<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But gorges are so slow moving! You can easily engage them at a long corridor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cannot easliy engage them in a long hallway. Picture the map is eclipse and you make a left to the keyhole and heading towrads maintance. The gorges appear out of maint. at the other end (thats a pretty decent hallway dont you think?) You start firing, they start healing and close in on you. By your tenth pistol round your going to be dead. I am not saying your a bad shot but out of 7-8 gorges all weaving left and right with the spray going It is going to be uber difficult to pick that gorge of in the back with the small window that you have. Their speed is a blessing and a burden at the same time. Blessing is because the whole group or even the front gorge can assest the situation as the rush develops. Burden is getting from one place to another eg. your rush their base and find out they moved else where. They 2 key factors are range of the spray and that no one expects it. It is not widley used and marines have more important things to do in the first 3 mins of a game rather to wait to see if they gorge rush the base. P.S. How many shots of spit does it take to kill a lvl 0 armor marine? I am just curious thats all. I feel it is a little overpowered but its not a issue due to the fact that its not widley used. Let hope it stays that way.
p.s. not every marine is competant and not every gorge pays attention.
<!--QuoteBegin--STD-SilverWolf+Sep 7 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (STD-SilverWolf @ Sep 7 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sigh, i shouldn't have posted here, i should have posted on the private beta forum. o well, hindsight is 20/20 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No worries, rather frustrating to have to read through 90% of the crap posts to get to the good ones though.
No doubt there are some pretty non-constructive posts here but just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're wrong. The counters that have been brought up *are* effective. Yes, the gorge rush is powerful but counterable. Look at the facts here:
- Gorge rush takes teamwork. Not just +attack (that is a pretty ignorant statement by you in fact). They have to decide to do it, gorge up, stick together, be at the right place etc.
- The *huge* weakness is that it is so slow. Adrenaline gorges move very slow. I have participated in two gorge rushes where the Marines knew it was coming and simply ran the other way to our hive and killed it.
- Mines and shotguns. These things do indeed stop the rush cold. Really. Two packs of mines and a shotgun or two will anihilate a gorge gang.
edit: Oh, and it's 5 spits to kill a lvl0 Marine. Unless he is on, behind, or near a railing, or in a weird corner or place.. then it's a bazillion.
joevGiving grief... With a smile.Join Date: 2002-07-20Member: 977Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Sep 8 2003, 06:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Sep 8 2003, 06:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No doubt there are some pretty non-constructive posts here but just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're wrong. The counters that have been brought up *are* effective. Yes, the gorge rush is powerful but counterable. Look at the facts here:
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
Now that I've cleared out the dreck, this looks like an interesting debate... please keep it so...
And Wolf, most every post left is constructive arguement... I see no reason why you'd be bemoaning it. Just because people disagree with you you should take it to private beta forums? Why?
I think the logical arguement here that I've taken on board certainly is that gorge gangs are uber effective (yeah we've all seen 'em) can be countered and are as risky as marine shotgun rush.
Wonder what'd happen if marines decided to SG rush at the same time as aliens decided to gorge gang....
If a marine team invests in defense at the start, ie. turrets/mines and a shotty guard or two the aliens rush is beaten. However if the comm goes for an early res expansion strat and builds the min of structures, ip, armory, then the rush often works.
Similarly if the marines shotty rush and the aliens go with oc's in the hive, SC as 1st chamber, or maybe only 2 gorges out of an 8 man team. The rush wil fail. But if they go with about 80% of the team gorging for rts off the bat then the rush will work.
And of course for both sides controling the RTs while the other team spends time and res defending base will put you in control of the res and there for the game. When two of the same strats go head to head it's usually just who's quicker about it.
I don't see if being to big a problem. As always good scouting will help you react quicker.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Sep 4 2003, 01:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Sep 4 2003, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--STD-SilverWolf+Sep 3 2003, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (STD-SilverWolf @ Sep 3 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Comparing medspam to healspray is comparing apples to oranges. Healspray is free, medspam is an investment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So are Gorges. They cost 10 res and do you have any Idea how slow RES comes in for a gorge without tonnes of RTS? Med spam is something the commander can do anytime, anywhere, as much as he has the res to do. You need a Gorge, to heal you, its slow with 1 gorge, he cant be everywhere at once and he can be killed!
Comming from a vet, I am very surprized at this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comming from a vet, I am very surprized at this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but statements like these are not constructive arguements, i agree there may be a chance that i am wrong about this but when people make random posts without out even reading through the thread and actually thinking about things it sucks. Like the argument that has been used like 30 times in this thread shotties > gorge gangs. SOOO not true, shotties are only effective at close range they are next to useless at long range, and with the massive range of heal spray you can not close the gap without dying next to instantly thanks to 6 gorges or so healspraying you all at once. Its stuff like that that bothers me.
The fact that it actually works should be taken into consideration though, as many people have on many occasion stopped gorge rushes with shotguns and mines. Or without the, with concentrated fire. 4 lmg Marines or so focusing fire on one gorge will kill it, no matter how much healspray. Takes 22 shots of lvl0 lmg to kill a gorge. 6 LMG shots can be fired in half a second... from four players that means a dead gorge.
"Everyone shoot the gorge on the left"
One dead gorge.
I rarely see a gorge rush succeed when Marines are *expecting* it. That's the real way to tell if a tactic is overpowered or not. Any tactic can be successful if it is unexpected, gorge rushes usually are.
You shouldn't talk about non-constructive comments because you're the source for quite a few. Read your own posts as you read others and you'll see. Several people have made constructive and insightful comments here, debunking your claims, you seem to ignore those and focus on a small amount of people that have made less qualitative comments.
I consider this issue settled. Enough people already agree that a gorge rush is highly stoppable, with an equal or less amount of teamwork then is needed to pull one off. That's good enough for me, plus, I of course know from experience on both sides that it is both powerful (if used right) and stoppable (if countered right), like most tactics.
Sliver I don't understand why Gorge gangs are so impossible to you, they are really easy to stop. I admit that when they start droping OCs as they attack it gets hard, but your statement about needing to get "Really" close for the SG to work is false. The SG can be used "effectivly" at a distance of up to 10 meters. After 10 meters, its no good. I have PWNED 2 or 3 gorges at once with a onslaught of SG blasts before they even got near me, you pull out your pistol and BOOM, 3 dead gorges. Maybe I just have never had a problem with gorges, that my opinion is like this.
im done arguing, i never said that gorge gangs were impossible to defeat i simply said they are overpowered and we need to evaluate their hp / armor. end of story
People who talk all about how they can defeat gorge rushes :
Okay,how often is it that theres only a base guard in base and everyone else is getting RTs?
How often is it that the entire marine team sits in base?
I mean um yea i havent seen any comm say yet "hey guys camp in base just in case they are doing a gorge rush,in which time,they WONT do the gorge rush since they see us all camping here,so they will just get RTs all over the map and get onos at 10 mins and thanks to our precaution,the ONLY way to defeat gorge rushes,we cant tech up,well yea,we cant tech up even if we had half the map's rts in time,and even if we DID,redempt onos is pratically unkillable and we cant defend our RTs from it,because marines are so slow,and then we cant get equipment anymore,and its game over."
I've never seen a gorge rush reach Marine Base without at least 30 seconds warning. Usually a lot more. They are slow. If they manage to get the MB and there is only one Marine there, GG and GJ aliens. You can still use your other Marines to reloc into their hive for example..
6 lmg/shotgun Marines arriving at a hive that has only one skulk in it will kill the hive. Omg. Overpowered. We have to nerf the lmg and shotgun and make it so the Marines are slowed down and start glowing in pink when they move closer to a hive.
A gorge gang moving around on the map is dangerous, bordering on unstoppable early game. Was up against that yesterday. We solved it by running around them to their hive an dkilling it, we lost anyway since the second hive just finished and the aliens had been dominating (with skulks) early game. But the gorge gang situation was dealt with.
Gorges overpowered? Gorges running rampant? What servers are you guys playing on?
Quite simply, this isn't an "end all" tactic like jetpacks used to be for marines. It's counterable, both by good aiming and by any number of tactics already mentioned (shotties, turrets, a READY team, etc). It's not going to be used every round because the other team will be ready for it if it's tried once. It's also very hard to pull off even getting your team organized to that level and SPEED. This thread is pretty much exhausted.
this is not concerning "gorge gangs" but rather gorges in general.
<ul> <li>Spit damage too high <li>Healspray range too great <li>Web should take time to set <li>Buildings should stop auto-building if under fire </ul>
What servers with GODLIKE marines are you playing on?
Btw a shotgun rush is far more liable to fail than a gorge rush because of the following factors :
-Your marines are not being healed by the equavelent of at least 4 healsprays at the same time(to achieve the same kind of healing rate as the gorgs,you would have to be able to multiple-drop medpacks straight onto the marines,impossible of course.)
-Your marines are so much easier to kill than gorges.Skulk sits at corner,bites twice,one 10 res shotgunner down.Repeat all the way back to the hive where you have hive healing and possible DCs(contary to popular belief,not all shotgun blasts at close range is instant kill,just the pointblank ones).If you tried to fight a retreating combat with gorges,it wouldnt work,because you CANNOT hurt them unless you have shotguns.
-Marines are far slower than skulks,and thus,by the time the marines rush back to base,its usally too late.
-Marines cant drop turrets everywhere in the alien hive.
A mix-force of gorges and skulks rushing together would be very difficult to beat.Gorges for godmode,skulks for general havoc and helping to take down marines faster(Even though mass healspray is like a full auto shotty).
Btw,if you have marines that can reloc to their hive in time,I SALUTE YOU.Btw in your example,all 6 mairnes have shottys,a unlikely aspect unless you are doing a shotty rush.Oh yes and if you tried to reloc to their hive,all gorges just skulk back and mass rush your base,and they are being healed by the hive at the same time.....
<!--QuoteBegin--Hunty+Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hunty @ Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (contary to popular belief,not all shotgun blasts at close range is instant kill,just the pointblank ones) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 12 2003, 05:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 12 2003, 05:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Hunty+Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hunty @ Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (contary to popular belief,not all shotgun blasts at close range is instant kill,just the pointblank ones) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It depends on your weapon upgrade + carapace levels. I had to hit a skulk twice in the face until he died. Had level 0 weapons and pretty much assume he had level 3 carapaced and probably a few pellets missed too ^^;. Oh well, one more blast isn't anything to scream about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--ZERG!!+Sep 12 2003, 10:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZERG!! @ Sep 12 2003, 10:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 12 2003, 05:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 12 2003, 05:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Hunty+Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hunty @ Sep 12 2003, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (contary to popular belief,not all shotgun blasts at close range is instant kill,just the pointblank ones) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It depends on your weapon upgrade + carapace levels. I had to hit a skulk twice in the face until he died. Had level 0 weapons and pretty much assume he had level 3 carapaced and probably a few pellets missed too ^^;. Oh well, one more blast isn't anything to scream about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the spread is kinda random. Sometimes one will kill, other times the skulk lives with like 20 hp. If you have lv. 1 upgrades though, you can extend your shooting range even futher.
At medium ranges,a shotgun blasts,assuming 0 weapon upgrades,will not kill the gorg.And the damage would be healed instantly.So you would have to rush the gorge gang,and its a great toss up in the air whether you will get the chance to fire off a pointblank shot before you get sniped by healspray.
The damage isn't healed instantly. Have you ever been in a Gorge Gang? Usually there's a casualty or two even if the Marines *aren't* expecting it, since not everyone will be healed all the time. After one shotgun hit you need a LOT of healing to get back up to full. For a gorge rush the Adrenaline upgrade is imperative, which means no D, which means you are quite fragile. If you get seperated from the gang, you're dead, if you're at the back and a Marine comes up behind you, you're dead. If the Marines decide to focus fire on you and you can't shake them, you're dead. If you run over a mine or get hit by a shotgun, you're having a near-death experience at least.
You also can't stop the reloc to your hive by going skulk. By the time you're finished gestating and start running, the hive will be dead. The only way to stop it is to hope that one of the gorges has 10 res so they can drop a Movement chamber wherever you are. And usually that doesn't work either because this is how a hive reloc works:
One Marine builds the CC while Marine base is dying. Com drops IP's. Marines start spawning in hive and do NOTHING until they are all there, then they ALL open fire. Hive dead in a couple of seconds. Much less time then it takes to drop a Move chamber or run back. GG
Here's a test:
Next time you are playing, let the Marine team know that you will be doing a gorge rush. See if it works. I'm guessing you will ether run into mines/shotguns/turrets, or the Marines will be rushing your hive.
How about insta-web? I think that's overpowered. Once they get webs the marine team is finished with no chance of comeback, because any team can be immobilized by insta-web (not already-set webs, but gorges spraying webs at the feet of enemies and immobilizing them instantly).
I think webs should take 2 seconds to "set," if they are tripped before that they disappear.
<!--QuoteBegin--Maveric+Sep 13 2003, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Sep 13 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>WEAPON UPGRADES + HMG = GORGIE KILLAZ!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you need upgraded HMGs to take on Gorges, you aren't a very good marine. LMGs and pistols will suffice.
<!--QuoteBegin--MagiTek+Sep 5 2003, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MagiTek @ Sep 5 2003, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gorge gangs require teamwork and a decent amount of coordination. The counters to gorge gangs require teamwork and a decent amount of coordination. I have no complaints. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I really have to dissagree with this. Giving three marines (Assuming its four gorges) shotguns, telling them to stick together, and destroy the gorge gang, doesnt take <b>nearly</b> as much coordination as a gorge gang, all those three have to do is run into the gorge gang head first and hold down the trigger, aiming relitivly in their direction. Gorge gangs really dont stand a chance against shotguns if you use them correctaly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Sep 12 2003, 11:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Sep 12 2003, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One Marine builds the CC while Marine base is dying. Com drops IP's. Marines start spawning in hive and do NOTHING until they are all there, then they ALL open fire. Hive dead in a couple of seconds... GG <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> good times
Only thing you can actually do about a gore rush is t ostand back and shoot at the first gorge with pistols and lmgs, to keep em from geting anywhere, while 1 or 2 marines run around doing the real stuff(maybe relocating) which makes aliens waste 2 weeks killing a cc with gorges..
Why would you have a siege in your base? On th eoff chance that they gorge rush you are going to build a TF, upgrade it and drop siege? One word comes to mind.. eject.
What version are you playing?? The tf in base is just so that i can electrify nodes(I don't waste res on turrets), then it only costs 30 res for a seige gun and 15 for a second one if nessecary.
Comments
You cannot easliy engage them in a long hallway. Picture the map is eclipse and you make a left to the keyhole and heading towrads maintance. The gorges appear out of maint. at the other end (thats a pretty decent hallway dont you think?) You start firing, they start healing and close in on you. By your tenth pistol round your going to be dead. I am not saying your a bad shot but out of 7-8 gorges all weaving left and right with the spray going It is going to be uber difficult to pick that gorge of in the back with the small window that you have. Their speed is a blessing and a burden at the same time. Blessing is because the whole group or even the front gorge can assest the situation as the rush develops. Burden is getting from one place to another eg. your rush their base and find out they moved else where. They 2 key factors are range of the spray and that no one expects it. It is not widley used and marines have more important things to do in the first 3 mins of a game rather to wait to see if they gorge rush the base. P.S. How many shots of spit does it take to kill a lvl 0 armor marine? I am just curious thats all. I feel it is a little overpowered but its not a issue due to the fact that its not widley used. Let hope it stays that way.
p.s. not every marine is competant and not every gorge pays attention.
No worries, rather frustrating to have to read through 90% of the crap posts to get to the good ones though.
- Gorge rush takes teamwork. Not just +attack (that is a pretty ignorant statement by you in fact). They have to decide to do it, gorge up, stick together, be at the right place etc.
- The *huge* weakness is that it is so slow. Adrenaline gorges move very slow. I have participated in two gorge rushes where the Marines knew it was coming and simply ran the other way to our hive and killed it.
- Mines and shotguns. These things do indeed stop the rush cold. Really. Two packs of mines and a shotgun or two will anihilate a gorge gang.
edit: Oh, and it's 5 spits to kill a lvl0 Marine. Unless he is on, behind, or near a railing, or in a weird corner or place.. then it's a bazillion.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
Now that I've cleared out the dreck, this looks like an interesting debate... please keep it so...
And Wolf, most every post left is constructive arguement... I see no reason why you'd be bemoaning it. Just because people disagree with you you should take it to private beta forums? Why?
I think the logical arguement here that I've taken on board certainly is that gorge gangs are uber effective (yeah we've all seen 'em) can be countered and are as risky as marine shotgun rush.
Wonder what'd happen if marines decided to SG rush at the same time as aliens decided to gorge gang....
RUSH RACE!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
joev.
Defense > Rush
Expansion > Defense
A rule of thumb for most RTS games.
If a marine team invests in defense at the start, ie. turrets/mines and a shotty guard or two the aliens rush is beaten.
However if the comm goes for an early res expansion strat and builds the min of structures, ip, armory, then the rush often works.
Similarly if the marines shotty rush and the aliens go with oc's in the hive, SC as 1st chamber, or maybe only 2 gorges out of an 8 man team. The rush wil fail.
But if they go with about 80% of the team gorging for rts off the bat then the rush will work.
And of course for both sides controling the RTs while the other team spends time and res defending base will put you in control of the res and there for the game. When two of the same strats go head to head it's usually just who's quicker about it.
I don't see if being to big a problem. As always good scouting will help you react quicker.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So are Gorges.
They cost 10 res and do you have any Idea how slow RES comes in for a gorge without tonnes of RTS?
Med spam is something the commander can do anytime, anywhere, as much as he has the res to do.
You need a Gorge, to heal you, its slow with 1 gorge, he cant be everywhere at once and he can be killed!
Comming from a vet, I am very surprized at this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comming from a vet, I am very surprized at this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but statements like these are not constructive arguements, i agree there may be a chance that i am wrong about this but when people make random posts without out even reading through the thread and actually thinking about things it sucks. Like the argument that has been used like 30 times in this thread shotties > gorge gangs. SOOO not true, shotties are only effective at close range they are next to useless at long range, and with the massive range of heal spray you can not close the gap without dying next to instantly thanks to 6 gorges or so healspraying you all at once. Its stuff like that that bothers me.
"Everyone shoot the gorge on the left"
One dead gorge.
I rarely see a gorge rush succeed when Marines are *expecting* it. That's the real way to tell if a tactic is overpowered or not. Any tactic can be successful if it is unexpected, gorge rushes usually are.
You shouldn't talk about non-constructive comments because you're the source for quite a few. Read your own posts as you read others and you'll see. Several people have made constructive and insightful comments here, debunking your claims, you seem to ignore those and focus on a small amount of people that have made less qualitative comments.
I consider this issue settled. Enough people already agree that a gorge rush is highly stoppable, with an equal or less amount of teamwork then is needed to pull one off. That's good enough for me, plus, I of course know from experience on both sides that it is both powerful (if used right) and stoppable (if countered right), like most tactics.
Now the JP/knife rush on the other hand..
I admit that when they start droping OCs as they attack it gets hard, but your statement about needing to get "Really" close for the SG to work is false.
The SG can be used "effectivly" at a distance of up to 10 meters. After 10 meters, its no good.
I have PWNED 2 or 3 gorges at once with a onslaught of SG blasts before they even got near me, you pull out your pistol and BOOM, 3 dead gorges.
Maybe I just have never had a problem with gorges, that my opinion is like this.
Okay,how often is it that theres only a base guard in base and everyone else is getting RTs?
How often is it that the entire marine team sits in base?
I mean um yea i havent seen any comm say yet "hey guys camp in base just in case they are doing a gorge rush,in which time,they WONT do the gorge rush since they see us all camping here,so they will just get RTs all over the map and get onos at 10 mins and thanks to our precaution,the ONLY way to defeat gorge rushes,we cant tech up,well yea,we cant tech up even if we had half the map's rts in time,and even if we DID,redempt onos is pratically unkillable and we cant defend our RTs from it,because marines are so slow,and then we cant get equipment anymore,and its game over."
6 lmg/shotgun Marines arriving at a hive that has only one skulk in it will kill the hive. Omg. Overpowered. We have to nerf the lmg and shotgun and make it so the Marines are slowed down and start glowing in pink when they move closer to a hive.
A gorge gang moving around on the map is dangerous, bordering on unstoppable early game. Was up against that yesterday. We solved it by running around them to their hive an dkilling it, we lost anyway since the second hive just finished and the aliens had been dominating (with skulks) early game. But the gorge gang situation was dealt with.
Quite simply, this isn't an "end all" tactic like jetpacks used to be for marines. It's counterable, both by good aiming and by any number of tactics already mentioned (shotties, turrets, a READY team, etc). It's not going to be used every round because the other team will be ready for it if it's tried once. It's also very hard to pull off even getting your team organized to that level and SPEED. This thread is pretty much exhausted.
<ul>
<li>Spit damage too high
<li>Healspray range too great
<li>Web should take time to set
<li>Buildings should stop auto-building if under fire
</ul>
that's what I think.
Btw a shotgun rush is far more liable to fail than a gorge rush because of the following factors :
-Your marines are not being healed by the equavelent of at least 4 healsprays at the same time(to achieve the same kind of healing rate as the gorgs,you would have to be able to multiple-drop medpacks straight onto the marines,impossible of course.)
-Your marines are so much easier to kill than gorges.Skulk sits at corner,bites twice,one 10 res shotgunner down.Repeat all the way back to the hive where you have hive healing and possible DCs(contary to popular belief,not all shotgun blasts at close range is instant kill,just the pointblank ones).If you tried to fight a retreating combat with gorges,it wouldnt work,because you CANNOT hurt them unless you have shotguns.
-Marines are far slower than skulks,and thus,by the time the marines rush back to base,its usally too late.
-Marines cant drop turrets everywhere in the alien hive.
A mix-force of gorges and skulks rushing together would be very difficult to beat.Gorges for godmode,skulks for general havoc and helping to take down marines faster(Even though mass healspray is like a full auto shotty).
Btw,if you have marines that can reloc to their hive in time,I SALUTE YOU.Btw in your example,all 6 mairnes have shottys,a unlikely aspect unless you are doing a shotty rush.Oh yes and if you tried to reloc to their hive,all gorges just skulk back and mass rush your base,and they are being healed by the hive at the same time.....
Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.
Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It depends on your weapon upgrade + carapace levels. I had to hit a skulk twice in the face until he died. Had level 0 weapons and pretty much assume he had level 3 carapaced and probably a few pellets missed too ^^;. Oh well, one more blast isn't anything to scream about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Wrong.
Up to a medium range with the shotty, you can deal the nessesary 110 damage to kill a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It depends on your weapon upgrade + carapace levels. I had to hit a skulk twice in the face until he died. Had level 0 weapons and pretty much assume he had level 3 carapaced and probably a few pellets missed too ^^;. Oh well, one more blast isn't anything to scream about. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the spread is kinda random. Sometimes one will kill, other times the skulk lives with like 20 hp. If you have lv. 1 upgrades though, you can extend your shooting range even futher.
You also can't stop the reloc to your hive by going skulk. By the time you're finished gestating and start running, the hive will be dead. The only way to stop it is to hope that one of the gorges has 10 res so they can drop a Movement chamber wherever you are. And usually that doesn't work either because this is how a hive reloc works:
One Marine builds the CC while Marine base is dying. Com drops IP's. Marines start spawning in hive and do NOTHING until they are all there, then they ALL open fire. Hive dead in a couple of seconds. Much less time then it takes to drop a Move chamber or run back. GG
Here's a test:
Next time you are playing, let the Marine team know that you will be doing a gorge rush. See if it works. I'm guessing you will ether run into mines/shotguns/turrets, or the Marines will be rushing your hive.
I think that's overpowered. Once they get webs the marine team is finished with no chance of comeback, because any team can be immobilized by insta-web (not already-set webs, but gorges spraying webs at the feet of enemies and immobilizing them instantly).
I think webs should take 2 seconds to "set," if they are tripped before that they disappear.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>WEAPON UPGRADES + HMG = GORGIE KILLAZ!</span>
That is all.
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If you need upgraded HMGs to take on Gorges, you aren't a very good marine. LMGs and pistols will suffice.
I really have to dissagree with this. Giving three marines (Assuming its four gorges) shotguns, telling them to stick together, and destroy the gorge gang, doesnt take <b>nearly</b> as much coordination as a gorge gang, all those three have to do is run into the gorge gang head first and hold down the trigger, aiming relitivly in their direction. Gorge gangs really dont stand a chance against shotguns if you use them correctaly.
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good times