Tanith Happenings That Shouldn't Happen
DeepShadows
Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13408Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13408Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">mumble grumble...</div> Alright, here's the getup: TANITH. Everyone knows it yes? Well then, I'm playing on the alien team, and we get two hives, basically all the res, and destroy the marine base.
Of course, they relocate to the only other place they still have:
WASTE HANDLING
Fine, alright... they weld shut the vents, set up a base and all that. They have level 3 weapons mind you.
So, we plow in and out and in trying to kill them. They just camp around and kill us as we attempt to. They get one guy with a heavyarmor and hmg up by the res, and just mow anyone down.
Eventually we do take all the "lower side" stuff, and they move everything up onto the res platform.
Now, because of this, and all the stuff on the roof in the room, it's practically impossible for anything but a skulk or maybe a fade to get up there. However, for the most part no alien can get there.
Any onos that try are killed before they can so much as cross the room. All the exits have low head roofs, so you have to duck to get out, which gets you basically stuck for them to kill.
They hold this position, with only one res, until every one of them has HA and a big gun. Then, they proceed to push a HA train into the west access corridor, cleaning out all defenses and planting a res.
One or two freaking HA's remained behind to guard. One stood ontop of an armory, right in the middle of the platform. They owned anything that came in.
Eventually the marines went through the back of eclipse and took our hive.
And so on, so forth:
END GAME - MARINE VICTORY
Now honestly, I don't find much of a balance issue in this. There is some. Basically, Marines in small spaces can own anything the aliens can throw at them. Usually though, this falls appart when marines spread out to take new territory.
MY problem is that corner in waste. Maps are designed that any advantage point has a weak edge somewhere. An open end. If they don't have one, then they do not a res. If they do, then they are in the tight spot without access to the "open" area, such as in mineshaft. The double res is a small location, but it is surrounded by huge blocking platforms and many wide entrance directions.
However, the platform on Tanith in WASTE is assentially flawless for marine relocation. It is in corner on high ground of a wide, open room. The roof is littered with obsticles for skulks to get in from. The vents, where creatures could do attack withdraws from are weldable to close. To top it off, all the entrances are low-roofed and spaced far, far away from the platform, giving plenty of gunning distance in the larger WASTE room.
This is evil. This is horrid. There should not be such a doomness. No other map has any such evilness.
I demand currency to make up for the emotional damage this has caused me.
...and a cookie.
Of course, they relocate to the only other place they still have:
WASTE HANDLING
Fine, alright... they weld shut the vents, set up a base and all that. They have level 3 weapons mind you.
So, we plow in and out and in trying to kill them. They just camp around and kill us as we attempt to. They get one guy with a heavyarmor and hmg up by the res, and just mow anyone down.
Eventually we do take all the "lower side" stuff, and they move everything up onto the res platform.
Now, because of this, and all the stuff on the roof in the room, it's practically impossible for anything but a skulk or maybe a fade to get up there. However, for the most part no alien can get there.
Any onos that try are killed before they can so much as cross the room. All the exits have low head roofs, so you have to duck to get out, which gets you basically stuck for them to kill.
They hold this position, with only one res, until every one of them has HA and a big gun. Then, they proceed to push a HA train into the west access corridor, cleaning out all defenses and planting a res.
One or two freaking HA's remained behind to guard. One stood ontop of an armory, right in the middle of the platform. They owned anything that came in.
Eventually the marines went through the back of eclipse and took our hive.
And so on, so forth:
END GAME - MARINE VICTORY
Now honestly, I don't find much of a balance issue in this. There is some. Basically, Marines in small spaces can own anything the aliens can throw at them. Usually though, this falls appart when marines spread out to take new territory.
MY problem is that corner in waste. Maps are designed that any advantage point has a weak edge somewhere. An open end. If they don't have one, then they do not a res. If they do, then they are in the tight spot without access to the "open" area, such as in mineshaft. The double res is a small location, but it is surrounded by huge blocking platforms and many wide entrance directions.
However, the platform on Tanith in WASTE is assentially flawless for marine relocation. It is in corner on high ground of a wide, open room. The roof is littered with obsticles for skulks to get in from. The vents, where creatures could do attack withdraws from are weldable to close. To top it off, all the entrances are low-roofed and spaced far, far away from the platform, giving plenty of gunning distance in the larger WASTE room.
This is evil. This is horrid. There should not be such a doomness. No other map has any such evilness.
I demand currency to make up for the emotional damage this has caused me.
...and a cookie.
Comments
I do agree though. There are several hives in maps where 'rines can relocate to and hold indefinitly until they tech up enough to crush their 2 hive attackers. Its veeery annoying, but its also a hard problem to fix. Its literally giving one team to camp ON the tech tree of another. It makes for great gameplay ordinarily, but as soon as one team needs the tech the other team is camping in order to defeat them... well that really sucks <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im not sure how you'd get around it without affecting other areas of the game though. The best idea i've thought of so far is adding a fourth hive at the rine start location (with aliens being able to pick and 3 of the 4 locations), but that would screw with non-hive relocations (ie: double res). Otherwise it'd be perfect though. Yeh, just that one minor thing.... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ah well. I guess F4 is there for a reason after all. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS: Enjoy teh cookie!
Much of NS is dealing with experiences and learning to take them into consideration next time, and learning how to prevent specific situations from occurring.
lmfao...
Tada!
Tada! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
"small marine outpost", k, but they had relocated.
Plus, in pubs, this means marines will ALWAYS win if they relocate to waste, you can shout as much as you want about teamwork, it's not going to happen like it would in clan play except in a select few servers.
Not flaming, just wondering if anyone tried it.
The thing is, situations like this forces marines to work as almost the perfect team. If the aliens are disorganised then by fairness they should not be able to break them. Albeit the elevation does indead help alot but imho tanith's waste hive is easy compared to so many hives in the newer maps.
I'm gonna say this also, use the search function because about 5 of these topics start up everyday.
The base that was difficult to break was marines built their base in the vent near waste, because they welded the vent shut there was only one way in (and out) in the end it was a mass xeno rush. hehe
I guess that the rines weren't that good, but basically we were able to push back they first expansion when they
all went HA/hmg/GL. Basically we distracted they with a wol and a good fade, while attacking with oni and umbraing lerk.
Those rines that respawned were weakened by spores of another lerk lurking near the base .
Basically we managed to drain their res so they couldn't all go HAs again and spored them to death, while fades repetively attacked the TFs.
Took a long while though and i guess against good Rines we probablly would havee lost during the initial push.
Build outposts outside of waste as well so fades can heal fast.
However, I do find it silly that alien hives are more marine friendly than alien friendly.
Most MS is so anti-marine its un-believeable. res node so far away from cc that its almost undefendable, many vents leading to it. Whereas hives have multiple elevations (sewer, furnace, waste), sometimes large open spaces (ref, satcom, waste) which is bad for onos. Oh the irony
1. If you let the Marines get HA and Max upgrades, you're not playing right.
2. If they don't have HA and full upgrades, that base will go down in no time at all if you use some teamwork.
3. You can't possibly lose no matter what, unless you play like crap. The moment they move out you either kill them all or crush their hive, or both.And that is assuming you can't take down their base without them moving out.
4. Tell your damn skulks to stop suiciding. They are feeding Marines res. Stupid aliens is what let Marines get away with this.
I was *forced* to Relocate to Waste in a game recently. Had the whole team in HA with big guns. Got into waste, took it down, got the CC, and IP and armory up and capped the node. Was just thinking "This is gonna be a long game" when the hive starts going up, the whole alien team teleports in with 3-4 cows, umbra, bilebombs and fades everywhere. Base down in 30 seconds.
With even a single marine shooting at it, it should have gone down long before it was completed...
Well I guess that kinda makes hives the 40-res phase gate then... Plop one down as the rest of the team stands by the MCs... Would take some serious co-ordination to pull off so I guess the aliens should be rewarded for their efforts...
But I don't know if I really like the idea of a gorge standing around the nearest corner undetected, plopping down down the hive and therefore having an instant access to backup... It's just too... INSTANT...
Even phase gates and IPs take frickin ages to build...
A freshly built hive will stay alive for atleast half a minute, and doesn't require the builder to stay alive in order to keep the teleport window open... A gorge could do a suicide run in to build it and boom insta-kharaa army in the middle of the hive room...
Problemed solved!
Make it less powerful and make Hive 3 Meta alot stronger!
and use redemp onos...
(i do mean use redemp onos when they get stuck wiht 1 hive or prepare to loose onos once and a while till there are only a few left.. not that no1 dies with redemp but it surely helps..)
And oh do dc nar the enemy hive.. and have the onos make sneak attacks over and over hitting a turret perhaps 3 times.. all to decimate them slowly... 1 rt .. thats not alot of res to build and have gls. hmg ha..
engine hive, waste, various doors in veil and so on. If these "bugs" are removed I don't think adding a 4th hive is needed.
B. attack with pure skulrush and fade rush.
C. while useless skulks keep anything busy let lerks spike keypoints such as a tf or IP.
D. let them have redemp or heal depending on the situation.
E. keep pushing and enjoy victory.