<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Oct 7 2003, 02:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Oct 7 2003, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ya I rahter just see light spots rather than the whole vent glowing bright whatever... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You could reduce the bright spots each light causes by using a lower brightness, setting _falloff to inverse_linear (1), and setting _fade to a small value. Try 0.05 -- even though the NS fgd lists _fade as an integer, the compiler uses it as a float; the distance between the light and texture is scaled by fade when calculating brightness. IIRC _fade doesn't have any effect after the first bounce.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Guspaz+Oct 7 2003, 12:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guspaz @ Oct 7 2003, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Oct 6 2003, 02:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Oct 6 2003, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Oct 5 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Oct 5 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just kidding I got you... sorta... though why not just convert your PNGs to JPGs? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Simple... I wouldn't be able to have an alpha-channel in the image then, so the 'gradient' in the background of my avatar would have to be manually made for this forum, and if they ever changed the colours at all, I'd have to rebuild my Avatar. As it is, I use the same Avatar on every forum I'm on, and it blends nicely into the background on them all. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> PNG alpha channels only work in some browsers. They don't work in IE. Almost everybody uses IE. Everybody just sees your avatar as having a white solid background, with no gradients. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not by a longshot, Guspaz. Just those who use what is handed to them by default use IE. Personally, I would be severely handicapped in modding if I did not have Mozilla's tabbed browsing. As well, a number of the plugins are just plain usability-cool factor.. like the pie menus plugin, or mouse-gestures.
I'd say that primarily AOL users stick with IE... but IIRC, even AOL was migrating over to Netscape. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Oct 7 2003, 04:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Oct 7 2003, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not by a longshot, Guspaz. Just those who use what is handed to them by default use IE. Personally, I would be severely handicapped in modding if I did not have Mozilla's tabbed browsing. As well, a number of the plugins are just plain usability-cool factor.. like the pie menus plugin, or mouse-gestures.
I'd say that primarily AOL users stick with IE... but IIRC, even AOL was migrating over to Netscape. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm dragging this even farther off topic, but I do have a log of accesses to my avatar, which is linked from my website. I had 3,791 referrals from the NS board in September (93% of my total hits since my homepage is essentially a single page of technical information plus some images that aren't indexed), and 77.5% of my overall traffic was from users on IE 6.0. Netscape 7.x was second with 7.7%, but that's probably skewed upward because I'm using Netscape 7.1 as one of the browsers for testing my updated site, which refers back to the online URL for some images.
I think it's likely that nearly 80% of computer users do use what's handed to them by default--what that says about the users is a topic for another thread <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. Guspaz wasn't wrong, though, when he said that the people requesting avatar images from this board are mostly IE users.
<!--QuoteBegin--Guspaz+Oct 7 2003, 12:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guspaz @ Oct 7 2003, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> PNG alpha channels only work in some browsers. They don't work in IE. Almost everybody uses IE. Everybody just sees your avatar as having a white solid background, with no gradients. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, IE supports PNG Alpha Channels just fine. MicroSoft is just too lazy to fix their broken code to support them without JavaScript hacks to 'repair' their errors. And yes, if this board actually wanted to, it could support alpha-channel PNG files Just Fine on IE, especially since it doesn't have dynamicly-changing images to worry about complicating the code. It's literally a 3-line header you tack onto any HTML file that automatically looks through all images, finds the PNGs, and flags them as Alpha-Channel. Yes, that's it. You need to manually tell IE... hey, this is an Alpha-Channel file, it's too braindead to use the tags in the image itself to realize this. :-P
Now... back to Nancy editing, or as this topic is for now... Editing NS with GtkRadiant. :-)
Unfortunately, I've found several 'flaws' in the NS.fgd file, and I'm working through them. Various little glitches that may or may not be incorrect handling of FGD files by GtkRadiant, specifically if something is given a size(XYZ)(XYZ) option, it can't be a @SolidClass entity, since size(XYZ)(XYZ) can only apply to @PointClass entities. So, since the size(XYZ)(XYZ) token is parsed last, it takes precedence, switching the entity-type to a @PointClass on the fly.
Yes, this is what caused me a major delay, was getting bitten by this and suddenly having all my func_seethroughs turned into point-based entities. :-P
You can get the core GtkRadiant build that's mostly compatable with HL <a href='http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/BT/torrents/test/' target='_blank'>here</a>, and from there I'll be building an installer to drop in the NS-specific stuff (including XP-Cagey's tools) and so-forth.
BTW, Cagey? p12RC2 works beautifully. No errors during the builds I've been working on handing Lazer and DarkATi yet, I'd say it's Good To Go. =^.^=
Alright, downloading it right now. I'm gonna go to bed soon, but I'm taking the day off of school tomorrow. (got some stupid field day) Hopefully I can work with radiant tonight and get it working. Just waiting for the nice little installer. :]
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Oct 7 2003, 08:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Oct 7 2003, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BTW, Cagey? p12RC2 works beautifully. No errors during the builds I've been working on handing Lazer and DarkATi yet, I'd say it's Good To Go. =^.^= <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Built and released -- thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Cagey, those results may very well be skewed out of proportion. Most alternative browsers, opera for example, have the option to identify as other browsers. Right now at this very moment in time, my Opera is set to identify as IE 6.0.
I think a poll in Off topic would suit a browser debate more. If anyone wishes to continue, make a new topic over in off topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In any case...
Nancy is so close I can almost feel it... Wait... No, no, not nancy, that's just my shoe...
Well, in any case, keep up the good work, dont let no badgers distract you guys <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cronos+Oct 8 2003, 03:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Oct 8 2003, 03:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cagey, those results may very well be skewed out of proportion. Most alternative browsers, opera for example, have the option to identify as other browsers. Right now at this very moment in time, my Opera is set to identify as IE 6.0.
I think a poll in Off topic would suit a browser debate more. If anyone wishes to continue, make a new topic over in off topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes make a new topic.
Anyway, how do I get Radiant to work with Half-Life now?
<!--QuoteBegin--Fluffybunny+Oct 8 2003, 10:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fluffybunny @ Oct 8 2003, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not getting this whole radient thing. Why not just use hammer and compile the .map made with hammer? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because Wolf doesn't use Hammer and he re-texed everything in Radiant and .map is a crappy format for importing/exporting repeatedly in other editors and this is a run-on sentence with improper punctuation but oh well you follow me well enough I hope.
No see, my texture job across the whole map was FINE. I could have done slight tweaks here and there too. What WolfWings did was clip and null the map, attach the vents, and other slight tweaks like that. Now if he only used hammer for that (hammer is pretty simple for use with things like that...) then we would probably have this thing off to Flayra by now...
EDIT: As an addition to this, I really think our whole problem right now is that WolfWings won't use hammer. I understand, radiant probably is better. BUT in this situation it isn't helping because a retexture of the whole map due to needing to make it a .map file (which doesn't save all the texture coordinates correctly) is going to delay this for days.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Oct 8 2003, 10:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Oct 8 2003, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No see, my texture job across the whole map was FINE. I could have done slight tweaks here and there too. What WolfWings did was clip and null the map, attach the vents, and other slight tweaks like that. Now if he only used hammer for that (hammer is pretty simple for use with things like that...) then we would probably have this thing off to Flayra by now...
EDIT: As an addition to this, I really think our whole problem right now is that WolfWings won't use hammer. I understand, radiant probably is better. BUT in this situation it isn't helping because a retexture of the whole map due to needing to make it a .map file (which doesn't save all the texture coordinates correctly) is going to delay this for days. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not the 'map' format. It is one of the many map formats that does not save texture coordinates like Hammer does <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> (I mean: Finally you use the map format to compile the whole thing and if it lost the texture coords it would look a bit weird <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) Must be really annoying to turn all those textures right over and over again. What about QuArK? Didn't it work for conversion between the formats?
The real problem here is that GtkRadiant doesn't support 'align to face' on ANY texture. You have to keep the textures 'align to world' and adjust them there, otherwise Radiant loses the texture coordinates rather badly. :-/
Another problem is that I really <b><i>can't</i></b> use Hammer... I've tried. I've struggled with it for an hour to try to do what I can accomplish in less than 5 minutes in GtkRadiant. I just don't think the way Hammer requires, having to switch between texturing, camera, brush, and the other modes just breaks my thinking entirely. I've sat there for half an hour trying to get the camera where I want to check that a 'slice' operation was aligned right, something I can do with my off-hand on the keyboard in great detail in GtkRadiant while manipulating brushes.
At this point, we have 3 options. 1) We skip going for 2.1, and re-texture the whole map and likely migrate all of us to Radiant. 2) I don't help with the clipping, and can't do anything further with the map without causing more harm than good, and we lose whatever work I've put in so far since being handed the map for clipping and texture-adjustment. 3) I export whatever is requested, and someone else imports it into Hammer with the original Nancy .rmf file.
I'm guessing we're not going with #1, as it's asking too much of you both, or at least you'll think so, Lazer.
If I'm out say so, I'll stop monitoring this thread and leave you two in peace. I don't see how the work I've done so far can be feasably exported, like the texture minimalization I've been doing, or anything beyond the most basic of the vent layouts, so I don't see how #3 would save us any time over #1, and #2 also ends up taking forever because all the work I've done so far has to be thrown out the window, effectively, as you can't 'skulk-clip' only one part of the map.
And no, I'm not avoiding the thread, I've just been busy with Real Life this week, things like buying groceries, and paying rent. =-.-=
Alright well hmm... I'm really thinking it would be most efficienct if you just exported a lot of the clip and null stuff and the vent system and then I just attach it all. After that you tell me the all the compile options to use since I'm not sure exactly which ones you were using. Seeing as how it is pretty much done, this should only take a couple extra days versus like a week.
Problem is... when I tried to compile the version you sent me, Lazer, it came in at 4.5MB texdata used. Much of my work has been reducing the texture-count by removing redundant textures, or moving all uses of a given texture to the '128x128' instead of '256x256' version. =-.-=
I'll export all my skulk-clipping later today, I'm getting ready to head out to work for an hour or four today, so expect a post with the skulk-clipping in the e-mail, and I'll get the heck out of everyones way since there's nothing more I can do here.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Oct 9 2003, 09:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Oct 9 2003, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've sat there for half an hour trying to get the camera where I want to check that a 'slice' operation was aligned right, something I can do with my off-hand on the keyboard in great detail in GtkRadiant while manipulating brushes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> U know that hammer has the ability to fly round the map just like radiant? (press z while on the 3d window)
Could somebody quickly give me a reason why they switched to radiant (an awful map editor btw). I really don't want to troll through 10-15 pages looking. Seems like a stupid decision if it means they don't make the deadline??
You just have to read one post to know that WolfWings used Radiant from the beginning while the other two use Hammer and all are happy with their map editors and find the others confusing because they miss the features they love in their editor or just don't find them in the other. I'd say they all move to QuArK <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--zil+Oct 9 2003, 11:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (zil @ Oct 9 2003, 11:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Oct 9 2003, 09:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Oct 9 2003, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've sat there for half an hour trying to get the camera where I want to check that a 'slice' operation was aligned right, something I can do with my off-hand on the keyboard in great detail in GtkRadiant while manipulating brushes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> U know that hammer has the ability to fly round the map just like radiant? (press z while on the 3d window) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah Wolf, he's right, though on my setup you just hold the left mouse button on the screen and fly around with "WASD" keys.
Oh and we're not "switching" to Radiant, WWs has been using Radiant all along.
<!--QuoteBegin--NerdIII+Oct 9 2003, 12:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NerdIII @ Oct 9 2003, 12:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You just have to read one post to know that WolfWings used Radiant from the beginning while the other two use Hammer and all are happy with their map editors and find the others confusing because they miss the features they love in their editor or just don't find them in the other. I'd say they all move to QuArK <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry Nerd, QuArK won't run on my computer. OpenGL is bugged due to my old GFX Card. Anyway VHE is what I grew up mapping in, not just for HL, but period. I like it's oddities and have grown to embrace them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Edgecrusher+Oct 9 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Oct 9 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> pardon my ignorance <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it's OK, you just didn't know. It does "SuX0rxz" that WWs uses Radiant and we use VHE but there isn't much we can do about it really. We may have to pass up Official 2.1 Inclusion and just get it done right on our own time, no deadlines.
when exactly did the team become aware that you were using radient wolfwings? might have been a point of importance earlier on <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Oct 9 2003, 04:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Oct 9 2003, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Problem is... when I tried to compile the version you sent me, Lazer, it came in at 4.5MB texdata used. Much of my work has been reducing the texture-count by removing redundant textures, or moving all uses of a given texture to the '128x128' instead of '256x256' version. =-.-=
I'll export all my skulk-clipping later today, I'm getting ready to head out to work for an hour or four today, so expect a post with the skulk-clipping in the e-mail, and I'll get the heck out of everyones way since there's nothing more I can do here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd rather not see anybody's work go to waste -- how about this for a solution:
Write a quick map merging tool with the following special properites: <ul><li>new brushes are imported in their entirety<li>brushes not in the imported version are dropped from the merge<li>texture alignment information for brushes from the previous (Hammer) build is preserved--the Radiant build doesn't overwrite the alignment numbers<li>texture name information is imported (so that the 128x128 replacements are used, BEVEL clips are inserted, redundant textures are dropped)<li>texture names can be flagged to have their scale doubled automatically when they are imported (so that the 128x128 textures scale to match the 256x256 textures they replace). Rescaling could be automated by reading texture sizes in from the WADs, but that's more work.<li>A list of brush numbers with rescaled flags is printed out so that a human can double check the post-scale alignment. </ul>
Using the system above, you can import WW's work and don't have to worry about texture alignments going bad when the brushes are originally done in Hammer and cross ported. It'll take some work to write, but probably less than WW has put into the clipping from what I understand; it's a relatively simple operation to parse each entity, collect the brushes, compare them, and output them back into a file; the operation would be trival if Radiant preserves brush ordering, which would be the first thing I'd check.
Just my 2 cents.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when exactly did the team become aware that you were using radient wolfwings? might have been a point of importance earlier on<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nobody on the team (WW included) knew that Radiant's texture handling was incompatible with Hammer's version of the map format when the project started.
Comments
Now how can I get a radiant working for ns?
You could reduce the bright spots each light causes by using a lower brightness, setting _falloff to inverse_linear (1), and setting _fade to a small value. Try 0.05 -- even though the NS fgd lists _fade as an integer, the compiler uses it as a float; the distance between the light and texture is scaled by fade when calculating brightness. IIRC _fade doesn't have any effect after the first bounce.
Simple... I wouldn't be able to have an alpha-channel in the image then, so the 'gradient' in the background of my avatar would have to be manually made for this forum, and if they ever changed the colours at all, I'd have to rebuild my Avatar. As it is, I use the same Avatar on every forum I'm on, and it blends nicely into the background on them all. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PNG alpha channels only work in some browsers. They don't work in IE. Almost everybody uses IE. Everybody just sees your avatar as having a white solid background, with no gradients. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not by a longshot, Guspaz. Just those who use what is handed to them by default use IE. Personally, I would be severely handicapped in modding if I did not have Mozilla's tabbed browsing. As well, a number of the plugins are just plain usability-cool factor.. like the pie menus plugin, or mouse-gestures.
I'd say that primarily AOL users stick with IE... but IIRC, even AOL was migrating over to Netscape. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd say that primarily AOL users stick with IE... but IIRC, even AOL was migrating over to Netscape. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm dragging this even farther off topic, but I do have a log of accesses to my avatar, which is linked from my website. I had 3,791 referrals from the NS board in September (93% of my total hits since my homepage is essentially a single page of technical information plus some images that aren't indexed), and 77.5% of my overall traffic was from users on IE 6.0. Netscape 7.x was second with 7.7%, but that's probably skewed upward because I'm using Netscape 7.1 as one of the browsers for testing my updated site, which refers back to the online URL for some images.
I think it's likely that nearly 80% of computer users do use what's handed to them by default--what that says about the users is a topic for another thread <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. Guspaz wasn't wrong, though, when he said that the people requesting avatar images from this board are mostly IE users.
EDIT: spellin'
Actually, IE supports PNG Alpha Channels just fine. MicroSoft is just too lazy to fix their broken code to support them without JavaScript hacks to 'repair' their errors.
And yes, if this board actually wanted to, it could support alpha-channel PNG files Just Fine on IE, especially since it doesn't have dynamicly-changing images to worry about complicating the code. It's literally a 3-line header you tack onto any HTML file that automatically looks through all images, finds the PNGs, and flags them as Alpha-Channel. Yes, that's it. You need to manually tell IE... hey, this is an Alpha-Channel file, it's too braindead to use the tags in the image itself to realize this. :-P
Unfortunately, I've found several 'flaws' in the NS.fgd file, and I'm working through them. Various little glitches that may or may not be incorrect handling of FGD files by GtkRadiant, specifically if something is given a size(XYZ)(XYZ) option, it can't be a @SolidClass entity, since size(XYZ)(XYZ) can only apply to @PointClass entities. So, since the size(XYZ)(XYZ) token is parsed last, it takes precedence, switching the entity-type to a @PointClass on the fly.
Yes, this is what caused me a major delay, was getting bitten by this and suddenly having all my func_seethroughs turned into point-based entities. :-P
You can get the core GtkRadiant build that's mostly compatable with HL <a href='http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/BT/torrents/test/' target='_blank'>here</a>, and from there I'll be building an installer to drop in the NS-specific stuff (including XP-Cagey's tools) and so-forth.
BTW, Cagey? p12RC2 works beautifully. No errors during the builds I've been working on handing Lazer and DarkATi yet, I'd say it's Good To Go. =^.^=
Built and released -- thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a poll in Off topic would suit a browser debate more. If anyone wishes to continue, make a new topic over in off topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In any case...
Nancy is so close I can almost feel it... Wait... No, no, not nancy, that's just my shoe...
Well, in any case, keep up the good work, dont let no badgers distract you guys <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a poll in Off topic would suit a browser debate more. If anyone wishes to continue, make a new topic over in off topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes make a new topic.
Anyway, how do I get Radiant to work with Half-Life now?
Because Wolf doesn't use Hammer and he re-texed everything in Radiant and .map is a crappy format for importing/exporting repeatedly in other editors and this is a run-on sentence with improper punctuation but oh well you follow me well enough I hope.
~ DarkATi
EDIT: As an addition to this, I really think our whole problem right now is that WolfWings won't use hammer. I understand, radiant probably is better. BUT in this situation it isn't helping because a retexture of the whole map due to needing to make it a .map file (which doesn't save all the texture coordinates correctly) is going to delay this for days.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=49782' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=10&t=49782</a>
EDIT: As an addition to this, I really think our whole problem right now is that WolfWings won't use hammer. I understand, radiant probably is better. BUT in this situation it isn't helping because a retexture of the whole map due to needing to make it a .map file (which doesn't save all the texture coordinates correctly) is going to delay this for days. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not the 'map' format. It is one of the many map formats that does not save texture coordinates like Hammer does <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> (I mean: Finally you use the map format to compile the whole thing and if it lost the texture coords it would look a bit weird <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Must be really annoying to turn all those textures right over and over again. What about QuArK? Didn't it work for conversion between the formats?
Another problem is that I really <b><i>can't</i></b> use Hammer... I've tried. I've struggled with it for an hour to try to do what I can accomplish in less than 5 minutes in GtkRadiant. I just don't think the way Hammer requires, having to switch between texturing, camera, brush, and the other modes just breaks my thinking entirely. I've sat there for half an hour trying to get the camera where I want to check that a 'slice' operation was aligned right, something I can do with my off-hand on the keyboard in great detail in GtkRadiant while manipulating brushes.
At this point, we have 3 options.
1) We skip going for 2.1, and re-texture the whole map and likely migrate all of us to Radiant.
2) I don't help with the clipping, and can't do anything further with the map without causing more harm than good, and we lose whatever work I've put in so far since being handed the map for clipping and texture-adjustment.
3) I export whatever is requested, and someone else imports it into Hammer with the original Nancy .rmf file.
I'm guessing we're not going with #1, as it's asking too much of you both, or at least you'll think so, Lazer.
If I'm out say so, I'll stop monitoring this thread and leave you two in peace. I don't see how the work I've done so far can be feasably exported, like the texture minimalization I've been doing, or anything beyond the most basic of the vent layouts, so I don't see how #3 would save us any time over #1, and #2 also ends up taking forever because all the work I've done so far has to be thrown out the window, effectively, as you can't 'skulk-clip' only one part of the map.
And no, I'm not avoiding the thread, I've just been busy with Real Life this week, things like buying groceries, and paying rent. =-.-=
I'll export all my skulk-clipping later today, I'm getting ready to head out to work for an hour or four today, so expect a post with the skulk-clipping in the e-mail, and I'll get the heck out of everyones way since there's nothing more I can do here.
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U know that hammer has the ability to fly round the map just like radiant? (press z while on the 3d window)
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U know that hammer has the ability to fly round the map just like radiant? (press z while on the 3d window) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah Wolf, he's right, though on my setup you just hold the left mouse button on the screen and fly around with "WASD" keys.
Oh and we're not "switching" to Radiant, WWs has been using Radiant all along.
~ DarkATi
Sorry Nerd, QuArK won't run on my computer. OpenGL is bugged due to my old GFX Card. Anyway VHE is what I grew up mapping in, not just for HL, but period. I like it's oddities and have grown to embrace them.
~ DarkATi
No, it's OK, you just didn't know. It does "SuX0rxz" that WWs uses Radiant and we use VHE but there isn't much we can do about it really. We may have to pass up Official 2.1 Inclusion and just get it done right on our own time, no deadlines.
~ DarkATi
I'll export all my skulk-clipping later today, I'm getting ready to head out to work for an hour or four today, so expect a post with the skulk-clipping in the e-mail, and I'll get the heck out of everyones way since there's nothing more I can do here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather not see anybody's work go to waste -- how about this for a solution:
Write a quick map merging tool with the following special properites:
<ul><li>new brushes are imported in their entirety<li>brushes not in the imported version are dropped from the merge<li>texture alignment information for brushes from the previous (Hammer) build is preserved--the Radiant build doesn't overwrite the alignment numbers<li>texture name information is imported (so that the 128x128 replacements are used, BEVEL clips are inserted, redundant textures are dropped)<li>texture names can be flagged to have their scale doubled automatically when they are imported (so that the 128x128 textures scale to match the 256x256 textures they replace). Rescaling could be automated by reading texture sizes in from the WADs, but that's more work.<li>A list of brush numbers with rescaled flags is printed out so that a human can double check the post-scale alignment. </ul>
Using the system above, you can import WW's work and don't have to worry about texture alignments going bad when the brushes are originally done in Hammer and cross ported. It'll take some work to write, but probably less than WW has put into the clipping from what I understand; it's a relatively simple operation to parse each entity, collect the brushes, compare them, and output them back into a file; the operation would be trival if Radiant preserves brush ordering, which would be the first thing I'd check.
Just my 2 cents.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when exactly did the team become aware that you were using radient wolfwings? might have been a point of importance earlier on<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody on the team (WW included) knew that Radiant's texture handling was incompatible with Hammer's version of the map format when the project started.