Sensory Is The Best First Chamber

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

I'd much rather aliens go sensory than movement or defense first, because at least then they won't blow through marines like a rabid llama in an icecream cone once they get second hive, due to the lack of regeneration/redemption onos or adrenaline lerks and gorges.

Maredtext · August 2003

Time to slaughter yet another stoneburg post, lots of fun and easy to do.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>With S you need to either win immediatly or get 3 hives. That's it.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Uh... wut? I'm pretty sure that no matter what chamber you put down first if the aliens win the game they generaly have 3 hives....

Win immediatly? What again? I have seen plenty of games (the majority of them infact) where aliens went sensorys first and still won though not immediately. You are talking nonsense.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If Marines live past the 10 minute mark (which they will if they don't suck), you have to get a third hive. If Marines aren't totally braindead, they will have a hive locked down. Now they can just advace with scanner sweeps and take over the whole Map while your SoF Cows run away from the boomsticks.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well ya you will have to take the third hive in order to kill the marines that are there... see in order to win you have to kill all the marines. Once you get 2 hives and onos's with redemption/regen "locked down" doesn't mean anything.

That advance with scanner sweaps and take over the whole map really sounds nice... to bad it doesn't really work in the game unless aliens suck. Once aliens get 2 hives the game is pretty much over, they easily take the third hive (unless you actually totaly relocated there, in which case you loose anyway) then wittle down your main base to nothing.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Alien wins with M first: 90%
Alien wins with D first: 80%
Alien wins with S first: 30%</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Those are some nice numbers you just made up, heres some of my own

People who eat bread that die: 100%
Difference in the number of beans that were in a can in 1995 as compaired to 2002: 5%
Percentage of intelligent people that believe the percentages you spam out 0%

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As it is now, the main use of S is to locate that last hiding Marine with SoF. If you win with S first you're either playing newbie Marines or you had some awesome stuff going on and would have won even quicker and easier with any other chamber.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Wow, and here I thought that knowing where the enemy is at all times was good threw the entire game. I wonder why people get banned for wallhacking in almost every fps game if its so totaly useless. Strain the brain stoneburg and admit that scent of fear owns everything.

Yup spam more newbie marine statements because you have nothing else to back you up other than an attempt to cow your (logical) opponets with insults about either their skill or the people they were playing.

Basicaly stoneburg your saying that if marines can't routinely kill invisible skulks they suck? Please don't up and out some crap about observatories because as I have said before we are talking about sensorys in early game, commanders have neither the resorces for lots of obs nor the energy to scan alot.

Even if a commander did have alot of energy to scan there is no way that he can scan absolutely everywere, by the time he knows that there is a sensory in a room half his marines in that area are dead because of the invisible skulks. Sure he might be able to scan properly on the marines second attack now that he knows a sensory is there but as a skulk I would expect that and attack the marines in a standared way and kill alot of them regardless.

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Ya your right, despite the fact that most alien games have been won with sensorys in this version they aren't for winning, they are for messing around.

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

I sense a storm brewing over in <b>S</b>candinavia.

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psycho-Kinetic Hyper-Geek @ Aug 19 2003, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Okay here's a question for you then:

How does sensory help you break the two hive lockdown I manage to pull off 75% of the time?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It doesn't really help to break it. Please tell me how movement chambers help break a 2 hive lockdown?

If you actually manage to get a 2 hive lockdown then the aliens are screwed no mater what chamber they put down first. The reason being is that they are obviously massively outclassed.

As for your 2 hive lockdown its not hard to stop if the alien team has a smidgeon of skill.

All I would have to do to prevent to 2 hive lockdown in the first place is to drop a sensory in a critical room on the way to our hive (and don't start trying to make up stuff about how a map is set up because there is virtually always a high traffic room that you will have to pass threw to lock down 2 hives).

After I get the sensory up I go back to skulk and me and 1 other teammate run patrol around the area (no problem because we would have scent of fear on) and if marines actually started moveing tward a hive we would ambush them and probably the 2 of us could kill 4 marines simply because we are cloaked. Please once again do not give any bs about scanning that room because we are talking start of the game still and you don't have loads of energy to scan every room with. Even if the marines actually managed to get threw us we would just notify our teammates and u would run into even more skulks on your way to the hive.

With scent of fear you can pretty much run patrol just around marine start and see what entrance they are going out and then intercept them easily. You can even count them with scent of fear and let your teamates know how many there are.

As for your 2 hive lockdown 75% of the time I would say you are either playing against poor aliens or you are simply a liar.

Bosnian_Cowboy · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maredtext @ Aug 19 2003, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Er.. defence chambers give you defencive upgrades.

Obs are 25 res.

Aggressive marines will be slaughtered by invisible skulks because their commander can't support them with enough scans (obs only have enough energy for 1 scan then you have to wait a long time for the energy for another) nor does he have the res to build enough observatories (which will probably be destroyed before it can get built in the range of a sensory) to negate the 10 res sensory chambers.

Time and dedication WTH are you talking about, if 3 skulks run to critical parts of the map, go gorge and drop a sensory in a hard to find location you can have a pretty good sensory network up in about 30 seconds not only do u get a sensory network but with those 3 SC's you get full scent of fear upgrades making it impossible for marines to take aliens by suprise.

Large amout of resorces? It takes 10 res per sensory even if you count going gorge it is only 20, you will make that much back in a very short amount of time as a sof skulk that hangs out near a sensory chamber.

Ah... who said that I don't attack marines with sensorys.. the point of sensorys is that they can give you sensory upgrades and they can also be put in forward positions to assist your attacking the marines as well as simply locking them in their base if they try to bust out.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
What you're saying here is pretty flimsy and I won't bother continuing the argument. I'll just let my previous post stand (as you haven't knocked it down). But a funny thing happened a few minutes ago. I played a game where aliens got sens first and they got a second hive up (which by your argument should be a definant alien win) but they lost. You know why? Because on servers where players actually have experience marines don't go hopping around waiting to get ambushed by invisible aliens, the commanders and players work together and beat sensory without much worry (this is Lunixmonster 2.0 - Readyroom I was playing on). You should try one of these servers:

[CoFR]Fr31NS Alien Infest 2.0
Lunixmonster 2.0 - Readyroom
-[DI]- Clan Server 2.0
voorgu's 2.0 server

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maredtext @ Aug 19 2003, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It doesn't really help to break it. Please tell me how movement chambers help break a 2 hive lockdown?
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Movement chambers give you adrenaline meaning umbra is actually usable, gorges can actually bile bomb efficently, fades can blink etc. It also means you are free to have regeneration onos or lerk/gorge in a vent to support you making it much easier to take down a hive lockdown or just a marine turret farm or heavy train.

If you go sensory first you are shooting yourself in the face if the marines are good enough to capitalize on your passive stance caused by going sensory first, and grab one or even worse two hives. Sensory does jack to help you beyond one hive while movement and defense are far more effective upgrades throughout the whole duration of the game.

RaVe · August 2003

:/

2 hive lockdowns : You will need DCs first to support Fades and Onos

MCs are quite possible, skulks can get celerity and run around the locked hive like a mad man and try to look for a blind spot around the TF,and get a Fade in there

SCs....by the time they have your 2 hives, they also got enough res for at least 3 observatories or even more.

@ Minstrel Knight : Those are 2 hive abilities,but nice try anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Aug 19 2003, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
@ Minstrel Knight : Those are 2 hive abilities,but nice try anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yes I'm quite senile these days.

Stoneburg · August 2003

Let me start by saying that the reason I haven't really put much effort into explaining exactly why S is inferior to M as first chamber 99% of the time is simple, there are too many posts by too many people that have yet to understand the basics of strategy. I'll get into it now I guess.

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Actually that right there is blatant falsehood, whenever I com I always pray that they wont get sensorys and I have never seen another com rejoice when aliens went sensory's either. Please try to avoid makeing/dreaming up little scripts that would be amusing if they weren't so untrue.
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NOt untrue. Actually all COM's I know are happy when Aliens go S first. All of them, without a single exception. For example Keyser, Draco and Dreamer to mention three. There's already been people pointing it out in this thread.

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Also I'm not sure what you mean by "one time"... if a skulk ambushes and kills a few marines on account of being invisible around a sensory chamber he can always go back invisible and do it again... its not like there is a number of times that you can go invisible limit around a sensory chamber. If what you mean is that he won't catch the marines by supprise a second time, uh, yeah he will, you can move while invisible around a sensory chamber, therefore you could be anywhere.
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Against decent Marines the cloaking shield is useful once. If they're pre-occupied, maybe twice or three times. If you are constantly "surprising" Marines by being cloaked in teh same area, doesn't that tell you that you are fighting pretty dumb marines? Or would you fall for it as well?

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That would be diffIcult to do seeing as how skulks are a match for marines even without being invisible. With sensory chambers skulks kill/death ratio is like 3/1. If the area was scanned then the skulks loose their advantage of invisiblilty and their ratio would become at the least 1/1 instead, skulks still have the advantage in this case seeing as how they can reinforce faster than marines. I would hardly call that "killing sheepish looking skulks." Your plan seems to depend apon alien suckage to a extreme degree.

Let us also not forget that we are talking about sensory as a FIRST HIVE CHAMBER that means it will be at the start of the game. Might I remind you that at the start of the game you have enough energy in your obs for a (as I mentioned before) whoping 1 scan that lasts all of like 10 seconds? You think that your marines can kill all the "sheepish looking skulks" then knife the sensory chamber (hopefully there is only 1 around the area) in under 10 seconds?
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I totally disagree. Unupgraded skulks are no match for good Marines. I myself can take on one easily, and often two or more if they have no upgrades, and I play with 200 ping and I am by no means exceptional as Marine. A skulk with Celerity however is a totally different thing, as is one with silence. Unupgraded skulks are weak and slow.

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Um well seeing as how in most games aliens put down sensorys first and marines secure a hive yet aliens still win I would say that your gloating is kind of pathetic. Once aliens have 2 hives they have no problem taking their last hive back from you even without the (questionably?) all critical celerity and adren. If you actually manage to hold the third hive from the aliens then they will just destroy your main base. If after that you manage to relocate to the hive it really doesn't matter because your going to loose in the end anyway, it is just a longer game.
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In most games where I play, Aliens put down M first. When they go S it's usually either a n00b dropping it in defiance or for novelty. I've actually clumsily dropped S twice by accident. We lost both times. I find that in newbie servers, S is first the vast majority of times though.

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Yes your absolutely right, I would much rather be able to move a little faster OR be totaly silence (but as easily seen as normal) with movement chambers than have a wallhack and be totaly invisible at the same time with sensorys. (this was a sarcastic statment incase you cant figure out that having a wallhack and being invisible at the same time is better than being silent OR being faster.)
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Heh. You don't move "a little" faster with celerity. And about your wallhack, don't you have headphones? So you can see a group of 5 Marines coming at you, what are you going to do about it without M upgrades? Marines can't get "silence" so you will always hear them. Yeah, SoF is nice, I like it, it helps me see Marines that are camping in corners maybe waiting for a phasegate. It's not vital though and gives me absolutely NO help when attacking somewhere.

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I would say that sensorys become less effective after the beginning of the game, however, saying that they are useless is once again a intentional (at least I hope it is intentional) misstatement. I find it hard to believe that you can say that scent of fear is useless at any point in the game with a straight face. Of course you may be making a comment on how marines always loose in 2.0 and cleverly saying that scent of fear is useless because you already know where the marines are... bottled up in marine start.

Regardless of the fact that sensorys become less usefull farther into the game, durring the part of the game that they are usefull they simply own. In other words I would much rather have a chamber that simply owns marines then becomes less usefull as the game goes on (you would of course be getting more chambers latter in the game) than have a chamber that is medio
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Saying they are useless is indeed a hyperbole, but not far from the truth. Does SoF *really* make a difference for an Onos? You usually have TWO chambers and need to take hive #3 or Marine Base, HOW does S help you do this? Once in a blue moon you can use it to sneak up a hive but that is really rare and gardly something to plan for.

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Another way to think of it is that if you totaly crush marines with sensorys at the start of the game does it really matter if they become less useful later? Marines will have already lost the game due to the raping they took from sensorys, thus alowing you pretty much the run of the map and freedom to get any other chamber you want to replace the declining sensory.
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You can crush Marines early game with M upgrades. I've only seen Marines get crushewd by S when they are... that's right! Newbies. Smack down an S outside Marine base and feast on the newbie Marines that stumble out after jumping in the CC to drop themself a shotgun.

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Well first point that I'm not going to really spend much time on is how exactly are defence chambers worthless? Not entirely sure how taking more damage, regenerating health, and never dieing can be called worthless.
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D aren't worthless, they are vital to win the res-war and increase efficiency of your heavier units. They do however offer very weak advantages in the beginning compared to M. A carapace/regen skulk is a lot easier to kill then a celerity/silence one. A *lot* easier. You're almost guaranteed a second hive since it takes only about 6 minutes to get it up, so you take that chance and drop M first even though D will be more vital.

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Second point, how does either moveing faster, being silent, or haveing more energy better than both being invisible and wallhacking at the same time? You say that movement wins hands down but you don't give any reason why it wins hands down and left to my own devices (and I would assume many other people) I can only logicaly find sensorys to be better.
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Ok, let's clear this up.

You are invisible within a certain area, this area costs res to obtain and is totally negated by a scan or the chamber being destroyed. If you get cloaking you don't have SoF so I won't discuss that.

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Scent of fear owns for fade, he is a hit and run class and scent of fear increase's his effectiveness by 5 times. If you honestly don't think that scent of fear helps fades immensly I would recommend actually playing 2.0 instead of just posting.
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Yeah. Now if you look unde rmy name you will see that I joined the forum in NOvemver 2002, you joined in August 2003. I don't know about you but I started playing NS the day 1.0 was released. I was away when 2.0 was released and didn't start playing it until August 4th but have played it every day since then. I run one of the 20 most active NS servers and a site devoted to NS. I play NS maybe 3-8 hrs a day. I checked Csports and it said I had 160hrs of NS.

If you have played 2.0 you will have noticed that blink drains energy. With adren, a fad can blink indefinetely. Ask the top Fade players (cri.Draco is the best I've seen) if they prefer S or M upgrades, please.

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You are right about onos ,however, scent of fear and cloaking are not as helpfull for him as they are for other classes. Your point about sensorys not helping onoses much is, well.... pointless because by the time you have onoses you would have other chambers that help the onos more.
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Actually I've been right about everything so far. If you think Onos is the end of the game, you are however wrong, again. 2:nd hive is usually up 6-7 minutes into the game and Onos start appearing after 10, most games go a lot longer then that.

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We are talking about sensory being the best start game chamber, not the sensory chambers effects after the marines have already lost because there are 5 onos's running around.
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5 Onos running around with only S upgrades isn't end game, it's shotgun practise time.

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I would once again disagree with you, all chambers are equaly good... only at different times in the game. Sensorys are good early game because they alow relativly inferior species to own marines with little effore simply because marines can't see them. Defencives are good middle game when you get heavyer classe's like fade and onos in order to extend their longlivity. Movements are best late game when aliens need that little bit of extra umf to crush the marines.
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To claim that all chambers are equally good is just absurd. It's not possible. Yeah, "inferior species" can own Marines with cloaking if they're lucky or the Marines dumb, with M they're superiour species though, which I think is better.

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Aaa yes, if someone disagrees with your opinion then they must be newb. Dam even I must be newb despite the fact that my individual skill level is higher than yours will ever be.

Calling me a newbie because I disagree with your flimsy arguments (o wait you didn't offer any arguments, all you said was "movements are better sensorys are useless, you are newb if you like sensorys") is childish in the extreme. At least people who like sensorys can offer reasons why they are better.
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Not neccesarily, but the "Sensory first!" argument *is* mainly supported by newbies. The S first servers *are* mainly newbie servers. I am sure there are non-newbs that think S is a fantastic first chamber but they are not as many as the newb ones.

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Ok well im not gona touch this other than to once again mention that no matter how fast you can move if the marine can aim or has a shotgun you are dead. On the other hand if you have sensorys you don't even have to move, you can simply sit on the floor untill at marine runs into you and bite him and you are gauranteed to get alot of kills simply because he cant see you.
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That doesn't make sense. You speak about logic and now you actually claim that a moving target is as easy to hit as a stationary one... yes you are, "if the Marine can aim". Well, *I* can aim. I'm probably a bit above average on that, and *I* have trouble hitting a celerity skulk as do pretty much all players. I'm starting to think you haven't seen how fast a lvl3 celerity skulk can move...

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Well one reason a gorge could be saveing res is because he has 13 and wants to put up a res tower? It would take much longer to go skulk and get enough kills for 25 res so you can go gorge then put up a res instead of just waiting for the 2 res you need.
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The example said a gorge saving for hive. The idea behind getting the S chamber was so that a gorge could sit and save for a hive. This is a definition of newbie. In 1.04 gorges would save for hives, now one or two skulks in the beginning *don't* drop chambers and (by using their M upgrades:P) kill 5-6 Marines then go gorge and start the hive.

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You should really stop for a second and use your brain before you spout off insults about someones playing skill. If anything should be embarassing to you its reading your own post.
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I'm not insulting your playing skills, I'm insulting your grasp (or lack theoreof) of how the game is played by competent players. I guess I am insulting the skills of the players you game with though.

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Son, I realize this may be hard to understand but not only can you hide from marines with sensory you can also kill them. Movement chambers do give you some nice bonus's to your marine killing ability, however, nothing movement chambers give you compair with being invisible and haveing a wallhack at the same time.
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You go ahead and sit in your little cloaking area until you get scanned. I'll take moving at super-speed, being able to spore/umbra/healspray/blink indefinetely over that every day. I'll see your wallhack and raise you a pair of decent headphones too.

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Major case of "big man on campus" from this kid. The problem is that we have played on good servers and understand how it works. You on the other hand evidently have a difficulty accepting fact for what it is. Either that or you know that sensorys are better early game but you just can't admit that YOU ARE WRONG so you keep calling people who say sensorys are better newbs because you have no actuall facts to back you up.
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What good servers? As far as I know there's only a handful of really good servers out there. You say you've played 50 servers, so even if you've played at all the good ones the vast majority of the time you're playing against newbies, which is apparent by your examples.

Lots of people join the server I run and go "SENSORY FIRST:: NOOOOO!! WHY DID YOU DROP MOVE?!?!" and leave going "Man, M is awesome, I am never going S again". Never seen the opposite happen though. Never seen someone go from prefering M first to S.

On your server:

How many nodes droped by aliens at start? (Should be 4-6)
How long until lvl3 upgrades? (Should be 1 min)
How long until 2:nd hive is started? (should be 2.5-5 min)

Ps. There IS a D/M/S or 2.0 and it's M/D/S.

Xentor · August 2003

Sensory is fun to play with, but it is a DEFENSIVE ability. Cloaking and SoF will help you defend your territory, but it will NOT help you assault marine outposts. Any competent marine commander facing a cloaked alien team will drop an observatory in every important outpost (Hives, double nodes, chokepoints), which completely negates cloaking.

Unless the alien team is much more skilled than the marines (Which would of course make this entire discussion irrelevant), the marines will be able to secure a hive right away, even before the sensory network is set up. Keep in mind that if you immediately go gorge and drop 3 sensories, you're delaying the capture of those all-important resource nozzles.

Once the marines have a hive secured (Turrets and an observatory, of course), sensory becomes a liability. For your second hive you can choose either defense OR movement... With defense, you have strong aliens that are too slow/inefficient to beat a manned turret farm. With movement, you have fast aliens that go down quickly to upgraded turrets.

I admit, sensory CAN be a viable strategy, but it's a risky one. If the commander knows how to properly counter it, the aliens will be at a disadvantage in the middle-game.

Now, think of the benefits to going movement first...

Skulks can evolve silence and set up VERY effective ambushes. I have personally taken down squads of 4 or 5 light marines simply by waiting for them to pass and munching them from the back. If you set your ambush in advance, motion tracking is useless. A smart skulk doesn't need cloaking to be effective, and a good set of ears is a fair replacement for SoF in many situations. Once you go on the offensive, a celerity skulk can, as said, traverse the map quickly, and zip around the marines so fast no crosshair will touch them.

Gorges with celerity can EASILY outrun marines in all but the most unforgiving straight corridors. Cloaking is nice if you're setting up a secret base, but the marines can still hear you building. A silent gorge can set up an entire base right around the corner from a marine squad, without them even suspecting an enemy presence. An adrenaline gorge can provide non-stop healing to an OC wall or be much more effective when fighting marines.

Lerks, as has been said many times, are much more useful with adrenaline. On the other hand, a lerk hiding in a vent and sniping with spikes might want to go with silence, so the marines won't even know where the attack is coming from.

Fades, which usually appear while the second hive is getting started (Or before), are infinitely more useful with adrenaline, since blink saps your energy so quickly. You can blink in, take a few swipes, and blink out before the marines can concentrate enough fire to take you down. Then you can blink all the way back to a hive for healing effortlessly.

Now, once the second hive finishes, you have to think of what chambers make the best combos... The three choices are MC+DC, MC+SC, and DC+SC.

MC + DC = Silent Regeneration, Fast Carapace, Fast Redeeming Oni, etc... Great combo in almost any situation

MC + SC = Silence and Cloaking (Total stealth) - Great for defense and ambushes, but not as good as MC/DC for assault.

DC + SC = Hmm, nothing special comes to mind in the combo department...

Anyway, I'm getting tired of typing, since you're just going to endlessly repeat how much you like Cloak + SoF, so I'll just stop here.

Stoneburg · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
With S you need to either win immediatly or get 3 hives. That's it.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Uh... wut? I'm pretty sure that no matter what chamber you put down first if the aliens win the game they generaly have 3 hives....

Win immediatly? What again? I have seen plenty of games (the majority of them infact) where aliens went sensorys first and still won though not immediately. You are talking nonsense.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ok, I see you didn't understand this...

Unless you win the game immediatly (that means really crippling the Marines beyond repair or chewing their IPs), you will have to have THREE hives to win against a competent Marine team. Decent Marines juts WON'T go down to silly S/D or S/M Onos/Fades/Lerks. This has been explained several times in this thread, he necessity of 3 hives when going S first.

Amelek · August 2003

I love this thread ... its really long but hasn't discussed one of the most IMPORTANT uses of sensory. Sensory first, particularly around the hive is one of the best counters to a full out shotgun rush in the game. With the devastating power of the shotgun rush, it at least makes it worthwhile to note. Dropping a sensory in your hive when you hear that marines are coming with shotguns could save your game.

Fangs · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Vas said: For a gorge early on, the most important thing is survival, living long enough to save up res to drop a nozzle or cap a hive, or sometimes drop OC’s in an important spot. In this respect, for gorges at least, movement is a total waste: An “average” marine will take down a gorge even with adrenaline spit, track down a celerity gorge, and silence is just completely useless for a gorge. Defense has SOME value for a gorge-but it is marginal. With a marine chasing you, regen isn’t going to help significantly, nor is carcapace. Redemption may help you live, BUT it wont help you hold a position, if your in a hive and your trying to save raise to get it, and you redeam out-okay, your alive, but the marines capped the hive so it doesn’t matter.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

True but is gorge survival worth crippleing your teams offence abillitys?

My answer in a resounding NO.

What is your primary attack creature at the start ofthe game, as well as 5-7 mins into the game?

Skulk.

Takeing into acount the fact that the alien team cannot afford to build more then a handful of senory chambers at the start of any game. How is it possible that the sensory chamber can contribute to slowing marine expansion or provideing assistance in destroying the marine base?

The answer is it can't The only chamber that seriously inhances a skulks survivability in 2.0 is the movement chamber. Celerity and Silence make skulks almost twice as effective. Furthermore people love to arguee that sensory chambers allow you to stay invisible while moveing and devistate the enemy. This is truebut they forget to mention that you must have previously built a sensory chamer at that location for it to offer that effect. So unless you have a spy on the marine team telling where the marines plan to attack long before they ever get there then this argument is pure nonsence. (no pun intended) Becouse no team ever has the money at the start of the game to afford to spam sensory chambers, or even to build them in all the key areas nessasery to make them truly effective for the whole team we must conclude that they are usefull only for gorge survival and in a few minor situations to hold a previously built up area.

-Just Food For Thought-

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Movement chambers give you adrenaline meaning umbra is actually usable, gorges can actually bile bomb efficently, fades can blink etc. It also means you are free to have regeneration onos or lerk/gorge in a vent to support you making it much easier to take down a hive lockdown or just a marine turret farm or heavy train.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I'm glad that you realized your mistake in your later post. Yes those are 2 hive ablilities.. with the exception of blink.

Like I said if marines actually manage to lock 2 hives down the game is pretty much over already because aliens have to be massively outclassed for that to happen. If marines have 2 hives locked down movements do nothing more to help break the lockdown than sensorys do... about all you can do with mc at that point is just spam spores more.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you go sensory first you are shooting yourself in the face if the marines are good enough to capitalize on your passive stance caused by going sensory first, and grab one or even worse two hives. Sensory does jack to help you beyond one hive while movement and defense are far more effective upgrades throughout the whole duration of the game.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

You people seem to have a real mental connection with sensorys and just sitting around doing nothing. IT IS NOT A PASSIVE STANCE IF YOU GET SENSORYS FIRST, is that hard to understand? If you are camping outside the marine base entrances cloaked how is that passive? You are waiting to ambush them and totaly shuting down any attempt to move out of their base.

Do not drop sensorys at your hive, drop them in forward rooms that have high traffic, this would be offencive use of sensory chambers. Im unsure what exactly you mean by attacking with aliens? Do you mean mindlessly charging into the marine main base over and over and dieing again and again? If this is what you mean by attacking then yes your right, sensorys don't help you do this. As a matter of fact I would say that no chamber would help you if you suicide over and over on marine start.

If what you mean by attacking is killing marines when they come out of marine start and start moveing out trying to get res/expand then sensorys are the best for this, period. Commanders can not possibly scan every room constantly for aliens, they just dont have the energy or res to do this.

Once again, scent of fear helps you threwout the entire game, by the time mid game comes and cloaking starts to become less effective you will have slaughtered the marines enough with sensorys that you should easily have another hive up and another chamber to bolster the (slightly) declining sensory.

Your right defence and movement are good upgrades in the latter game, but we arent talking about that are we. Stop going off on random subjects and concentrate on the fact that sensory IS the best chamber in the early game, marines CANNOT counter it fast enough to prevent its usefullness. Sure marines can counter it eventually but not before they have been threw hell first.

You say that if you get sensorys marines will go and get 2 hives? WTH where did this come from.... you could get no chambers at all and if your alien team can get a 1 kill to 1 death ratio marines should not be able to secure 2 hives. Even if by some miracle marines did secure 2 hives when the aliens had a sensory how exactly would dc's or mc's stop them from doing this if you weren't able to stop them while invisible?

Your managing to contradict yourself in one post. You said that aliens with sensorys have a passive stance (I would assume that you mean a defencive stance seeing as how I have never seen a passive alien). So basicaly you said that aliens with sensorys have a defencive stance (which I disagree with but I have already addressed previously in this post) HOW EXACTLY DO MARINES ATTACK AND TAKE 2 HIVES WHILE ALIENS ARE DEFENDING CRITICAL ROOMS ON THE MAP?

Cumon people this is like argueing with kids that state the same thing over and over then when you crush their argument they come up with something that makes no sense whatsoever or they start calling you insulting names because their point of veiw does not stand up to scruntity.

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What you're saying here is pretty flimsy and I won't bother continuing the argument.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Wow!! I called one of your MC loving compatriots posts flimsy previously in this thread in almost the exact same way. The only difference is that I offered logical reasons why he was wrong and I was right.

Yes you shouldn't bother continuing the argument, you have already lost.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'll just let my previous post stand (as you haven't knocked it down).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Not sure what exactly you mean by this... if you mean that I haven't responded to your previous post I actually have. If what you mean is that my responce wasn't enough to counter any argument you made then I would suggest that you go reread it seeing as how you were totaly crushed and I countered every single (misguided) statement that you made.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>But a funny thing happened a few minutes ago.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

O no this isn't gona be one of those "storys" about this "one time" this thing happened and so it proves your point wrong is it?

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I played a game where aliens got sens first and they got a second hive up (which by your argument should be a definant alien win) but they lost.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Uhg... I guess it is one of those "storys" about this "one time" thing this happened even though it probably was a fluke I will deny that it was in order to try and prove you wrong.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You know why? Because on servers where players actually have experience marines don't go hopping around waiting to get ambushed by invisible aliens, the commanders and players work together and beat sensory without much worry.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Fantastic, yet another one of those childish insults infering that I have lesser skill than you therefore I am newb and couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. Great kid great, keep trying.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>(this is Lunixmonster 2.0 - Readyroom I was playing on). You should try one of these servers:

[CoFR]Fr31NS Alien Infest 2.0
Lunixmonster 2.0 - Readyroom
-[DI]- Clan Server 2.0
voorgu's 2.0 server</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I really don't give a crap what server this "fluke" game took place on that you got your "story" from.

Btw I have played on some of those servers before and yes my opinion about sensorys remains the same. These "elite" servers that you try and point me to do nothing more than reinforce my opinion.

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Aug 19 2003, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> :/

2 hive lockdowns : You will need DCs first to support Fades and Onos

MCs are quite possible, skulks can get celerity and run around the locked hive like a mad man and try to look for a blind spot around the TF,and get a Fade in there

SCs....by the time they have your 2 hives, they also got enough res for at least 3 observatories or even more.

@ Minstrel Knight : Those are 2 hive abilities,but nice try anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
If they even manage to lock down 2 hives at the start of game then you are massively outclassed and have already lost no matter what chamber you get. This is the point I was trying to make.

Bosnian_Cowboy · August 2003

You really have a bad attitude, Maredtext.

Psycho-Kinetic_Hyper-Geek · August 2003

Hey Mared! Why don't you join/start a clan and see how far that sensory first will take you? If the clans aren't doing it it is prolly a good indication that your plan is full of holes.

The_Finch · August 2003

Camping is by definition a passive activity. Since you're limited to the range of the sensory chamber, it denies you mobility and relegates you to a specific area. Any marine with basic intelligence will figure out the invisible Skulk was either cloaked by upgrade or sensory cloaking field. In either case, they know you have sensory first and can respond accordingly.

Discussing the early game is all well and good, but every game consists of more then that. While sensory is a good choice right off the bat, it leaves you weaker midgame and forces three hives for endgame. With the M/D order, aliens have won games without starting a third hive or while the third hive is building. I have yet to see that happen with sensory first. Midgame, SoF isn't as valuble. You're facing mostly upgraded LMG marines and the occasional shotgun. Killing LMGers isn't going to win you the res war. Smash 200 res worth of turrets, TF, res node, observatory and sieges, that'll set them back.

Two hive lockdown:

Alright. This happened to me on Sunday. We were playing on Voogru's 2.0 server. The map was Eclipse and we started in maintenance hive. Somebody dropped one sensory chamber right off the bat, even though half the team said movement. The marines rushed EC hive, found it empty and relocated there. They capped triad and moved on CC. They were able to kill the Skulks pretty easily, since we were slower and unarmored.

Dislodging them from comp hive was a nightmare. Most of the marines were there, so SoF was worthless unless you like hunting rambos instead of trying to win. You needed to attack and move, so cloaking was worthless. If we had gotten movement, we could have had fewer Lerks spamming spores/spikes and more Skulks on the ground destroying turrets and marines. We needed 3 Lerks to sufficently cover the hive. With adren, 2 would have been more then enough. Our Fade and Onos wasn't nearly as effective as they could have been. With celerity the Onos could have gotten in and out faster. It basically took us 2-3 times as long as it should have, because one n00b wanted the cloak.

Your insta-sensory network just isn't feasible. There are too many locations to cover for a starting team and once the marines figure out you're cloaked, they'll go for an observatory. Not to mention the costs of a sensory network. It involves most of the team Gorging and dropping sensories. What they need to drop is resource towers. They need to get a good res flow going right away if they want to stay on top. The vaunted invisiblity is very limited. No moving with the upgrade, no attacking within the cloak radius. When you do that, your stealth is gone and you're left with a Skulk that isn't nearly as combat effective as a MC or DC Skulk.

I'll agree with the 1:1 kill ratio, <i>if you have sensory first.</i> Give me defense first, and I'll go 2:1. Give me silence or celerity and 3:1 comes fairly easy. Silence is a Godly upgrade for Skulks, since you can drop from ceilings without any sound and chompeh the marines without their buddies hearing you. Sensory does nothing to help your combat or base assault ability.

Grimm · August 2003

Sensory first is a novelty. It was great fun in the first week of 2.0, but after that people began thinking about the situation at hand, and what to do in the situation.

For example, a marine walks into an area and is suddenly chomped by a skulk and killed. Said marine respawns, goes back to the area more cautiously, and is attacked again, but most likely survives because he is prepared. Either way, when he is in the area again, he'll do one of two things: Ask the comm to scan the area, and proceed to knife the sensory chamber, or will walk around the room knifing along the walls until he finds said sensory chamber. Cloaking OCs isn't very effective either, because once a marine knows where the OCs are, the marine team can decide what to do about them. Unlike alien players, OCs are stationary, and won't attack from a different location.

Good skulks can already effectively ambush marines by hiding in the shadows and in the vents. Thats what the vents are there for, and they serve a wonderful purpose for those of us who know how to use them.

Sensory chambers can be used effectively, but they have to be used correctly. Placing the chamber in the same spot over and over again leads to a dead chamber. Oftentimes its better to place the chamber in the center of the room where the marines will not be expecting it.

However, in the end, sensory first is still not as effectve as either of the other chambers, in most cases movement.

lagger · August 2003

omc.... you guys stopped beating the dead horse and pulled out some uzi's to shoot it. Again search buttons are your friend... and shouldnt this be in the kharra strat forums?

stiletto_edge · August 2003

Don't forget pheromone!

Sensory upgrades are worthless compared to the rest of the possible upgrades, I think we have established that.

We also know that sensory networks can be well used when laid correctly. However, you dont want to spend the time setting up a S network at the start of the game, from a decent rine team, you just dont get enough kills for it to be worth it. If you want the easy kills, M upgrades work just as well, and continue to help for the rest of the game.

But have fun with your wall hack, I prefer their metal boots and beeping turrets.

I_Am_The_Force · August 2003

Okay lets say you do have a sens up and 3 rines come into the room. Do you think you can kill all 3 rines before they kill you? and what are the chances that during that spraying they did to kill you they hit the sc? Even 1 marine can walk into a sens trap and manage to spray enough to find out where the sc is and either tell his teammates or make his way back there and kill it himself.

Why dont we get a pug together and show this nub once and for all that sc is not the best 1st chamber.

Speed_2_Dave · August 2003

<b>PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS, KTHANKSBYE</b>

Maveric · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Aug 19 2003, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> There is no "Best first chamber"  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
and i hate to quote myself. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

<b>KTHXBYE</b>

Someone plz lock...

m4d · August 2003

Uhm my first post here <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
Hi you ppl <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
Sensory first mmhh.. this was seen often after 2.0 release and it worked often (when 2.0 was new).
But now it's pretty much useless like most people here pointed out.
Marines and Comm's just change their tactics to conter sensory no big deal..

Anyway i think one point about sensory was totaly forgotten...
It is most times so useless because on most servers where i play (dunno if they are good servers or not i just take the ones where i got a good ping) many marines give a sh** about you being cloaked...

It happened to me sooo many times that i stopped counting. I hang arround on some random location as a cloakskulk (lvl3) or in the range of a S chamber. Okay hanging there i hear some marine coming closer.. first thing i think "Yumyum food ^_^" so the marine enters the room looking arround stupid.. and blasts me away with 7 aimed pistolshots <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>
So i didn't move, i didn't make any sound, saw and heard no scannersweep.
And now tell me how the hell do these f**** di******* know where i'am all the time?

I know the answer but it's too scary to speak it out..
I think that's the biggest point why cloaking is more and more useless.

Speed_2_Dave · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (m4d @ Aug 20 2003, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It happened to me sooo many times that i stopped counting. I hang arround on some random location as a cloakskulk (lvl3) or in the range of a S chamber. Okay hanging there i hear some marine coming closer.. first thing i think "Yumyum food ^_^" so the marine enters the room looking arround stupid.. and blasts me away with 7 aimed pistolshots <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>
So i didn't move, i didn't make any sound, saw and heard no scannersweep.
And now tell me how the hell do these f**** di******* know where i'am all the time?

I know the answer but it's too scary to speak it out..
I think that's the biggest point why cloaking is more and more useless.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
an important thing to remember is that cloaking only works to 90%.. and if you have the cloaking upgrade if you move, you make LOTS of noise (cloak, decloak)

Don't stand on or near lights was my trick.. find somewhere dark, where they won't look, and chompeh.

Cloaking is not 100%! It doesn't fully cloak!!!

Ape · August 2003

I'm just not going to bother. This thread really is a waste of time.

Warfare · August 2003

If you're choosing Sensory Chambers first, just make sure to fill the map with them, cause that's what their purpose is, in my eyes.
Sure, it has it's upgrades, but having your team invisible about across the whole map is a blast.
Better not seen than not heard is what I tell those that request Movement Chamber for silence (though I think they want it because they think it negates motion tracking).

However, I usually buy an offense chamber first, not an upgrade chamber.
And any chamber first has it's excelent purpose. There's no chamber first that sucks in my opinion.

Ahnteis · August 2003

sensory negates mt, not movement.

And as hinted, your name still shows up bright and clear if someone looks at you. Goodbye cloaking effectiveness.

Sensory Is The Best First Chamber

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