A Rant About Mmorpgs
Nefilim
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19222Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19222Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Not all that they're cracked up to be</div> You know, many RPG fans play RPGs for the stories and characters. Very seldom do you have someone who genuinely just loves to level characters by monotonously mashing the "Fight" option, only to use the various skills and magic against some bosses. Very rarely does the battle system change, and no matter WHAT you do to the system - it's going to get old. A typical RPG lasts over 25 hours, that's more than enough time for anyone to get sick of a battle system. Unless RPGs go the ways of "Final Fantasy Tactics," I doubt that battle systems will -ever- be interesting.
So what's left for the MMORPG? Sure, you can play with your friends... but what fun is playing a game with your friends if it isn't fun in the first place? Trading gear... What fun is that? True, there are people who're hung up on real-life inadequacies and try to make up for their lack in a game by dominating other players who're there to have fun, but seldom is it "fun" to spend hundreds of hours of your life trying to gather rare pieces of equipment for the sole purpose of mashing an attack on another, lesser-equiped character.
I was browsing a website, with all of the talk of Final Fantasy XI, which I thoroughly don't look forward to, and I saw this: "I like FFXI for the endless story."
Endless story!? What story!? Once you get all of your equipment, there's really nothing else to do in the game except for rush friends through levels and player kill. In order to have your story, you need characters. I'm sorry, but having a bunch of people looking like wizards and knights aren't characters - they're players in a game who just appear to be characters. Almost the entire playerbase doesn't know how to "role play," making a "massive multiplayer online role playing game" an oxymoron. Role playing means that you make a seperate identity that has a personality and motives of its own, and most players aren't even that close to being creative or interesting. A senator of a kingdom would never say "omg dude, trade u that gold crown for 50000g and my scepter!!11one"
Hence, the thesis of "multiplayer RPG" is total crap. I don't know why this genre keeps booming. The console "RPG" genre (which really shouldn't even be called an RPG, since it's usually linear gameplay) should be left single player. I can garuntee you that a console RPG wouldn't sell for **** if the introduction of the game was "ill rush u to lev25 if u send $10 to my paypal account"
So what's left for the MMORPG? Sure, you can play with your friends... but what fun is playing a game with your friends if it isn't fun in the first place? Trading gear... What fun is that? True, there are people who're hung up on real-life inadequacies and try to make up for their lack in a game by dominating other players who're there to have fun, but seldom is it "fun" to spend hundreds of hours of your life trying to gather rare pieces of equipment for the sole purpose of mashing an attack on another, lesser-equiped character.
I was browsing a website, with all of the talk of Final Fantasy XI, which I thoroughly don't look forward to, and I saw this: "I like FFXI for the endless story."
Endless story!? What story!? Once you get all of your equipment, there's really nothing else to do in the game except for rush friends through levels and player kill. In order to have your story, you need characters. I'm sorry, but having a bunch of people looking like wizards and knights aren't characters - they're players in a game who just appear to be characters. Almost the entire playerbase doesn't know how to "role play," making a "massive multiplayer online role playing game" an oxymoron. Role playing means that you make a seperate identity that has a personality and motives of its own, and most players aren't even that close to being creative or interesting. A senator of a kingdom would never say "omg dude, trade u that gold crown for 50000g and my scepter!!11one"
Hence, the thesis of "multiplayer RPG" is total crap. I don't know why this genre keeps booming. The console "RPG" genre (which really shouldn't even be called an RPG, since it's usually linear gameplay) should be left single player. I can garuntee you that a console RPG wouldn't sell for **** if the introduction of the game was "ill rush u to lev25 if u send $10 to my paypal account"
Comments
I would have to agree, Gemstone 3 centers solely around role-playing since the actually game mechanics stop you from being able to constantly hunt and level.
And if your crazy enough to shell out $40.00 a month for the platinum version you'll get the most in depth roleplaying experience money can buy.
Enough plugging.
www.gemstone.net
all the info at above link.
But yes Secret of Mana and FF on SNES were the last truely impressive RPGs, everything now is just eyecandy.
I mean Dues Ex was more of an RPG than FF10.
As for new RPGs sucking... it's all about money these days. Game devs are so hard-pressed to compete with other developers that they'll stoop to anything to appease mass market. Example: tons of new games are have a stereotypical, ditzy, big-breasted woman as the lead character for all of the horny little kids. I liked it better when you had the overly masculine, bad-**** hero like Cloud, Sabin, Shadow, Fei, Citan, or Cecil instead of crap like Yuna, Rikku, and Shion. That's why I think the best games are the ones that are usually free, where the creator puts his vision into it instead of being hard-pressed to meet a demand.
dude, humanity has been around foralmost a ten-pack of millinia, EVERYTHING has been done in some permutation...
It's the twists that make things seem different.
dude, humanity has been around foralmost a ten-pack of millinia, EVERYTHING has been done in some permutation...
It's the twists that make things seem different. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mean the typical tale of the boy who's village was burned down by trolls and he grew up to become a paladin or the champion of light who just became evil all of the sudden, without rhyme or reason. Boring stuff. I know people can come up with something different than these very limited scenarios.
I had an Idea for an RPG, and it's very dynamic... I'm not sure I'll actually be able to pull any percentage of it off with RM2K, simply because I want it to be that freaking dynamic...
I want at least 8 endings, and a highly branching plot that actually changes who is the final boss. Even one or two in which the "hero" turns to the dark side, and you spend the remainder of the game being evil.
I've been working on thinking out the reasons for the plot, the reasons for everything. No real plot devices running rampant... other than the initial kick in the pants.
I had the demo someplace, but I fear it's either (A) been corropted by the viri that my computer used to have, or (B) horribly out of date...
Personally, I find that a correctly authored MMORPG can be very fun, and when playing with friends, or meeting new ones, can be more fun that offline games can. Social inadequacies maybe, for some, but there are others who would rather chat and talk online than try and choose the correct line for an AI character. Better than paper RPG's, in that they are visual, and they encourage the founding of new friendships over a closed group.
Of course, there are some people who will abuse either the game for personal reasons, or abuse themselves for the game addiction, but we do not blame coffee manufacturers for people with caffiene addictions, do we?
The boundaries of genres are blending, and this is something we must, and should, embrace. It will only make games better in the future. Don't live in the past. Pens are dead, long live the mouse.
LOL I remember going into Gemstone3 when I first got the internet (AOHell) and it was in the "games" section.
I got into it and was like "ok so what is this game" and like 10 people went "game? what game? what are you talking about"
Then i left and never went back <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I got into it and was like "ok so what is this game" and like 10 people went "game? what game? what are you talking about" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, now I want to try it. That sounds like they have an awesome community, which is really the key thing.
I've avoided MMORPGs because of their boringness and their cost, perhaps there are some that are better now.
But there has to a way to model real life society. For instance the first thing I wanted to try on UOnline was forming a gang of highwaymen to rob and assault people. Build our own stronghold out in the boonies, and launch raids against the cities. I was informed that this is not quite feasible.
I know there have been games where each server had a portal of sorts to another server. Imagine, for instance, that each server is its own planetary system. You fly around and do whatever. Then just jump to other servers.
I really wish there was a sort of NS Space Piracy, where you and your crew could pilot a ship like Bast to loot, pillage, and destroy across the stars. Do whatever you want. You could be the cops; you could fight on the frontier; you could try attacking the capital. Aliens could attach to your ship, you could undertake boarding actions to assault other ships. You could have to catch/disable the other ship, pilot your ship into docking position, and figure out a way to break in. I foresee a game of this sorts in the future.. it will surely come. And I will be there
Endless story!? What story!? Once you get all of your equipment, there's really nothing else to do in the game except for rush friends through levels and player kill. In order to have your story, you need characters. I'm sorry, but having a bunch of people looking like wizards and knights aren't characters - they're players in a game who just appear to be characters. Almost the entire playerbase doesn't know how to "role play," making a "massive multiplayer online role playing game" an oxymoron. Role playing means that you make a seperate identity that has a personality and motives of its own, and most players aren't even that close to being creative or interesting. A senator of a kingdom would never say "omg dude, trade u that gold crown for 50000g and my scepter!!11one" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a FFXI beta tester, I can safely say that FFXI *DOES* have a story. If you want to follow the story, that is. It's like a singleplayer game IN a multiplayer game, and you can have HUGE parties take on missions. (Lemme see... 5 people per party, 5 parties, alliance all 5 parties... Yeah, that's a big party.) FFXI just doesn't feel like any other MMORPG. Also, there is no player killing in FFXI. There will be a player fighting arena, eventually, but no player killing. Don't say bad things about FFXI until you've played it, there IS a story. It's also VERY fun to follow.
It's not JUST the servers. They have to keep paying the staff to work on it, and if it's a multi-billion dollar corporation, they're probably publishing more than just ONE game, so they have to pay other staffs, and then they have to pay for marketing... After the release of a MMO, it's AGES before they start making a profit.
1. Quest based gaming system. The game isn't about character pumping, its about exploring, meeting people, and battles. You create your own storyline. In its simpliest form, its "yeah, I took my dwarf to the Frozen Throne ruins and my party fought a 10000hp wendigo." At the deepest level, its "Bronzebeard Buzzgrog and his party of..."
2. Persistent but changing world. Blizzard left a Cliffhanger in the Frozen throne. The Humans have been conquered in Azeroth and much of Lorderon by the Scourge. WoW will have players taking part in active changes to the Warcraft Universe.
3. Instancing. Blizzard is totally removing item camping. How? First, only players in a specific quest can get quest items dropped by important monsters. Second, important areas are instanced, meaning the only people allowed in the generation of that part of the world are in the same party.
Plus, its Warcraft! Orcs, humans, tauren! Night Elves, Blood Elves, PANDAREN! (they better make the Pandaren a playable race. I want to be Kento Darkale: Pandaren Brewmaster.
Better hope it's not just another instance of Rat Hunter 3d, like the other MMORPGs.
A) You don't care about roleplaying
B) You DO care about roleplaying, but can accept the fact while this game calls itself an RPG, it ain't one
C) You are able to find some people that you like spending lots of time talking with
D) You have the money to spend (and are willing to do it)
E) You can find a character class that you enjoy playing
In UO, I failed at point B. The game looked too much like an RPG, but the actual RPGing was so disappointing that I soon gave up on it. The freeshards generally had too many technical issues to be fun. Lagging out and having to restart every five minutes gets trite pretty fast.
In DAoC, I initially failed at point E. The character I REALLY wanted to play was the assassin, and groups wouldn't like me (and since when does an assassin join groups anyway?). Unfortunately, as I found out, DAoC is very group-oriented (why did they even bother to put assassins in the game then?). Next was a general warrior-kinda dude. Aka "tank". Bash the mob, get healed by the healer. Bash the mob some more, get healed some more. Have your healer killed, wait around for five minutes while he trudges back to the group from the last bindpoint (or better yet "Uh-oh, I forgot to bind at the last town. I'm in Midgard right now." Either the group dissolves, or you wait for fifteen minutes while he returns). Yay. Trite. Since the game quickly got boring, I eventually failed exercise C, the social aspect, as I spent less and less time on the game. When I finally found my character, a healer, I had no-one left to play with. Great.
I think the only one left calling them MMORPGs are the ranters and ill-informed people. The rest of us has just resigned to calling them "MMOGS", leaving out the role playing bit. Persistant world is another. Yet you cannot look away from the large social dimension in those games that build up, totally absent in off-line games. The role people play is actually less defined by the plasticity of the onlinegame (ie. we're brawny barbarians and buxom bussomed babes in miniscule outfits in a parody of the medieval times) but regardign their individual social roles. The roleplaying bit does hold some merit. Just not in the traditional sense of a gamemaster leading a make-believe game of the imagination (often supported by tomes and dice).
IT's also easier on the tongue. MMORPG? Mmm-mo-porg? Mmm-mo-re-pag?
MMOG just goes "Mm-mog" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Endless story!? What story!? Once you get all of your equipment, there's really nothing else to do in the game except for rush friends through levels and player kill. In order to have your story, you need characters. I'm sorry, but having a bunch of people looking like wizards and knights aren't characters - they're players in a game who just appear to be characters. Almost the entire playerbase doesn't know how to "role play," making a "massive multiplayer online role playing game" an oxymoron. Role playing means that you make a seperate identity that has a personality and motives of its own, and most players aren't even that close to being creative or interesting. A senator of a kingdom would never say "omg dude, trade u that gold crown for 50000g and my scepter!!11one" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a FFXI beta tester, I can safely say that FFXI *DOES* have a story. If you want to follow the story, that is. It's like a singleplayer game IN a multiplayer game, and you can have HUGE parties take on missions. (Lemme see... 5 people per party, 5 parties, alliance all 5 parties... Yeah, that's a big party.) FFXI just doesn't feel like any other MMORPG. Also, there is no player killing in FFXI. There will be a player fighting arena, eventually, but no player killing. Don't say bad things about FFXI until you've played it, there IS a story. It's also VERY fun to follow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it didn't have a story at all, I said it didn't have an "endless" one as advertised. Diablo 2 also had a story - but when people finished the campaign, there was absolutely nothing left to do but player kill and collect gear. Most of the FFXI playerbase is going to be barely literate, casual internet users who still use lazy abbreviations in their speech - they aren't going to make the story "endless." They're just going to thoroughly mark the end of the story and the begin of having a bunch of FF players congregate in a chatroom that looks like a FF game.
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I think it's inaccurate to simply classify a player as either a roleplayer or powergamer. Here's an alternative classification:
1) roleplayer
2) powergamer
3) socializer
4) builder
5) strategician
...and any combination of the above.
The "socializer" type is self-explanatory.
The "builder" type represents the player who wants to change the world. S/he will adventure not selflishly get the best loot or more experience, but rather to make some lasting impact on the world.
The "strategician" type represents the player who likes to use his/her intelligence when playing the game. S/he decides how to engage the enemy before acting instead of simply wading in and fighting. Simply put, s/he likes mental challenges, especially those that require thinking-on-the-fly. If you like playing real time strategy games, you're a strategician.
I'm mostly a "builder" and "strategician". Roleplayer? Roleplaying is fun, but when it gets serious, it gets tedious. I mean I can do what the character would do, but it becomes boring if there's nothing else to do. Powergamer? I heavily powergame initially to see what I can do in the world. In the official campaigns, I created so-called munchkins so I can see all the special effects and stuff. After this period, I still experiment a bit, but I experiment more with tactics than character creation. I hate the "levelling treadmill" that when combined with a powergamer-fest, makes the game unbearable. Socializer? Sure I will chat ingame, but that's what real life friends are for. I'd rather spend my time doing something else in a game.
The key is to make the game enjoyable to all types of people. Any RPG game caters to socializers, so that's not a problem. Roleplayers and powergamers kind of conflict with each other, but there are ways to compromise. NWN doesn't really offer much to "builders" and for good reason too: world inflexibility and lack of world persistency. Strategy (i.e. tactical skill) can be added with good game design.
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MMORPGs aren't that bad. It's the players that ruin them. Everquest could have been great for its time if there were less players per server and tons of DM/GM events.
This is why I don't think I'll be trying WoW. Don't mistake me - I consider Blizzard games top notch. However, I know that WoW is geared toward the teenager crowd, and with the above rationale, I'm pretty sure that WoW will become a powergamer-fest.
The only MMORPG I'm looking forward to is Horizons. It offers an extremely dynamic environment and is geared at a higher age crowd. I'm interesting in helping create cities, waging wars, starting businesses, etc., not just hack and slash.
Endless story!? What story!? Once you get all of your equipment, there's really nothing else to do in the game except for rush friends through levels and player kill. In order to have your story, you need characters. I'm sorry, but having a bunch of people looking like wizards and knights aren't characters - they're players in a game who just appear to be characters. Almost the entire playerbase doesn't know how to "role play," making a "massive multiplayer online role playing game" an oxymoron. Role playing means that you make a seperate identity that has a personality and motives of its own, and most players aren't even that close to being creative or interesting. A senator of a kingdom would never say "omg dude, trade u that gold crown for 50000g and my scepter!!11one" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a FFXI beta tester, I can safely say that FFXI *DOES* have a story. If you want to follow the story, that is. It's like a singleplayer game IN a multiplayer game, and you can have HUGE parties take on missions. (Lemme see... 5 people per party, 5 parties, alliance all 5 parties... Yeah, that's a big party.) FFXI just doesn't feel like any other MMORPG. Also, there is no player killing in FFXI. There will be a player fighting arena, eventually, but no player killing. Don't say bad things about FFXI until you've played it, there IS a story. It's also VERY fun to follow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it didn't have a story at all, I said it didn't have an "endless" one as advertised. Diablo 2 also had a story - but when people finished the campaign, there was absolutely nothing left to do but player kill and collect gear. Most of the FFXI playerbase is going to be barely literate, casual internet users who still use lazy abbreviations in their speech - they aren't going to make the story "endless." They're just going to thoroughly mark the end of the story and the begin of having a bunch of FF players congregate in a chatroom that looks like a FF game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's impossible to complete the story. SquareEnix plans to continue supporting FFXI until the PS2 hard drive can't pack any more files on, which means that they're always going to be adding new things, which also means improving on the story. Also, in Japan, roleplaying is VERY common on the servers, and people take their TIME to type properly. Also, they're going to be putting in a REALLY good translating system soon, and on retail, the servers will be mixed. There'll be Japanese Only servers, English Only servers, and mixed servers is my guess. At the very least, there will be mixed servers.
Of course, i'm also an FF Fanatic, I plan on owning every single one (except XI, simply because I don't have a network adapter) by the end of the year.
And let us not forget that it is not the game that makes the story but the people. UO had no story but it was addictive for months because you could join guilds and such so easily and makes friends. Heck, first week playing I joined a guild who treated me nice (I*C, Lake Superior Shard, RiP) and that made it so much more enjoyable.
1. Quest based gaming system. The game isn't about character pumping, its about exploring, meeting people, and battles. You create your own storyline. In its simpliest form, its "yeah, I took my dwarf to the Frozen Throne ruins and my party fought a 10000hp wendigo." At the deepest level, its "Bronzebeard Buzzgrog and his party of..."
2. Persistent but changing world. Blizzard left a Cliffhanger in the Frozen throne. The Humans have been conquered in Azeroth and much of Lorderon by the Scourge. WoW will have players taking part in active changes to the Warcraft Universe.
3. Instancing. Blizzard is totally removing item camping. How? First, only players in a specific quest can get quest items dropped by important monsters. Second, important areas are instanced, meaning the only people allowed in the generation of that part of the world are in the same party.
Plus, its Warcraft! Orcs, humans, tauren! Night Elves, Blood Elves, PANDAREN! (they better make the Pandaren a playable race. I want to be Kento Darkale: Pandaren Brewmaster. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I think I want to be an undead unit, and kill the brewmaster because he is the most annoying hero EVAR. hes not even a hero. HES A BURNOUT! DO YOU WANT A BURNOUT RULING YOU!?
On to the topic.
Take a look at our beloved ns for a second. Before ns I had never seen real teamplay in a half life mod. Why is that? Because every aspect of ns was designed to require teamplay, which wasn't true of any of the other mods in the same way. Pretty much everything in the game requires two people to do effectively.
Players won't game at a higher level than the mechanics require them to in order to succeed.
The reason there is no plot in GMUDs is because they aren't designed to promote plot. A player is perfectly capable of going through the world just killing stuff. They advance, they're happy, and the game becomes nothing more than killing stuff.
There is a simple way to fix this. Designers of GMUDs need to take a look at real life. Questions such as "what causes plot in real life?" would be good to start with. The most simple answer is conflict. Most GMUDs cut that out immediately. Unless you are in PvP, there really can't be any meaningful conflict whatsoever. Unrestrained conflict however, doesn't work very well, so here's the next question. "Why don't people go around killing eachother in real life?" The dominant causes are morality and social influences, but players in an internet game don't have any morals, and the social influences that develop are going to reflect that. So we get to the third reason: Law Enforcement. Any functioning PvP game needs very strong law enforcement. The fourth reason is that pain sucks. Violent people get hurt a lot, and that isn't much fun. A functioning PvP game needs to have harsh punishments for getting hurt.
On to my personal game design.
The ideal setting for a GMUD is cyberpunk. First of all, the stories typically revolve around criminals, so its a natural fit for teenagers playing video games. Secondly, you have a plot-justified, logical, and direct way of involving god-like law enforcement. A police or military AI would fit the bill nicely. Players that kill without thought to the consequences would be hunted down mercilessly by AI controlled behemoths of police mecha. However, a player that carefully knocks out all the security cameras in a region, gets a few buddies to watch the door, and performs a silent traceless assasination would likely get away scot free. Now you've got plot. A way to do this in fantasy campaigns is to mimic the old west. If somebody's knockin people off up in the mountains, you put a huge bounty on the ****'s head. This also requires that the penalty for dying be steep. (as it should)
Atmosphere follows nicely from this too. You want to create a bad neighborhood? Make it look scummy and make it less frequently and less vigilantly patrolled by law enforcement. Players will quickly learn that if you want to knock somebody off or fence highly illegal wares, that's the place to do it. You want to create dangerous badlands outside the cities? First of all, make it suck to try and get around out there. Secondly, don't police them at all.
The team based missions could be simple to implement too. I don't know why designers go through such contusions to prevent camping. Why don't people in real life sit in caves for years waiting for swords to appear? Well first of all, because swords just don't do that. Secondly, because sitting in a cave for a year sucks. You start to mold, etc. current GMUDs could benefit quite a bit from implementing mold. Cyberpunk deals with this much more easily though. First of all, don't make things appear out of nowhere. Its dumb and it ruins the atmosphere. If you wan't to get something you should have to buy it or steal it. Period. If you are getting started from nothing, get somebody to hire you, or pick somebody's pocket. The missions would revolve around getting money. Maybe a valuable freight of np arrays is coming in from lunar manufacturing plants and is going to be processed in the basement of TRI global enterprises. You need a hacker to open the doors and check the security cams, a covert ops to do the actual lift, maybe a demoltions expert or a heavy weapons guy depending on your style, A getaway driver, maybe a diversion, maybe a guy on the inside, and eventually, a fence. If you're not into crime, or you aren't coordinated enough to get a good team together, get hired for security for the corporations people are robbing. To deal with camping, just keep people out of places they aren't supposed to be. Not just anyone can freely sit in fort knox waiting for an armoured truck to show up, there's no reason to think they should be able to do it in the game. The guards should not so softly escort them to the door. If they kill the guards, the nice thing that cyberpunk allows you to do is to keep bringing in bigger guards, until eventually the military lances the place from orbit. GTA does this well.
The last and essential part of this. Make death permanent. In order to do this, deemphasize skills and emphasize money. Let players choose their heirs, so that they don't lose everything, but when they die, they die. As an optional addition, being regrown could be possible, but would require a rediculous amount of money, such that you would have to be insanely attached to your character to want to go through with it.
A few little additions. To fight inflation make all items decay, add in living expenses, all types of things. Have the security AI do awesome memorable and terrifying things (wintermute anyone? Shodan?) Make the combat and movement in first person, but deemphasize FPS skill.
The title? Worlds of Grand Theft Deus Ex. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->