<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Mar. 01 2002,00:31--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Mar. 01 2002,00:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Erm... long, spikey (=pointy) legs = high pressure on impact != safe landing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just to clarify, and to show off my 313373 C++age ski11z, I will point out the "!=" means "Does not equal". :-)
I belive that bob should suffer minimal damage from falling and be stunned for a short period, about 2 seconds. And to add my bit of physics: Bob would instinctivly extend his/her/its pointy appendages in front (Below) of the body. This would lenghten the time he/she/it is decellerating and lessen the shock. Just like a human instinct is to sick their arms out in front of them in a fall.
My stupid story: Last year in physics when we were studying basic dynamics of car crashes, our teacher told us about this guy that didn't wear a seatbelt. His belief was that he could hold himself off the dashboard in the event of a crash. He (The teacher) likened this to standing on a two-story roof and waiting untill somone snuck (sneaked, whatever) up behind you and pushed you off and trying to hold yourself off the ground in the impact.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gasfiend+Mar. 03 2002,20:25--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Gasfiend @ Mar. 03 2002,20:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you fail to address the point that the aliens will not have chitin rather than bones.
...
So lets see...i suppose if the creature was a boneless bag of flesh, then it'd be able to withstand the fall, assuming it had chitin exoskeletal features.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Boneless bag of flesh? LOL... like an ant? or a bee? or a lobster? or a crab? or a spider? or a scorpion?
Yes, I'm assuming the creature DOESN'T HAVE bones. No INTERNAL skeletal structure. Bees, ants, (ooh! HIVE creatures <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->) as well as spiders, lobsters, crabs, etc, have one thing in common: no interior skeleton. They have exoskeletons. Drop an ant from 2 feet off the ground (which, for a 1/2 inch ant, is 48 times his body length) and he'll be fine. For a human, that'd be analagous to almost 300 feet. The reason ants and such can survive is because they DON'T have a rigid bone structure. They have a supple, more flexibile exoskeleton. Of course, on Earth, you don't find invertebrates larger than 6 feet (and even those live on the ocean floor.) This is because gravity prevents exoskeletons from effeciently scaling upwards to large sizes (total surface area [the heavy, armor-like exoskeleton] increases exponentially as size increases.) However, aliens could have lighter exoskeletons with comparable toughness, due to either superior evolution or genetic tampering (storyline? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->) So the question then, is, Do the aliens have endoskeletons or exoskeletons? Flayra? I would tend to think they have exoskeletons. They're just more alien that way, and they can have cool abilities like being able to drop off the ceiling safely.
I think it is a combination. You know, a male goat has an endoskeleton, but his horns are also made out of bone, they are outside his body. I think the aliens have both endo and exoskeleton, on some places endo and at some places exo. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
I think it depends on gameplay! They'll tweak the damage-values by actually playing around zith it, then when they found the valeu that provides the best balance in-game they use that, then they adjust the story 2 that, btw those aliens don't really look like they have an exoskeleton.
how about this, make the durned thing ALL CHITIN!!?? HAPPY NOW? if it s all a complex bio-organic polymer, the blasted thing won't take any damage! Let alone falling damage! Granted he wouldn't have any muscles to move with, no nervous sytem to think or feel pain with, and no circulartory, repiratory, endocrine etc.. sytems with which to live with, but hey, who needs realism??!! Romothicus, you also make the point that the insect thingamabobbers won't take any falling damage...well fine and dandy, but their weight relative to their size means they they'll tkae little damage, as air cuurents would probably lift them (assuming they fell 300 ft). errm...that made little sense.... anyway, as for lobsters...throw one off of...say a relativly short distance, about 30 feet...should have funny results..heheh smashed lobsters.......anyway, your point on endoskeletons is well noted, assuming the aliens had both, its likely that indeed, they wouldn't take much falling damage at all, though neither would they immdeiately start moving once they landed. So again i say that they should take minimal damage from falling damage and should pause for a second or two. also, the larger the alien, the more damage sustained from falling.....yeah...erm, rant over. Gasfiend Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
With Bob being shaped the way he is, where his forearms/legs are parallel to the ground shows he obviously evolved to sustain falling distances. While we Terran lifeforms tend to stick our forearms straight down to break falls thus "decreasing the distance between us adn point of impact" (as maentioned above), Bob's shape is designed for a completely diferent "spring" approach to landing. He'll impact on his spikes, then drop his "elbows" using the muscles at the 3 joints of each appendage to absorb most of the impact. (look at Molecular's avatar you'll see what I mean)
This would result in two diferent out comes on impact from an extremely high distance.
1)The inertia Bob has built up can be handled by his muscles, enabling him to kill the momentum of his body after his claws impact but before the rest of him does, in which case bob walks away with nothing more than chipped nails (and considering those nails are supposed to be punching through concrete and steel so he can climb even them being chiped might not happen).
2)The inertia excedes the ability of those muscles to stop it, in which case the muscles would be ripped from their anchors on the bones which would mean absolutely no momentum would be lost after teh impact of the claws and bob dies in a nice little splat on the floor (or as noodles if he hit a catwalk since the speed which he'd have to have built up would force him straight through the grating)
As far as game mechanics, I say bob should be able to fall at LEAST 5-6 stories with absolutely no damage, but if he falls farther than his "no dammge" heighth he should died instantly.
Another note on this, regardless if my "instant death" idea is used, I think any bob that suffers fatal damage from a fall, instead of simply dieing they should automaticaly self-destruct on impact. It would certainly make them quite a bit more interesting.
Imagine three bobs waiting on a ceiling so high up it practically impossible to make them out, but they can see amrines walk in. then they drop down and go splat-BOOM! Three bobs could easily take out an enitre squad like this. Of course giving the fact that bobs can fall so far without damamge, they will be hard pressed to find a ceiling that high.
Regarding your idea of a fall distance of "at least 5-6 stories" it seems to me that most places in the maps won't have height differences this extreme, maybe as much as 4 stories, but anything higher than that would probably resultt in a fall to a place that players aren't supposed to be anyway (such as deep pits of death). Of course, there are alot of different maps being developed and some people may find ways to incorporate large drops from one area to another, in which case Bob's falling resistance could be challenged.
Yes I know, But I'm looking at the general size/weight bob would be, That also why I mentioned at teh bootom that finding a ceiling of that height would be very difficult.
Mmmmm. Plus I don't think Bobs should be penalized for falling onto the head of a marine....it's more like a pounce-move then an uncontrolled free fall.
So many bob-haters <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
hmmm, though i'm fully exasperated by people who think they know more about the dynamics and physics involved with objects falling distances that they were never intended to...i'd like to say that (deviating from realism) if a Bob takes a swan-dive off of a 100 story platform, in a fall that is sure to kill him (e.g. regardless of how the team codes it, the Bob should die), if he manages to land on the head of a marine, than not only should the Bob not be penalized, but should be rewarded with an instant kill (of the unfortunate marine who's kneck Bob just crushed like a watermelon smashed between Pamela Andersons breasts... This has been brought to you by The American Gas Co. Gasfiend Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
However, utilizing the spring-down-to-the-elbows-and-back-up method. A belly-flop (to utilize your 'swan-dive' swimming image) off of a three or four story platform, Bob won't have a single problem surviving intact and healthy.
And Bob doing a swan dive off of any height into concrete is gonna hurt. Landing on your head is not good. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
I do know that in normal HL, falling on a person's head from a great distance = falling onto the ground from a great distance. In other words, death on both counts. I think that this should be reversed. If the aliens do a pounce move onto their prey, from some high-up perch, the one they are pouncing on should receive the damage of Bob's sharp claws punching into his head. In real life, somebody falling off a 3 story building onto a person walking below would usually result in the person below getting flattened, and somewhat cushioning the impact of the guy who fell.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
I really like this idea, as it would also make the 'bobs' try to clim as high up as possible. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
oooh, that'd be neat, if you were a marine in a squad of three or so, walking down a corridor of an abondoned lead smelting plant. With corridors and open air vaults many hundreds of feet high, you take care in the knowledge that the Bob's you're hunting, wouldn't dare climb that high for fear of them crushing themselves. All seems well, until the commander flashes an emergency message indicating to you and your squad to hold still and wait for reinforecements before proceding. Acknowldgeing this order, you wait, and you hear the footsteps of your reinforcements coming from down the hall. As they near you and the two others with you, the commander chimes in that the aliens, multiple contacts are very close, and that you boys should watch your feet for aliens in the floor ducts. As the reinforcements arrive, your group of seven or eight begin moving slowly down the cavernous corridor once again. Suddenly the commander excalims that you're right on top of the alien contacts! Viewing the solid steel floor, you take heart knowing that there's no way the Bob's can come up at you. Someone asks the commander if his equipment is working right...and then it hits you, as you realize, they aren't coming UP to meet you... You get a brief second to glance upwards, and see a swarm, like cockroaches fluched out by fire and smoke, crawling over the ceiling, hundreds of feet above you. An instant later, the swarm disperses, and you tell your team to scatter...an instant later, you and the screams of your team are silenced, as you seem to not have heads with which to make sound with....
This has been brought to you by The American Gas Co. Gasfiend Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconsciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
INFESTATION EVERYWHERE! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO!
NS...:)
Anyway, I don't know if Flayra is following this thread anymore, so who knows if this will be implemented. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
MartOrigin of SUYFJoin Date: 2002-02-26Member: 248Members
It's kinda hard to follow the 'imagine ifs' without getting distracted... maybe breaking them up into smaller paragraphs would make for easier reading.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
Anyway, this is what we should be discussing: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--> I do know that in normal HL, falling on a person's head from a great distance = falling onto the ground from a great distance. In other words, death on both counts. I think that this should be reversed. If the aliens do a pounce move onto their prey, from some high-up perch, the one they are pouncing on should receive the damage of Bob's sharp claws punching into his head. In real life, somebody falling off a 3 story building onto a person walking below would usually result in the person below getting flattened, and somewhat cushioning the impact of the guy who fell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Just to clarify, and to show off my 313373 C++age ski11z, I will point out the "!=" means "Does not equal". :-)
I belive that bob should suffer minimal damage from falling and be stunned for a short period, about 2 seconds. And to add my bit of physics: Bob would instinctivly extend his/her/its pointy appendages in front (Below) of the body. This would lenghten the time he/she/it is decellerating and lessen the shock. Just like a human instinct is to sick their arms out in front of them in a fall.
My stupid story: Last year in physics when we were studying basic dynamics of car crashes, our teacher told us about this guy that didn't wear a seatbelt. His belief was that he could hold himself off the dashboard in the event of a crash. He (The teacher) likened this to standing on a two-story roof and waiting untill somone snuck (sneaked, whatever) up behind you and pushed you off and trying to hold yourself off the ground in the impact.
That kinda proved me wrong a bit... umm
Bob would be much stronger.
--Scythe--
<a href="mailto:the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk">the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk</a>
...
So lets see...i suppose if the creature was a boneless bag of flesh, then it'd be able to withstand the fall, assuming it had chitin exoskeletal features.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Boneless bag of flesh? LOL... like an ant? or a bee? or a lobster? or a crab? or a spider? or a scorpion?
Yes, I'm assuming the creature DOESN'T HAVE bones. No INTERNAL skeletal structure. Bees, ants, (ooh! HIVE creatures <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->) as well as spiders, lobsters, crabs, etc, have one thing in common: no interior skeleton. They have exoskeletons. Drop an ant from 2 feet off the ground (which, for a 1/2 inch ant, is 48 times his body length) and he'll be fine. For a human, that'd be analagous to almost 300 feet.
The reason ants and such can survive is because they DON'T have a rigid bone structure. They have a supple, more flexibile exoskeleton.
Of course, on Earth, you don't find invertebrates larger than 6 feet (and even those live on the ocean floor.) This is because gravity prevents exoskeletons from effeciently scaling upwards to large sizes (total surface area [the heavy, armor-like exoskeleton] increases exponentially as size increases.) However, aliens could have lighter exoskeletons with comparable toughness, due to either superior evolution or genetic tampering (storyline? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->)
So the question then, is, Do the aliens have endoskeletons or exoskeletons? Flayra?
I would tend to think they have exoskeletons. They're just more alien that way, and they can have cool abilities like being able to drop off the ceiling safely.
They'll tweak the damage-values by actually playing around zith it, then when they found the valeu that provides the best balance in-game they use that, then they adjust the story 2 that, btw those aliens don't really look like they have an exoskeleton.
Gasfiend
Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
This would result in two diferent out comes on impact from an extremely high distance.
1)The inertia Bob has built up can be handled by his muscles, enabling him to kill the momentum of his body after his claws impact but before the rest of him does, in which case bob walks away with nothing more than chipped nails (and considering those nails are supposed to be punching through concrete and steel so he can climb even them being chiped might not happen).
2)The inertia excedes the ability of those muscles to stop it, in which case the muscles would be ripped from their anchors on the bones which would mean absolutely no momentum would be lost after teh impact of the claws and bob dies in a nice little splat on the floor (or as noodles if he hit a catwalk since the speed which he'd have to have built up would force him straight through the grating)
As far as game mechanics, I say bob should be able to fall at LEAST 5-6 stories with absolutely no damage, but if he falls farther than his "no dammge" heighth he should died instantly.
Another note on this, regardless if my "instant death" idea is used, I think any bob that suffers fatal damage from a fall, instead of simply dieing they should automaticaly self-destruct on impact. It would certainly make them quite a bit more interesting.
Imagine three bobs waiting on a ceiling so high up it practically impossible to make them out, but they can see amrines walk in. then they drop down and go splat-BOOM! Three bobs could easily take out an enitre squad like this. Of course giving the fact that bobs can fall so far without damamge, they will be hard pressed to find a ceiling that high.
This has been brought to you by The American Gas Co.
Gasfiend
Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
And Bob doing a swan dive off of any height into concrete is gonna hurt. Landing on your head is not good. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
For the marines...
<!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
This has been brought to you by The American Gas Co.
Gasfiend
Brave Adventurer of Mindless Insanity and Unconsciousness Inducing Brainwaves!
NS...:)
Anyway, I don't know if Flayra is following this thread anymore, so who knows if this will be implemented. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
"Squishy Marine Head!"
Gasfiend
Consistantly Confounded By Those Who Are Excessive In Their Ignorance!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I do know that in normal HL, falling on a person's head from a great distance = falling onto the ground from a great distance. In other words, death on both counts. I think that this should be reversed. If the aliens do a pounce move onto their prey, from some high-up perch, the one they are pouncing on should receive the damage of Bob's sharp claws punching into his head. In real life, somebody falling off a 3 story building onto a person walking below would usually result in the person below getting flattened, and somewhat cushioning the impact of the guy who fell.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->