Hugging walls and ladders
<div class="IPBDescription">Will those bugs be fixed?</div>We all know of the bug that makes you go faster if you "hug" the walls and the ladders, now I wonder if this will be fixed in ns? I have seen both of them removed so it is possible, It's just so annoying and unrealistic that you run faster when you are sticking to a wall or ladder :/
And if it's not out in the first release will it be considered for future releases?
Thanks.
And if it's not out in the first release will it be considered for future releases?
Thanks.
Comments
<!--me&Raptor091288--><span id='ME'><center>Raptor091288 wants wall-hugging and b-hopping to be out, along with ladder-hugging, if its possible</center></span><!--e-me-->
Ladder speed is reduced in NS anyway. No more zooming up ladders...it takes a little longer now.
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-PD
Oooohhh the possibilitys.
It is stupid, almost as stupid as the spec hack. Almost.
I think bunnyhopping should get a kick and spec hacking should be a permaban myself.. but then again I have no server or admining powers of any kind. I have a low tolerance for exploiters or outright cheaters. I don't really see running against the wall to be some sort of tactic.. I have never seen anyone do it. And I don't know what you mean by ladders increasing speed.. if you mean going up it makes you go faster, that is true.. but that only does anything on a map full of ladders.
Running from a hive to the marine spawn on ns_bast it got me there approx one second faster. Which is about a 3% increase. As I said, its hardly a factor. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I'd like to see someone try and wallhug down here <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
<!--EDIT|Moleculor|July 31 2002,16:59-->
As everyone knows now, Im a TFC player and I say Bunny hopping and wall strafing rules.
In a clan match it would be impossible to cap without these FEATURES, matches would play at a crawl and it wouldnt have the community it does today.
Its hardly a cheat, it takes skill and practice, its something that only the very best players can use properly. In a match its quite difficult to have that much speed in a DM, it doesnt work like that. Its made for you to travel quickly really, its possible to get past people with it but not the best players, only the average ones and if you can BH past them you can certainly kill them easily. It just speeds it up and means the nme def dont spend their whole life in the respawn.
Besides, as Fam said it makes little difference in NS. Why? Well just look at that screenie posted below, this isnt the kind of game that has lots of smooth walls, open spaces and things.
Also, whats wrong with ladder hugging? So what if its not realistic, who wants to climb ladders! Ladders are only in games because a lift or air... booster thingy arent always appropriate. Give me one good reason other than "its not realistic" (which is a rubbish reason) for why ladder hugging is bad.
"Exploiting medic" Tick? No, skilled. Can you bunny hop? I can almost do it, takes alot of skill and a fairly good ping.
I know exactly what wall hugging is, but what, specifically, is bunnyhopping? I had always thought it was just the obvious, but it sounds like there's more to it than that.
I know exactly what wall hugging is, but what, specifically, is bunnyhopping? I had always thought it was just the obvious, but it sounds like there's more to it than that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is an EXPLOIT of the engine. It is a combination of running, jumping, and strafing all together. Because of the game engine physics, it accelerates the players to intense speeds. It makes the HWG go twice as fast as a scout, for example.
But in public servers, games played for fun, what exactly is the point of launching a bit off a ladder to get a speed boost, strafing against a wall to speed up, or stafejumping all over the map at crazy speeds? Is it fun? Maybe for powergamerflagcappers.
Fun Bugs/Exploits:
1. Conc Jumping (was not planned as a boost upwards)
2. RJing (was not planned as a boost upwards)
3. Green/Yellow spy bug.
4. Flamethrower/ACannon from crowbar bug.
5. Living Corpse Underwater Reload Bug.
Ehh.. Bugs/Exploits:
1. Wall Strafing.
2. Spy Burrowing.
3. Ladder boosting.
Bad Bugs/Exploits:
1. Dropping grenades and switching teams.
2. Building multiple SG bases.
3. Spy server crashing bug.
4. Spec hacking.
5. Bunnyhopping.
6. Instant Detpack Exploding.
7. Instant Greenpipe Detting.
Those are a few, as I feel about it. Just about everything else requires an external program.. and 90% of the time it is bad (auto-aiming, wall hacking).
Well with wallhugging comes another bug where you press the strife buttons very fast so that you accelerate, would make you move just as fast as wallhugging and it would work in that corridor <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
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what exactly is the point of launching a bit off a ladder to get a speed boost, strafing against a wall to speed up, or stafejumping all over the map at crazy speeds? Is it fun? Maybe for powergamerflagcappers.
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The point is for your team to win. I do hope your not one of those people who hates flag cappers "stop capping the flag, your not supposed to do that, everyone is supposed to be a soldier and shoot each other!". I hate that, the point of the game is
1) to have fun
2) to win
You win by getting more flags than the enemy simple as that. Having fun... well, that comes from just playing the game and having a laugh with your mates online, I dont see how bunny hopping stops that.
The only time bunny hopping ruins the game is when your really _really_ bad at the game and get owned majorly. As I said, someone who can do it properly will own you if your rubbish whether they BH or not. The only difference is that youll get to be alive for a few seconds longer before he reaches you and kills you yet again.
Now could you explain to everyone how _exactly_ it is less fun if someone bunny hops? So far you have made to posts saying your opinion of it but you havent backed it up with any factual evidence... hold on, I will read your posts yet again...
Nope, sorry, nothing.
BunnyHopping IS fun, it makes the game faster paced and more frenetic. It also adds a new level of skill into the game. More complicated tricks and concs are possible, more impressive caps and such which everyone has to admit are fun otherwise there wouldnt be concmaps dedicated to it.
Oh, its also no longer possible for an HW to BH twice as fast as a scout as valve has capped it to shut all the whiners up... though there is now a hook called nemesis (which I wouldnt touch with a bargepole but is allowed in many leagues) which can bring BH back to its original power and many people use it as its so much fun.
Have you ever tried to use an HW going that fast? Its practically useless unless you are god at TFC as one slight mistake, one slight jolt and you are stranded in enemy territory going at a crawl. BHing is hardly an instant thing you know, it took time to get to any fast speeds and an HW took even longer than the other classes. HW's are best on defense and BHing is fairly useless on def, it just helps you get back to your post faster and it takes so little time to get back into position anyway that it makes very little difference.
Now, for those that dont know, bunny hopping is ...
Have you all heard of strafe jumping? Where you jump in a certain way to gain speed, only a tiny amount but its a slight difference. Well if you do a strafe jump and just as you hit the ground you push jump you can maintain that slight speed increase, if you manage to chain a number of strafe jumps in a row then the speed is all added together to make a noticable difference (note, still not twice as fast as a scout or anything ludicrous like that, just fast enough to be useful, like the difference between pyro and scout, notice how in matches its very rare that you get any attacker other than scout and medic because they are so much faster, no matter how good a BHer you are).
Of course its very difficult to maintain this speed and even more difficult to direct it. Try navigating any map in jumps alone bearing in mind that a BHer has to maintain his momentum so cant jump in certain ways, a BH'ers movement is limited to certain directions only (although the best BHers can almost make 90-120 degree turns, sometimes even more with luck, still impossible to turn 180).
Now of course, with your movement limited its even tougher to dodge rockets and things and a soldier can predict where your going to be even easier so against tough soldiers it can improve your chances of being hit.
Bleh, wrists hurt. Anyway, I challenge anyone to come up with any good reasons why Bunny hopping is bad. Tick, try and back up your arguments with facts.
This topic has been argued sooooo many times on TFC forums everywhere that I know most of the arguments going and, if neccesary, can direct you to a few of them.
lol, and ive not even started on BHing in other games like quake3a... or skiing in tribes which, if I use the same twisted logic that has so far been shown, is just as bad because its not something the original programmers designed into the game.
Oh, and in NS the marines go slower anyway, difficult to get any kind of acceleration with loads of guns and ammo and the maps would be really difficult. Not to mention the fact that a BHing marine would find it harder to shoot, a marines guns being the only thing that protects him from the aliens. Running away wont help as they are all faster.
That said, I don't like bunnyhopping either. It looks silly, and it makes people more difficult to hit than it should be, especially when they lag.
Um, there *is* some kind of stamina in NS to prevent excessive jumping I hope? Else this won't be the first mod turning into a bunnyfest, especially since the aliens have mostly melee attacks. The marines *will* jump like crazy to evade them.
There are scripts but they just make it slightly easier to time your jumps and therefore maintain momentum. Its still quite difficult and takes alot of practice as you have to get the turning right. Its alot easier said (and written) than done.
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Listen.
You wont need to worry about it in NS.
You wont be able to change anyones opinions on whats 'Right and Wrong' in games. You just can't. People, in general, are so self centered on them selves and being correct all the time, they don't open thier minds to the possibility they <b>could</b> be wrong...
I've had a person (quite a few actually) telling me that cheats are an ok thing to have because they make it fair for players with modems, slow computers, crapy skills ...blah blah blah.
What ever.
Care to explain? Let's assume a Lvl1 attacks me, and I start to jump around like crazy so he can't bite me, all the while firing in his general direction. What happens?
I only ask because I'm slightly annoyed to see excessive jumping in mods where it just doesn't fit. DoD for example... when somebody opens fire at you, taking a giant leap in the air just shouldn't be your best option.
Listen.
You wont need to worry about it in NS.
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I cant explain, because I'm not sure what info I may give out that I'm not supposed to.
Just chill, Flayra is a smart man and he pays attention. I'm sure hes been playing games for quite along time and understands the problems in todays games.
As a medic I often infect people
Spies often stab people
All these things are done against people who are bouncing round.
That is your opinion, and alot of us do not share it at all. While one must realise that if you like realism it isnt adviced to play TFC, AvP or even CS. DoD is the closest I know of, and when playing with friends BH and cheats are thrown away and u play the game as it was intended, as WE enjoy it.
Why don't I like BH and any form of x-hugging precedures?
It gives the player an advantage over the others, not by experience, but by a bug in the programming. I would love to see a navy seal jump like that in order to gain speed over his foes, or run along a wall to gain those extra cm/s.
While realism is a good building "stone" for games, it is hard to make such games fun without anything...slighty unrealistic. DoD manages this fairly well and maps such as overlord really works well. CS, however has this bad habbit of attracting new mappers to come up with maps consisting of a cube, 45 grenades and weapons spread all over and..lets not forget, the wall in the middle.
NS is still in an early stage and many bugs and new "cheats" will prolly be found, its just the fact that there are people enjoying using them for their advantage.
If it was a way to eliminate BH, x-hugging things, cheats etc, I wouldn't do that, I would just remove the ones enjoying to use them to get what they presume is "skill" so they can get more frags, get the flag faster, constantly advancing the score tablets. Cheats is perfect for mapbuilding, bug testing etc, but when used against someone playing on pure experience and skill, owning this someone, tell me where the fun is?
A BH:er are, in my eyes, no matter the game, a cheater and I hate cheaters.. they are the "scum of the universe" and I would never play a game with them if I could avoid it.
People talk about skill and how "good a person is if they can use BH".. Would u say the same about someone dropping a nuke "just bcuz he can"? I respect someone if they can shoot the middle dot out of an target from 300 yards with a glock using a full metal jacket bullet without scaring the rest of the target, but someone using ak to blast away the entire target, would not impress me much.
Fun, to me isnt running at 500mph gunz blazing, it is with precision and teamplay securing your positions and accomplishing your mission with minimal loss.
NOT take the simple way, just bcuz it is there...
So, in short, BH is NOT funny.. IMO that is.