and lock a 2nd hive. It DOES work but like most of these locations I've put you have to have a decent comm. The Team-Fun server that i play on is blessed with several able commanders so its pretty cool.
This is another one of those cases where you can lock down the hive, say satcomm, like normal and then you end up relocating to that vent. What was funny about this game was we tried as aliens to take satcomm, but it was WELL defended. So we decided to make em use a few hundred res to relocate and we killed their less defended marine start. They didnt relocate to Satcomm. They whent into those vents and since we *had* RR the whole time they got siege down there or something I cant remember and took RR. They whent from 2 RTs to 5 thanks to our eagerness to kill their start. How fun.
Anyways like I keep saying most of these Ive seen work if you just get a comm that knows what he is doing and how to do it. Just takes a bit of skill or lack there of on the Alien team.
-Red
You lost from a lack of teamwork, not because of a poor map design.
No, someone already pointed that out (on page 1 or 2), but there was so much other stuff to say that we just ignored it and assumed he meant somewhere that is actually part of the map, especially since everything else fits that map perfectly.