I think these guidelines holds true most of the time for chamber building. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
- DCs within the first 2 chambers.
- SCs must be decided on and built early; a SC net should be built ASAP.
dcs are also better first chamber on clan games. fades with mc are constantly blinking back to the hive to heal while dc fades can stick around much much much (x100) longer. they don't really need mc until they have acid spam, which really sux by the time you get it. just watch the syn vs ham match. syn did much better as aliens because they got dc. ham ALMOST lost to the jps because they went mc first. a couple of ham fades died and one of them even had to go lerk for umbra.
dcs are better because you can live longer. ie. they let you make mistakes. the other chambers, mc/sc, rely more on giving you an edge on killing your enemy; they enhance your KILLING power, not your LIVING power. what good is being an offensive powerhouse if you're made of paper?
I don't think Ollj was ever saying that Sensory or MC first followed by any other chamber is a bad tactic, only an inferior one on publics compared to putting down DC's first.
I have to agree, DC needs the least teamwork, and so it is the best for those pub games...maybe something needs to be done to organise the chambers so they all need as much teamwork as another.
Thing with mc first for fades is that u get the forever blink mode and going back to a hive and healing then going back to the place u attack is great and u can blink around there constantly and avoid been hit. plus u shouldnt really have to go back hive as just have a pair of gorges with u with adren, faster than hiding around corner and waiting for regen.
pubs = DC or MC first. yes, there are pubs out there where people will go mc first and where there are some skilled players.
but i don't even bother anymore to ask if i can put SC first. all that you will hear is: noob, omg you are crazy!!! ......................
but SC can be very usefull in the early game, certainly when you see that marines are getting shotties or are getting ready to shottie rush.
nothing is more fun then walking into their base at the very begining of the game with cloak and then kill 3-4 marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Man what the heck to i type at that time of day. I need to stop doign that when i finish NS/at school after sleeping through the last period.
And man, SCs can own so much. Normally i get 20+ kills a game with me being gorge 3/4 of it. Walking with cloak last night on 3 diffrent maps for about the same time i got more around 50. Clereity and Cloak own. Too bad that it only worked because a ton of regs were on my server and so the majority of people were good at the game. Trying that at a diffrent time of day would suck so much.
Anyways i still hold firm that MCs are better for the first hive chamber I mean if you cant get a 2nd hive your gonna lose anyways.
Plus Adren Lerks can spore/spike like nobody's business. Since lerks are support critters (my personal opinion at the very least) they dont really *need* any dc upgrades. Regen/Redempt IS good for em, but id rather be able to launch 4 or 5 spore shots in 8 seconds, or spike without needing to wait for energy to get back up like you sometimes need to trying to take down those 'fried RTs.
Skulks dont need ANY dc upgrades ever. Redempt Skulks i find work more often than Redempt Onos, but that is probably just my bad luck with Onos. Regen Skulks i only use against HA with Celerity, and even then its only so those pesky LMG Lighties with welders, or if the HA think their funny by trying to weld/knife me. lvl 1 HMG shot kills you too fast for regen to work. And finally Cara Skulks are just, well, usless. what is it? 20 extra armor at lvl 3? Im sorry but when you get commanders that upgrade their marines regularly (like most comms do) that extra 20 wont be worth the 2 res it costs. plus against farms it just better to have something else rush the TF like a Regen Onos or a lerk to spike it or a gorge to bile it from above somewhere.
Fades i think do need DCs. BUT id rather have a 2nd hive than a lerk. 10 to gorge, 40 to Hive. 50 res. Wow. Fades cost the same. im so annoyed when 4 people go fade then whine about the hive not being up at all. fuggin jerks. First one to 50 should get the hive up. Simple as that. I mean 50 res, i think that needs Redempt. Not Regen because you got Metabolize. granted its a weapon, but FADES (look hard at that name) are Hit and Run buggers. Adren/Celerity Fades just pwn usually. I havent seen many silent fades but considering how fast Blink goes, i think it would be one of the best upgrades you can get for it. And Cara Fades, they're good but only if YOU are good as fade. Too easy to get caught up in killing marines to realise you ahve 10 life and not enough time to blink away.
Onos need DCs. Simple as that. Regen Onos can take out ANY turret farm. 1 lvl 0 Marine with LMG plus the turrets can kill you, but ive seen Regen Onos walk into rooms with 20+ turrets and not get below 350-400 life. A bit overpowerd, but when you throw in that ONE lvl 0 Marine with LMG, the onos begins to die fast. ANd thats why i think Lerks are supporters. They Umbra (cause you shouldnt have onos before teh 2nd hive is up and you got 3 dcs!) the Regen Onos and gas 1 Umbra, 2 Spore, 1 umbra, 2 spore. Bullets start stoppin and that lighty starts dying fast wihtout the onos having to worry about it. Redempt Onos are needed when its lvl 3 HA and HMGs just cause regen onos dies WAY to dang fast. And Cara Onos. I ought to smack you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Im serious. Cara Onos is the worst DC upgrade you can get. Regen onos is pretty much immune to lvl 0-2 marines as long as its just 3 or 4 of em and no farm to back em up. And Redempt Onos works for everyone but me nearly every time.
Gorges. Silent Gorges survive more than redempt/regen/cara gorges. Being able to build silently means that until they get Motion Tracking your pretty much set for hiding as you build. Celerity Gorges are as fast as skulks allowing them to run behind say Silent Skulks with marines (if they have no motion) thinking its just a gorge. The Gorge(s) healspray the second fire opens up and the skulks rip em to pieces. Works great. Gorges are cheap at 10 res Ifyou die as gorge and have ocs this shouldnt be a problem. If you didnt have ocs, skulk for a bit and kill 4 mariens. Not that hard and takes only a little bit. Then once that 2nd hive is up (should take from 2-6 minutes) you get Redempt if you battle gorge. Otherwise you should probably have some allies nearby. At least on the server i play 2 or 3 guys babysit our gorges and rack up kills like that as the Marines only hear a gorge and not us silent skulks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways thats my true arguement i guess. Better thought out i think, fairly similar to my previous one but i swear i mustve been out of it just a lil. I sleep during my 2nd period at school (cause i dont have one yay!) and type it all up during 3rd cause im just there for TA credit, which in a comp class usually means playin online games and what not. So sorry about that. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Currently, the problem with sensory is that the evolutions it gives aren't great and the cost of a good sensory net is prohibitive. The first problem makes it ineffective in attacking, and the second makes it difficult to properly contain marines unless your team is very well organised. Also, everything the chamber does except for SOF can be negated by obs and scanner sweep.
Clearly, sensories need improving, probably with a useful, combat-related evolution in place of pheromones. The best suggestion I've seen is some kind of 'bloodlust' or 'hunting' evolution similar to pheromones but giving a short-lived speed + attack rate bonus from touching the clouds, similar to a combination of umbra and primal scream.
Comments
- DCs within the first 2 chambers.
- SCs must be decided on and built early; a SC net should be built ASAP.
dcs are better because you can live longer. ie. they let you make mistakes. the other chambers, mc/sc, rely more on giving you an edge on killing your enemy; they enhance your KILLING power, not your LIVING power. what good is being an offensive powerhouse if you're made of paper?
I have to agree, DC needs the least teamwork, and so it is the best for those pub games...maybe something needs to be done to organise the chambers so they all need as much teamwork as another.
-Lee
but i don't even bother anymore to ask if i can put SC first. all that you will hear is: noob, omg you are crazy!!! ......................
but SC can be very usefull in the early game, certainly when you see that marines are getting shotties or are getting ready to shottie rush.
nothing is more fun then walking into their base at the very begining of the game with cloak and then kill 3-4 marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And man, SCs can own so much. Normally i get 20+ kills a game with me being gorge 3/4 of it. Walking with cloak last night on 3 diffrent maps for about the same time i got more around 50. Clereity and Cloak own. Too bad that it only worked because a ton of regs were on my server and so the majority of people were good at the game. Trying that at a diffrent time of day would suck so much.
Anyways i still hold firm that MCs are better for the first hive chamber I mean if you cant get a 2nd hive your gonna lose anyways.
Plus Adren Lerks can spore/spike like nobody's business. Since lerks are support critters (my personal opinion at the very least) they dont really *need* any dc upgrades. Regen/Redempt IS good for em, but id rather be able to launch 4 or 5 spore shots in 8 seconds, or spike without needing to wait for energy to get back up like you sometimes need to trying to take down those 'fried RTs.
Skulks dont need ANY dc upgrades ever. Redempt Skulks i find work more often than Redempt Onos, but that is probably just my bad luck with Onos. Regen Skulks i only use against HA with Celerity, and even then its only so those pesky LMG Lighties with welders, or if the HA think their funny by trying to weld/knife me. lvl 1 HMG shot kills you too fast for regen to work. And finally Cara Skulks are just, well, usless. what is it? 20 extra armor at lvl 3? Im sorry but when you get commanders that upgrade their marines regularly (like most comms do) that extra 20 wont be worth the 2 res it costs. plus against farms it just better to have something else rush the TF like a Regen Onos or a lerk to spike it or a gorge to bile it from above somewhere.
Fades i think do need DCs. BUT id rather have a 2nd hive than a lerk. 10 to gorge, 40 to Hive. 50 res. Wow. Fades cost the same. im so annoyed when 4 people go fade then whine about the hive not being up at all. fuggin jerks. First one to 50 should get the hive up. Simple as that. I mean 50 res, i think that needs Redempt. Not Regen because you got Metabolize. granted its a weapon, but FADES (look hard at that name) are Hit and Run buggers. Adren/Celerity Fades just pwn usually. I havent seen many silent fades but considering how fast Blink goes, i think it would be one of the best upgrades you can get for it. And Cara Fades, they're good but only if YOU are good as fade. Too easy to get caught up in killing marines to realise you ahve 10 life and not enough time to blink away.
Onos need DCs. Simple as that. Regen Onos can take out ANY turret farm. 1 lvl 0 Marine with LMG plus the turrets can kill you, but ive seen Regen Onos walk into rooms with 20+ turrets and not get below 350-400 life. A bit overpowerd, but when you throw in that ONE lvl 0 Marine with LMG, the onos begins to die fast. ANd thats why i think Lerks are supporters. They Umbra (cause you shouldnt have onos before teh 2nd hive is up and you got 3 dcs!) the Regen Onos and gas 1 Umbra, 2 Spore, 1 umbra, 2 spore. Bullets start stoppin and that lighty starts dying fast wihtout the onos having to worry about it. Redempt Onos are needed when its lvl 3 HA and HMGs just cause regen onos dies WAY to dang fast. And Cara Onos. I ought to smack you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Im serious. Cara Onos is the worst DC upgrade you can get. Regen onos is pretty much immune to lvl 0-2 marines as long as its just 3 or 4 of em and no farm to back em up. And Redempt Onos works for everyone but me nearly every time.
Gorges. Silent Gorges survive more than redempt/regen/cara gorges. Being able to build silently means that until they get Motion Tracking your pretty much set for hiding as you build. Celerity Gorges are as fast as skulks allowing them to run behind say Silent Skulks with marines (if they have no motion) thinking its just a gorge. The Gorge(s) healspray the second fire opens up and the skulks rip em to pieces. Works great. Gorges are cheap at 10 res Ifyou die as gorge and have ocs this shouldnt be a problem. If you didnt have ocs, skulk for a bit and kill 4 mariens. Not that hard and takes only a little bit. Then once that 2nd hive is up (should take from 2-6 minutes) you get Redempt if you battle gorge. Otherwise you should probably have some allies nearby. At least on the server i play 2 or 3 guys babysit our gorges and rack up kills like that as the Marines only hear a gorge and not us silent skulks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways thats my true arguement i guess. Better thought out i think, fairly similar to my previous one but i swear i mustve been out of it just a lil. I sleep during my 2nd period at school (cause i dont have one yay!) and type it all up during 3rd cause im just there for TA credit, which in a comp class usually means playin online games and what not. So sorry about that. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Red
Clearly, sensories need improving, probably with a useful, combat-related evolution in place of pheromones. The best suggestion I've seen is some kind of 'bloodlust' or 'hunting' evolution similar to pheromones but giving a short-lived speed + attack rate bonus from touching the clouds, similar to a combination of umbra and primal scream.