<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like someone said earlier, there isn't a formal way of conceding in NS. I think I would feel better if there was a vote_forfeit command or something that pops up for people to choose. Then it can display a message that the marines retreated/abandoned the station/ship or that the Kharaa jumped out of the airlock. heh.. I don't know. Something formal instead of "F4". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 is formally conceding. Don't think that the attacking team is making a viable attempt at finishing the game(marines tech up to HA 3/3 upgrades to sit outside the hive and kill anyone that tries to get out)? F4. Don't feel like waiting for the aliens to finally find your teammate that is hiding in a vent somewhere? F4.
I agree that people that f4 at the first sign of adversity are lame, but that does not mean that the losing side is your plaything either. Additionally, people that complain about it not being sporting to F4 are overlooking that dragging out the end game needlessly isn't the paragon of sportsmanship either.
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Sep 26 2003, 03:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Sep 26 2003, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, that's a horrible point. This is a game of competition, not consentual enjoyment! The two have nothing in common. Aside from bunny hopping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ofcourse Natural Selection is a game of consentual enjoyment. It is meant to be fun for both sides, and you most certainly are giving consent each time you join a server. If you don't want to play, then don't join the server.
If you do want to play, you must take your partner's needs into account as well. Throwing him off you seconds before he is about to finish is a cruel and heartless thing to do. Ok sure you have the right to enjoy yourself too, and nobody is expecting you to simply "lie back and think of England", but if you enjoyed 75% of what you two have just been doing, then doesn't he atleast deserve some reward, some satisfaction for his efforts?
If you don't enjoy it, and don't want to put up with it, then remember to be assertive and decisive. When it stops being fun, you stop it right then and there. Don't let it drag on for 10 minutes telling him that you really are enjoying it when you are not, because when you finally do end it he wont understand why. If you are with a partner that doesn't know of your particular habits, then it may pay to warn him before you start that you intended to let him go as far as he pleases, but you wont let him have his climax. Maybe some of your partners will enjoy this little game of yours, however I believe many would be prefer to be forewand so they can make an informed decision on whether or not they really want to go to that place with you after all...
anywaaay... ~blink~ The fact that you can't talk to the living when you're dead doesn't really help 'communication' very well though in some cases it's pretty obvious that the winning team is being nasty. I don't think the case is arguing about f4 in obviously sadistic situations, it's f4 when the two teams are still blatting each other, regardless of tech levels.
If all you've got left is your spawn and they sit there killing people at leisure as they appear it's f4 time. If you've got more than just your spawn and the enemy is intent on killing your spawn you should be biting the beggars XD
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it's helpful to compare NS to sex. Finishing a round of ns is like finishing up with your lady.
How would you feel if moments before the big climax, she pushes you off, and goes to sleep, telling you that you can try again tomorrow?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean that's not normal??? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I find it's a time/place thing.. But I refuse to play on f4 disabled servers because I like using f4 for what it was intended, a way to go AFk without hurting the game...
There have been excellent arguements on both sides, so those who like f4 play on F4 enabled servers.. Those who don't? Play on F4 disabled servers..
The games are an average of 45 minutes as it is, why do people insist and having the uneccessary long and boring end game?
Everybody knows you've won, how many people really say "Gee I've never seen an end game I really want to kill the hive and watch every alien die, or eat the ips and kill every marine.". It's just tacking on an extra 20 minutes that could be going towards a new round, some of us don't have hours upon hours to game, so time becomes an issue.
I was actually banned from a server with the anti-F4 plugin for causing the marines to lose by retrying when it was 12 vs 8. The funny thing is I was so lagged out that an egg had just killed me, I hadn't seen a deathmessage for 2 minutes, my ping was over 1000, and the marines had no chance to win anyway. I had to retry in order to sync the game up for my poor 33k connection, and I would have dropped within the next few minutes anyway. If I just quit every time I lagged out I wouldn't ever be able to play for more than 20 minutes. So remember, anti-F4 admins: there is at least one legitimate reason for a retry.
well d, for a lot of people it's like going through an epic game of something like final fantasy (it takes ages to get there with much trial and tribulation) only to get to the end story and have it cut off with a 'well done message' instead of a cinematic ending.
I know I sure as heck enjoy being the one to blink over the enemy defences and tear apart the last remaining bastions of defence from the inside =3
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Sep 26 2003, 02:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Sep 26 2003, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well d, for a lot of people it's like going through an epic game of something like final fantasy (it takes ages to get there with much trial and tribulation) only to get to the end story and have it cut off with a 'well done message' instead of a cinematic ending.
I know I sure as heck enjoy being the one to blink over the enemy defences and tear apart the last remaining bastions of defence from the inside =3 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No it's nothing like that, because FPS are generally supposed to be for casual gamers, not being able to F4 ever is like telling you have to beat FF6 all the way through without saving once, or taking a break.
Like I said it's fun to win yah ok. But not everyone has an hour+ to play one single game of NS, f4 was coded into the game, it wasn't an accident, you were supposed to be able to do it.
I think it's somewhat juvenile to have to see the enemy base being wrecked. I play NS for the challenge, for the strategy, tactics, and teamwork. Not to waste 5-10 minutes bashing away at leftover buildings. If the game is effectively over, it should end immediately and start again. So that we can get back to playing THE GAME!
<!--QuoteBegin--Go7+Sep 26 2003, 04:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Go7 @ Sep 26 2003, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's somewhat juvenile to have to see the enemy base being wrecked. I play NS for the challenge, for the strategy, tactics, and teamwork. Not to waste 5-10 minutes bashing away at leftover buildings. If the game is effectively over, it should end immediately and start again. So that we can get back to playing THE GAME! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And if was only 5-10 minutes it would only be that bad. As it stands now endgames in 2.01 can take up to 30 minutes.
I don't know why but go7's basically indirect insult calling people who don't like f4 juvenile really ticks me off ><
Maybe it isn't clear, but some people seem to get mixed up between 'f4 should never be used in a good game because the teams should basically aim to get in there and strike for the victory conditions (all hives dead or ips + marines dead)' with 'OMG!!! F4 IS TEH SUXXORZ!!! JOO F4 PEEPS R TEH SUCK!!! ROFLMAOLOLZERS!!!1!11 I LIKE BURNING THINGS'
if someone's arguing for the second bit there instead of the first one put your hand up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--(KCSA) Robert Paulson+Sep 26 2003, 06:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((KCSA) Robert Paulson @ Sep 26 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You will always have those in favor of F4 and those that are not, both sides will argue, and no one will get there point accross <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "bunnyhopping"
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Sep 26 2003, 04:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Sep 26 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know why but go7's basically indirect insult calling people who don't like f4 juvenile really ticks me off ><
Maybe it isn't clear, but some people seem to get mixed up between 'f4 should never be used in a good game because the teams should basically aim to get in there and strike for the victory conditions (all hives dead or ips + marines dead)' with 'OMG!!! F4 IS TEH SUXXORZ!!! JOO F4 PEEPS R TEH SUCK!!! ROFLMAOLOLZERS!!!1!11 I LIKE BURNING THINGS'
if someone's arguing for the second bit there instead of the first one put your hand up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yah and I can't tell you how many times I've played aliens and the marines had every vital location restriced, killed every upgraded alien we had, and destroyed our 2nd hive, and we spent 40+ mins just losing our one and only hive with no chance for a comeback, then after an hour and 32 minutes playing one round of NS I said "Well look at that I gotta go do homework now, and get stuff ready for work tomorrow" not my idea of time well spent.
PS these days I just f4 and join another server if I see the end game is going to be dragged out.
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+Sep 26 2003, 09:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Sep 26 2003, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "bunnyhopping" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh god, let us NOT get that going.
Yes, you're right. This is fruitless. And I like fruits.
And no, NS is not like sex. The point was made that if you threw your partner off just before they were done, it'd be horrible. Well, in NS the throwing off party doesn't get jack-crap either. So basically the winning team gets to climax and the losers get nothing. It's a REALLY bad comparison.
NS is about PLAYING the game, not ENDING it. For those of you who like to gloat and be a poor winner... I really don't like you. I'm not equating this with blowing up the final hive or taking out the last IP- but there are some cases where it's just dragged out too long and I'm tired of waiting to die.
This is a completely poor sportsmanship attitude I've seen very widespread in the NS community.
It seem folks want the "pleasure" of wiping the floor with their enemy's faces instead of just winning. To gloat in their victory...to rub it in.
The sad part is that in this community, this is the desired behavior!
Explain the logic, where if aliens have no res, one hive, and the marines are completely upgraded with a two-hive lock, why shouldn't the alien team just say "gg" and F4?
The need to stroke an ego? To play with the neat end-game gear? To "pwnz0r some 5kul5!!1!!"?
<!--QuoteBegin--AmazingAlienEnrique+Sep 26 2003, 03:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AmazingAlienEnrique @ Sep 26 2003, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a completely poor sportsmanship attitude I've seen very widespread in the NS community.
It seem folks want the "pleasure" of wiping the floor with their enemy's faces instead of just winning. To gloat in their victory...to rub it in.
The sad part is that in this community, this is the desired behavior!
Explain the logic, where if aliens have no res, one hive, and the marines are completely upgraded with a two-hive lock, why shouldn't the alien team just say "gg" and F4?
The need to stroke an ego? To play with the neat end-game gear? To "pwnz0r some 5kul5!!1!!"?
Let me understand what I am missing, please. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, please, enlighten us why when marines have all the tech and the aliens, nothing, you just sit outside the hive, and slowly build a TF and a farm of turrets. 20 minutes later you decide to build seiges. 10 minutse later you decide YOU have had enough and begin to scan every other minute.
Why? WHY MUST YOU DRAG OUT A GAME IN WHICH YOU HAVE MOST OBVIOUSLY WON!?
I'm pro-F4 in certain circumstances for the simple reason that rather than have the marine team arse about for 10 minutes GL spamming all entrances to their siege point, taking their time, I'd like to go on to the next map and perhaps have some fun. If a server doesn't want F4 wins, then set the team difference to to 9 before a game is conceded, at least then I'll know which servers to avoid, as I won't want to sit down to be "humiliated" as some people call it (I just call it wasting time, playing a game for any amount of time when the result is all but certain yet unable to be ended is just wasted).
Yet no, people will seemingly cry like babies when they STILL WIN even by f4 victory, all because they didn't get their shotgun, HA and welder yet. It's just sad in my opinion, and people need to realise that on PUBLICS (where people seem to be anti-F4 for some reason), the game is about having fun, not only being able to run to your certain death for 5 minutes before the other team decides it might like to end the game.
For anyone who says you should get kicked for pressing f4... Obviously isnt very interesting in making the game fun for Both sides. Lets not forget, Its NOT very enjoyable when your base is being overrun and you can do nothing about it. If you were playing another game, lets say Starcraft for arguements sake, as the Terrans, and your base was being demolished by Zerg, and you had no chance of recovering, would you simply sit there and wait till you were beaten? No, you would hit escape and restart the map ( and I hope no one is going to try and pretend they would do any different.), so, If this is the case, Why would you expect anyone else to do so. Well, theres no reason except that you are only interested in your own enjoyment and not that of the other team. How about instead of making f4 go to the ready room, we just make it bound to quit, this way the other team can just leave and you can play by yourself.
I had the 'pleasure' of seeing exactly why F4 is simply required to prevent incredible frustration on a team.
Today, during a ~10hr NS spree (yay for the weekend!), I dropped by a reputable clan server (naming no names) running ns_lost. As is often the case with that map, the aliens won. They proceeded to rampage into the base, kill everything but the ips, and sit there devouring/goring/gassing/etc. each marine as he spawned in, taking care to not hurt the IPs. After about 10 seconds of this, I said to my team 'everyone f4, they're just killing us over and over'. I then reach up to my F4 key, and press it in anticipation of getting this stupidity over with, and am greeted with a 'Going to the readyroom is disabled on this server' message.
Oh how nice.
So now what am I supposed to do? Sit there while they kill us over and over? Go grab dinner and wait for them to get bored? Nope, I quit, and now have the name of that server on a stickynote attached to my monitor to remind me to never, ever, play there again. I sincerely hope my fellow marines did the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Short answer: you don't like it, play elsewhere.
Long answer: they earned the victory, don't try to steal it from them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dont try to "Steal it" from them? Excuse me, But I dont have the time, Nor the patience to wait around while the other team decides to waste another 10 precious minutes of my Life and free time because they think Its amusing. I am NOT here for your entertainment, and you have to be kidding yourself if you honestly expect me to wait around for you to finally decide that youve had enough of killing players who've just spawned. If someone freely admits that they LIKE to make other peoples time playing NS a tedious and boring experience, then he shouldnt even be allowed to play, because thats downright inconsiderate. Im sorry if I sound angry, But I am. Ive just had to sit through it. again. I'd like to see an option for IPs and hives to Explode, this way next time the other team decides its funny to be lame, They'll all just die and the game will end in a draw. No wins for dragging it out.
And I agree, People who F4 just because they are losing when they can just stick it out and have a good chance of still winning are abusing the option to forfiet, But As long as there are those who think its funny or otherwise ""elite"" to sit next to an IP and kill everything that comes out, there will be a solid need for F4.
to be honest Typh, I don't think anyone would argue against f4 in that situation... the winning team have had the chance to finish the game and get on with the next one so everyone can enjoy themselves but instead they're being a bunch of jerks. If that happens on a server I'm on and f4 doesn't work I just leave (it's only happened all of once though =3 )
Maybe better adminning would help?
Oh and the anti-f4 is a pain when you're trying to balance teams... I hate uneven teams no matter who's winning and always end up being one of the few willing to switch to the underdog at any point in the game to keep things as fair as possible -.-
Obviously, if the winning team are sitting there with web on the IPs eating marines as they spawn and there's no admin around, then you have little choice to F4. If this is a regular problem, I suggest you find a different server or servers to play on, since your current favorites seem to be toothy BJs. People seen prolonging a game unnecessarily where I'm an admin are warned, kicked, and banned as appropriate.
Simple, little girls get annoyed that they cant go in and devour marines too **** them off or they cant walk into hives with there HA/JP and shotguns too blow away helpless skulks that take one hit.
What amazes me is ppl dont seem to F4 that often. I have seen loads of games where the aliens/marines are just been lame and dont finish off a game (they should be the ones getting banned) and the losing team doesnt F4. Its even more amazing when the comm chair is left and all the marines just sit in the marine team dead waiting pointlessly for the aliens too slowly chomp the comm chair away because the comm wouldnt bother get out.
Really i find it more lame sometimes to not F4. F4 is just like quiting the game, u cant ban some one for leaving a game.
If some ppl want to play a game where there is little to no challenge and they are just killing the aliens/marines but not finishing it off might as well go dled some bots.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No one is stealing anyone's "victory", they just want to start another game so they can have fun too. You already won. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutly correct. Experianced players know when a game is lost. Now for the losing side, extending this out isn't any fun. I can say after sitting through multiple 2+ hour marine spawn farmers that there's no fun there for either side. Yet the winning side gets virtually nothing out of it either. "Oh great, I pwned 5 marines, I ams teh "elite"" or "Sweet, I nailed 7 unupgraded skulks with my fully upgraded HMG and HA. I roxor". Playing through Doom with iddqd on is more rewarding <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
When a game is lost, I know that if I'm on the winning or losing side, what I want to do most of all is get another game going. The game I just played might have had it's moments, but it's time to let it go. Wipe the slate clean, give it another shot.
i agree on F4'ing when the marines or aliens are just stretching the game.
but my last game on origin **** me off.
i send all of my marines to computerlab exept 2 (baseguards) 1 of those baseguards i dicede to send to laser and furnace. the guys at computerlab bump into a skulkrush, base gets distroyed. reloc to the 1 guy at furnace. restart from there. get ore, start teching. get laser, rinestart, complab. everybody dies. fade in furnace. lose armslab, 1 ip, obs. fade gets killed, rebuild everything. in that time i had lost all my rts again. (most of them electrified.)
equip 4 guys with HA/shotty and 1 gets a gl. everybody moves out to ore extraction, laser, rine start, comp lab, they kill 2 onos, a fade and some skulks, nobody dies on the way. some of the greatest teamwork i saw on a pub. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (they where all nicely covering, welding eachother, nobody went rambo, ......)
start sieging bio. bio down
and what happens.
GG, aliens all F4 <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> well that freaking pisses me off! i already had a bad start, lose all my rts twice and then when we make a comeback they decide to F4!!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
well the FUN was gone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree, some situations are deemed necessary for F4. One of the most notable is an entire team of HA setting up sieges for the 1 hive skulks. Seriously comms out there, thats not necessary. I don't mind staying for you marines to kill us, but when you stop to make a siege for the last hive, its just stupid, no arguing. On the other hand I get really **** off at you whiny little turds that turn around and F4 after we just played another map where we took the punishment until the very end. It's not fun to have a team drag it out, but its even worse when you don't let the winning team finish it, when they aren't trying to drag it out. I understand sometimes you want to set sieges up JUST IN CASE, but obviously, skulks aren't going to dominate a team of HA, AND, sometimes people do jump the gun and say the other team is dragging it out, when if fact they ARE trying to get in and kill your base, (3 hive aliens, marine turtle). Usually though in that situation, both teams are having fun, aliens trying to kill you, and marines desperately trying to stay alive.
Comments
F4 is formally conceding. Don't think that the attacking team is making a viable attempt at finishing the game(marines tech up to HA 3/3 upgrades to sit outside the hive and kill anyone that tries to get out)? F4. Don't feel like waiting for the aliens to finally find your teammate that is hiding in a vent somewhere? F4.
I agree that people that f4 at the first sign of adversity are lame, but that does not mean that the losing side is your plaything either. Additionally, people that complain about it not being sporting to F4 are overlooking that dragging out the end game needlessly isn't the paragon of sportsmanship either.
Ofcourse Natural Selection is a game of consentual enjoyment. It is meant to be fun for both sides, and you most certainly are giving consent each time you join a server. If you don't want to play, then don't join the server.
If you do want to play, you must take your partner's needs into account as well. Throwing him off you seconds before he is about to finish is a cruel and heartless thing to do. Ok sure you have the right to enjoy yourself too, and nobody is expecting you to simply "lie back and think of England", but if you enjoyed 75% of what you two have just been doing, then doesn't he atleast deserve some reward, some satisfaction for his efforts?
If you don't enjoy it, and don't want to put up with it, then remember to be assertive and decisive. When it stops being fun, you stop it right then and there. Don't let it drag on for 10 minutes telling him that you really are enjoying it when you are not, because when you finally do end it he wont understand why. If you are with a partner that doesn't know of your particular habits, then it may pay to warn him before you start that you intended to let him go as far as he pleases, but you wont let him have his climax. Maybe some of your partners will enjoy this little game of yours, however I believe many would be prefer to be forewand so they can make an informed decision on whether or not they really want to go to that place with you after all...
anywaaay... ~blink~
The fact that you can't talk to the living when you're dead doesn't really help 'communication' very well though in some cases it's pretty obvious that the winning team is being nasty.
I don't think the case is arguing about f4 in obviously sadistic situations, it's f4 when the two teams are still blatting each other, regardless of tech levels.
If all you've got left is your spawn and they sit there killing people at leisure as they appear it's f4 time.
If you've got more than just your spawn and the enemy is intent on killing your spawn you should be biting the beggars XD
How would you feel if moments before the big climax, she pushes you off, and goes to sleep, telling you that you can try again tomorrow?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean that's not normal??? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I find it's a time/place thing.. But I refuse to play on f4 disabled servers because I like using f4 for what it was intended, a way to go AFk without hurting the game...
There have been excellent arguements on both sides, so those who like f4 play on F4 enabled servers.. Those who don't? Play on F4 disabled servers..
GG
Everybody knows you've won, how many people really say "Gee I've never seen an end game I really want to kill the hive and watch every alien die, or eat the ips and kill every marine.". It's just tacking on an extra 20 minutes that could be going towards a new round, some of us don't have hours upon hours to game, so time becomes an issue.
I know I sure as heck enjoy being the one to blink over the enemy defences and tear apart the last remaining bastions of defence from the inside =3
I know I sure as heck enjoy being the one to blink over the enemy defences and tear apart the last remaining bastions of defence from the inside =3 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's nothing like that, because FPS are generally supposed to be for casual gamers, not being able to F4 ever is like telling you have to beat FF6 all the way through without saving once, or taking a break.
Like I said it's fun to win yah ok. But not everyone has an hour+ to play one single game of NS, f4 was coded into the game, it wasn't an accident, you were supposed to be able to do it.
And if was only 5-10 minutes it would only be that bad. As it stands now endgames in 2.01 can take up to 30 minutes.
Maybe it isn't clear, but some people seem to get mixed up between 'f4 should never be used in a good game because the teams should basically aim to get in there and strike for the victory conditions (all hives dead or ips + marines dead)' with 'OMG!!! F4 IS TEH SUXXORZ!!! JOO F4 PEEPS R TEH SUCK!!! ROFLMAOLOLZERS!!!1!11 I LIKE BURNING THINGS'
if someone's arguing for the second bit there instead of the first one put your hand up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"bunnyhopping"
Maybe it isn't clear, but some people seem to get mixed up between 'f4 should never be used in a good game because the teams should basically aim to get in there and strike for the victory conditions (all hives dead or ips + marines dead)' with 'OMG!!! F4 IS TEH SUXXORZ!!! JOO F4 PEEPS R TEH SUCK!!! ROFLMAOLOLZERS!!!1!11 I LIKE BURNING THINGS'
if someone's arguing for the second bit there instead of the first one put your hand up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yah and I can't tell you how many times I've played aliens and the marines had every vital location restriced, killed every upgraded alien we had, and destroyed our 2nd hive, and we spent 40+ mins just losing our one and only hive with no chance for a comeback, then after an hour and 32 minutes playing one round of NS I said "Well look at that I gotta go do homework now, and get stuff ready for work tomorrow" not my idea of time well spent.
PS these days I just f4 and join another server if I see the end game is going to be dragged out.
Oh god, let us NOT get that going.
Yes, you're right. This is fruitless. And I like fruits.
And no, NS is not like sex. The point was made that if you threw your partner off just before they were done, it'd be horrible. Well, in NS the throwing off party doesn't get jack-crap either. So basically the winning team gets to climax and the losers get nothing. It's a REALLY bad comparison.
NS is about PLAYING the game, not ENDING it. For those of you who like to gloat and be a poor winner... I really don't like you. I'm not equating this with blowing up the final hive or taking out the last IP- but there are some cases where it's just dragged out too long and I'm tired of waiting to die.
It seem folks want the "pleasure" of wiping the floor with their enemy's faces instead of just winning. To gloat in their victory...to rub it in.
The sad part is that in this community, this is the desired behavior!
Explain the logic, where if aliens have no res, one hive, and the marines are completely upgraded with a two-hive lock, why shouldn't the alien team just say "gg" and F4?
The need to stroke an ego? To play with the neat end-game gear? To "pwnz0r some 5kul5!!1!!"?
Let me understand what I am missing, please.
It seem folks want the "pleasure" of wiping the floor with their enemy's faces instead of just winning. To gloat in their victory...to rub it in.
The sad part is that in this community, this is the desired behavior!
Explain the logic, where if aliens have no res, one hive, and the marines are completely upgraded with a two-hive lock, why shouldn't the alien team just say "gg" and F4?
The need to stroke an ego? To play with the neat end-game gear? To "pwnz0r some 5kul5!!1!!"?
Let me understand what I am missing, please. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, please, enlighten us why when marines have all the tech and the aliens, nothing, you just sit outside the hive, and slowly build a TF and a farm of turrets. 20 minutes later you decide to build seiges. 10 minutse later you decide YOU have had enough and begin to scan every other minute.
Why?
WHY MUST YOU DRAG OUT A GAME IN WHICH YOU HAVE MOST OBVIOUSLY WON!?
Yet no, people will seemingly cry like babies when they STILL WIN even by f4 victory, all because they didn't get their shotgun, HA and welder yet. It's just sad in my opinion, and people need to realise that on PUBLICS (where people seem to be anti-F4 for some reason), the game is about having fun, not only being able to run to your certain death for 5 minutes before the other team decides it might like to end the game.
-Lee
I really suggest that you READ IT.
Long answer: they earned the victory, don't try to steal it from them.
Today, during a ~10hr NS spree (yay for the weekend!), I dropped by a reputable clan server (naming no names) running ns_lost. As is often the case with that map, the aliens won. They proceeded to rampage into the base, kill everything but the ips, and sit there devouring/goring/gassing/etc. each marine as he spawned in, taking care to not hurt the IPs. After about 10 seconds of this, I said to my team 'everyone f4, they're just killing us over and over'. I then reach up to my F4 key, and press it in anticipation of getting this stupidity over with, and am greeted with a 'Going to the readyroom is disabled on this server' message.
Oh how nice.
So now what am I supposed to do? Sit there while they kill us over and over? Go grab dinner and wait for them to get bored? Nope, I quit, and now have the name of that server on a stickynote attached to my monitor to remind me to never, ever, play there again. I sincerely hope my fellow marines did the same.
Long answer: they earned the victory, don't try to steal it from them.
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Dont try to "Steal it" from them? Excuse me, But I dont have the time, Nor the patience to wait around while the other team decides to waste another 10 precious minutes of my Life and free time because they think Its amusing. I am NOT here for your entertainment, and you have to be kidding yourself if you honestly expect me to wait around for you to finally decide that youve had enough of killing players who've just spawned. If someone freely admits that they LIKE to make other peoples time playing NS a tedious and boring experience, then he shouldnt even be allowed to play, because thats downright inconsiderate. Im sorry if I sound angry, But I am. Ive just had to sit through it. again. I'd like to see an option for IPs and hives to Explode, this way next time the other team decides its funny to be lame, They'll all just die and the game will end in a draw. No wins for dragging it out.
And I agree, People who F4 just because they are losing when they can just stick it out and have a good chance of still winning are abusing the option to forfiet, But As long as there are those who think its funny or otherwise ""elite"" to sit next to an IP and kill everything that comes out, there will be a solid need for F4.
If that happens on a server I'm on and f4 doesn't work I just leave (it's only happened all of once though =3 )
Maybe better adminning would help?
Oh and the anti-f4 is a pain when you're trying to balance teams... I hate uneven teams no matter who's winning and always end up being one of the few willing to switch to the underdog at any point in the game to keep things as fair as possible -.-
That's the "Stupid answer"
No one is stealing anyone's "victory", they just want to start another game so they can have fun too. You already won.
What amazes me is ppl dont seem to F4 that often. I have seen loads of games where the aliens/marines are just been lame and dont finish off a game (they should be the ones getting banned) and the losing team doesnt F4. Its even more amazing when the comm chair is left and all the marines just sit in the marine team dead waiting pointlessly for the aliens too slowly chomp the comm chair away because the comm wouldnt bother get out.
Really i find it more lame sometimes to not F4. F4 is just like quiting the game, u cant ban some one for leaving a game.
If some ppl want to play a game where there is little to no challenge and they are just killing the aliens/marines but not finishing it off might as well go dled some bots.
Absolutly correct. Experianced players know when a game is lost. Now for the losing side, extending this out isn't any fun. I can say after sitting through multiple 2+ hour marine spawn farmers that there's no fun there for either side. Yet the winning side gets virtually nothing out of it either. "Oh great, I pwned 5 marines, I ams teh "elite"" or "Sweet, I nailed 7 unupgraded skulks with my fully upgraded HMG and HA. I roxor". Playing through Doom with iddqd on is more rewarding <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
When a game is lost, I know that if I'm on the winning or losing side, what I want to do most of all is get another game going. The game I just played might have had it's moments, but it's time to let it go. Wipe the slate clean, give it another shot.
but my last game on origin **** me off.
i send all of my marines to computerlab exept 2 (baseguards)
1 of those baseguards i dicede to send to laser and furnace. the guys at computerlab bump into a skulkrush, base gets distroyed. reloc to the 1 guy at furnace. restart from there. get ore, start teching. get laser, rinestart, complab. everybody dies. fade in furnace. lose armslab, 1 ip, obs. fade gets killed, rebuild everything. in that time i had lost all my rts again. (most of them electrified.)
equip 4 guys with HA/shotty and 1 gets a gl. everybody moves out to ore extraction, laser, rine start, comp lab, they kill 2 onos, a fade and some skulks, nobody dies on the way. some of the greatest teamwork i saw on a pub. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (they where all nicely covering, welding eachother, nobody went rambo, ......)
start sieging bio. bio down
and what happens.
GG, aliens all F4 <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> well that freaking pisses me off! i already had a bad start, lose all my rts twice and then when we make a comeback they decide to F4!!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
well the FUN was gone. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->