Natural Selection: Combat

KungFuDiscoMonkey

<div class="IPBDescription">From a Level Designers Perspective</div> I wanted to see what level designers thought about this new mode and if a lot of new people would be switching over to make co_ maps. I personally plan on sticking with the good ol' ns_ maps but I wanted to see some other opinions.

Xzilen

<!--QuoteBegin--KungFuDiscoMonkey+Sep 16 2003, 05:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 16 2003, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanted to see what level designers thought about this new mode and if a lot of new people would be switching over to make co_ maps. I personally plan on sticking with the good ol' ns_ maps but I wanted to see some other opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good, I'm afraid too many people will switch to Comabt :-\

KungFuDiscoMonkey

<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Sep 16 2003, 06:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Sep 16 2003, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--KungFuDiscoMonkey+Sep 16 2003, 05:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 16 2003, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanted to see what level designers thought about this new mode and if a lot of new people would be switching over to make co_ maps. I personally plan on sticking with the good ol' ns_ maps but I wanted to see some other opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good, I'm afraid too many people will switch to Comabt :-\ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughs are that when I FINIALLY finish my ns_ level, that I'll have a huge sense of accomplishment. If I wanted to build deathmatch levels, I could just as easly do that for another mod. For me the appeal to level design with NS is the uniqueness of the gamemode.

blueman

well i find it fantastic. You can do a big and thoughted NS serious map or a quick and easy Combat one. You can even convert them. I like the idea and will convert both Nirvana and Mystic.

Cagey

I personally think that this really opens up some possibilities for different environments/backstories that were tough to justify before. Since you're no longer bound by the need to explain the presense of resource nodes or commanders, map environments like cave networks or alien homeworlds (discussed quite a few times in the past) become viable.

I also think it's a little much to say that NS: Combat doesn't offer anything different from the WC3 CS mod - the NS alien classes in particular are different enough from normal classes to present unique gameplay IMHO.

I think it would be much easier to create a fully polished Combat map since there are fewer player perspectives to consider. I am a little sad to see that it looks like the welder is out (given Flayra's comment from the primary Combat thread), but I suppose that holding territory (aside from spawn areas) isn't a necessity of the new mode.

My 2 cents <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Mendasp

Yes, I'm with blueman...

I'll convert my map into a co_ map so I'll have two versions, one bigger for the normal gameplay, and the other one smaller and more DMish (with more connectivity) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Ollj

like the idea of having a smaller version of my map.

one big question is, how to make deathmatch maps with wallclimping, supefast movement and more than just different player classes.

DarkATi

What is everyone talking about, I'm lost... Combat?

~ DarkATi

Hypergrip

to me making co_ maps is a LOT easier, because there a lots of things you don't have to think about: hive distances, res node placement, weldables, commander view, and so on...

I will continue making my ns_ map (ns_falcon).. it's the first ns map tat I really feel I can finish.
After that (and depending on how the whole co_ thingie turned out) I might start working on a co_ map.
In fact there is one thing that makes co_ maps quite nice: level over level is possible.

But in general I fear that co_ will take over the "serious" ns.
AND I fear for the quality of ns custom maps!
Right now there are a lot of medium and good quality custom maps for NS.. of course there are some "poor" (not to say crappy) maps, but in general I think the ns mapping cummunity has a very high standard... wich has to do with the all those things one has to keep in mind when mapping and all the limits given.
That alone means that a large part of the released maps are done by more or less dedicated and experienced persons.
With co_ mapping prepare for a LOT of co_cardboxes...

just my 2 cent

Hyper

oh btw: should anybody make a co_dust (1:1 convertion) prepare to get your butt kicked by me... I mean it

Fieari

They seem to be talking about a new gameplay mode. Since this is the mapping forum, and not the Suggestions forum, it's probably an announcement on the main NS page.

*checks*

It is. Apparently, the justification for the new gameplay mode is something of a tutorial for new players, and also support for people wanting to play "Fun maps"... forget resources, just kill each other. I can see how it can work.

KungFuDiscoMonkey

This thread is doing pretty good and accomplished my goal. I wanted to see some other views about mapping for the new gamemode. I guess it's starting to change my mind a bit. I think the initial "I don't want to map for co_" is just that I like the origional NS and don't want to counterstrike it. I still think that for now I'm going to consentrate on finishing my ns_ level.

carioca

ns is more than a dm is a teamwork mod.
nomore weapons rush, now ns is a build strategy and teamwork.
u make and up of the ground tatics and builds, when u leave the game your build keep on the place with the another of the team.

Kage

It's still possible to make a co_ map atmospheric and immersive, it's just that they don't have to follow quite as many rules as an ns_ map.

I like the idea. Many times a mapper may run out of ideas- a co_ map makes a perfect side project while an ns_ map is stalled, instead of attempting to start another tough project.

BigD

Seeing as to how I've hit a bad case of "Mappers Block" in my "standard" map, this may be an oppurtunity to try some of the stuff I've had to throw in the scrap bin. eg: level on level...

Morden

I like the idea of NS: Combat, and i'm drooling at the opportunity to finally do some NS mapping where Level-over-level is not a concern. For the last month and a half my friend and I (both experienced mappers and clanners) have been making a quality NS map... but now we're considering this opportunity to make our map for the new playmode. Unfortunately the mapping guide was really vague. Does there only have to be one hive room? Do the marines need to be able to spawn in different areas? I've read Flayra's thread in General Discussion, the mapping guide and the front page, but if there's more information out there could somebody please post a link to it. Thanks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

DEADscott

Fun maps!! Got love public demand. It seems that a lot of players liked the FUN map type of NS play. Also look at this as a way of introducing NS to new players. I am looking foward to these type of maps and this type of play.

Morden

I think mappers should try hard not to unintentionally make fun maps for NS:Combat.. I think it has potential to be a serious playmode. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Consider the potential the mode will deliver in terms practicing squad tactics. Sure, it could be played as a Fun map... but it could also be excellent with a group of organised players, especially if mappers are consistant in providing amush opportunities, ect, ect.

KungFuSquirrel

I've been talking to Flayra quite a bit today about the new mode, and I am at this point scrambling on getting a playable map for this game type. ns_sepulcher will become co_sepulcher. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. I think there's a lot of potential behind this mode, but it's going to have to be done right from the start. Here's hoping we can manage just that.

It's also been a while since I've put this sort of pressure on myself, and it's about damn time I get myself back in motion. I'm not happy with how I've been doing lately, NS, NW, or otherwise, and I have a really good feeling that this is the jump start I need. It should be fun.

Some_tall_guy1

With level over level I think it would be much easier to create more atmospheric maps. I am however worried about the actual gameplay of co_.

KungFuSquirrel

Why is level over level so critical to making an atmospheric map? There's no reason you still can't create a solid sense of atmosphere...

Some_tall_guy1

KFS, its just how I feel, not everyone else. Hell maybe every level over level map will be sunshine lollypop style <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

uffo

imho combat is good idea. already made small layot - very tiny in fact - for this <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's also a bit relaxing to do smaller maps for while and not to stress with bigger ns_ maps.

altho when they're smaller, there'll be helluva lots of more detail

ChromeAngel

I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off me. Free from the constraints of the core gameplay mode! No more siege cannons!

<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->

My work in progress map (ns_justice) will likely become co_justice. You might be seeing co_thief too <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

Slightly disapointed Flayra hasn't been more inovative with his choice of second gameplay mode, but I guess I can't complain.

moultano

It would be interesting if we started seeing a lot of ns_ co_ map pairs coming out. The co map could function as a large scale style test for the full map and could be related by backstory such that maybe the co map was the first encounter or some such.

Anime_Tentacle_Monster

sounds interesting enough...action based NS...I was danm near crucified for reccomending something like that a year ago <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

Thaldarin

Personally I won't play the game mode much, after finishing my ns_ map I may make a co_ map. But from the level design perspective i see many CS Map conversions on the horizon (Prime example = ns_dust becoming co_dust)

blueman

I find this new mode a total refresh to the mod. Its meant to capture new players aswell as to make NS universe a bit DM friendly. A TeamDM NS is a great idea and it will pwn most of you. Itll add to the mod what it needed, some quick games for a small group of pple. Instead of that, you can play normal NS if you preffer tactics and have more time to play.

About maps, itll not be so easy to make maps for it. We know they should be small but, hehehe, its not that co_ maps must be 2 rooms. I hope some official maps will be cnverted to this mode.

Supernorn

I'll be working on a combat Map soon. Its going to be set in a sewer network, with a few medium sized rooms for some intense battles.

co_sewer does sound a little bland, so i'll come up with a different name in the future... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

nthing

I'm looking forward to seeing some outdoor areas now, as there is no commander mode and therefore no excuse why you can't do outdoor.

esuna

<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Sep 17 2003, 11:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Sep 17 2003, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll be working on a combat Map soon. Its going to be set in a sewer network, with a few medium sized rooms for some intense battles.

co_sewer does sound a little bland, so i'll come up with a different name in the future... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
co_poopoo_hole would be a better name.

Mendasp

<!--QuoteBegin--nØthing+Sep 17 2003, 01:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (nØthing @ Sep 17 2003, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm looking forward to seeing some outdoor areas now, as there is no commander mode and therefore no excuse why you can't do outdoor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We still have the lerk + skybox thing, but maybe some func_push at the top... simulating pressure, or maybe a forcefield...

<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

We'll see <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

When I finish my map, I'm going to do a new version for co_ and release them together, it's gonna be interesting to have some level-over-level areas, I have thought a couple of things already, and also... I needed a change, so, this is perfect for me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->