Sensory Is The Best First Chamber
Ves
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10193Members
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10193Members
Lets break it down:
Even if marines blitz a hive, aliens SHOULD be able to get the other one fairly quickly-if they cant then they are vastly out skilled by the marines and its moot anyway(not always true-but usually).
While you have one hive, you usually only have to deal with 3 types of aliens: Skulks, gorges and to a lesser degree lurks. Few people go fade or onos before the second hive as by that time there are not enough res nozzles up.
How can each chamber help each of the three?
For a gorge early on, the most important thing is survival, living long enough to save up res to drop a nozzle or cap a hive, or sometimes drop OC’s in an important spot. In this respect, for gorges at least, movement is a total waste: An “average” marine will take down a gorge even with adrenaline spit, track down a celerity gorge, and silence is just completely useless for a gorge. Defense has SOME value for a gorge-but it is marginal. With a marine chasing you, regen isn’t going to help significantly, nor is carcapace. Redemption may help you live, BUT it wont help you hold a position, if your in a hive and your trying to save raise to get it, and you redeam out-okay, your alive, but the marines capped the hive so it doesn’t matter.
Now for lurks:
Movement has some genuine value for lurks-adrenaline can be useful early on, HOWEVER it isn’t really useful for gorges, so that is a big strike against dropping movements first. Celerity is a waste, as is silence(it can be useful but 99% of the time most people don’t know how to play a silence lurk). Defense has marginal value: You may regen with it while hiding in a vent, but also-since there are few lurks early on this value is mitigated considerably. ALSO since you have low energy, you wont be making spore clouds very fast anyway, so even if you live the speed you crank out your damage is slowed.
Now for SKULKS!
Early to mid game SKULKS are the most common player class for aliens, so whatever helps them the most is the best tower.
Defense: Defense has no huge value for a skulk by itself. You redeem-okay, that’s a 5 second wait on responding and you have lost control of the area you were fighting for. Regen-same thing, if a skulk dies, who cares? Carapace: This value of this is debatable, IF they have a steady supply of gorges/D chambers healing them between killing this can be useful, this however usually isn’t the case. Carapace can be useful, however a good marine is going to kill a poor skulk, even if it takes a few extra bullets. Movement really isn’t of great value for a skulk. Silence is nice, but wallhack is better(explained further down). Adrenaline is completely worthless for a skulk, no real explanation needed there. MOST people don’t like celerity as a skulk-as they move SO fast they have trouble controlling them. YES you have a big ****, and you are about to scream “BUT I AM THE MOST LEETEST SKULK EVAHH!!!!! I PWN WITH CELERITY!” well most people don’t, not even server vets. Celerity skulks are hard to control, so most people don’t use them.
Now for sensory!
Sensory has two upgrades which are very valuable to ALL three classes.
Cloak is perfect for all 3. Is a gorge saving for res to drop ventilation hive when he hears marines coming? No problem! Hide, call for help! While your hiding and waiting for help you can even tell your team what the attack is composed of, how many, what weapons, what they are building etc. The same applies for a skulk or lurk. NO upgrade allows you to hold a spot without fighting besides cloak. The exact same can be done by a skulk or lurk if they are suddenly in a situation they don’t think they can win: Stay hidden and call for help, tell your team mates what are going on. You CAN try to hide in the shadows, but this isn’t as dependable.
Scent of Fear has to be the best upgrade in the game-bar none.
It…. Is…. A….. wallhack! I don’t understand how people don’t see its value. I was just in a match where people said it is worthless-their ears are a wallhack! LOL yes I’m sure they are! Your ears can tell you EXACTLY where the marines are with pinpoint precision and how many, 30 feet away-longer if they are injured. For a gorge this is the ultimate defense: If he is saving for res, he will see the enemy coming LONG before he does. He can go hide behind a wall nearby and tell his team what’s going on as he waits for help.
Lurk’s might like adrenaline or regen, but similar to above, what will make them live the longest? If you know when there is a threat nearby, you can expect that threat and maneuver around it. If you know where the enemy is, you can get away-its THAT simple. They cant kill you if they cant get to you!
For skulks, wallhack is the ultimate pwnage. Run around the map till you see a group of marines, mirror them from behind or the sides. Predict their route, hang on a ceiling… POW! Some people say cloak is better for a skulk. Cloak is VERY useful for a skulk-HOWEVER scent of fear will let them hide by knowing where the marines are coming from AND let them more easily kill them!
You want to attack someplace but you don’t know if there are any marines around? Now you do! You know EXACTLY where they are, and that gives you an ENORMEOUS advantage!
But wait, there’s more! For three easy payments of $29.95 I will throw in the cutter blade which makes thousands of julians fries in minutes! Er wait, wrong pitch!
MORE SO however, sensory chambers have a VERY large area of effect. You can drop a sensory chamber and poof-EVERYONE in the facility has cloak-so now they can hide AND have wallhack. Drop a sensory in the ceiling in cargo chamber? Now everyone in a large range can hide invisible AND see where the enemy is coming from-what could be more powerful then that?
You may be able to heal, or kill faster, or sneak(silence is useless the second they have motion) BUT with sensory you can see where the enemy is coming from, AND hide from them. If you have complete control over where and when you fight, you have an ENORMEOUS advantage.
P.S. If you want defense first and I’m an alien-tough, its utterly worthless, if you want a DC, drop it yourself(though if everyone says MC I’ll gladly drop a MC).
Even if marines blitz a hive, aliens SHOULD be able to get the other one fairly quickly-if they cant then they are vastly out skilled by the marines and its moot anyway(not always true-but usually).
While you have one hive, you usually only have to deal with 3 types of aliens: Skulks, gorges and to a lesser degree lurks. Few people go fade or onos before the second hive as by that time there are not enough res nozzles up.
How can each chamber help each of the three?
For a gorge early on, the most important thing is survival, living long enough to save up res to drop a nozzle or cap a hive, or sometimes drop OC’s in an important spot. In this respect, for gorges at least, movement is a total waste: An “average” marine will take down a gorge even with adrenaline spit, track down a celerity gorge, and silence is just completely useless for a gorge. Defense has SOME value for a gorge-but it is marginal. With a marine chasing you, regen isn’t going to help significantly, nor is carcapace. Redemption may help you live, BUT it wont help you hold a position, if your in a hive and your trying to save raise to get it, and you redeam out-okay, your alive, but the marines capped the hive so it doesn’t matter.
Now for lurks:
Movement has some genuine value for lurks-adrenaline can be useful early on, HOWEVER it isn’t really useful for gorges, so that is a big strike against dropping movements first. Celerity is a waste, as is silence(it can be useful but 99% of the time most people don’t know how to play a silence lurk). Defense has marginal value: You may regen with it while hiding in a vent, but also-since there are few lurks early on this value is mitigated considerably. ALSO since you have low energy, you wont be making spore clouds very fast anyway, so even if you live the speed you crank out your damage is slowed.
Now for SKULKS!
Early to mid game SKULKS are the most common player class for aliens, so whatever helps them the most is the best tower.
Defense: Defense has no huge value for a skulk by itself. You redeem-okay, that’s a 5 second wait on responding and you have lost control of the area you were fighting for. Regen-same thing, if a skulk dies, who cares? Carapace: This value of this is debatable, IF they have a steady supply of gorges/D chambers healing them between killing this can be useful, this however usually isn’t the case. Carapace can be useful, however a good marine is going to kill a poor skulk, even if it takes a few extra bullets. Movement really isn’t of great value for a skulk. Silence is nice, but wallhack is better(explained further down). Adrenaline is completely worthless for a skulk, no real explanation needed there. MOST people don’t like celerity as a skulk-as they move SO fast they have trouble controlling them. YES you have a big ****, and you are about to scream “BUT I AM THE MOST LEETEST SKULK EVAHH!!!!! I PWN WITH CELERITY!” well most people don’t, not even server vets. Celerity skulks are hard to control, so most people don’t use them.
Now for sensory!
Sensory has two upgrades which are very valuable to ALL three classes.
Cloak is perfect for all 3. Is a gorge saving for res to drop ventilation hive when he hears marines coming? No problem! Hide, call for help! While your hiding and waiting for help you can even tell your team what the attack is composed of, how many, what weapons, what they are building etc. The same applies for a skulk or lurk. NO upgrade allows you to hold a spot without fighting besides cloak. The exact same can be done by a skulk or lurk if they are suddenly in a situation they don’t think they can win: Stay hidden and call for help, tell your team mates what are going on. You CAN try to hide in the shadows, but this isn’t as dependable.
Scent of Fear has to be the best upgrade in the game-bar none.
It…. Is…. A….. wallhack! I don’t understand how people don’t see its value. I was just in a match where people said it is worthless-their ears are a wallhack! LOL yes I’m sure they are! Your ears can tell you EXACTLY where the marines are with pinpoint precision and how many, 30 feet away-longer if they are injured. For a gorge this is the ultimate defense: If he is saving for res, he will see the enemy coming LONG before he does. He can go hide behind a wall nearby and tell his team what’s going on as he waits for help.
Lurk’s might like adrenaline or regen, but similar to above, what will make them live the longest? If you know when there is a threat nearby, you can expect that threat and maneuver around it. If you know where the enemy is, you can get away-its THAT simple. They cant kill you if they cant get to you!
For skulks, wallhack is the ultimate pwnage. Run around the map till you see a group of marines, mirror them from behind or the sides. Predict their route, hang on a ceiling… POW! Some people say cloak is better for a skulk. Cloak is VERY useful for a skulk-HOWEVER scent of fear will let them hide by knowing where the marines are coming from AND let them more easily kill them!
You want to attack someplace but you don’t know if there are any marines around? Now you do! You know EXACTLY where they are, and that gives you an ENORMEOUS advantage!
But wait, there’s more! For three easy payments of $29.95 I will throw in the cutter blade which makes thousands of julians fries in minutes! Er wait, wrong pitch!
MORE SO however, sensory chambers have a VERY large area of effect. You can drop a sensory chamber and poof-EVERYONE in the facility has cloak-so now they can hide AND have wallhack. Drop a sensory in the ceiling in cargo chamber? Now everyone in a large range can hide invisible AND see where the enemy is coming from-what could be more powerful then that?
You may be able to heal, or kill faster, or sneak(silence is useless the second they have motion) BUT with sensory you can see where the enemy is coming from, AND hide from them. If you have complete control over where and when you fight, you have an ENORMEOUS advantage.
P.S. If you want defense first and I’m an alien-tough, its utterly worthless, if you want a DC, drop it yourself(though if everyone says MC I’ll gladly drop a MC).
Comments
EDIT: Elaboration
Most early gorges are tomp gorges only. This is due partially to the reduced cost, and partially to the fact that the best way to get res to build MORE stuff is not to wait but to go BACK to skulk (~kill) and get res for kills.
Lerks are mostly useless without adrenaline unless you're the type of lerk who sits/walks while attacking and doesn't need to fly much.
Best upgrades per-class (my opinion of course)
Skulk -
celerity or silence - both are immensely useful to a skulk
carapace with regeneration being useful but not as much.
Gorge -
celerity, silence, or adrenaline are all equally useful.
carapace or regen
Lerk-
adrenaline
regeneration
Fade -
adrenaline or celerity
carapace
Onos -
Regen, carapace, redemption
scent of fear, cloaking OR adrenaline, celerity
Realistically, cloak is good for slowing marines but when it comes time to actually attack them it's nearly useless. Heaven forbid you have to take a hive back with only sensory upgrades.
For all you little naysayers who are about to post saying "OMG NEWB OBSERVATORY COUNTERS SENSORY" you are right it does counter it, however, he said that sensory is the best FIRST HIVE CHAMBER and if you are a commander you dont have the res to build obs everywhere at game start. Even if you build a ob first thing off you have enough energy for a woping 1 scan before you run out and then have to wait 5+ mins for more energy.
Yes this applies to you Ollj.
Ahnteis, fortunately by the time that you get fades and onos you should have another hive and that means a second chamber. Obviously he is talking about the first chamber in the game for which you will primarily be skulks for, thank you for agreeing with us.
Yeah, one time. Then the Marines go "COM, they went sensory!" and the COM goes: "LOL!! Are you serious?! Ok guys, we might actually win one for the Marines..."
COM scans area, Marines run in and kill sheepish looking skulks and then knife the Sensory.
As COM I usually go immediatly for a hive lockdown when the Aliens go sensoey. They will be stuck with higher aliens who only have one decent upgrade (usually regen/redemption). Have fun with lerks/gorges/fades without celerity/adren!
I'll be nice and agree that Sensory is a very good first chamber. Not as good as Movement, but very good. That's not the point though, it is USELESS after the starting game is over and Marines start teching up. USELESS: Get this into your brain. USELESS. I know you won't change your midn right now, but in a month or so maybe, you will start to realise this.
Here's the breakdown:
First chamber. Here you need to think: "What will benefit skulks/gorges/lerks the most?". Well D is pretty useless for them so we got either cloaking/SoF or Celerity/Silence/Adren obviously wins hands down. But you also need to consider how useful the chamber will be once the second hive is up. Let's see. Fades and Onos with SoF/Cloaking... are they very useful? I don't think so.
As much as I would love to say that all chambers are equally good, it is just not true. People who don't understand the game or play on inferior servers where you are never up against a decent COM or team of marines, they love sensory. If you can only have ONE chamber, it would have to be D to protect your big investments. If you can only have TWO chamgers, it would have to be M and D, because while D protects the investment, M makes it worth the double amount (at least).
Enough with newbies claiming Sensory is the best. They don't even know how to use it... allow be to deconstruct the "arguments" that this thread offers:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For a gorge early on, the most important thing is survival, living long enough to save up res to drop a nozzle or cap a hive, or sometimes drop OC’s in an important spot. In this respect, for gorges at least, movement is a total waste<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just inane. I have never died to a solo marine as gorge with celerity. ONCE have I managed to kill one as Marine. Celerity gorges easily outruns Marines if they have to, which they don't unless it's a group.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now for lurks:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, it's 'Lerks'. Second, Adrenaline is hands down the most important upgrade for them as any player will tell you (except whatever obstinate kid decides to claim that celerity or whatever is the best).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->MOST people don’t like celerity as a skulk-as they move SO fast they have trouble controlling them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Ok, substitute "MOST people" with "MOST newbies" or "SOME people". Celerity is by far the upgrade that allows skulks to live longer as well as be most effective (cover any map in a matter of seconds and doge bullets like there's no tomorrow). If you're having trouble with celerity, use silence. Silence is one guaranteed Marine kill most of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloak is perfect for all 3. Is a gorge saving for res to drop ventilation hive when he hears marines coming?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok.. why is a gorge "saving res"? I'm just going to stop arguingright here because by now you have made it so clear what sort of players you game with that it is embarrasing. You "save" for a hive by staying SKULK and killing Marines.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You may be able to heal, or kill faster, or sneak(silence is useless the second they have motion) BUT with sensory you can see where the enemy is coming from, AND hide from them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. With S you can hide from the Marines. With M you can KILL them.
Anyway, I hope you get to play on some good servers sometime so you can better understand how it works.
Im confused, how are you going to lock down MOST OF THE RESORCE nozzles and a hive when you are constantly being attacked by invisible skulks due to the sensory chambers that have been (I would assume we are talking about remotly competent aliens here) placed in critical rooms across the map? Even if by some miracle you actually succede in getting all this theoretical res it really won't matter if you can build obs everywere anymore because aliens will all be onos's and fades while also haveing another hive and another chamber and really wont be needing the sensorys that much anymore.
Might I point out that you might consider giving reasons why you think sensory first is stupid and why the people that put them down first are short on logic? Very ironic that you acuse others (who use sensorys) of being stupid and illogical yet neither logic nor intelligence can be found anywhere in your post at all. As it stands right now Ves's post (one of those people that you accuse of being stupid and illogical due to his sensory usage) has totaly crushed you in terms of logic and intelligence.
With S you need to either win immediatly or get 3 hives. That's it.
If Marines live past the 10 minute mark (which they will if they don't suck), you have to get a third hive. If Marines aren't totally braindead, they will have a hive locked down. Now they can just advace with scanner sweeps and take over the whole Map while your SoF Cows run away from the boomsticks.
Alien wins with M first: 90%
Alien wins with D first: 80%
Alien wins with S first: 30%
As it is now, the main use of S is to locate that last hiding Marine with SoF. If you win with S first you're either playing newbie Marines or you had some awesome stuff going on and would have won even quicker and easier with any other chamber.
S is for having fun playing around, not winning.
this post is a test of how the quote ability works on this forum, please ignore. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
test.
a "teamwork" ambush applies without cloaking anyway.
Even if marines blitz a hive, aliens SHOULD be able to get the other one fairly quickly-if they cant then they are vastly out skilled by the marines and its moot anyway(not always true-but usually).
While you have one hive, you usually only have to deal with 3 types of aliens: Skulks, gorges and to a lesser degree lurks. Few people go fade or onos before the second hive as by that time there are not enough res nozzles up.
How can each chamber help each of the three?
For a gorge early on, the most important thing is survival, living long enough to save up res to drop a nozzle or cap a hive, or sometimes drop OC’s in an important spot. In this respect, for gorges at least, movement is a total waste: An “average” marine will take down a gorge even with adrenaline spit, track down a celerity gorge, and silence is just completely useless for a gorge. Defense has SOME value for a gorge-but it is marginal. With a marine chasing you, regen isn’t going to help significantly, nor is carcapace. Redemption may help you live, BUT it wont help you hold a position, if your in a hive and your trying to save raise to get it, and you redeam out-okay, your alive, but the marines capped the hive so it doesn’t matter.
Now for lurks:
Movement has some genuine value for lurks-adrenaline can be useful early on, HOWEVER it isn’t really useful for gorges, so that is a big strike against dropping movements first. Celerity is a waste, as is silence(it can be useful but 99% of the time most people don’t know how to play a silence lurk). Defense has marginal value: You may regen with it while hiding in a vent, but also-since there are few lurks early on this value is mitigated considerably. ALSO since you have low energy, you wont be making spore clouds very fast anyway, so even if you live the speed you crank out your damage is slowed.
Now for SKULKS!
Early to mid game SKULKS are the most common player class for aliens, so whatever helps them the most is the best tower.
Defense: Defense has no huge value for a skulk by itself. You redeem-okay, that’s a 5 second wait on responding and you have lost control of the area you were fighting for. Regen-same thing, if a skulk dies, who cares? Carapace: This value of this is debatable, IF they have a steady supply of gorges/D chambers healing them between killing this can be useful, this however usually isn’t the case. Carapace can be useful, however a good marine is going to kill a poor skulk, even if it takes a few extra bullets. Movement really isn’t of great value for a skulk. Silence is nice, but wallhack is better(explained further down). Adrenaline is completely worthless for a skulk, no real explanation needed there. MOST people don’t like celerity as a skulk-as they move SO fast they have trouble controlling them. YES you have a big ****, and you are about to scream “BUT I AM THE MOST LEETEST SKULK EVAHH!!!!! I PWN WITH CELERITY!” well most people don’t, not even server vets. Celerity skulks are hard to control, so most people don’t use them.
Now for sensory!
Sensory has two upgrades which are very valuable to ALL three classes.
Cloak is perfect for all 3. Is a gorge saving for res to drop ventilation hive when he hears marines coming? No problem! Hide, call for help! While your hiding and waiting for help you can even tell your team what the attack is composed of, how many, what weapons, what they are building etc. The same applies for a skulk or lurk. NO upgrade allows you to hold a spot without fighting besides cloak. The exact same can be done by a skulk or lurk if they are suddenly in a situation they don’t think they can win: Stay hidden and call for help, tell your team mates what are going on. You CAN try to hide in the shadows, but this isn’t as dependable.
Scent of Fear has to be the best upgrade in the game-bar none.
It…. Is…. A….. wallhack! I don’t understand how people don’t see its value. I was just in a match where people said it is worthless-their ears are a wallhack! LOL yes I’m sure they are! Your ears can tell you EXACTLY where the marines are with pinpoint precision and how many, 30 feet away-longer if they are injured. For a gorge this is the ultimate defense: If he is saving for res, he will see the enemy coming LONG before he does. He can go hide behind a wall nearby and tell his team what’s going on as he waits for help.
Lurk’s might like adrenaline or regen, but similar to above, what will make them live the longest? If you know when there is a threat nearby, you can expect that threat and maneuver around it. If you know where the enemy is, you can get away-its THAT simple. They cant kill you if they cant get to you!
For skulks, wallhack is the ultimate pwnage. Run around the map till you see a group of marines, mirror them from behind or the sides. Predict their route, hang on a ceiling… POW! Some people say cloak is better for a skulk. Cloak is VERY useful for a skulk-HOWEVER scent of fear will let them hide by knowing where the marines are coming from AND let them more easily kill them!
You want to attack someplace but you don’t know if there are any marines around? Now you do! You know EXACTLY where they are, and that gives you an ENORMEOUS advantage!
But wait, there’s more! For three easy payments of $29.95 I will throw in the cutter blade which makes thousands of julians fries in minutes! Er wait, wrong pitch!
MORE SO however, sensory chambers have a VERY large area of effect. You can drop a sensory chamber and poof-EVERYONE in the facility has cloak-so now they can hide AND have wallhack. Drop a sensory in the ceiling in cargo chamber? Now everyone in a large range can hide invisible AND see where the enemy is coming from-what could be more powerful then that?
You may be able to heal, or kill faster, or sneak(silence is useless the second they have motion) BUT with sensory you can see where the enemy is coming from, AND hide from them. If you have complete control over where and when you fight, you have an ENORMEOUS advantage.
P.S. If you want defense first and I’m an alien-tough, its utterly worthless, if you want a DC, drop it yourself(though if everyone says MC I’ll gladly drop a MC). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, sensory is a big pile of dog crap. Too many nubs place it and it screws the aliens, even when its placed in proper locations its not always super effective. Movement>Sensory. You can do everything wonderfully with silence, if they get Motion tracking, then you grab celerity or adreline.
For all you little naysayers who are about to post saying "OMG NEWB OBSERVATORY COUNTERS SENSORY" you are right it does counter it, however, he said that sensory is the best FIRST HIVE CHAMBER and if you are a commander you dont have the res to build obs everywhere at game start. Even if you build a ob first thing off you have enough energy for a woping 1 scan before you run out and then have to wait 5+ mins for more energy.
Yes this applies to you Ollj.
Ahnteis, fortunately by the time that you get fades and onos you should have another hive and that means a second chamber. Obviously he is talking about the first chamber in the game for which you will primarily be skulks for, thank you for agreeing with us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. If they have sensory, I build multiple obs and watch my marines destroy the crap out of those stupid skulks.
Im confused, how are you going to lock down MOST OF THE RESORCE nozzles and a hive when you are constantly being attacked by invisible skulks due to the sensory chambers that have been (I would assume we are talking about remotly competent aliens here) placed in critical rooms across the map? Even if by some miracle you actually succede in getting all this theoretical res it really won't matter if you can build obs everywere anymore because aliens will all be onos's and fades while also haveing another hive and another chamber and really wont be needing the sensorys that much anymore.
Might I point out that you might consider giving reasons why you think sensory first is stupid and why the people that put them down first are short on logic? Very ironic that you acuse others (who use sensorys) of being stupid and illogical yet neither logic nor intelligence can be found anywhere in your post at all. As it stands right now Ves's post (one of those people that you accuse of being stupid and illogical due to his sensory usage) has totaly crushed you in terms of logic and intelligence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they have to place them all around the map to cloak all of them, and its early game, I doubt your going to get into vital ambush postions right away.
So what have you sacrificed in the long run? At 2 hives, you now have slow, ineffective onos (no adren/celerity). You have fades that can't effectively hit-and-run (no adren). You have almost useless lerks (they <b>really</b> need adren). You have gorges that can very, very, very slowly destroy marine outposts (it would sure be nice to have adren+close MC to bilebomb). Skulks...doesn't really matter in the mid/late game what they have.
If you actually went for MC at 2nd hive, then you would might have a better time with gorges, lerks (but no regen really hurts there effectiveness), and fades (can metabolize), but your onos are now very vulnerable. Not to mention the fact that your assault troops are now very reliant on gorges to stay close for healing.
It simply comes down to this: If you can play a <b>very</b> strong opening game with SC's, then you might win the game quickly/easily. BUT, if you make some mistakes and the marines get a hive or two, then you will really have your work cut out for you.
For all you little naysayers who are about to post saying "OMG NEWB OBSERVATORY COUNTERS SENSORY" you are right it does counter it, however, he said that sensory is the best FIRST HIVE CHAMBER and if you are a commander you dont have the res to build obs everywhere at game start. Even if you build a ob first thing off you have enough energy for a woping 1 scan before you run out and then have to wait 5+ mins for more energy.
Yes this applies to you Ollj.
Ahnteis, fortunately by the time that you get fades and onos you should have another hive and that means a second chamber. Obviously he is talking about the first chamber in the game for which you will primarily be skulks for, thank you for agreeing with us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. If they have sensory, I build multiple obs and watch my marines destroy the crap out of those stupid skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know there is a quote button so you dont have to post three times in a row right? Hit "View all posts and copy paste them using the /quote thing.
they are equally bad and good.
Sensory is good for the lower end of evolutions where they need to hide from bigger meaner marines. cloaked when gorge, how many times hath thou saveth me? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Defence is good for the bigger evolutions, since they get the things they need to last longer; redemption for onos, regen/carapace for fade, regen for lerk, etc
Movement is good for making the evolutions more effective; a skulk can bite forever with adren, fades can blink indefinatly, etc.
Scan removes the cloaking of SCs/players [and so do obs. obs nearby = buggered]
Weapons/upgrades removes the effectiveness of DCs in general; murders mostly sensory, celerity not hit that hard
MT removes some effectiveness of silence [and some other upgrades]
Actually that right there is blatant falsehood, whenever I com I always pray that they wont get sensorys and I have never seen another com rejoice when aliens went sensory's either. Please try to avoid makeing/dreaming up little scripts that would be amusing if they weren't so untrue.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by "one time"... if a skulk ambushes and kills a few marines on account of being invisible around a sensory chamber he can always go back invisible and do it again... its not like there is a number of times that you can go invisible limit around a sensory chamber. If what you mean is that he won't catch the marines by supprise a second time, uh, yeah he will, you can move while invisible around a sensory chamber, therefore you could be anywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->COM scans area, Marines run in and kill sheepish looking skulks and then knife the Sensory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be diffIcult to do seeing as how skulks are a match for marines even without being invisible. With sensory chambers skulks kill/death ratio is like 3/1. If the area was scanned then the skulks loose their advantage of invisiblilty and their ratio would become at the least 1/1 instead, skulks still have the advantage in this case seeing as how they can reinforce faster than marines. I would hardly call that "killing sheepish looking skulks." Your plan seems to depend apon alien suckage to a extreme degree.
Let us also not forget that we are talking about sensory as a FIRST HIVE CHAMBER that means it will be at the start of the game. Might I remind you that at the start of the game you have enough energy in your obs for a (as I mentioned before) whoping 1 scan that lasts all of like 10 seconds? You think that your marines can kill all the "sheepish looking skulks" then knife the sensory chamber (hopefully there is only 1 around the area) in under 10 seconds?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As COM I usually go immediatly for a hive lockdown when the Aliens go sensoey. They will be stuck with higher aliens who only have one decent upgrade (usually regen/redemption). Have fun with lerks/gorges/fades without celerity/adren!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um well seeing as how in most games aliens put down sensorys first and marines secure a hive yet aliens still win I would say that your gloating is kind of pathetic. Once aliens have 2 hives they have no problem taking their last hive back from you even without the (questionably?) all critical celerity and adren. If you actually manage to hold the third hive from the aliens then they will just destroy your main base. If after that you manage to relocate to the hive it really doesn't matter because your going to loose in the end anyway, it is just a longer game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll be nice and agree that Sensory is a very good first chamber. Not as good as Movement, but very good. That's not the point though, it is USELESS after the starting game is over and Marines start teching up. USELESS: Get this into your brain. USELESS. I know you won't change your midn right now, but in a month or so maybe, you will start to realise this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes your absolutely right, I would much rather be able to move a little faster OR be totaly silence (but as easily seen as normal) with movement chambers than have a wallhack and be totaly invisible at the same time with sensorys. (this was a sarcastic statment incase you cant figure out that having a wallhack and being invisible at the same time is better than being silent OR being faster.)
I would say that sensorys become less effective after the beginning of the game, however, saying that they are useless is once again a intentional (at least I hope it is intentional) misstatement. I find it hard to believe that you can say that scent of fear is useless at any point in the game with a straight face. Of course you may be making a comment on how marines always loose in 2.0 and cleverly saying that scent of fear is useless because you already know where the marines are... bottled up in marine start.
Regardless of the fact that sensorys become less usefull farther into the game, durring the part of the game that they are usefull they simply own. In other words I would much rather have a chamber that simply owns marines then becomes less usefull as the game goes on (you would of course be getting more chambers latter in the game) than have a chamber that is mediocre for the majority of the game and only comes into its prime tward the end.
Another way to think of it is that if you totaly crush marines with sensorys at the start of the game does it really matter if they become less useful later? Marines will have already lost the game due to the raping they took from sensorys, thus alowing you pretty much the run of the map and freedom to get any other chamber you want to replace the declining sensory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the breakdown:
First chamber. Here you need to think: "What will benefit skulks/gorges/lerks the most?". Well D is pretty useless for them so we got either cloaking/SoF or Celerity/Silence/Adren obviously wins hands down. But you also need to consider how useful the chamber will be once the second hive is up. Let's see. Fades and Onos with SoF/Cloaking... are they very useful? I don't think so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well first point that I'm not going to really spend much time on is how exactly are defence chambers worthless? Not entirely sure how taking more damage, regenerating health, and never dieing can be called worthless.
Second point, how does either moveing faster, being silent, or haveing more energy better than both being invisible and wallhacking at the same time? You say that movement wins hands down but you don't give any reason why it wins hands down and left to my own devices (and I would assume many other people) I can only logicaly find sensorys to be better.
Scent of fear owns for fade, he is a hit and run class and scent of fear increase's his effectiveness by 5 times. If you honestly don't think that scent of fear helps fades immensly I would recommend actually playing 2.0 instead of just posting.
You are right about onos ,however, scent of fear and cloaking are not as helpfull for him as they are for other classes. Your point about sensorys not helping onoses much is, well.... pointless because by the time you have onoses you would have other chambers that help the onos more.
We are talking about sensory being the best start game chamber, not the sensory chambers effects after the marines have already lost because there are 5 onos's running around.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As much as I would love to say that all chambers are equally good, it is just not true. People who don't understand the game or play on inferior servers where you are never up against a decent COM or team of marines, they love sensory. If you can only have ONE chamber, it would have to be D to protect your big investments. If you can only have TWO chamgers, it would have to be M and D, because while D protects the investment, M makes it worth the double amount (at least).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would once again disagree with you, all chambers are equaly good... only at different times in the game. Sensorys are good early game because they alow relativly inferior species to own marines with little effore simply because marines can't see them. Defencives are good middle game when you get heavyer classe's like fade and onos in order to extend their longlivity. Movements are best late game when aliens need that little bit of extra umf to crush the marines.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Enough with newbies claiming Sensory is the best. They don't even know how to use it... allow be to deconstruct the "arguments" that this thread offers:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aaa yes, if someone disagrees with your opinion then they must be newb. Dam even I must be newb despite the fact that my individual skill level is higher than yours will ever be.
Calling me a newbie because I disagree with your flimsy arguments (o wait you didn't offer any arguments, all you said was "movements are better sensorys are useless, you are newb if you like sensorys") is childish in the extreme. At least people who like sensorys can offer reasons why they are better.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, substitute "MOST people" with "MOST newbies" or "SOME people". Celerity is by far the upgrade that allows skulks to live longer as well as be most effective (cover any map in a matter of seconds and doge bullets like there's no tomorrow). If you're having trouble with celerity, use silence. Silence is one guaranteed Marine kill most of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok well im not gona touch this other than to once again mention that no matter how fast you can move if the marine can aim or has a shotgun you are dead. On the other hand if you have sensorys you don't even have to move, you can simply sit on the floor untill at marine runs into you and bite him and you are gauranteed to get alot of kills simply because he cant see you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok.. why is a gorge "saving res"? I'm just going to stop arguingright here because by now you have made it so clear what sort of players you game with that it is embarrasing. You "save" for a hive by staying SKULK and killing Marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well one reason a gorge could be saveing res is because he has 13 and wants to put up a res tower? It would take much longer to go skulk and get enough kills for 25 res so you can go gorge then put up a res instead of just waiting for the 2 res you need.
You should really stop for a second and use your brain before you spout off insults about someones playing skill. If anything should be embarassing to you its reading your own post.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah. With S you can hide from the Marines. With M you can KILL them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Son, I realize this may be hard to understand but not only can you hide from marines with sensory you can also kill them. Movement chambers do give you some nice bonus's to your marine killing ability, however, nothing movement chambers give you compair with being invisible and haveing a wallhack at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, I hope you get to play on some good servers sometime so you can better understand how it works.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Major case of "big man on campus" from this kid. The problem is that we have played on good servers and understand how it works. You on the other hand evidently have a difficulty accepting fact for what it is. Either that or you know that sensorys are better early game but you just can't admit that YOU ARE WRONG so you keep calling people who say sensorys are better newbs because you have no actuall facts to back you up.
Actually that right there is blatant falsehood, whenever I com I always pray that they wont get sensorys and I have never seen another com rejoice when aliens went sensory's either. Please try to avoid makeing/dreaming up little scripts that would be amusing if they weren't so untrue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have some severe problems reading son. Look at the top of the page and you'll see me jump for joy if they go sense first. Frankly you sound like you're not a very good comm or everyone on the servers you play on is nubtastic.
Lets see, you have 100 res at start, you build 1 ip (20 res) you build 1 armory (25 res). Now if I count correctly that leaves you will 55 res. This is enough res to build 2 obs at start of game (a foolish move IMO). Wow, 2 obs will really wipe out any hope of the aliens winning, especialy right at the game start like that. The energy that you have for 2 scan sweaps will really teach them aliens a lesson... but wait... you have to know where to scanner sweap at. That isn't a difficult problem, just send out all your marines and when they start getting slaughtered by invis skulks you can scanner sweap at that spot... hopefully there are still enough of your marines left to do anything and hopefully it wasn't just 1 cloaked skulk ambushing your marines.
Even if your 2 obs at start of game miraculously somehow makes it so your marines have a chance against SC skulks I find it hard to believe that they will "destroy the crap out of those stupid skulks" seeing as how skulks even without sensorys are a match for marines.
If you manage to lock down 2 hives faster than the aliens can get 1 hive up (that would be their second hive but they only have to put 1 up since the first hive is already there) then the aliens suck and you would win no mater what chamber they put up first.
I find that 3 sensory chambers lock down the most critical rooms in a map....
Why do you doubt that skulks (who can run the entire map in a very short amount of time) can get into vital ambush positions right away? Marines have to build their stuff at the start of the map, aliens can get in ambush position uncontested and very quickly.
Im confused, how are you going to lock down MOST OF THE RESORCE nozzles and a hive when you are constantly being attacked by invisible skulks due to the sensory chambers that have been (I would assume we are talking about remotly competent aliens here) placed in critical rooms across the map? Even if by some miracle you actually succede in getting all this theoretical res it really won't matter if you can build obs everywere anymore because aliens will all be onos's and fades while also haveing another hive and another chamber and really wont be needing the sensorys that much anymore.
Might I point out that you might consider giving reasons why you think sensory first is stupid and why the people that put them down first are short on logic? Very ironic that you acuse others (who use sensorys) of being stupid and illogical yet neither logic nor intelligence can be found anywhere in your post at all. As it stands right now Ves's post (one of those people that you accuse of being stupid and illogical due to his sensory usage) has totaly crushed you in terms of logic and intelligence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The abilities defense and movement chambers give you are strictly offensive and can only be countered with marine advancement in technology. Sensory isn't just countered, it is completely negated with observatory (which is like 15 res). Sensory on first hive is a liability. Aggressive and smart marines can't be beaten with sensory. Sensory networks take time, dedication, large amount resources, and very dumb marines to get up in a way that they will be effective (if you have all of these then you really didn't need sensory chambers in the first place). It was cute when 2.0 just came out, now it just obnoxious. A few people going gorge to put down three defense or movement chambers then going skulk and attacking the marines is the best way for the aliens to start. You wouldn't need to protect the hives or your buildings with sensory if you actually attacked the marines.
Thanks for the imput gramps, I do now see that you did indeed jump for joy at the prospect of sensorys first. I am proven wrong, there is now more than 1 commander that is happy at sensorys first.
As for your childish attempt at trying to discredit me by insulting my skill/calling me newb instead of actually useing hard facts, grow up kid.
I have no idea what the exact ratio of wins/losse's that I have goten as a commander are. All I know is that I have won alot more than I have lost.
I play on 50+ servers but I'm sure that everyone on all of them are newbs because they don't follow your example of rejoicing when aliens go sensory.
Try offering some facts (that I can't easily crush) as to why you rejoice when aliens go sensory, maybe that way I will take you more seriously. Your current spewing "NEWB NEWB U PLAY ON NUB SEVERS AND U SUCK" really doesn't do anything to convice me that sensorys are bad to go with first.
How does sensory help you break the two hive lockdown I manage to pull off 75% of the time?
Er.. defence chambers give you defencive upgrades.
Obs are 25 res.
Aggressive marines will be slaughtered by invisible skulks because their commander can't support them with enough scans (obs only have enough energy for 1 scan then you have to wait a long time for the energy for another) nor does he have the res to build enough observatories (which will probably be destroyed before it can get built in the range of a sensory) to negate the 10 res sensory chambers.
Time and dedication WTH are you talking about, if 3 skulks run to critical parts of the map, go gorge and drop a sensory in a hard to find location you can have a pretty good sensory network up in about 30 seconds not only do u get a sensory network but with those 3 SC's you get full scent of fear upgrades making it impossible for marines to take aliens by suprise.
Large amout of resorces? It takes 10 res per sensory even if you count going gorge it is only 20, you will make that much back in a very short amount of time as a sof skulk that hangs out near a sensory chamber.
Ah... who said that I don't attack marines with sensorys.. the point of sensorys is that they can give you sensory upgrades and they can also be put in forward positions to assist your attacking the marines as well as simply locking them in their base if they try to bust out.