1.04 lerk was similar. But Fade is more specialised and is alot harder to use. In 1.04 good lerks were as good if not better than 1.0 fades but took less skill. I mean umbra blocked 6/7! bullets it was insane.
<!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Sep 17 2003, 04:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Sep 17 2003, 04:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Sep 16 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Sep 16 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> b/c yeah, you can stack, it just takes a lot more effort and isn't faster at all <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stacking meta and regen works fine, the principle is quite simple:
Regen ticks on a timer, every second it will tick a certain amount of health. For some reason, using metabolize will reset this timer, so whenever you use meta, regen will not tick again untill 1 second after the meta was used. All you have to do, is use meta as quickly as you can after the regen ticks. The timing does not have to be perfect at all, however the closer you get to metabolizing exactly on the regen tick, the better the results. If you meta exactly as regen ticks, regen will then tick again 1 second later, and you will get the benefit of metabolize ontop of regen without slowing down regen at all.
You don't have to time it exactly of course, you just have to get the meta as soon after the regen tick as you can. If you're anywhere close, then you will be regenerating health faster than you could with just metabolize. You will not be 'ticking' as frequently as you would be when just using meta, however you will be healing 40hp a time, it works out quite a bit faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I already used it a bunch. my first fade was a regen fade.
The ticks are abysmally slow and you drag meta down with it.
The only saving grace is if regen heals a lot with each tick.
I don't know... probably only longer than any of those if he/she keeps his/her unproductive mouth shut for a week (thus also exceeding both of the others).
fades are great except vs HA, as hit and run is the only way, and by the time you blink away, heal, and blink back the HA you attacked has been med-ed and welded >.<
actually in a scrim I was playing in they were building a tf outside waste and I spored them as lerk repeatedly - this meant the comm spent about a hundred res on medpacks, and I still got about three of them, the rest were decked by an onos. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The fade is an early-game juggernaut. It takes out electrified nodes, kills groups of marines, gives marine outposts a run for their money, slices, dices, and just generally devestates the commander's hard work. Get one, and keep him alive; he's your team's most valuable asset.
Then comes the mid-game... If the fade(s) did a good job early, the marines are already on their last legs, and the course of the game is determined. If not though, fades become a joke. In the face of well-teched marines with HMG's and possibly JP's/HA, the fade is useless. Attacking outposts is almost suicide if they are well-turreted or have even one baseguard. Go gorge, lerk, or onos; these are the real stars of mid-game, with their stomps, horns, umbras, and bile bombs.
Late game (or rather, <i>endgame</i>) the fade gets a niche again through acid rocket. He can kill JP marines more effectively than any other class, and plays an important role in breaking the oft-lengthy MS standoffs. He'll still die without his base breaking buddies, though.
In short, the fade is fantastic in the start, totally sucks in the middle, and then becomes valuable again in the end. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
I feel the main problem is the fade's last 2 weapons really =/
sure some people use metabolise but it's a very specific 'weapon' for a very specific playing style. A lot of people don't use it and rely on regen instead which means for a lot of users (experienced or otherwise) it isn't a heck of a lot of use. Look at the rest and they have weapons for all kinds of playing styles but ones that can be equally integrated by all with ease.
Meta? it requires you to...
a) be hurt b) have time and energy to use it before regen does the job for you c) not want to be attacking anything at the time
it's use would be invaluable if it weren't for the fact a lot of people still take regen and that in the majority of games you'll often find a dc nearby when you need a quick fix.
Let's look at the rest of the weaps for example;
<b>blink/charge/fly(innate lerk ability)/leap</b> these allow you to manouver faster and better, in most cases they don't do damage or don't really cause enough to worth considering as an attack but they're mainly used for getting about quicker.
<b>slash/bite/spines/spores/spit/gore/devour</b> These don't need much description; despite their differences they're all basic attacks that come in at 1 hive and provide you with your basic harm-causing abilities =3
<b>umbra/primal scream/stomp/web</b> These all cause an effect, in essense they're support attacks that somehow hinder the enemy or boost your allies to help your team and become incredibly useful in any stage of the game ^^
so what about bilebomb, acid rocket and meta? Bilebomb is an anti building weapon; as far as things go it's the closest thing the aliens have to a siege barring the onos. Acid Rocket? A 3rd hive weapon that's basically an enhanced spit with splash damage =/ at 3rd hive shouldn't we be getting something a little more constructive? something with the special bolstering effects of umbra/scream or the hindering nuances of stomp/web? As it is all acid rocket is good for is trying to draw some of the less intelligent marines out of the base to attack you or as a weapon for people who haven't mastered blink-slashing yet but want to play fade.
Meta? It's one of the only 'attacks' in the game that doesn't help anyone else, doesn't increase your speed/mobility nor cause the marines any discomfort in itself and it does something that you can get an upgrade to do and do better.
blink and slash are great against LA marines because it's only 2-4 hits depending on armour level and gives you a great amount of manouverability but by the time they come into the game both meta and acid rocket could be better replaced by something altogether more useful or effective -.-
Meta's handy in games where you NEED Cara. The fade is a combat unit but is still relatively easy to kill. Hence, carapace. Combined with adren, and you can meta your brains out when not attacking.
Against teched or competent marine teams, lerks can just hide, skulks can use silence and wallhugging, onos can do whatever it likes, gorge hides, and the fade....... would pick carapace.
Yes, meta is a solo weapon, but imho thats to promote the fade's solo lifestyle. Its meant to be a hit n run scout assassin - not a team player. Acid rocket is a pretty good attack, useful at third hive for sniping out stalemates.
Each alien has its own quirks. The lerk for example has mostly support attacks, and the gorge is the builder - but the fade is meant to be the loner attack alien - thus it needs to be more selfreliant. Which is what meta allows, without forcing the fade into choosing regen.
ok, I went and tried out the carpace/meta combo for a whole match (I mixed it up on the mc side with celerity, silence and adren at random) as it turns out you pretty much get energy back almost at the same rate as meta takes it away each tick so adren wasn't really necessary unless I was trying to use acid rockets (which I still think are a waste of time against anything bar jpers or acting as a lure). The good thing is, I spent almost an hour without being killed once where I probably would've dropped dead with regen (one of those long gruelling matches -.- )... the down-side is I spent a LOT of time out of the action if they got lucky and I took a serious bunch of hits, almost double to triple what I would with regen.
It definitely ups your survival rate but the downtime is horrendous... maybe they should make meta heal 30 a tick or something instead of a measly 20? =s
Downtime IS horrendous, but imho I'd rather spend a few seconds metaing like mad as opposed to dying, getting kicked back to hive, respawning, and re-evolving.
The other thing is that I seem to take more hits with cara, more than i can with regen. Tho I haven't tried that out scientifically.
You all just have to learn how to fade jump.... which is essentially jumping, lookig diagonally and flying. You dont hold onto blink, you just tap it at the tip of your jump and you are sent rocketing. Using this tequnique in conjunction with silence is exceptionally effective.
regen works better if they are hitting you every now and then but if they're lucky and land a couple of shots on you in quick succession then you're toast without cara =s
lol stung, I <b>do</b> do that... all the time and with silence to boot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> but you'll get hit eventually and that's when it's time to choose carpace/meta or regen <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was too lazy to read the 10 pages of this thread so i'll just go ahead and post my opinion, although it may have been stated already. Now first of all, I'm not talking about public servers. In clan matches, fades are a hell of a lot harded to kill than onos, simply due to the fact that a skilled fade blinks around like crazy, stopping to slash once or twice then going into the blink frenzy again. Fades with no adrenaline aren't that annoying, for they cant do this for a long time, but still, they become a real thorn in your TSA armor <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Sep 28 2003, 07:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Sep 28 2003, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You all just have to learn how to fade jump.... which is essentially jumping, lookig diagonally and flying. You dont hold onto blink, you just tap it at the tip of your jump and you are sent rocketing. Using this tequnique in conjunction with silence is exceptionally effective. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's how those guys bounce around indefinately! I've been trying to figure out what they were doing. So the game physics is launching the fade at the beginning of the jump by using an instant of blink. No wonder some of those Fades seem near invulnerable.
All the effort to get rid of "bunnyhopping" only to give the Fade a bunnyhopping extreme weapon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Was this actually intended by the Dev's? Shouldn't the fade stop blinking as soon as he releases the button, thereby dropping him out of mid-air? I just know that guys that have perfected this technique are near next to impossible to shoot.
Eh, by the way, I still must say I like regen better, I just try not to let them get lucky :-p I like stacking it with Metabolize, which you can get good at with just a little practice.
Please please PLEASE read the entire thread...Most of these questions were already answered on page three...To be more specific, they were answered by me. ...Remember?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, from the looks of it, it looks like most of you don't know how to blink properly. Here's how you do it. 1) Pull blink out. 2) Look up at a 45 degree angle 3) Jump 4) While in the air, tap your blink button 5) Watch yourself fly across the entire room while only using one tap of blink.
Now, using this method the way I found useful to fade and not die is this. First, you will want to wait for two hives (so you can get metabolize and carapace if you didn't have it already.) Then, blink around the map until you find no more then three marines in a group. Use the above method to blink around the room, laughing as they expend their ammo on a fade going faster then a celeritized skulk. Then, while in the air look down on someone, blink, and swoop in REAL fast while switching out the claws. After all that, enjoy a hard earned three marine dinner. Yum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fades have a really screwed up hit box arrangment that u NEED to take advantage of. the hit boxes go from ur feet to ur stomach basically. nublar rines will shoot for ur head or chest and do 0 dmg. i took at 5 ha hmg/shottys with my lone fade simply cause they shot for my chest and did 0 dmg. morale is to crouch alot cuase it makes ur legs harder to hit <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Crouching makes you a smaller box thats easier to focus on though. Sure its hard to hit when you're blinking, but if you're crouched when you land, you're dead if the marine is pointing at you.
I agree, they need to change something about the fade, its the only medium costing alien unit that is decently balanced in all combat areas except for the fact that you need 3 hives to have any kind of ranged attack, spending 50 res for something that can't have a ranged attack unless you have ALL your hives is somewhat wasteful in my opinion.
hmm... fades being under used? yeah, i think thats true. fades may seem like they're not worth the rez, but they're actually a really good purchase in the hands of experienced faders. the xtra health and armor boost makes you a tank compared to the skulk. sure, they do the same amount of damage as skulks, but they're essential in drawing enemy fire and taking down small turret farms. fades can be somewhat weak without any upgrades, but once there are a few upg chambers, they become exponentially more effective and very much so worth it. i kind of think fades need to cost more sometimes, as fade rushes are very deadly.
Comments
Stacking meta and regen works fine, the principle is quite simple:
Regen ticks on a timer, every second it will tick a certain amount of health. For some reason, using metabolize will reset this timer, so whenever you use meta, regen will not tick again untill 1 second after the meta was used. All you have to do, is use meta as quickly as you can after the regen ticks. The timing does not have to be perfect at all, however the closer you get to metabolizing exactly on the regen tick, the better the results. If you meta exactly as regen ticks, regen will then tick again 1 second later, and you will get the benefit of metabolize ontop of regen without slowing down regen at all.
You don't have to time it exactly of course, you just have to get the meta as soon after the regen tick as you can. If you're anywhere close, then you will be regenerating health faster than you could with just metabolize. You will not be 'ticking' as frequently as you would be when just using meta, however you will be healing 40hp a time, it works out quite a bit faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I already used it a bunch. my first fade was a regen fade.
The ticks are abysmally slow and you drag meta down with it.
The only saving grace is if regen heals a lot with each tick.
GG newbies.
How long will issyl last on the forums?
10/1 - Longer than 1 week
5 /1 - Longer than he deserves
3 /1 - Longer than the average length of his posts
Then comes the mid-game... If the fade(s) did a good job early, the marines are already on their last legs, and the course of the game is determined. If not though, fades become a joke. In the face of well-teched marines with HMG's and possibly JP's/HA, the fade is useless. Attacking outposts is almost suicide if they are well-turreted or have even one baseguard. Go gorge, lerk, or onos; these are the real stars of mid-game, with their stomps, horns, umbras, and bile bombs.
Late game (or rather, <i>endgame</i>) the fade gets a niche again through acid rocket. He can kill JP marines more effectively than any other class, and plays an important role in breaking the oft-lengthy MS standoffs. He'll still die without his base breaking buddies, though.
In short, the fade is fantastic in the start, totally sucks in the middle, and then becomes valuable again in the end. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
sure some people use metabolise but it's a very specific 'weapon' for a very specific playing style. A lot of people don't use it and rely on regen instead which means for a lot of users (experienced or otherwise) it isn't a heck of a lot of use.
Look at the rest and they have weapons for all kinds of playing styles but ones that can be equally integrated by all with ease.
Meta? it requires you to...
a) be hurt
b) have time and energy to use it before regen does the job for you
c) not want to be attacking anything at the time
it's use would be invaluable if it weren't for the fact a lot of people still take regen and that in the majority of games you'll often find a dc nearby when you need a quick fix.
Let's look at the rest of the weaps for example;
<b>blink/charge/fly(innate lerk ability)/leap</b>
these allow you to manouver faster and better, in most cases they don't do damage or don't really cause enough to worth considering as an attack but they're mainly used for getting about quicker.
<b>slash/bite/spines/spores/spit/gore/devour</b>
These don't need much description; despite their differences they're all basic attacks that come in at 1 hive and provide you with your basic harm-causing abilities =3
<b>umbra/primal scream/stomp/web</b>
These all cause an effect, in essense they're support attacks that somehow hinder the enemy or boost your allies to help your team and become incredibly useful in any stage of the game ^^
so what about bilebomb, acid rocket and meta?
Bilebomb is an anti building weapon; as far as things go it's the closest thing the aliens have to a siege barring the onos.
Acid Rocket? A 3rd hive weapon that's basically an enhanced spit with splash damage =/
at 3rd hive shouldn't we be getting something a little more constructive? something with the special bolstering effects of umbra/scream or the hindering nuances of stomp/web? As it is all acid rocket is good for is trying to draw some of the less intelligent marines out of the base to attack you or as a weapon for people who haven't mastered blink-slashing yet but want to play fade.
Meta? It's one of the only 'attacks' in the game that doesn't help anyone else, doesn't increase your speed/mobility nor cause the marines any discomfort in itself and it does something that you can get an upgrade to do and do better.
blink and slash are great against LA marines because it's only 2-4 hits depending on armour level and gives you a great amount of manouverability but by the time they come into the game both meta and acid rocket could be better replaced by something altogether more useful or effective -.-
Against teched or competent marine teams, lerks can just hide, skulks can use silence and wallhugging, onos can do whatever it likes, gorge hides, and the fade....... would pick carapace.
Yes, meta is a solo weapon, but imho thats to promote the fade's solo lifestyle. Its meant to be a hit n run scout assassin - not a team player. Acid rocket is a pretty good attack, useful at third hive for sniping out stalemates.
Each alien has its own quirks. The lerk for example has mostly support attacks, and the gorge is the builder - but the fade is meant to be the loner attack alien - thus it needs to be more selfreliant. Which is what meta allows, without forcing the fade into choosing regen.
Yes.
as it turns out you pretty much get energy back almost at the same rate as meta takes it away each tick so adren wasn't really necessary unless I was trying to use acid rockets (which I still think are a waste of time against anything bar jpers or acting as a lure).
The good thing is, I spent almost an hour without being killed once where I probably would've dropped dead with regen (one of those long gruelling matches -.- )... the down-side is I spent a LOT of time out of the action if they got lucky and I took a serious bunch of hits, almost double to triple what I would with regen.
It definitely ups your survival rate but the downtime is horrendous... maybe they should make meta heal 30 a tick or something instead of a measly 20? =s
If cara slows down the fade (it did, but haven't played recently) you may want to take cel or silence rather than adren
but i prefer adren/redemp
The other thing is that I seem to take more hits with cara, more than i can with regen. Tho I haven't tried that out scientifically.
lol stung, I <b>do</b> do that... all the time and with silence to boot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
but you'll get hit eventually and that's when it's time to choose carpace/meta or regen <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's how those guys bounce around indefinately! I've been trying to figure out what they were doing. So the game physics is launching the fade at the beginning of the jump by using an instant of blink. No wonder some of those Fades seem near invulnerable.
All the effort to get rid of "bunnyhopping" only to give the Fade a bunnyhopping extreme weapon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Was this actually intended by the Dev's? Shouldn't the fade stop blinking as soon as he releases the button, thereby dropping him out of mid-air? I just know that guys that have perfected this technique are near next to impossible to shoot.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, from the looks of it, it looks like most of you don't know how to blink properly. Here's how you do it.
1) Pull blink out.
2) Look up at a 45 degree angle
3) Jump
4) While in the air, tap your blink button
5) Watch yourself fly across the entire room while only using one tap of blink.
Now, using this method the way I found useful to fade and not die is this. First, you will want to wait for two hives (so you can get metabolize and carapace if you didn't have it already.) Then, blink around the map until you find no more then three marines in a group. Use the above method to blink around the room, laughing as they expend their ammo on a fade going faster then a celeritized skulk. Then, while in the air look down on someone, blink, and swoop in REAL fast while switching out the claws. After all that, enjoy a hard earned three marine dinner. Yum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->